What we have been battling for decades

untjim1995 · November 30, 2011

This was posted on the Recruiting Board, but I think it holds major relevance for us today in terms of our alignment in certain conferences and with our views of other Texas schools.

Somehow, I still have a copy of Athlon's 1978 Southwest Football. In the North Texas (State) writeup, there is a picture of Chambers against SMU. Among other things in the mag are the so PC "Honey Watching" section and this nugget on our SWC advances: "Despite the fact that Fry's charges defeated SMU last year and played Texas extremely close in 1976, Southwest Conference officials spurn North Texas' overtures for membership like advances of an enamored suitor with leprosy. As one metroplex athletic director noted, 'They won't get in the league as long as I'm here.' "

The hill/mountain is steep, especially when the other schools around here literally want nothing to do with having us in a conference with them. With no rival to build with, our program hasn't been able to sustain any momentum or interest during times when our program is either down (most of the time) or when we are winning but playing schools no one has heard of or cares about.

The intriguing part here, to me, is not how the private schools look down at us, as well as probably the other Texas state schools from the old SWC, but its how we look at UTSA and Texas State. To me, this is the golden chance to build something with two other schools that look like us, are growing, and are at similar stages as FBS programs RIGHT NOW. I capitalize that part because I want everyone to recognize that I know we are much further along in terms of history than either of those schools, but we are also miles ahead of them in apathy, too. We could really start something if the three schools started playing each other and getting something built in terms of rivalry and dependability. Who knows, it might even attract a UTEP to consider being a part of that mix one day, since Rice would be its only other conference mate in Texas if SMU and UH leave CUSA. Also, in bigger possibilities, it could eventually leave those smaller private schools out of future conferences. Its my belief that none of those schools--except TCU and Baylor--bring much to a conference. And its possible that TCU could easily fall back to its old status as being an also-ran now that they will be playing those bigger schools every week in the Big XII-II. All in all, those private schools are super small, have small followings unless they win and get their cities' interest for that particular season, and their cities are full of alums from the bigger state schools, which causes their media and fan attention to never really get to the level that they "sell" to these conferences and networks. There is just no way that SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, or Rice deliver anything remotely close to what their dollars can buy. the Big East will find this out, just as CUSA has found it out. But, to me, an SBC with us, Texas State, and UTSA, as well as a La Tech and a NMSU, would work out fine with me, at least for the next few years. It sure beats the heck out of continuing this nonsense of the current SBC with no one close than a 6 hour drive and full of teams no one cares about in the least.

Edited November 30, 2011 by untjim1995

EdwardRRooney · November 30, 2011

But we are the elite when compared to Tx St and UTSA, right? That's what everyone around likes to think, anyways. For the record, I agree. We need to play those guys and embrace them because no matter what anyone thinks, we aren't far ahead of them.

Green Mean · November 30, 2011

I'd much rather be in a conference with Rice, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa than UTSA and TX State.

greenminer · November 30, 2011

Why did these old farts want nothing to do with us?

Mean Green 93-98 · November 30, 2011

We had similar regional games when we were in the Southland. I'm not necessarily opposed with being in a conference with one of the two expected FBS newcomers (I kind of like Texas State), but based on the reasoning I have seen repeatedly, would we not also want to be in a conference with Sam Houston State, SFA, and McNeese State? Is that really what we want?

foutsrouts · November 30, 2011

But we are the elite when compared to Tx St and UTSA, right? That's what everyone around likes to think, anyways. For the record, I agree. We need to play those guys and embrace them because no matter what anyone thinks, we aren't far ahead of them.

Kind of a sad state of affairs if this is the case. Especially when you consider that we are going on 1000 games in 100 years, while one of them is going on 10 games in 1 year (at the lowest level), and the other has never played a single football game at the highest level. I don't mind scheduling them, but I'd rather not be looking to join up with them for the time being. I'm damned tired of waiting, but I prefer that we see how things shake out over the next 3-5 years before starting a new Southland.

Green P1 · November 30, 2011

Why did these old farts want nothing to do with us?

When I was a baby I put rat poison in my identical twin's pudding. I was already competing with my big brother for attention, didn't wanna deal with that loser as well.

risinggreen · November 30, 2011

Around ten years ago when I saw the UTSA campus for the first time, it really just impressed me as looking like a large community college with very little campus life. After driving through it a couple of months ago, I have to admit that I was fairly amazed with how quickly it has progressed into a large modern school with a lot going on around campus.

I wouldn't mind being conference mates with them and San Marcos eventually, but I guess I'm just not ready to give up on the USA/MWC dream just yet. I think everyone knows that it's probably going to take some serious winning before those two conferences come a calling, so I guess we're just stuck on the treadmill for the moment.

EdwardRRooney · November 30, 2011

Kind of a sad state of affairs if this is the case. Especially when you consider that we are going on 1000 games in 100 years, while one of them is going on 10 games in 1 year (at the lowest level), and the other has never played a single football game at the highest level. I don't mind scheduling them, but I'd rather not be looking to join up with them for the time being. I'm damned tired of waiting, but I prefer that we see how things shake out over the next 3-5 years before starting a new Southland.

Sadly, being older doesn't mean we are that much further along.

untjim1995 · November 30, 2011

Around ten years ago when I saw the UTSA campus for the first time, it really just impressed me as looking like a large community college with very little campus life. After driving through it a couple of months ago, I have to admit that I was fairly amazed with how quickly it has progressed into a large modern school with a lot going on around campus.

I wouldn't mind being conference mates with them and San Marcos eventually, but I guess I'm just not ready to give up on the USA/MWC dream just yet. I think everyone knows that it's probably going to take some serious winning before those two conferences come a calling, so I guess we're just stuck on the treadmill for the moment.

This why I don't mind the idea of having the SBC pull in UTSA and Texas State into the conference now. Until we can improve enough to move up the food chain (or be allowed to move up), then I think the ability to play in-state schools that look like us has alot of merit for all involved. I am not giving up on the dream of going to CUSA or the MWC either, but assuming that it doesn't happen, I like the idea of having other Texas teams in the Belt instead of the way it is currently setup, especially as we get ready to shatter the earth with the addition of South Alabama!!

untjim1995 · November 30, 2011

I'd much rather be in a conference with Rice, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa than UTSA and TX State.

Just to be clear, I would, too. But since those first four schools have basically said that they dont want anything to do with ever being associated with UNT in an athletic conference over the last 40 years, I think our wishes are probably not going to be granted any time soon...

Eagle1855 · November 30, 2011

The fact is, we're an afterthought in an afterthought conference, and none of that is going to change until we start producing results.

TIgreen01 · November 30, 2011

I wouldn't mind being conference mates with them and San Marcos eventually, but I guess I'm just not ready to give up on the USA/MWC dream just yet.

Honestly, this is EXACTLY what I think our administration is working behind the scenes. Our first priority is to take a step up and into CUSA. MWC, depending on what it looks like, is priority #2. Should both of those options lead to dead-ends, then we give a strong look at whatever conference option unites us with more regionally known teams. I have no idea what that entails, but I would think we'd be more interested in playing TSU/UTSA than FIU/FAU. However, I'm almost sure we'd rather just add LaTech and NMSU back to the Sun Belt. I think their administration has the same priorities as ours (#1, get invited to CUSA/MWC; #2, look at regional options) only with a bit more earnest with regard to escaping the soon to be severely watered down WAC. We can sit tight and be just fine, but LaTech cannot. They need into CUSA/MWC/Sun Belt, in that order. I cannot believe that they'd get an invite to CUSA/MWC before we would...and I bet our administration is betting on that as well.

To add on to that, I think that our administration would prefer staying in the Sun Belt and adding a couple of western (regional) teams than uprooting and joining the WAC should it come to that. I think LaTech and NMSU are easier sells to the rest of the conference than UTSA and TSU are, at this point. Either way, read the tea-leaves and you can tell that our administration is not dead set against joining up with UTSA/TSU, should it come to that.

risinggreen · November 30, 2011

The fact is, we're an afterthought in an afterthought conference, and none of that is going to change until we start producing results.

True. Kicking butt on the football field (and other fields etc.)is about all that matters at this point. I mean, what is the innate attraction of Boise that got them to this point? No history, middle of nowhere, not exactly Harvard, and they play in a prettied up blue version of Fouts. They simply won football games in relatively crappy football conferences, and got good enough to win their OOC games against the big boys. That's the route we're going to have to follow regardless of who's in our conference. Nothing new here, but that's just the way it is for us.

kalebschumann · November 30, 2011

Honestly, this is EXACTLY what I think our administration is working behind the scenes. Our first priority is to take a step up and into CUSA. MWC, depending on what it looks like, is priority #2. Should both of those options lead to dead-ends, then we give a strong look at whatever conference option unites us with more regionally known teams. I have no idea what that entails, but I would think we'd be more interested in playing TSU/UTSA than FIU/FAU. However, I'm almost sure we'd rather just add LaTech and NMSU back to the Sun Belt. I think their administration has the same priorities as ours (#1, get invited to CUSA/MWC; #2, look at regional options) only with a bit more earnest with regard to escaping the soon to be severely watered down WAC. We can sit tight and be just fine, but LaTech cannot. They need into CUSA/MWC/Sun Belt, in that order. I cannot believe that they'd get an invite to CUSA/MWC before we would...and I bet our administration is betting on that as well.

To add on to that, I think that our administration would prefer staying in the Sun Belt and adding a couple of western (regional) teams than uprooting and joining the WAC should it come to that. I think LaTech and NMSU are easier sells to the rest of the conference than UTSA and TSU are, at this point. Either way, read the tea-leaves and you can tell that our administration is not dead set against joining up with UTSA/TSU, should it come to that.

Exactly what I was going to say.

It's a solid 2nd option

Cr1028 · November 30, 2011

UTSA and TSU both have over 30k students. I don't think you can ignore them forever. I think we should strike up a relationship with at least TSU-SM since they trail us by only 3500 students and would be a nice roadtrip for you guys and a close to home game for me. :thumbsu:

Green Mean · November 30, 2011

Just to be clear, I would, too. But since those first four schools have basically said that they dont want anything to do with ever being associated with UNT in an athletic conference over the last 40 years, I think our wishes are probably not going to be granted any time soon...

We are giving other schools, conferences, fans, students, alums a reason not to care about us but we can change that. And if you ask any of those schools' administrations (except maybe SMU), I am pretty certain they would all be willing to be conference mates with us especially CUSA now that they're losing both UH and SMU. MWC does technically need a footprint in Texas so if they are wise then UNT would have to be an option and I don't think most of those schools would have an issue with us because of what potential we have to offer and what kind of recruiting footprint we will provide. Worse comes to worse I'll accept TSU and UTSA because as they say beggars can't be choosers but I think we have a shot just as much as anybody else of getting into the MWC or CUSA.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Green Mean

wardly · November 30, 2011

IF, and its a big IF,AFC,Boise,and SDSU leave MWC for Big East, then the MWC becomes a glorified WAC. if we complain about no intrastate rivals now and the travel distance to Sun Belt members, then the MWC is not for us. the closest member is in Albuqurque, which is a lot futher from Denton than Monroe. given my " druthers ", i would rather be a replacement for SMU SHOULD they and Houston leave CUSA for Big EAST.baring that, i would just as soon stay in the Belt with the addition of La.Tech,TX.St.,UTSA, and NMSU from the WAC creating 7 school Western and Eastern divisions. even UTEP doesn't want in the MWC.