Breaking news -- Chris Jones, Jordan Williams ineligible

All About UNT · January 17, 2012

Will we lose scholarships for this? Like ULM.

That poses an interesting question and honestly.... I don't even want to know what I would think about the AD and staff if something like that occurs here at NT.

Green P1 · January 17, 2012

I'm not giving JJ or the rest of the staff a pass... but I had classes with much less heralded scholarship athletes and I saw how easy they had it. The only way these kids could fail is by not caring enough to attend class. If you receive that kind of assistance and can't manage to pass your classes... that's all on you.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Green P1

All About UNT · January 17, 2012

Now that the news has broken I would appreciate the School's Official statement on the issue.

Mean Green Matt · January 17, 2012

That poses an interesting question and honestly.... I don't even want to know what I would think about the AD and staff if something like that occurs here at NT.

I'm not sure my feelings would be any different than they are right now when TWO of our star players do not make grades. If there was not an entire department of full time staffers and muiltiple student tutors, maybe, just maybe, I would put this all on Chris and Jordan. What makes me really uneasy is the thought that this whole situation caught the athletic department off guard.

KoldBeer · January 17, 2012

This sucks. The team would have known weeks ago. They made the decision to play them and try to get a few more wins. They don't become ineligible until the semester starts. I don't have any issue with this. Jones is paid to win games. That's what he did.

It's ultimately on the players, but I can't believe the athletic department/basketball let them get into this position. They should have known their grades were an issue and had forced tutoring/academic help/etc. If the players didn't respond, I'm surprised Jones didn't sit them during first semester to send a message.

It's going to make the rest of the year a challenge and we can only hope the players and team learn from this.

MeanGreenTexan · January 18, 2012

Well, just like we shouldn't bash the kids for not making their grades, we shouldn't bash the AD for not making the guys' grades. Right? :unsure:

Just how short are we now? Holmen banged up, Hogans out for the forseable future, Robinson still on the mend, and now we lose these two...

We're not going to replace Jones' production, but it's Trey's time to shine, and Alzee is a capable combo guard, as is Walton.

We don't really have that athletic swingman to replace Williams, but I suppose it opens up more PT for Franklin and Niko.

We really need to get our injured guys healthy ASAP!

Mean Green Matt · January 18, 2012

Well, just like we shouldn't bash the kids for not making their grades, we shouldn't bash the AD

Hmm...18-year old kids that do not get paid, or older men and women who make a generous salary...seems like the same thing to me.

Plus, I do not think anyone is bashing them. The questions being asked are reasonable.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Mean Green Matt

untbowler · January 18, 2012

wow so no one is blame for this debacle, really. How hard is it to maintain a 1.8 GPa when you have advisers at your fingertips. Why was JJ and staff not checking on these guys. For crying out loud we used to require quarterly reports from professors for progress. I do not give a damn about JJ's record all this does is tarnish it and shows he will do anything to win games. These guys should have been sat down as soon as grades were posted.

I am sorry but Jones and Williams deserve transfere a bit of blame, but sounds like Dodge is not the only one with Teflon now days

Andrew · January 18, 2012

So... do Jones, Williams and Mitchel return to UNT next year? Or are they all gone....

Mean Green Matt · January 18, 2012

I think this is frustrating because it has happened right when we were building up steam...not just for the basketball season, but for the basketball program as a whole. I don't see how we do not lose scholarships for this, but am not an expert on how the NCAA decides on such things. Unfortunatly, for the casual fans, this takes a lot of the steam out of the season. Not sure how the students react, but it probably won't be good either.

I just hope this does not discourage the remaining players. They have a chance to step up and really be legendary.

UNT90 · January 18, 2012

If you receive that kind of assistance and can't manage to pass your classes... that's all on you.

This x 1000.

I hope Jones and Williams aren't blaming their academic advisers. That would signal a very low chance of them ever becoming eligible again.

What I don't understand is JJ continuing to give Chris Jones the majority of minutes at point guard. Wouldn't you want to get Norris prepared to play out the rest of your conference season and tournament? If you are shifting Alzee over to point (which I think is the best option), wouldn't you want to give him minutes there to ease the transition? Were they running Chris through a mini semester at Christmas break just hoping to get him eligible?

Just incredibly bad planning if you knew this was coming for the past 4 weeks. Trying to pile up the wins while you still can?

This team just got a lot more shallow. Starters are Alzee at the point, Walton at the 2, Franklin at the 3, Niko (??) at the 4, and TM at the 5. Just a guess. Primary reserves being Holman (whenever he gets healthy), Forrest, and Edwards (2 guys who haven't contributed much all year), and Norris (10 minutes max at the point).

Nine guys. Yes, I know I am leaving out Tyler, but if you are counting on walk-ons to contribute meaningful minutes, your season is over. Thats just a fact.

So, with Holman still out, we are down to 8 healthy, eligible bodies. Again.

I'm loving 9-9 in conference right now.

Mean Green Matt · January 18, 2012

So... do Jones, Williams and Mitchel return to UNT next year? Or are they all gone....

:blowup:

Mean Green Matt · January 18, 2012

Of course Mike Doocy mentions this on Fox 4 Sports...F.M.L.

Andrew · January 18, 2012

Its an honest question because I have heard an answer from well lets just say somewhere haha. I have no idea what to believe but what do you guys think?

Mean Green Matt · January 18, 2012

Its an honest question because I have heard an answer from well lets just say somewhere haha. I have no idea what to believe but what do you guys think?

I have no doubt its an honest question, but even thinking about that makes my head want to explode.

MDH · January 18, 2012

This just ruined my day week month year. Let's go Tony, Roger, and Alzee!

UNT90 · January 18, 2012

Of course Mike Doocy mentions this on Fox 4 Sports...F.M.L.

Maybe we should send him emails thanking him for talking UNT sports...

MeanMag · January 18, 2012

While there is certainly something to be said for personal responsibility, I think much of the blame falls on the epic fail and lack of oversight from the Athletic Department.

We have people employed whose WHOLE FREAKIN JOB is working with these kids to keep them eligible and make sure they make their grades. These kids are obvilously not dumb, but they are freshman in college. They should have had someone looking over their shoulder the entire time.

I'm not saying the blame doesn't lie with them, but I'm not privy to the standards or metrics the people responsible for these things are held to in the athletic dept. If you do please share. When was the last time we had a basketball player academically ineligible and did we get any new staffers in the past few years?

UNT90 · January 18, 2012

I'm not saying the blame doesn't lie with them, but I'm not privy to the standards or metrics the people responsible for these things are held to in the athletic dept. If you do please share. When was the last time we had a basketball player academically ineligible and did we get any new staffers in the past few years?

When was the last time we had our top 2 recruits from a basketball class ruled ineligible after one semester?

Mean Green Matt · January 18, 2012

I'm not saying the blame doesn't lie with them, but I'm not privy to the standards or metrics the people responsible for these things are held to in the athletic dept. If you do please share. When was the last time we had a basketball player academically ineligible and did we get any new staffers in the past few years?

I'm sayint that I believe 100% if everyone had done their job and monitored everything they should have that Chris and Jordan would still be eligible. There is a whole group of people that are employed for the sole reason of keeping these athletes eligible. The resources and tutors are there whenver the athletes need them. I'm trying not to speculate, but this situation just screams that someone was not paying attention and it was too late to fix it.

MeanMag · January 18, 2012

How could this happen? Either the school has no oversight over it's basketball athletes or chose to ignore their poor academic performance. If the school had been monitoring their class work, why were they allowed to continue not only to play but mostly start. NT had Mitchell's grades almost immediately after classes ended but didn't know the situation with Jones and J. Williams until the start of the next semester. If they know why did they continue to play them and not get the team ready for their absence.

I really don't know how Jones, RV or whoever pretends to be academic advisers could allow this to happen. I certainly can understand freshmen not making their grades, but I can't understand how a coaching staff and administration could handle this any worse.

Of course they knew the situation, and probably were trying as hard as they could to get these guys to makeup work and tests from missing classes for basketball throughout the break. Today was the last possible moment that they could have qualified. Look at the 4 weeks as a grace period.

Getting the team ready for an absence: Do you honestly think that putting Forest Robinson out there after sitting him for so long was what Johnny really wanted to do?

wardly · January 18, 2012

I'm not giving JJ or the rest of the staff a pass... but I had classes with much less heralded scholarship athletes and I saw how easy they had it. The only way these kids could fail is by not caring enough to attend class. If you receive that kind of assistance and can't manage to pass your classes... that's all on you.

one of life's lessons is that you are responsible for your actions, not JJ,RV, or UNT's Athletic Department.hopefully this will "take" and these freshmen will learn from their mistakes.

TheTastyGreek · January 18, 2012

I don't see how we do not lose scholarships for this, but am not an expert on how the NCAA decides on such things.

A lot of it depends on whether they put in the work to get eligible and stick around. If they do, this won't be much of an issue. If they don't and they wash out of school... 2 out of 13 is a huge hit to the APR.

Mean Green Matt · January 18, 2012

A lot of it depends on whether they put in the work to get eligible and stick around. If they do, this won't be much of an issue. If they don't and they wash out of school... 2 out of 13 is a huge hit to the APR.

Thanks for the clarification.

MeanMag · January 18, 2012

I'm sayint that I believe 100% if everyone had done their job and monitored everything they should have that Chris and Jordan would still be eligible. There is a whole group of people that are employed for the sole reason of keeping these athletes eligible. The resources and tutors are there whenver the athletes need them. I'm trying not to speculate, but this situation just screams that someone was not paying attention and it was too late to fix it.

And I'm asking how big the dept. is. I'm not trying to argue, I just don't know what they are obligated to do in their job. If they are just supposed to be available and no one asks for help it certainly frames everything a bit differently.

I'm willing to admit that I have no idea about what goes on in the department aside from what I hear sometimes.