SBC, CUSA, Alliance...

[rcade]

The Belt will look like fools if we invited LA Tech and they refused again.

True, but I didn't say we should invite them. If LA Tech comes hat in hand to the Sun Belt after the WAC implodes further, the conference ought to take them back. It would benefit UNT and the Louisiana schools in the conference especially.

[NM Green]

Exactly. You root for where you are planted!

If I were in the MWC right now I would be pissed and discouraged with how Saturday unfolded. If we get into CUSA they had better raise their level of football play immediately. Keep the pressure on all sports. In the MWC UNLV took down previously unbeaten Illinois in the United Center avenging last year's horrible tournament beat down. New Mexico went into Oklahoma City and took down the OSU Cowboys. Wyoming is 11-1 in basketball in a shocking development. The MWC basketball is stepping up thus far and the SBC is stepping up in bowl season this year. Hopefully FIU doesn't get distracted by the Pitt hiring.

I've said it before - even if we get into CUSA or MWC the SBC is going to be a nice Southeastern based league that will only get tougher to deal with. We are in a good place while shooting for the stars. The Big East is going to have a big transition period just building natural rivalries despite decent programs like Boise, SDSU and Houston. SMU riding the coattails and laughing at programs like ECU and Southern Miss who have done a heck of a lot over the decade to improve their chances makes me a bit sick to my stomach. But oh well kudos to SMU and good luck building the new rivalries. We will be great continuing to build our program for the future. Still no ACC or Pac 12 in DFW so keep building and anything can happen.

GMG

[Coffee and TV]

UTSA is another USF in the making. In five years, the Sun Belt will be kicking itself for not inviting them.

Meh...I dunno about that. Florida was a hotbed for talent with players constantly having to go out of state if they were overlooked by the big 3 (Miami, UF, FSU). When USF came up they (along with UCF to some extent) filled that void. Texas is full of talent, but its really crowded with 10 schools as it is, plus a couple of strong FCS programs.

[wardly]

I hope everyone reads Arkstfan's analysis in the thread listed above. It's interesting, very well reasoned and a bit scary from our viewpoint.

i read the article and admit it could get interesting for the BELT.as of today, the Big East needs to add 1 more football only school to get to 12 teams. front runners are Temple and ECU. i think AFA is staying in MWC despite Navy's eventual move to Big East. MWC now has 8 football teams, has applied for AQ status,and they should know status by 1/15/2012, the date MWC/CUSA meet to decide on merger. if MWC gets AQ status, merger is off, and they can just add SJSU and USU to get back to 10 football teams which will kill the WAC. if they fail to obtain AQ status, then the merged "Continental Conference" will have 17 football schools. the ECU president says the magic number is 18 football teams [as he is trying to leave for Big East].if so then the BELT would indeed be vulnerable, as the merged conference has no presence in Florida,DFW,or San Antonio [don't sell UTSA short].if a few teams are plucked from the WAC or BELT, then the remainder will consolidate. i don't see anyone interested in Idaho or NMST,and they probably will have to drop down.best case for UNT is MWC gets AQ status,merger fails, and CUSA adds 3 to get back to 12.even better if ECU moves and CUSA adds 4. and yes, it is a little scary.

[Harry]

i read the article and admit it could get interesting for the BELT.as of today, the Big East needs to add 1 more football only school to get to 12 teams. front runners are Temple and ECU. i think AFA is staying in MWC despite Navy's eventual move to Big East. MWC now has 8 football teams, has applied for AQ status,and they should know status by 1/15/2012, the date MWC/CUSA meet to decide on merger. if MWC gets AQ status, merger is off, and they can just add SJSU and USU to get back to 10 football teams which will kill the WAC. if they fail to obtain AQ status, then the merged "Continental Conference" will have 17 football schools. the ECU president says the magic number is 18 football teams [as he is trying to leave for Big East].if so then the BELT would indeed be vulnerable, as the merged conference has no presence in Florida,DFW,or San Antonio [don't sell UTSA short].if a few teams are plucked from the WAC or BELT, then the remainder will consolidate. i don't see anyone interested in Idaho or NMST,and they probably will have to drop down.best case for UNT is MWC gets AQ status,merger fails, and CUSA adds 3 to get back to 12.even better if ECU moves and CUSA adds 4. and yes, it is a little scary.

Good analysis but keep in mind, the Big 12 is bound and determined to get to 12 schools and then lock em in for 4ever. West Virginia is on an island and needs Louisville. Memphis could go for basketball. Big East will use CUSA for replacements. That could force CUSA to hit the Sun Belt harder for replacements.

The one clear fact is that in all said scenarios the WAC is dead as a football conference. I don't think the Mountain West will get the BCS waiver and will at minimum take Utah State. If Air Force leaves they'll take San Jose.

Here's what's really crazy. If AQ goes away in 2014 then the Big East may implode. Why would Boise and the others stay in a far flung league where they have no AQ incentive anymore?

[bleedgreen4ever]

Screw the bowl system. What we need is a playoff system.

[wardly]

Good analysis but keep in mind, the Big 12 is bound and determined to get to 12 schools and then lock em in for 4ever. West Virginia is on an island and needs Louisville. Memphis could go for basketball. Big East will use CUSA for replacements. That could force CUSA to hit the Sun Belt harder for replacements.

The one clear fact is that in all said scenarios the WAC is dead as a football conference. I don't think the Mountain West will get the BCS waiver and will at minimum take Utah State. If Air Force leaves they'll take San Jose.

Here's what's really crazy. If AQ goes away in 2014 then the Big East may implode. Why would Boise and the others stay in a far flung league where they have no AQ incentive anymore?

t.v.money. the chancellor of LSU said in jest,that when its all said and done there will be 2 conferences;ESPN and Fox Sports.those words may be more accurate that they were intended to be. thats why i think UNT,UTSA,and F_U have a better chance to get into an expanded CUSA than La.Tech.now its all about t.v. markets. some schools are in major and mid-major conferences that could not get in today because of their small population base.[and then there is Boise, an exception to my statement]however, in general i feel accurate in my statement. just an old man's opinion.

[Aquila_Viridis]

Adding Texas/New Mexico/Louisiana schools is just part of the solution. The SBC needs to jetison the bottom tier of the current league (e.g., MT, Troy, Monroe) to be attractive. That ain't gonna happen.

I agree with the concept though I don't agree with Troy being one of our lesser tier schools. Monroe needs to be buried. All the Cajun fans need to Occupy Baton Rouge until they can jettison the - Lafayette name. However it still leaves only three Belt schools that sound like real competition. I think a conference upgrade can only tolerate maybe one directional school, and of course that would be us. Instead of upgrading the Belt, the four schools form a new conference, taking the most serious sounding from the WAC and MAC:

Arkansas State

Troy

Louisiana

North Texas

New Mexico State

Louisiana Tech

Idaho

Ohio

then add whatever else from the WAC and MAC to round it out. Utah State if available, Toledo, Bowling Green? Sure it's spread out, but look what the MWC and CUSA monstrosity will be like. For a MAC team that would be a way to break from overconcentration and to separate themselves from the others who are locked in decades of subpar status with no end in sight. For us it is a way to kill UTSA and TX State which is way more important than many of you realize.

Just look at how that would compare to the conference lineup we have now. Noone is going to take us seriously playing Middle Tennessee, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Western Kentucky, South Alabama, etc. And no more weird basketball affiliations. At least when you're NORTH Texas, that's a region more substantial than most whole states. WE HAVE TO BREAK FROM MOST OF THIS CONFERENCE!

[rcade]

I think a conference upgrade can only tolerate maybe one directional school, and of course that would be us.

So the PAC-12 has filled its quota with USC?

I don't think there's any stigma associated with being a directional school. It certainly didn't stop USF and UCF from getting into the Big East

[Arkstfan]

Screw the bowl system. What we need is a playoff system.

I'm not sure a playoff is in our best interest. A playoff reverses the pressure for larger leagues. What happens if Alabama and 8 of their closest friends conclude they are better off in a smaller league to compete for a playoff spot?

MAC no longer makes sense to have 14, makes more sense to find a couple teams and split.

A playoff also makes what has been mythical pressure to reduce the size of FBS actual real pressure.

In an 8 or 9 league universe in the current system we are better off. Still going to get crap PR but we will get better recognition.

[Arkstfan]

As much as I want to see it happen I don't see how the WAC folds.

The Mountain West would have to have its BCS bid denied. The MWC-CUSA merger would have to go forward.

The MWC would have to take a team from the WAC (Utah State or San Jose State) and the Sun Belt would have to take two teams (LA Tech and New Mexico State or UTSA).

The WAC has until July 1, 2014 to have added an additional football playing school.

I don't think UNT is changing its mind about joining. Why would Montana, UC-Davis, Sac State, Cal Poly, Portland, Lamar, Sam Houston change their answer when the general situation in FBS paints the WAC's future as even more dim than when UTSA and TxSt joined?

[wardly]

I agree with the concept though I don't agree with Troy being one of our lesser tier schools. Monroe needs to be buried. All the Cajun fans need to Occupy Baton Rouge until they can jettison the - Lafayette name. However it still leaves only three Belt schools that sound like real competition. I think a conference upgrade can only tolerate maybe one directional school, and of course that would be us. Instead of upgrading the Belt, the four schools form a new conference, taking the most serious sounding from the WAC and MAC:

Arkansas State

Troy

Louisiana

North Texas

New Mexico State

Louisiana Tech

Idaho

Ohio

then add whatever else from the WAC and MAC to round it out. Utah State if available, Toledo, Bowling Green? Sure it's spread out, but look what the MWC and CUSA monstrosity will be like. For a MAC team that would be a way to break from overconcentration and to separate themselves from the others who are locked in decades of subpar status with no end in sight. For us it is a way to kill UTSA and TX State which is way more important than many of you realize.

Just look at how that would compare to the conference lineup we have now. Noone is going to take us seriously playing Middle Tennessee, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Western Kentucky, South Alabama, etc. And no more weird basketball affiliations. At least when you're NORTH Texas, that's a region more substantial than most whole states. WE HAVE TO BREAK FROM MOST OF THIS CONFERENCE!

Idaho and NMSU are best served by the Big Sky conference, and i can't think of a single reason Ohio would leave the MAC. in my opinion, a footprint in Florida is worth perserving, as both programs have recently built new stadiums and made financial committments to their programs. in a perfect world, i would trade ULM for La.Tech,add UTSA and Tex.State to create a Western division with regional rivals, and probably add UTA to balance UALR.of course in a really perfect world we would get SMU's open slot in CUSA.by the end of January we should have a better picture of our and the Belts future.

[Arkstfan]

Wright Waters on Alliance

January will be big...

Quote:"I think there's a huge moment in time coming up in January, when we see what they'll do in the BCS with the Mountain West request (for an automatic BCS berth)," Waters said. "I think if they get that, I think the (Conference USA-Mountain West) merger is probably off.

"If they don't get that, I think you'll see the merger between Conference USA and Mountain West, and that will reduce the number of conferences from 11 to 10. I think it'll be very difficult for the WAC and that could reduce the number to 9. It might also make it difficult for the Big East to remain a football league and that could drop it to 8.

"So when you're one of eight instead of one of 11, all of a sudden, you have a different profile and all the sustainability and stability that goes with it. So, I think this January is big."

View the full article

I disagree with the commissioner that we are moving to an eight conference universe. I believe we are moving to a nine or ten conference universe.

As I've stated on NCAABBS Sun Belt board, the middle class is disappearing in college football. Look at how the MWC, CUSA, and WAC raids have gone. The elite programs that made up the middle class are mostly gone. Those who remain are left in conferences with lower budget, lower supported schools than exisited in 2004 or even in 2010.

The people who did best in the Great Depression or our current great recession are those who had cash on hand and little debt. The AD at FAU was quoted after ASU hired Malzahn as saying Sun Belt schools have been smart in the coaching hires because the contracts offered have been consistent with what we can make in ticket sales. Look at Memphis. They hired a TCU coordinator for $100,000 to $250,000 a year more than ASU is paying Malzahn, drew fewer fans than ASU last year and they are slashing all season ticket packages $50 to $150.

The "rich" TV deal CUSA signed with Fox? Works out to $580,000 per school and was signed when Orlando, Dallas, and the better supported school in Houston were in the league.

The chasing of TV dollars is like what is happening in boardrooms of failing companies. Slash your core business and dump it to cling to the one steady revenue stream that in the long run won't exist without the core business. Go research the budgets of FBS schools. Whether its Texas or Texas Tech league revenue (which is only partially TV, it also includes NCAA, bowl, league championships, and sponsorships) is generally a third or less of operating income. The core revenue stream in college is ticket sales, donations, and sponsorships.

The new Big East and the Alliance are chasing TV dollars and BCS dollars mostly at the expense of playing regionally relevant schools. The problem UNT and Arkansas State share is that we lack a really close school that we can have a rivalry with that helps fuel donations and tickets. Swapping the Sun Belt label for the CUSA label doesn't resolve any of our problems if CUSA doesn't have those regionally relevant opponents.

They are ignoring their core business. I tend to believe that if you take care of selling tickets, soliciting donations and sponsorships that the TV part of the picture will take care of itself. You should never make a move solely because of TV. The intelligent conference asks first, "Does this school fit with us in their goals, aspirations, focus, and profile?". The second question should be, "Does adding this institution help anyone in the league sell more tickets and to develop a rivalry?". Look at TAMU. Back in the 80's LSU and TAMU had a short-run series that was extremely popular and Arkansas has a long history with them. Mizzou and Arkansas are a perfect fit though not as currently hobbled up in their division structure. You focus on growing the 70% of your business, not the 30%, especially if growing the 30% is at the cost of the 70%.

Rick Pitino has already said he will not comply with a Big East mandate to schedule the football only schools for a total of four games a year for each football only because Boise and San Diego are too far for the program to deal with.

How is San Diego State going to help SMU or Rutgers sell more tickets and generate more fan interest? How is a championship game against Nevada and the occasional cross-over basketball game against them going to help East Carolina sell more tickets and spur interest in their corner of North Carolina?

Commissioner Waters thinks the Big East will collapse and the fallout will trickle into the Alliance and some into the Sun Belt.

I disagree.

I think the Big XII will take Louisville and someone else, probably South Florida but maybe Cincinnati or Rutgers. Memphis would be a very long shot.

When that happens I have my doubts that the basketball schools will agree to add any more full members. If the ACC were to come back in and take two more, I'd wager heavily they will not agree to take any more football schools to get back to eight full football members.

The likely outcome in my opinion is that what is left of the Big East other than Boise State and San Diego State may finally see the light and approach the best CUSA programs and maybe Temple, maybe UMass, maybe a Sun Belt school or two and form a new conference that leaves UTEP, Tulane, Rice, UAB, maybe Tulsa out of the mix.

The western schools will take UTEP, Boise State, San Diego State, and maybe USU and San Jose, maybe NMSU (not likely thanks to UTEP and New Mexico) and do their own thing.

The Sun Belt will pick up Rice, UAB, Tulane and if available Tulsa. Might take La.Tech or UTSA or TexSt. and we will have the five wealthy leagues. We will have a new eastern/southeastern league to replace CUSA/Big East and a MWC sort of conference and there will be some schools left in the cold like NMSU and Idaho.

This post has been promoted to an article

[untjim1995]

I think we can all agree that the best case scenario here is that we get that invite to CUSA, with the next best possibility being to get invited to the MWC. The worst case scenario is for CUSA to expand with La Tech. Most of us believe that we are the perfect fit here, but La Tech has more name recognition because of their success in recent years. By the way, this is why we should root big-time for TCU to destroy them in their bowl game--anything that makes them look good (and a bowl win over a ranked TCU team would do that big time) is a huge punch to the gut for us.

If we were to be stuck in the SBC as it currenty sits, with no local teams to help with attendance issues and travel costs, our situation will not get any better long-term. Again, I know people hate the idea of playing in a conference with UTSA and Texas State, but the upside of finally getting in-state conference mates that provides easy travel for fans is huge to me. A SBC with La Tech, Texas State, UTSA, and NMSU would make me feel much better about staying in the SBC. But if La tech got the final CUSA spot, the SBC would have no reason to expand, so we would still not have a conference mate closer than Monroe, LA to play against for many years to come. I think it has become rather obvious that nobody travels of major note from any of the SBC schools to Denton, the SBC provides nothing in the form of a decent contract for TV (exposure and $$$), nor does the SBC excite anyone outside of the hearty 10k fans who basically support this program. It just keeps us on the perpetual wheel of irrelevance that we have always been on for decades. This isn't even factoring in the very real possibility that the MWC and CUSA will probably have some or all of its members stay as FBS programs if a new line ever gets drawn again on who gets to stay at the top level of college football and who get re-classified.

[Arkstfan]

I think we can all agree that the best case scenario here is that we get that invite to CUSA, with the next best possibility being to get invited to the MWC. The worst case scenario is for CUSA to expand with La Tech. Most of us believe that we are the perfect fit here, but La Tech has more name recognition because of their success in recent years. By the way, this is why we should root big-time for TCU to destroy them in their bowl game--anything that makes them look good (and a bowl win over a ranked TCU team would do that big time) is a huge punch to the gut for us.

If we were to be stuck in the SBC as it currenty sits, with no local teams to help with attendance issues and travel costs, our situation will not get any better long-term. Again, I know people hate the idea of playing in a conference with UTSA and Texas State, but the upside of finally getting in-state conference mates that provides easy travel for fans is huge to me. A SBC with La Tech, Texas State, UTSA, and NMSU would make me feel much better about staying in the SBC. But if La tech got the final CUSA spot, the SBC would have no reason to expand, so we would still not have a conference mate closer than Monroe, LA to play against for many years to come. I think it has become rather obvious that nobody travels of major note from any of the SBC schools to Denton, the SBC provides nothing in the form of a decent contract for TV (exposure and $$$), nor does the SBC excite anyone outside of the hearty 10k fans who basically support this program. It just keeps us on the perpetual wheel of irrelevance that we have always been on for decades. This isn't even factoring in the very real possibility that the MWC and CUSA will probably have some or all of its members stay as FBS programs if a new line ever gets drawn again on who gets to stay at the top level of college football and who get re-classified.

La.Tech I believe is headed to the Alliance and I don't think it is based on market (obviously) nor is it based on any accomplishments they have put forward, nor is it based on their facilities, attendance or any other measure.

The Alliance needs a team east of the giant void between UTEP and the rest of the world. La.Tech can be taken without harming a viable conference because the WAC is not viable to remain FBS. It is simply about a warm body that is already FBS that can be taken without harming the MAC or Sun Belt.

There are only two reasons that CUSA holds any value for UNT. Rice and Tulsa. The TV deal? It works out to $580,000 per school IF Fox doesn't reduce the money in the wake of losing SMU, Houston, and UCF (three large markets that Fox is strong in). The net dollar difference in the CUSA and Sun Belt deals is $480,000 that works out to roughly a 4,000 tickets per football game with no new donations. Opening Apogee generates more revenue for UNT than the CUSA TV deal and that's if it isn't reduced.

If UNT isn't selected. Long-term adding UTSA to the Sun Belt drives nearly the same dollars to UNT as being in CUSA. That's if CUSA doesn't collapse.

If CUSA collapses and Tulsa and or Rice gets left behind and one or both become part of the Sun Belt or whatever name emerges, UNT comes out ahead.

Amazon isn't in the business of selling Kindles. They sell Kindles because they've got hard numbers showing that Kindle users at least double their spending with Amazon for books and such compared to when they didn't own Kindles.

The Alliance and New Big East aren't built around the concept of selling tickets. They are built around the concept of TV dollars. If CUSA tripled their TV dollars that would be $1.75 million. They can make more by increasing ticket sales by $300,000 per home game in football.

They are doomed to collapse because they've forgotten they are in the business of selling books and movies and aren't in the business of selling Kindles.

[MeanGreenHoops]

La.Tech I believe is headed to the Alliance and I don't think it is based on market (obviously) nor is it based on any accomplishments they have put forward, nor is it based on their facilities, attendance or any other measure.

The Alliance needs a team east of the giant void between UTEP and the rest of the world. La.Tech can be taken without harming a viable conference because the WAC is not viable to remain FBS. It is simply about a warm body that is already FBS that can be taken without harming the MAC or Sun Belt.

There are only two reasons that CUSA holds any value for UNT. Rice and Tulsa. The TV deal? It works out to $580,000 per school IF Fox doesn't reduce the money in the wake of losing SMU, Houston, and UCF (three large markets that Fox is strong in). The net dollar difference in the CUSA and Sun Belt deals is $480,000 that works out to roughly a 4,000 tickets per football game with no new donations. Opening Apogee generates more revenue for UNT than the CUSA TV deal and that's if it isn't reduced.

If UNT isn't selected. Long-term adding UTSA to the Sun Belt drives nearly the same dollars to UNT as being in CUSA. That's if CUSA doesn't collapse.

If CUSA collapses and Tulsa and or Rice gets left behind and one or both become part of the Sun Belt or whatever name emerges, UNT comes out ahead.

Amazon isn't in the business of selling Kindles. They sell Kindles because they've got hard numbers showing that Kindle users at least double their spending with Amazon for books and such compared to when they didn't own Kindles.

The Alliance and New Big East aren't built around the concept of selling tickets. They are built around the concept of TV dollars. If CUSA tripled their TV dollars that would be $1.75 million. They can make more by increasing ticket sales by $300,000 per home game in football.

They are doomed to collapse because they've forgotten they are in the business of selling books and movies and aren't in the business of selling Kindles.

I heart Arkstfan. He makes good points and backs them up with facts. I almost feel sorry for what Tony Mitchell is about to do to his Red Wolves

[GrandGreen]

I highly doubt any conference (CUSA) is going to pick up any team (La Tech) because they don't want to harm an existing conference. That has not been a factor in any conference move I am aware of. CUSA may pick La Tech or some one else but it is not going to be because they care anything about the Belt.

[Arkstfan]

I highly doubt any conference (CUSA) is going to pick up any team (La Tech) because they don't want to harm an existing conference. That has not been a factor in any conference move I am aware of. CUSA may pick La Tech or some one else but it is not going to be because they care anything about the Belt.

It actually is a factor. Will they take a goose when they could get the one that lays golden eggs just to save a league? No. But when the Sun Belt put the Big West out of business, everyone was too squeamish to kill a league without offering a home to everyone left out. MWC backed off killing the WAC before because they didn't have the stomach to do it. If they had UTSA and TexSt would still be talking about hoping to start the process to move.

[VideoEagle]

The Alliance and New Big East aren't built around the concept of selling tickets. They are built around the concept of TV dollars. If CUSA tripled their TV dollars that would be $1.75 million. They can make more by increasing ticket sales by $300,000 per home game in football.

They are doomed to collapse because they've forgotten they are in the business of selling books and movies and aren't in the business of selling Kindles.

Obviously, some Presidents and ADs are too caught up to do the actual evaluation of the sources of their funds. Hopefully, our's are not so caught up in the names on the uniform patches verses running productive universities and athletic departments that they don't do something stupid. Saying "we must move to conference X because our conference is bad" without looking at who is actually still in those conferences is ridiculous. The 2013 Big XII is simply not as strong as the 2010 conference was. CUSA was clearly stronger with Louisville and Cincy than without them and after SMU, Houston and UCF leave it will be much less strong.

If "perception is reality" then housing prices would still be rising 10%+ a year, subprime mortgages would be sound investments and the tech bubble would not have burst. Those things did happen. Perception is clearly NOT reality.

[GrandGreen]

It actually is a factor. Will they take a goose when they could get the one that lays golden eggs just to save a league? No. But when the Sun Belt put the Big West out of business, everyone was too squeamish to kill a league without offering a home to everyone left out. MWC backed off killing the WAC before because they didn't have the stomach to do it. If they had UTSA and TexSt would still be talking about hoping to start the process to move.

So FAU, FIU, MTSU, WKU and NT are all going to stay in the Belt, as CUSA picks La Tech even though all in my opinion are better choices than La Tech. By the way I hardly think the Belt will die, if it loses one or three teams. Again, not sure any Belt team lays golden eggs, but for CUSA to desert the Metroplex or Florida markets and add Ruston to keep in the good graces of the Belt seems far fetched.

[NM Green]

Tulsa and Rice would like UNT in CUSA due to destination and easy travel. It is time to use this to our advantage, and our conversations with new leagues need to be creative. For example we are centrally located which is great! But we are on the east and west of both CUSA and MWC. It would be nice to package UNT with Rice, Tulsa, UTEP and join the MWC. But also add a bowl game in Apogee hopefully for one of the Eastern schools or UTEP or UNM which would travel to DFW well. That would give the MWC a bowl in Hawaii, Las Vegas and Dallas/Fort Worth. Nice league with nice bowl destinations for it's members which stretch from Honolulu to Houston. Tulsa, Rice and UNT would be natural rivals, UTEP and UNM would reunite, AF, CSU and WY are natural rivals, Fresno, Hawaii, Reno and UNLV are natural rivals (Hawaiians travel and have large populations in these areas). UTEP still gets to play in Texas. I really think a new Mountain West which included:

Hawaii

Fresno State

UNLV

Reno

Wyoming

Colorado State

Air Force

New Mexico

UTEP

UNT

Tulsa

Rice

would be a heck of a lot better than the monster conglomeration they are talking about which also includes ECU, Marshall, Memphis...If you are going to go that far East it needs to be into easily accessible international airports.

[shaft]

Stop. Just stop. A bowl game at Apogee.

I love our school too, but lets come back to to earth on this one.

[NT91]

Yes a post season game in Denton would be nice.

[GTWT]

If CUSA collapses and Tulsa and or Rice gets left behind and one or both become part of the Sun Belt or whatever name emerges, UNT comes out ahead.

1) Neither Tulsa nor Rice would have anything to do with the Sun Belt. They would drop football first.

2)cUSA won't collapse. As a conference it has more options than MWC or any of the three dwarves.

3) As for North Texas - if we come out of the current reorganization still in the SBC - we lose.

[VideoEagle]

1) Neither Tulsa nor Rice would have anything to do with the Sun Belt. They would drop football first.

/quote]

Not sure what you are basing this on. Rice did a study after the fall of the SWC and the vast majority of their donating alumni wanted to maintain FBS football at "some level."