Western Kentucky (1/12/12)

UNTcrazy727 · January 13, 2012

If you're playing a team that's good at shooting, especially from deep, the worst thing you can do is go to a zone. They'll whip the ball around the perimeter until the zone falls behind the ball movement or they'll drive the paint, which will suck in the zone. Either of these tactics open up the outside shot. The zone is designed to keep slashers from getting to the rim or it can make it difficult for post players to get good position down low.

It's main weaknesses are the outside shot and defensive rebounding. Basic basketball knowledge.

MeanMag · January 13, 2012

I was not at the game but wathcing it on DVR, just like to note they ran the 2-3 zone and oh wait... they defended the three... I wonder why...

they did run a 2-3 zone and wku was still hitting 3's. I even made a joke about it.

greenminer · January 13, 2012

Skiver, the dilemma you face is two-fold:

1) Until you start coaching, you're still 0-0 and that record might be CBL's, too.

2) All your basketball friends are hiding from the media. Everything you say is contrary to what EVERYONE on this board is seeing on TV: analysts, COACHES, etc...sitting in front of the camera saying "kill the zone with the three".

So, unless a national conspiracy is revealed pretty darn quickly, you're not going to get anywhere. But you could very well be into the tragic hero thing...so have at it.

(Best wishes in the coaching gig.)

Edited January 13, 2012 by greenminer

filmerj · January 13, 2012

they did run a 2-3 zone and wku was still hitting 3's. I even made a joke about it.

He did, I was there.

Keith7 · January 13, 2012

Here's a good read Skiver:

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/23zonedefense.html

The first paragraph says it all.

Rudy · January 13, 2012

I'm in awe of this basketball discussion. Droppin knowledge ya'll!

I'm in aww of it.

Maduro · January 13, 2012

penetration leads to the three...

and herpes

no funeral

Army of Dad · January 13, 2012

Mitchell's no look reverse dunk had me yelling at my house!

This was maybe the most amazing play I have seen in the Super Pit, just jaw droppingly awesome and I'm not sure how he kept from hitting his head on the rim.

We must have bigger rims as the Toppers seemed to be on fire from three.
Also TM needs to wear a mouth piece or he may break teeth on the rim.

He had an alley oop dunk (from Jordan?) in the second half and when he caught the ball I looked to the rim and realized that he was looking down at the rim.

MeanGreenTexan · January 13, 2012

My favorite play was the Alzee steal, then pass to a streaking Tony Mitchell completely uncontested (the WKY players were literally walking back). I'm gearing up for the highlight dunk of the evening... perhaps a 720 or something like that?

Instead, Tony fumbles the ball under the basket, picks it back up, looks around for a defender (who are all still on the other side of the court watching), then just throws it down with a simple 2 hand jam.

I was laughing so hard... I guess what they say is true: The only person who can stop Tony Mitchell, is Tony Mitchell.

kalebschumann · January 13, 2012

and herpes

no funeral

Who -1 -ed this!?!? I have corrected this wrong. That's a good joke.

oldguystudent · January 13, 2012

Huh. I'm on my phone and working through this thread backwards. Imagine my surprise at the green lit tower. Reading through post game comments, I thought UNT got it handed to them on a platter.

kalebschumann · January 13, 2012

My favorite play was the Alzee steal, then pass to a streaking Tony Mitchell completely uncontested (the WKY players were literally walking back). I'm gearing up for the highlight dunk of the evening... perhaps a 720 or something like that?
Instead, Tony fumbles the ball under the basket, picks it back up, looks around for a defender (who are all still on the other side of the court watching), then just throws it down with a simple 2 hand jam.

I was laughing so hard... I guess what they say is true: The only person who can stop Tony Mitchell, is Tony Mitchell.

I've seem him doing well in his 720 dunk drills during warm ups. So I'm sure we'll see the 720 come out soon.

glick1980 · January 13, 2012

This team is certainly getting better, if Tony stays, next year this team will be a force on a national level with the additions of Odoh and hopefully Patton.

GreenN'walinsVet · January 13, 2012

OK i have to ask:

With all this zone talk and outside shooting blah blah. Why is it that people seem to think that our defense is our biggest weakness? This team with its athleticism is a far better defensive team then in past years.

Hell if this team learns to shoot and continues to play defense they way they are now they will be damn near unbeatable.

Need i remind those complaining that we only gave up 67 points last night. While true that may not be the Alabama defense of the championship game, we should still be able to go undefeated giving up only 67 every game with our talent level.

With as much up tempo basketball this team likes to play they are going to give up a few more points because of it.

UNTMike81 · January 13, 2012

I think last night was the first time I really saw this team play a good/great complete game. If you watched game there was confidence that no matter what WKU did our team would answer, shut down WKU, and win game.

I hopo we play this good or better the rest of the season. If we do I can't wait for March Madness. Next year might even be much better than this one too.

Go Mean Green!!!!

Edited January 13, 2012 by UNTMike81

greenminer · January 13, 2012

OK i have to ask:

With all this zone talk and outside shooting blah blah. Why is it that people seem to think that our defense is our biggest weakness? This team with its athleticism is a far better defensive team then in past years.

Hell if this team learns to shoot and continues to play defense they way they are now they will be damn near unbeatable.

Need i remind those complaining that we only gave up 67 points last night. While true that may not be the Alabama defense of the championship game, we should still be able to go undefeated giving up only 67 every game with our talent level.

With as much up tempo basketball this team likes to play they are going to give up a few more points because of it.

We rely on our individual athleticism and length to get in the passing lanes and create turnovers/havoc.

I think our team defense, which is another thing, has a lot of room to get better.

Maduro · January 13, 2012

Who -1 -ed this!?!? I have corrected this wrong. That's a good joke.

i love you

FirefightnRick · January 13, 2012

Here's a good read Skiver:

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/23zonedefense.html

The first paragraph says it all.

The Second paragraph and beyond says more, and I think is more of what Skiver is most referring to.

..." On the other hand, if you have good, quick athletes, the 2-3 zone can also be a more aggressive, trapping style of defense, creating turnovers and steals... but you must have quick athletic players to employ this type of defense. You can aggressively trap the corners, wings, and occasionally the point guard. Below are situations, with and without trapping. Study the diagrams below to understand the how the zone shifts, or moves.

A critical point

When the ball moves into the corner and the X4 defender moves out to cover the ball, it is imperative that the X5 defender slides over immediately into the low block vacated by X4. If X5 does not get there in time, the offense may get an easy pass into the low block, and a lay-up.

Ball on the wing.

See Diagram B. The outside (top) defender on the ball-side will cover the wing. The exception is on the skip pass from wing to the opposite wing, where the low outside defender will initially run out and defend until the top defender can get there... then the low defender will drop back down low. This is also the case on a very quick ball-reversal (diagram F).

Trapping the Wing - "Fist-2" or "Fist-3"

If you have quick athletes, you can try this defensive stunt. See the diagram to the left. X1 will pick the O1 up high and try to force O1 to dribble to the side of the defensive call... "Fist-2" to the right, "Fist-3" to the left. We start the opposite low defender X3 in the middle almost under the basket, so he/she can quickly rotate to the right block. X4 can start "cheating up" toward the wing. X2 lets the pass go to O2. Then X2 and X4 quickly close-out on O2 and double-team. X1 denies the pass back to O1, X5 denies the high post pass, and X3 denies the pass to the block.

It's "one trap and out". If the offense breaks the trap or passes out successfully, we just drop back into our usual 2-3 zone.

Ball in the corner, or short-corner.

See Diagram D. The outside low defender on the ball-side will cover the corner and short-corner. It's imperative that the middle X5 defender quickly drop to the ball-side block area to prevent a inside pass there. Here, X2 denies the pass back to the wing (their best shooter) while X1 covers the ball-side elbow (high post). Depending on the offense's strengths, we may instead have X2 sag inside the paint to help prevent O4 from dribble-penetrating (arrow).

See diagram C. The corner is a trapping opportunity if you have the quickness to do it. In addition to the outside low defender (X4) coming out, the top ball-side defender (X2) will sprint down and trap the corner. X1 will deny the pass back to the wing and X3 covers the elbow (high post). The long skip pass to the opposite wing is covered by quick reversal with X3 sprinting over and X1 dropping to the high post (diagram G)

Pass into the high post.

See Diagram E. Have your X5 defender come up to defend this (like a 2-1-2 zone now). But watch out for the underneath cutter in the paint. Your X3 and X4 defenders may have to cheat into the paint when X5 moves high.

Defending the point.

Defending the point is always problematic. If you know that their O2 guard is their best shooter, then have X1 defend the point at first and allow X2 to sag toward their good shooter. And just the opposite applies if O3 is their best shooter. At first you may decide to defend the point loosely, but if their O1 starts hitting some shots, you've got to get pressure there. Never let their point split the X1 and X2 defenders and dribble penetrate the middle. X1 and X2 really have to move quickly and work hard, and work together in order to cover the point and both wings, and give help in the high-post.

Trapping the Point

Diagram H below shows an aggressive "surprise" trap on the point guard. X1 and X2 run out and trap O1 as soon as O1 brings the ball across half-court. X3 and X4 run out and deny (or intercept) the pass to the wing. This is a gamble, and you may get an interception or a turnover, especially if the offensive set is a 3-out, 2-in (no high post). But this is not something you would do all the time, as it is obvious from the diagram that you could get burned by a quick pass from O1 to the high-post (free-throw line). You might make this a defensive call, like "Red" or "Hot".

Covering the Skip Pass

Covering the skip pass from wing to wing, has been discussed above (diagram F). A skip pass from wing to opposite corner would be covered by the ball-side low outside defender.

Covering the skip pass from the corner to the opposite wing depends upon whether or not you have double-teamed the corner as in Diagram C. In the usual single-coverage (Diagram D), a skip pass from the corner to the opposite wing is covered by the opposite low outside defender (X3) who has back-side responsibility. Sometimes, a quick athletic X3 can anticipate the skip pass, jump out and intercept it and go for a lay-up. For example, in diagram F, as the ball is passed from the right corner to the left wing, X3 covers the receiver until X1 can rotate over, and then X3 will drop back down low. If the skip goes from the corner to the point, X1 should cover this (diagram F).

If you have double-teamed the corner (Diagram C), a long effective skip pass is less likely, but in this case would be covered as follows (see Diagram G):

1. Pass from right corner to left corner or wing... cover this with X3 defender.

2. Pass from right corner to point... cover the receiver with X1.

Players sometimes think playing a 2-3 zone defense is easier than man defense, but in fact, to play good zone defense, you may have to work much harder to be effective.

See this video clip from Jim Boeheim's DVD "Jim Boeheim's Complete Guide to the 2-3 Match-up Zone Defense

Helpful DVDs:

Jim Boeheim's Complete Guide to the 2-3 Match-up Zone Defense

By Jim Boeheim, Syracuse University Head Coach, 2003 NCAA Champions!..."

We have very quick and extremely athletic players on this team that I can only imagine what a Boeheim type system could do with them?

Rick

Edited January 13, 2012 by FirefightnRick

Maduro · January 13, 2012

I've seem him doing well in his 720 dunk drills during warm ups. So I'm sure we'll see the 720 come out soon.

i'll be happy just as long as they don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk.

KRAM1 · January 13, 2012

your right... I am stupid... maybe if a few of the players on the team, a coach or anyone who knew a lick about basketball talked to you... well you might learn something.

Speaking of which I ran into Harold Edwards tonight at the game I was working ended up talking to him for a while because he was training a player who was playing.

I really would like to see you get out and attempt to coach a team. My guess (no offense): your a 40 year old white male maybe 5'11, sits on the couch watches the game and just can "see" where everything is wrong... and assume because you can recall past statistics and players you think your basketball I.Q. is higher then coach K's. (just my guess... not saying I am not in or around that same boat... but just an assumption. Maybe touched a basketball court 5 times in your life? Coached...? most likely never...

So what makes your opinion right? (any defense can be effective with the right athletes and the right coaches influence)

Wow...racist overtones not appreciated here and adding "no offense" doesn't make it any the more appropriate. Dirk doesn't care for your slap at "white guys"...just sayin.....I don't think a person's skin color or race makes them any more or less an expert on basketball. Do you really think that?

MeanGreenDan · January 13, 2012

Wow...racist overtones not appreciated here and adding "no offense" doesn't make it any the more appropriate. Dirk doesn't care for your slap at "white guys"...just sayin.....I don't think a person's skin color or race makes them any more or less an expert on basketball. Do you really think that?

He has to be working a bit. There is no way this guy is for real anymore. He has turned into a cartoon character.