I Hope for UNT this is Wrong

BigPonyFan · November 22, 2011

It's looking more like the CUSA/MWC monster will stick with its 18 members (9 and 9). I hope this is wrong as I would love to see UNT get an invite. Good luck guys!

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/Conference_USA_Mountain_West_To_Complete_134289338.html

Edited November 22, 2011 by BigPonyFan

wardly · November 22, 2011

if CUSA loses SMU,UCF, and Houston they will be down to 9 members. if MWC loses AFC and Bosie they will be down to 8 members. i just can't believe either conference would not want a presence in DFW.

EdwardRRooney · November 22, 2011

I've always thought this to be the most likely scenario. Hope I'm wrong.....

Green Mean · November 22, 2011

Unfortunately none of this surprises me. That being said our task at hand still doesn't change and that is trying to win and improve our overalll athletic program as much as possible e.g. renovating super pit, adding baseball etc.

Not getting a CUSA invite still doesn't prevent us from winning games, winning our conference and even going to bowl games. If these things happen then better conferences will come calling.

Hunter Green · November 22, 2011

Unfortunately none of this surprises me. That being said our task at hand still doesn't change and that is trying to win and improve our overalll athletic program as much as possible e.g. renovating super pit, adding baseball etc.

Not getting a CUSA invite still doesn't prevent us from winning games, winning our conference and even going to bowl games. If these things happen then better conferences will come calling.

I could'nt agree more. If this scenario plays out, the Sunbelt should extend and invite to NMSU, La. Tech, Texas St. and UTSA. I believe the conference would be better off with this re-alignment. At least for now.

UNTFan23 · November 22, 2011

What's the benefit of the merger again? The winner of each division plays in a championship game for the right to play in which bowl game? I don't see the winner of this championship game getting an auto invite to a BCS level bowl unless the BCS ranking is high enough.

EdwardRRooney · November 22, 2011

What's the benefit of the merger again? The winner of each division plays in a championship game for the right to play in which bowl game? I don't see the winner of this championship game getting an auto invite to a BCS level bowl unless the BCS ranking is high enough.

I would imagine that if someone ran the table in either MWC or cusa (unlikely) and won a ship game against the other conf that they would easily be BCS buster. Especially since most of the recent BCS busters will be in aq conferences by then. It seems like a pretty nice little plan. I wish we were already in one of those conferences.

Plus, I bet a few years down the line they could grab themselves a pretty nice tv deal.

Edited November 22, 2011 by EdwardRRooney

Wag Tag · November 22, 2011

if CUSA loses SMU,UCF, and Houston they will be down to 9 members. if MWC loses AFC and Bosie they will be down to 8 members. i just can't believe either conference would not want a presence in DFW.

They r not going to b n DFW or Florida....Better check with the recruiting coordinators !!

ForneyGreen · November 22, 2011

What's the benefit of the merger again? The winner of each division plays in a championship game for the right to play in which bowl game? I don't see the winner of this championship game getting an auto invite to a BCS level bowl unless the BCS ranking is high enough.

I think the benefits (at least perceived) are 1) the possibility of arranging the winner of the MWC/CUSA as as BCS invitee and 2) relieve the pressure of either conference having to make a quick decision on adding new members

I also feared that this merger would at least slow the process of UNT getting a CUSA (or MWC) invite, and I think that was one of the goals for the merger - produce stability without adding new schools.

Without further change, the Sun Belt would have 10 football schools in 2013 once U of South Alabama becomes a full football member - which is a nice number for scheduling purposes.

I really don't understand the Sun Belt hate threads lately... every school wants to get into a better conference, but I disagree that Sun Belt membership somehow holds us back from being very successful. Boise St. didn't need MWC membership to become a perennial Top 10 program - they just took care of themselves.

Best thing for us to do is just take care of ourselves and win games. I'm sure our leadership is touting all the positives of UNT to both the MWC and CUSA at every opportunity.

NM Green · November 22, 2011

If the MWC and CUSA stay the same, with all the defections the Sun Belt easily rivals both of those leagues with the left over programs. In listening to the Coach Mac show last night the stat that was stunning was that our losses came to teams that have won 77% of their games combined, including 2 top ten programs. Those other losses also included some SBC squads and Tulsa. Next year I am confident our goal is to go bowling and it is not an unrealistic goal. La La is going to New Orleans with thousands upon thousands of fans. Arkansas State is going bowling with a SOLID record. WKU and the red blob is bowl eligible. They looked flat out solid on both sides of the ball this past weekend. Troy will be back. UNT is almost there. FIU will re-emerge. I think the Sun Belt even if we leave will be a league to be reckoned with over the next decade. I would still like an invite to CUSA or MWC but if not no big deal. We will compete and go bowling wherever we plant ourselves and we have the regime to get us there.

GMG

P.S. - no DFW and Florida presence is crazy talk though. I just don't see those leftover programs being excited about staying put. GO BELT! Let's get some strong bowl wins this season! Most importantly lets send the seniors out strong on 12.3. Big Crowd! Loud Crowd! Big Win!

MDH · November 22, 2011

If we get passed over from the 18 team league, I won't be that dissapointed/surprised. If they expanded to say 24 and we were left out I'd probably jump out a window.

TheColonyEagle · November 22, 2011

Boise St. didn't need MWC membership to become a perennial Top 10 program - they just took care of themselves.

Excellent point.

Green Otaku · November 22, 2011

Possible outcome. However, the CUSA contract pays for a Champ. game, the would have to re-negotiate that and possibly lose revenue. Their network will have to share the game with the Mtn. and I could see a problem there. Not saying its a deal breaker but some consideration.

Also with 2 leaving the MWC they will have 8 sports members, and 7 for Olympic sports. I can't imagine they would want to stay at 7, so I see 1 all sports like Utah State, or a non-football team being added.

On an added note, if the teams stay and the alliance goes through, the MWC will have to go to 12 to match CUSA. Meaning they take two from the

WAC, or us with one from the WAC in a best case scenario. Either way that leaves the WAC ripe for a raid. The SBC should expand at that point.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Green Otaku

untjim1995 · November 22, 2011

It's looking more like the CUSA/MWC monster will stick with its 18 members (9 and 9). I hope this is wrong as I would love to see UNT get an invite. Good luck guys!

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/Conference_USA_Mountain_West_To_Complete_134289338.html

This is the worst news we have gotten in a long time, if it is indeed true. I still think we could eventually could get in, but it will not be immediate, which gives the other SBC and WAC teams time to make their cases heard, too. Eventually, the TV sets in Florida and Texas will matter to these conferences, especially when their TV deals need to get renegotiated, but I truly fear the real possibility that we will be in an even more watered down non-AQ conference than we are right now--and that it leads to us getting cut out of FBS. Its not hard to see the day when we will hear of the NCAA doing another i-a/i-aa split again. As a matter of fact, it might be the only way the NCAA can stay in business and not have the giant programs cut off from their membership to start another college athletic organization.

I will always believe that the new stadium saved our program from extinction, but our apathy and lack of success will be able to keep us from getting into the highest level of college football. Everything we offer as potential can be used against us fairly easily--big enrollment (apathy), location (lack of fan support, other schools have stronger appeal, town seems to hate college sports), and history (lots of losing in the modern era of college football). It is just not hard to see us being in a new FCS-type scenario down the road with other regional teams, both to save money and get people to travel to watch their teams. The non-AQs not in CUSA or the MWC probably would be able to coalesce into workable conference fairly easily. La Tech, ULL, ULM, Ark State, UNT, NMSU, UTSA, Texas State and Lamar will all probably face the same situation. I know it sucks, but it probably is how this thing will eventually have to play out. Denton, UNT grads, UNT students, faculty, etc...don't care by and large about anyone but the big AQ schools. Its not hard to imagine more UNT students on Saturday night watching UT and OU playing on their TVs than even KNOWING UNT was playing. You can't make them want to go watch Western Kentucky, just like you couldn't make them go watch Nevada, Sam Houston, or West Texas State to go back to earlier days of the program. Winning in the 70s proved this, just as winning in the early 00's proved it, which is why the "just win and it will fix everything" argument doesn't truly hold water. These people want to watch teams they follow and where their family and friends attended. But when those teams literally don't want to be associated with you and have proven that over a century or so, you are basically pigeon-holed into this "purgatory" that we are in. Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I don't see how those things really will ever change here.

Edited November 22, 2011 by untjim1995

Daddy Dumpsalot · November 22, 2011

I could'nt agree more. If this scenario plays out, the Sunbelt should extend and invite to NMSU, La. Tech, Texas St. and UTSA. I believe the conference would be better off with this re-alignment. At least for now.

So you want us to go backwards? First, NMSU and La Tech wont join the belt and why on earth would we want Tx St and UTSA in our conference?

DeepGreen · November 22, 2011

This is the worst news we have gotten in a long time, if it is indeed true. I still think we could eventually could get in, but it will not be immediate, which gives the other SBC and WAC teams time to make their cases heard, too. Eventually, the TV sets in Florida and Texas will matter to these conferences, especially when their TV deals need to get renegotiated, but I truly fear the real possibility that we will be in an even more watered down non-AQ conference than we are right now--and that it leads to us getting cut out of FBS. Its not hard to see the day when we will hear of the NCAA doing another i-a/i-aa split again. As a matter of fact, it might be the only way the NCAA can stay in business and not have the giant programs cut off from their membership to start another college athletic organization.

I will always believe that the new stadium saved our program from extinction, but our apathy and lack of success will be able to keep us from getting into the highest level of college football. Everything we offer as potential can be used against us fairly easily--big enrollment (apathy), location (lack of fan support, other schools have stronger appeal, town seems to hate college sports), and history (lots of losing in the modern era of college football). It is just not hard to see us being in a new FCS-type scenario down the road with other regional teams, both to save money and get people to travel to watch their teams. The non-AQs not in CUSA or the MWC probably would be able to coalesce into workable conference fairly easily. La Tech, ULL, ULM, Ark State, UNT, NMSU, UTSA, Texas State and Lamar will all probably face the same situation. I know it sucks, but it probably is how this thing will eventually have to play out. Denton, UNT grads, UNT students, faculty, etc...don't care by and large about anyone but the big AQ schools. Its not hard to imagine more UNT students on Saturday night watching UT and OU playing on their TVs than even KNOWING UNT was playing. You can't make them want to go watch Western Kentucky, just like you couldn't make them go watch Nevada, Sam Houston, or West Texas State to go back to earlier days of the program. Winning in the 70s proved this, just as winning in the early 00's proved it, which is why the "just win and it will fix everything" argument doesn't truly hold water. These people want to watch teams they follow and where their family and friends attended. But when those teams literally don't want to be associated with you and have proven that over a century or so, you are basically pigeon-holed into this "purgatory" that we are in. Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I don't see how those things really will ever change here.

Excellent analysis, and exactly how I feel about UNT's prospects on the big stage. We were never in the SWC club, and have been an afterthought since. Add to that our administration was never behind top shelf athletics. The damage was done years ago.

TIgreen01 · November 22, 2011

This is the worst news we have gotten in a long time, if it is indeed true. I still think we could eventually could get in, but it will not be immediate, which gives the other SBC and WAC teams time to make their cases heard, too. Eventually, the TV sets in Florida and Texas will matter to these conferences, especially when their TV deals need to get renegotiated, but I truly fear the real possibility that we will be in an even more watered down non-AQ conference than we are right now--and that it leads to us getting cut out of FBS. Its not hard to see the day when we will hear of the NCAA doing another i-a/i-aa split again. As a matter of fact, it might be the only way the NCAA can stay in business and not have the giant programs cut off from their membership to start another college athletic organization.

I will always believe that the new stadium saved our program from extinction, but our apathy and lack of success will be able to keep us from getting into the highest level of college football. Everything we offer as potential can be used against us fairly easily--big enrollment (apathy), location (lack of fan support, other schools have stronger appeal, town seems to hate college sports), and history (lots of losing in the modern era of college football). It is just not hard to see us being in a new FCS-type scenario down the road with other regional teams, both to save money and get people to travel to watch their teams. The non-AQs not in CUSA or the MWC probably would be able to coalesce into workable conference fairly easily. La Tech, ULL, ULM, Ark State, UNT, NMSU, UTSA, Texas State and Lamar will all probably face the same situation. I know it sucks, but it probably is how this thing will eventually have to play out. Denton, UNT grads, UNT students, faculty, etc...don't care by and large about anyone but the big AQ schools. Its not hard to imagine more UNT students on Saturday night watching UT and OU playing on their TVs than even KNOWING UNT was playing. You can't make them want to go watch Western Kentucky, just like you couldn't make them go watch Nevada, Sam Houston, or West Texas State to go back to earlier days of the program. Winning in the 70s proved this, just as winning in the early 00's proved it, which is why the "just win and it will fix everything" argument doesn't truly hold water. These people want to watch teams they follow and where their family and friends attended. But when those teams literally don't want to be associated with you and have proven that over a century or so, you are basically pigeon-holed into this "purgatory" that we are in. Maybe I'm overly pessimistic, but I don't see how those things really will ever change here.

Yes, you are.

We were not that far away in 2005. The four years of winning, going to bowls, and the general fun of the tailgating scene growing had us on the radar. Back then, it wasn't the 'New Orleans Bowl'. It was the 'North Texas Bowl'. We were in the early stages of turning the corner and we almost landed a bid to CUSA, in spite of our pathetic budget and facilities. If Dickey uses those 4 years of winning to build a recruiting advantage, you'd be whistling a different tune. Just imagine had Dickey done what JJ has now accomplished---turned 5 years of winning (against the weakest schedule imaginable) into the best class of basketball players the school has seen in 30-40 years. This is essentially what Boise, TCU and Hawaii did...and Marshall did it in the mid-late 90s to show them the way. JJ has the basketball team ready to take the next step. There is absolutely no reason to think that the football program cannot follow suit. We've got everything else in place.

Edited November 22, 2011 by TIgreen01

wardly · November 22, 2011

both the Big East and MWV are in limbo. new report says BYU won't share home tv revenue with Big East, and that this is a deal breaker, as all other B.E. schools do as well as all other AQ conferences. in addition, both AFA and Navy are getting cold feet. Boise is still good to go, and SDSU could be BYU's replacement.if MWC loses 2, and wants to add 1 to get to 9, my money would be on SJSU, whose chancellor is also over SDSU and Fresno St. that would leave the WAC with Utah St.,Idaho,NMSU,UTSA,Tx.ST.,and La.Tech.Drop Utah St.and Idaho,throw in UNT,A-State and ULL, and you could have a workable[but far from perfect] Western Division of a 14 football playing BIG BELT CONFERENCE.i realize this does not get us to where we want to go[CUSA], but it would create a regional division.having said that, this is not my Christmas wish, but its not a rock in a sock either.

hickoryhouse · November 22, 2011

Unfortunately none of this surprises me. That being said our task at hand still doesn't change and that is trying to win and improve our overalll athletic program as much as possible e.g. renovating super pit, adding baseball etc.

Not getting a CUSA invite still doesn't prevent us from winning games, winning our conference and even going to bowl games. If these things happen then better conferences will come calling.

Best post on the subject, topic, thread ever. That's exactly right. Our AD is out there pimpin us like he is supposed to, the rest is up to forces outside our control for the moment. We can win, win consistently and maybe once in a while win a big game or five!

Our university is doing what it can to move to a different conference, if it doesn't happen this year it isn't over. We still play a season, we still have the opportunity to improve and the opportunity to change our reputation.

Let's keep building up out facilities, keep our kick ass basketball team kick ass, build a football program again and lets see what happens! We have a great university, a new conference would be great but not changing now doesn't preclude us from moving up later.

Got5onIt · November 23, 2011

I'm very surprised over this. I don't see the advantages of a conference merge? Will they have to share TV revenue? The MWC never had a title game, so CUSA is willing to add more teams to that payout?

This doesn't seem very well thought out. More of a desperation move by the two conferences, IMO.

NorthTexan95 · November 23, 2011

They r not going to b n DFW or Florida....Better check with the recruiting coordinators !!

That will only help Sun Belt teams to out recruit them.

Hunter Green · November 23, 2011

So you want us to go backwards? First, NMSU and La Tech wont join the belt and why on earth would we want Tx St and UTSA in our conference?

My point is that if we get left out of the next round of re-alignment, the Belt should be proactive and invite those schools that have some regional interest. Butts in seats is the name of the game and I believe UTSA and TX St fans would travel better than the "eastern" Belt teams currently do to Denton. It's better than standing pat, IMHO.

untgeorge · November 23, 2011

My point is that if we get left out of the next round of re-alignment, the Belt should be proactive and invite those schools that have some regional interest. Butts in seats is the name of the game and I believe UTSA and TX St fans would travel better than the "eastern" Belt teams currently do to Denton. It's better than standing pat, IMHO.

We have played TxSt 36 times over the years and they have never traveled well.

SilverEagle · November 23, 2011

We have played TxSt 36 times over the years and they have never traveled well.

That wasn't my observation the last four or five times that they came to Fouts before we ended the series in 1994. We had a significant number of Tx St. fans in attendance at those games.

untjim1995 · November 23, 2011

That wasn't my observation the last four or five times that they came to Fouts before we ended the series in 1994. We had a significant number of Tx St. fans in attendance at those games.

Actually, the last two times they played here, in 1991 and 1993, we didn't have much of a crowd to speak of at all. The 1993 game was homecoming, so it was our annual game that drew over 10k during the Parker years. In 1991, SWT came here and we played in a monsoon, which SWT pounded us. The attendance that day was announced at around 7 or 8k, but it wasn't remotely close to that because of the weather.

All that said, I believe that they would bring a good showing up here now that we are both FBS. They have brought decent crowds to SMU, TCU, and UH in recent years, so they probably would for a game in Denton, too. Really, if we hve played them more than anyone in our program's history, we should get back to playing them regularly again--for lots of reasons.