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The Fake Lonnie Finch · January 23, 2012

Edited January 16, 2013 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

Got5onIt · January 24, 2012

I saw the same comments and couldn't believe the one made by the Teflon Todd apologist. Dodge was the worst thing to ever happen to NT football the last decade, period. He failed to coach, improve, & develop most of the recruits brought to Denton. How many kids played out their eligibility that were his recruits????

Green P1 · January 24, 2012

Look how many succesful seasons it took our men's basketball recruiting to explode. We can only hope football follows that pattern... it won't be quick.

Mean Green Matt · January 24, 2012

Saying all of this literally makes me want to throw up, but here it goes:

Why are we allowed to make the excuse that it is going to take awhile when WKU (who was pathetic before this year), Lafayette (who was mediocre for years as well before this year), ASU (who may have the best class of all of them), and FIU (who has 2 winning seasons in school history, but almost 20 3* recruits) are all blowing us out of the water, at least on paper.

Now, I do not think this class is bad, in fact it has some good players with a few spots to go, but I do not see a reason why it should be accepted as just our situation that we are losing recruits to lesser schools than other SBC schools are stealing recruits away from. I may get bombarded with -1's, but I think it is a legitimate statement. I'm not cricizing our recruits, just saying that there should be no excuses anymore...our investment in facilities (that are more than top notch), and the investment in coaching (which is significant), as well as the improving university image should offset the rest.

Got5onIt · January 24, 2012

Saying all of this literally makes me want to throw up, but here it goes:

Why are we allowed to make the excuse that it is going to take awhile when WKU (who was pathetic before this year), Lafayette (who was mediocre for years as well before this year), ASU (who may have the best class of all of them), and FIU (who has 2 winning seasons in school history, but almost 20 3* recruits) are all blowing us out of the water, at least on paper.

Now, I do not think this class is bad, in fact it has some good players with a few spots to go, but I do not see a reason why it should be accepted as just our situation that we are losing recruits to lesser schools than other SBC schools are stealing recruits away from. I may get bombarded with -1's, but I think it is a legitimate statement. I'm not cricizing our recruits, just saying that there should be no excuses anymore...our investment in facilities (that are more than top notch), and the investment in coaching (which is significant), as well as the improving university image should offset the rest.

Not posting a winning record in damn near a decade hurts recruiting a lot more than you think. Look at the records of the programs that have stolen recruits from NT. Kids want to win, period. Yeah NT's invested a ton into facilities & coaching recently. Key word, recently. Do you think it's a coincidence Tony Mitchell signed with NT? It sure as hell isn't, IMO. Two NCAA tourney visits, a streak of 20 win seasons, and the stability of a coach with tenure at NT got him here. Apply that to football and the better recruits will come.

KRAM1 · January 24, 2012

Just want to remind everyone that signing day is Feb. 1st. Until the recruits sign or do not sign I think it is a tad early to start "praising or criticizing" this year's class. Fun to "compare", fun to speculate, fun to get happy and sad, but "it ain't done until it's done" and until then it's all speculation. I don't think one should polish the trophy or moan and cry until all is said and done. Even then, it will be awhile until anyone knows for certain if that 4-Star recruit SMU stole is actually a college level talent or not...or that 3-star that UNT signed after some 4-star backed out...or even that walk-on (Delgado for one) that surprises everyone.

We have all seen it time and time again...that can't miss 5-star just can't adjust to college and the college game, that 2-star adds 20 pounds and becomes a monster LB, etc., etc. Patience grasshopper, patience.

Green Mean · January 24, 2012

If you want people to come then win. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

KRAM1 · January 24, 2012

If you want people to come then win. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

No question...winning helps a lot...but ask SMU if that's the only thing. Agree with the "win and they will come" attitude, but it doesn't seem to work for everyone, so let's not get complacent in our work to drive attendance any way possible.

greenminer · January 24, 2012

No question...winning helps a lot...but ask SMU if that's the only thing. Agree with the "win and they will come" attitude, but it doesn't seem to work for everyone, so let's not get complacent in our work to drive attendance any way possible.

It may not be the only thing, but everything else seems kinda baseless without it.

SilverEagle · January 24, 2012

It may not be the only thing, but everything else seems kinda baseless without it.

Winning gets (almost) everyone's attention and brings the fence setters and the "long-suffering-from-years-of-watching-losing-seasons-and-can't-take-it-anymore" students/alumni. BUT what keeps them coming back, even in the bad times?

ATMOSPHERE (tailgating) and UNIQUE SCHOOL PAGEANTRY. Give them not only the enjoyment of winning, but a feeling that they are TRULY PART OF THE NORTH TEXAS EXPERIENCE. It starts with tailgating, but it really grabs em' with THIS......

Miner, you of all people should understand this.

SilverEagle · January 24, 2012

Here is an EXCELLENT promo from LSU that summarizes exactly what I'm talking about. Enjoy....

Win or lose, who doesn't want to be part of, or close to, something like this?

Edited January 24, 2012 by SilverEagle

greenminer · January 24, 2012

You're linking to some of the winning-est programs in college football history...

SilverEagle · January 24, 2012

You're linking to some of the winning-est programs in college football history...

....and you point is?

greenminer · January 24, 2012

....and you point is?

That I am not sure if you are disproving or disagreeing with what I say. My contention is that you can have great pageantry and environments, but winning is the foundation for it.

If you want to disagree you're welcome to, but don't use OSU, Wisconsin, LSU and Michigan as the basis for that argument.

UNT 90 Grad · January 24, 2012

Here is an EXCELLENT promo from LSU that summarizes exactly what I'm talking about. Enjoy....

That was a promo for their band. Is taht exactly what you are talking about? :blink:

MeanGreenTexan · January 24, 2012

....and you point is?

What is your point Silver?

If the band/dancers/cheerleaders/talons/etc... put on a fantastic show, then it is more important to the gameday atmosphere than the football team winning?

BUT what keeps them coming back, even in the bad times?

There are certainly going to be bandwaggon fans. Even the great teams that you are referencing have down years and bandwaggon fans jump off (probably even moreso than any bandwaggon fans UNT may have). There's no way a band that exudes pageantry brings back bandwaggon fans. They'll be on board during the good times (winning) and will not show during the bad times (losing). That's just the way it is. Win and they will show up. Lose and they wont. Simple as that.

Now, win consistently for a LONG TIME and create history as LSU/OSU/Wisconsin/Michigan have, then the bandwaggon fans become core fans and the base will be so large that the bandwaggon fans will not affect the stadium attendance because the core fanbase will be so large that the bandwaggon fans won't matter.

The band/dancers/cheerleaders/talons/etc..., as great as they can be, have no bearing on this at all IMO (unless you're a music major or something).

SilverEagle · January 24, 2012

That I am not sure if you are disproving or disagreeing with what I say. My contention is that you can have great pageantry and environments, but winning is the foundation for it.

If you want to disagree you're welcome to, but don't use OSU, Wisconsin, LSU and Michigan as the basis for that argument.

I use those as examples because I've always believed that we were just as good as anyone else. To believe otherwise sets us up for very low expectations.....which our current pageantry(?) reflects. Did we become the most recognized jazz program in the nation because we didn't think we were as good as those other schools that competed every year? The Lab Band went up to Notre Dame back in 1960 and knocked their socks off.....

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth61030/m1/136/?q=lab%20band%20notre%20dame%20contest

They didn't win those awards because they thought the "big schools" had an exclusive on that national jazz contest.

We can celebrate our school with great pageantry that is just as good as any of the schools that I've linked. Winning makes it bigger and grander, but it has to start on it's own.......it's not the responsibility of the football team.

Edited January 24, 2012 by SilverEagle

SilverEagle · January 24, 2012

That was a promo for their band. Is taht exactly what you are talking about?

What I'm talking about is that the LSU band is promoting GAME TIME PAGEANTRY, which they are the core of (and well they SHOULD BE), as much as themselves.

untjim1995 · January 24, 2012

I use those as examples because I've always believed that we were just as good as anyone else. To believe otherwise sets us up for very low expectations.....which our current pageantry(?) reflects. Did we become the most recognized jazz program in the nation because we didn't think we were as good as those other schools that competed every year? The Lab Band went up to Notre Dame back in 1960 and knocked their socks off.....

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth61030/m1/136/?q=lab%20band%20notre%20dame%20contest

They didn't win those awards because they thought the "big schools" had an exclusive on that national jazz contest.

We can celebrate our school with great pageantry that is just as good as any of the schools that I've linked. Winning makes it bigger and grander, but it has to start on it's own.......it's not the responsibility of the football team.

Great music tradition and pageantry will not get people to come watch UNT play Louisiana-Monroe. If it did, we would have great crowds all of these years. It is impossible to get anyone outside of the 5000 faithful fans that we now seem to have to ever get excited about those schools.

Recruiting will always be a tough sell here if we are bound to the SBC. There are just too many other schools with more tradition and support to beat consistently. SMU, Tulsa, Rice, and La Tech all have winning traditions and reputations of success to help with their recruiting pitch. Obviously, TCU and Baylor have the big AQ advantage in the name conference of this state. North Texas has a lot to offer, but I think its tough to beat out these other schools if it just comes down to the football program by itself. If its degree, location, women, or something else, then we can compete all day. Its just now that we can even bring up our football stadium to a recruit without it turning into a disaster. But when it comes to conference affiliation, overall scheduling, lack of success, and the complete lack of attention from media and fans for a school of our size and in its location, we don't stand up very well, IMHO.

SilverEagle · January 24, 2012

Great music tradition and pageantry will not get people to come watch UNT play Louisiana-Monroe. If it did, we would have great crowds all of these years. It is impossible to get anyone outside of the 5000 faithful fans that we now seem to have to ever get excited about those schools.

I'm not talking about selling Monroe. I'm talking about selling/celebrating US.

THAT is what game day pageantry is all about.

Edited January 24, 2012 by SilverEagle

Green Mean · January 24, 2012

I use those as examples because I've always believed that we were just as good as anyone else. To believe otherwise sets us up for very low expectations.....which our current pageantry(?) reflects. Did we become the most recognized jazz program in the nation because we didn't think we were as good as those other schools that competed every year? The Lab Band went up to Notre Dame back in 1960 and knocked their socks off.....

http://texashistory....0dame%20contest

They didn't win those awards because they thought the "big schools" had an exclusive on that national jazz contest.

We can celebrate our school with great pageantry that is just as good as any of the schools that I've linked. Winning makes it bigger and grander, but it has to start on it's own.......it's not the responsibility of the football team.

People don't go to games to see bands and pageantry. Just win.

untjim1995 · January 24, 2012

SilverEagle · January 25, 2012

People don't go to games to see bands and pageantry. Just win.

Well, actually people always list the "pageantry" and the connection to their school, as the reason that they like College FB over Pro Football.

greenminer · January 25, 2012

We have many fans here very vocal about their opinion that have been around 3x as long as I have. But the excuses today are not the same as they were 50 years ago. UNT blows everyone away with jazz because Gene Hall create a jazz curriculum that no one even had at the time of creation. It was not an issue of us accepting nothing less than what others had: it was simply Hall providing a supply for everyone's need. We were the first to step into the jazz market.

It is 2012. Everyone already has football. Everyone has their own ideas about how it should be run.

Denton has seen marching bands, good ones and bad, crappy administration, better adminstration, great administration, new stadiums and 30 different branding efforts including 20 different shades of green. My humble opinion is all these things are vital - and opinions are important - but Denton needs a winner right now because it is the one thing many generations have not witnessed for more than 3 consecutive years.

As a student within the last 15 years, I've seen and witnessed my friends' reactions to attempts to enhance "pageantry" and environment (stadium).

"Why the eff should we be paying for a football stadium when the football team won 4 games in 3 years?"

"Athletics is a waste. We haven't won anything consistently in decades."

"Man, I'd love to hang out and tailgate, but the football team is eff'n terrible."

....

I didn't hear anything like, "Why the eff should we be paying for a football stadium when the GB can't play the original fight song?," or "Athletics will be worth my time when they appreciate the value of marching One O'Clock members."

This is about Denton being shown a nice, beautiful looking cake (football) for ten years, when in fact the bread has been disgusting once you get past the icing. Who wants to attend that party? Who wants to keep coming back to that?

Let me reiterate: Pageantry and tradition are ABSOLUTELY critical and a part of the big picture. You still want that awesome icing on the cake. The nice whiskey for their Coke. But we are not lacking that. We are lacking a tradition of WINNING.

ESPN did a wonderful piece years ago (can't find it right now) about how the big powers (i.e. OU/OSU, etc) got to where they are. They won for DECADES. 20+ years. That was the argument. Not fight song arrangements. Not elite bands. WINNING.

You want this thing (us) to explode? Start winning big, and start winning long.

I think Boise State is on the verge of the multiple-decade point. They seem to be turning a corner.

Edited January 25, 2012 by greenminer

greenminer · January 25, 2012

Well, actually people always list the "pageantry" and the connection to their school, as the reason that they like College FB over Pro Football.

Well, actually my UNT-grad NFL fan friends cite "UNT sucking b@11s" as the reason for their pro allegiance.

I've never seen such an amazing display of football-crazed fandom go hand-in-hand with UNT football ignorance. It is really almost to the point of impressive: like you almost want to applaud them.

Want to know the entire 2-deep, including special teams, of the GMen? How about their nickel package specifics? I've got your men. But ask them anything beyond who our head coach is, and you'll get glazed eyes. And apathy.

Edited January 25, 2012 by greenminer