BREAKING: NYTimes: Paterno is Out

LongJim · November 9, 2011

The comments at his "rally" tonight were sickening and disgusting.

http://deadspin.com/5857689/a-weeping-joe-paterno-just-spoke-to-students-gathered-outside-his-living-room-window

Saw this. I can't believe that Joe's anything but not fully stocked upstairs any more. Not to use any more hyperbole than belongs in this situation, but if this stuff unfolded as it has been presented, it's just a massive gut punch and shock on a personal level for anyone who wants to believe in the things that Paterno and Penn State preached for so long--and I admit I've admired Paterno for a long long time. It's just devastating.

And that doesn't begin to match the anguish one feels over what happened to those kids--which is obviously even more shattering.

Just crushes you. Even more so if you're a parent.

Edited November 9, 2011 by LongJim

oldguystudent · November 9, 2011

I admit I've admired Paterno for a long long time. It's just devastating.

A very similar thing went down in my high school, perpetrated by one of our most beloved and respected teachers, with one of my friends included among the victims. I spend years adamantly denying and defending the teachers and the school because I just wouldn't believe it.

Institutional cover ups, blood money paid out, one faculty suicide. Twenty something years later, I still struggle to come to terms with, and acknowledge, what one of the men whom I most respected had been doing systematically for many years. To be honest, I'm completely numb to the Penn St situation.

We want to throw stones, set fire to the stake, point fingers, and condemn. Having seen one of these situations go down from the inside, I can tell you that evil isn't always so clear, reactions to it not always so black and white when you're there in it.

Ultimately, yes. It is devastating. On the outrage front, the legal system will do its work, and beyond that, karma, God, spaghetti monsters, whatever you believe, will take care of things over the long haul. The rest of us are free to be shocked, hurt, devastated. But let's leave the pitchforks and torches to those entities trained to use them.

Green Mean · November 9, 2011

Penn State will have a few down years but they aren't going anywhere and donations will NOT fall off a cliff. I don't think people realize they sell out 106K every home game. They are WAY WAY too big and too good to go anywhere. Again they'll have a down period in football but they'll be back.

On a side not the front runner to replace JoePa has now become Urban Meyer. The courage boys this morning said that there is a mutual interest between them. If they get Meyer the program will be fine in a few years.

PlummMeanGreen · November 9, 2011

This whole thing reeks and will cost some people their futures, careers and marriages, too, especially those who did not report what they were too scared to report.

Joe-Pa will have to end an illustrious career in a way that almost makes you want to cry for him, but you have to report this kind of stuff because about 20 kids who were affected will probably now spend the rest of their lives in and out of counseling offices. Some of these 20 kids will even blame themselves for this happening and hopefully don't go to extremes.

If America could just get its hormones in check, many would still be married to their first spouse and divorce lawyers would soon go out of business. I could write a book on that.

This whole thing reeks...

Edited November 9, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

Green Oracle · November 9, 2011

After reading numerous accounts and thoughts on news sites and message boards, this is basically what I think happened.

The first time anything suspicious involving Sandusky came to PSU's attentions seems to have been 1998. Here is what the choices were.

1.Bring it into light, arrest Jerry, take the huge massive PR hit
2.Cover it up and let father time whittle it away

I think they did number one BECAUSE of Joe Paterno. So ego driven and known for doing things the right way, JopePa couldn't stand that this happened under his watch all these years. He also didn't want to believe that one of his best friends was a sexual predator, probably only half way believing it himself (how many times do relatives of major cons try to ignore all warning signs....all the time).

He didn't want anyone to know about his failure to see the dark side of his best buddy. So they agreed with Jerry they wouldn't bring charges AND allow him to keep up the lifestyle for his silence. All lead by Paterno. Paterno is the key leader in this. I think he had all intentions to retire after 1999 (it was really all over the news that he was looking to retire soon if you recall) and turn the reigns to Jerry. But when this came out,obviously that plan was dumped. After Jerry "retired", Penn State football basically collapses. They go through a couple of 5 win seasons (and people start saying he's over the hill) with only one winning year over a four year stretch.

Paterno, who stayed on due to the scandal, was burnt out, and didn't really wanna keep on. But he must stay on as head coach because now he has no hand picked successor. So he reorganizes in 2004 and overhauls his staff making them take on more and more responsibility, as he slips further and further into the father figure figurehead.

All this time Paterno holds the dark secret. That's why it has looked the last few years like he would die on the job. Now he trusts no one to take over his program, because his right hand for a generation burned him so badly.

My reading simultaneously makes Paterno look like a monster and sadly sympathetic.

CMJ, get over yourself. Joe Pa would've never been afraid of what you describe as a "massive PR hit". Ridiculous. The guy's such a winner, you think turning in a pedophile would damage him or Penn State? Joe did the right thing in reporting what was reported to him to his boss. The rules are the rules, and there are people who are in charge of enforcing those rules, and investigating claims of wrongdoing, and it's not the head football coach. That's when lawyers get involved. Lawyers and committees to discuss forming committees on when to have a meeting on topics to discuss committee agendas for the committe meetings.

Go write something stupid about Jerry Sandusky, not Joe Paterno. Pathetic.

CMJ · November 9, 2011

I thought I was pretty even handed Green Oracle. I got massive blowback from people thinking I was way too easy on Paterno.

Green Oracle · November 9, 2011

I just don't buy it. Joe Paterno would've done all that he could/should do in a situation like this. No evidence to support otherwise. I think if he was fully aware of what was going on, Joe Paterno would have done the right thing. I thing he was fooled, like alot of people. Can't blame him for that. But don't presume that he's guilty of a cover up...doesn't add up.

Green Mean · November 9, 2011

CMJ, get over yourself. Joe Pa would've never been afraid of what you describe as a "massive PR hit". Ridiculous. The guy's such a winner, you think turning in a pedophile would damage him or Penn State? Joe did the right thing in reporting what was reported to him to his boss. The rules are the rules, and there are people who are in charge of enforcing those rules, and investigating claims of wrongdoing, and it's not the head football coach. That's when lawyers get involved. Lawyers and committees to discuss forming committees on when to have a meeting on topics to discuss committee agendas for the committe meetings.
Go write something stupid about Jerry Sandusky, not Joe Paterno. Pathetic.

Legally Paterno is fine but morally not so much in my opinion. I'm sorry but you don't look the other way when your right hand man is sexually molesting young boys inside your own athletic facilities. He knew all along what was going on or what went on. I don't care if you're 24 or 84 years old...you don't handle it the way you do. NO EFFING EXCUSES HERE!

Green Oracle · November 9, 2011

And if anyone thinks that this is an isolated institutional incident, I would direct your attention to recent happenings (the last ten years...or more) with the Catholic church.

Or any other branch of Christianity...

Green Oracle · November 9, 2011

Legally Paterno is fine but morally not so much in my opinion. I'm sorry but you don't look the other way when your right hand man is sexually molesting young boys inside your own athletic facilities. He knew all along what was going on or what went on. I don't care if you're 24 or 84 years old...you don't handle it the way you do. NO EFFING EXCUSES HERE!

Joe Paterno didn't look the other way, and he didn't know "all along" what was going on. Based on what was reported to him, he did what he was supposed to do - report it to his boss. You can't expect anything else.

Look to Sandusky and his actions, not Joe Paterno's...

CMJ · November 9, 2011

I just don't buy it. Joe Paterno would've done all that he could/should do in a situation like this. No evidence to support otherwise. I think if he was fully aware of what was going on, Joe Paterno would have done the right thing. I thing he was fooled, like alot of people. Can't blame him for that. But don't presume that he's guilty of a cover up...doesn't add up.

Hey, I think he started off feeling like he did the right thing (pressuring Sandusky out in 1999). We're all speculating here aren't we? Things might have gotten out of control after the 2002 incident and then Paterno just hoped his superiors would take care of it, or it'd go away (or both).

I don't look at Paterno as a true villain by any stretch. Just as a normal guy that got caught up in crap, didn't wanna believe the bad stories about his good friend, and let things get out of hand.

But really none of us know jack.

LongJim · November 9, 2011

I just don't buy it. Joe Paterno would've done all that he could/should do in a situation like this. No evidence to support otherwise. I think if he was fully aware of what was going on, Joe Paterno would have done the right thing. I thing he was fooled, like alot of people. Can't blame him for that. But don't presume that he's guilty of a cover up...doesn't add up.

I didn't write the following, but it's a pretty concise picture. Yeah, Joe did the "legal" thing, but he didn't do the right thing.

***********************************************

"I can appreciate those who don't want to rush to judgment. I think 100% of the time, that is a very good approach. At this point though, I feel there's enough evidence to at least form a preliminary judgment. Here's what we know from the indictments & eye witness accounts.

Jerry Sandusky was investigated in 1998 after caught showering and touching the genitals of a young boy. During the investigation, a 2nd boy was found to have showered w/ Sandusky at the Penn State complex. Police notes show that Sandusky did admit to touching the genitals of one of the little boys to the boy's mother, in a conversation that was overheard by campus police. In addition, Sandusky confessed that he did shower w/ the young boy to Paterno & the AD directly, but said he was soaping him up, not fondling him. And, he admitted that it was wrong to shower w/ little boys (per the grand jury inquiry).

He was subsequently forced to resign, but received unlimited access to Penn State facilities & given an office. In 2000, a janitor at Penn State witnessed Sandusky performing oral sex on a young teen in the showers. (Paterno may or may not have known about that incident.)

In 2002, Mike McQueary, whom Paterno had coached and mentored since 18, and had recently hired as a Graduate Assistant, reported to Paterno that he witnessed Sandusky anally raping a 10 y/o boy. Paterno told his bosses, who told the President. None of them told police. Sandusky confessed that for the 2nd time, he did shower with a little boy in the Penn State locker room, both times well after hours, both times when nobody was supposed to be at the complex. They responded by barring Sandusky from bringing little boys into the Penn State facility.

However, Paterno continued to allow Sandusky to bring little boys to Penn State practices and other events. Most recently, Sandusky was arrested after a 2+ year investigation after a parent reported Sandusky had molested their son. He's currently been indicted with 40 counts of sexual assault/misconduct w/ a minor.

Now, Paterno wants us to believe that McQueary didn't tell him that he witnessed Sandusky anally raping a 10 y/o boy, and instead, simply told of some other story that involved a naked man & a 10 y/o boy WAY after hours in the wee hours of the night, showering at a facility that neither were supposed to be at.

Yet, that non-detailed account from McQueary, which involved dialog about a naked man and a naked 10 y/o boy, somehow didn't alarm Paterno......to the point that Paterno felt it important to alert police, or push his supervisors to alert police. (This coming on the heels of Sandusky's previous issues w/ sexual assault allegations, and subsequent resignation.) And on top of that, even though the grand jury investigation states that Paterno ADMITTED in sworn testimony that McQueary told him that Sandusky was anally raping a little boy, Paterno has come forward to say that McQueary's eye witness account wasn't detailed. And still further, he now claims he had no idea his Defensive Coordinator was investigated for sexual assault of a child in 1998 on the Penn State campus.

So, let's suppose that it's possible for your Defensive Coordinator to get caught showering and touching the genitals of a little boy in 1998, and somehow nobody told you.

And, let's assume that Paterno never asked why Sandusky was abruptly being pushed out the door after being the heir apparent to Paterno.

And, let's assume that McQueary......one day after watching a former coach anally rape a 10 y/o boy, some how managed to give such a benign account of what he saw, that Paterno didn't realize Sandusky had raped a child.

And let's assume it's a typo in the investigation notes, where it says that Paterno knew about Sandusky's 1998 pedo incident, that Sandusky admitted to showering w/ little boys on both occasions, and McQueary told him specifically that the 2002 boy was being sodomized.

Then tell me, if you were Paterno, what story would you need to be told about a grown man being naked with a 10 y/o boy in the wee hours of the evening, in a university complex he wasn't supposed to be in, for you to think it wasn't a big deal, didn't need to be reported to the police, and wasn't worth following up with supervisors (regarding resolution) or locating the boy to corroborate the account?

I'm just curious what "he was naked w/ a little boy in the showers late at night" story McQueary could have told you that would be plausible and acceptable to you, to such an extent, that you felt the only thing that needed to be done was tell your boss, then forget about it.

Now, let's layer on the fact that the tapes that recorded Sandusky & the little boy entering & walking through the office complex, purportedly holding hands were lost/misplaced/destroyed.

What? You didn't know there were tapes (as if any major university wouldn't have hidden cameras through out all of its most sensitive areas)? And, what do you think McQueary is going to say when he's asked why he didn't report a boy being anally raped to police? Do you think it might have to to do with a top-level desire to squelch the story, so as not to embarrass the university......which would force ALL members of Penn State to explain why THREE separate child sexual assault instances (before the '02 incident) weren't made public & why Penn State covered for a man that had been caught showering w/ a little boy, w/ his hands on his genitals TWICE, and giving oral sex to another young teen?

If someone can provide a plausible and SENSIBLE answer to the bold question, that'll be all I need to hear."

Edited November 9, 2011 by LongJim

Green Oracle · November 9, 2011

Hey, I think he started off feeling like he did the right thing (pressuring Sandusky out in 1999). We're all speculating here aren't we? Things might have gotten out of control after the 2002 incident and then Paterno just hoped his superiors would take care of it, or it'd go away (or both).

I don't look at Paterno as a true villain by any stretch. Just as a normal guy that got caught up in crap, didn't wanna believe the bad stories about his good friend, and let things get out of hand.

But really none of us know jack.

Maybe I'm getting a little worked up...guess I don't really know jack...and Jerry, for that matter...

UNT90 · November 9, 2011

I don't think people realize they sell out 106K every home game.

I don't think you realize that they haven't sold out their last 4 home games (and I believe a radio report said that this Saturday is the first sellout since opening day).

Penn St. is going to apparently damage their image and brand further by letting Joe Pa and McQuearey coach on Saturday. All the wrong moves being made in Happy Valley. It will cost them big time.

CMJ · November 9, 2011

In perhaps the weirdest (and potentially most scandalous angle so far) - the disappearance of the DA who originally pursued the Sandusky case. I really hope this is unrelated, but it does seem extremely fishy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html

foutsrouts · November 9, 2011

I didn't write the following, but it's a pretty concise picture. Yeah, Joe did the "legal" thing, but he didn't do the right thing.
***********************************************

"I can appreciate those who don't want to rush to judgment. I think 100% of the time, that is a very good approach. At this point though, I feel there's enough evidence to at least form a preliminary judgment. Here's what we know from the indictments & eye witness accounts.

Jerry Sandusky was investigated in 1998 after caught showering and touching the genitals of a young boy. During the investigation, a 2nd boy was found to have showered w/ Sandusky at the Penn State complex. Police notes show that Sandusky did admit to touching the genitals of one of the little boys to the boy's mother, in a conversation that was overheard by campus police. In addition, Sandusky confessed that he did shower w/ the young boy to Paterno & the AD directly, but said he was soaping him up, not fondling him. And, he admitted that it was wrong to shower w/ little boys (per the grand jury inquiry).

He was subsequently forced to resign, but received unlimited access to Penn State facilities & given an office. In 2000, a janitor at Penn State witnessed Sandusky performing oral sex on a young teen in the showers. (Paterno may or may not have known about that incident.)

In 2002, Mike McQueary, whom Paterno had coached and mentored since 18, and had recently hired as a Graduate Assistant, reported to Paterno that he witnessed Sandusky anally raping a 10 y/o boy. Paterno told his bosses, who told the President. None of them told police. Sandusky confessed that for the 2nd time, he did shower with a little boy in the Penn State locker room, both times well after hours, both times when nobody was supposed to be at the complex. They responded by barring Sandusky from bringing little boys into the Penn State facility.

However, Paterno continued to allow Sandusky to bring little boys to Penn State practices and other events. Most recently, Sandusky was arrested after a 2+ year investigation after a parent reported Sandusky had molested their son. He's currently been indicted with 40 counts of sexual assault/misconduct w/ a minor.

Now, Paterno wants us to believe that McQueary didn't tell him that he witnessed Sandusky anally raping a 10 y/o boy, and instead, simply told of some other story that involved a naked man & a 10 y/o boy WAY after hours in the wee hours of the night, showering at a facility that neither were supposed to be at.

Yet, that non-detailed account from McQueary, which involved dialog about a naked man and a naked 10 y/o boy, somehow didn't alarm Paterno......to the point that Paterno felt it important to alert police, or push his supervisors to alert police. (This coming on the heels of Sandusky's previous issues w/ sexual assault allegations, and subsequent resignation.) And on top of that, even though the grand jury investigation states that Paterno ADMITTED in sworn testimony that McQueary told him that Sandusky was anally raping a little boy, Paterno has come forward to say that McQueary's eye witness account wasn't detailed. And still further, he now claims he had no idea his Defensive Coordinator was investigated for sexual assault of a child in 1998 on the Penn State campus.

So, let's suppose that it's possible for your Defensive Coordinator to get caught showering and touching the genitals of a little boy in 1998, and somehow nobody told you.

And, let's assume that Paterno never asked why Sandusky was abruptly being pushed out the door after being the heir apparent to Paterno.

And, let's assume that McQueary......one day after watching a former coach anally rape a 10 y/o boy, some how managed to give such a benign account of what he saw, that Paterno didn't realize Sandusky had raped a child.

And let's assume it's a typo in the investigation notes, where it says that Paterno knew about Sandusky's 1998 pedo incident, that Sandusky admitted to showering w/ little boys on both occasions, and McQueary told him specifically that the 2002 boy was being sodomized.

Then tell me, if you were Paterno, what story would you need to be told about a grown man being naked with a 10 y/o boy in the wee hours of the evening, in a university complex he wasn't supposed to be in, for you to think it wasn't a big deal, didn't need to be reported to the police, and wasn't worth following up with supervisors (regarding resolution) or locating the boy to corroborate the account?

I'm just curious what "he was naked w/ a little boy in the showers late at night" story McQueary could have told you that would be plausible and acceptable to you, to such an extent, that you felt the only thing that needed to be done was tell your boss, then forget about it.

Now, let's layer on the fact that the tapes that recorded Sandusky & the little boy entering & walking through the office complex, purportedly holding hands were lost/misplaced/destroyed.

What? You didn't know there were tapes (as if any major university wouldn't have hidden cameras through out all of its most sensitive areas)? And, what do you think McQueary is going to say when he's asked why he didn't report a boy being anally raped to police? Do you think it might have to to do with a top-level desire to squelch the story, so as not to embarrass the university......which would force ALL members of Penn State to explain why THREE separate child sexual assault instances (before the '02 incident) weren't made public & why Penn State covered for a man that had been caught showering w/ a little boy, w/ his hands on his genitals TWICE, and giving oral sex to another young teen?

If someone can provide a plausible and SENSIBLE answer to the bold question, that'll be all I need to hear."

There is no sensible answer that I can see. Guess some people are heavy duty hero worshipers and cannot accept that their heroes can be so fallible. History has told us that people with huge amounts of power tend to screwup more than anyone. For Paterno's sake, hope he was going through a period of temporary amnesia, because anyone in his right mind should have reacted differently to that situation.

UNT90 · November 9, 2011

Maybe I'm getting a little worked up...guess I don't really know jack...and Jerry, for that matter...

I'll say.

Read a little more about this and you will find that Joe knew about the 1998 incident, knew about the 2002 incident, knew Sandusky was still bringing young male children on campus, to bowl games, and still ran a charity that gave Sandusky unfettered access to young boys, knew that the first incident (1998) had been buried by the DA, knew that the second incident (2002) had never been reported to police, and knew that Sandusky was still coming on the Penn St. campus as early as this year.

The absolute best thing you can say about Paterno is that he covered for a friend to protect his own legacy. The worst is that he willfully looked the other way while his football program was used to groom children for their eventual rape. Either way, not to flattering.

And if you think the AD or the VP of finance weilds more power in Happy Valley than good old Joe Pa, well, that's just naive.

Censored by Laurie · November 9, 2011

In perhaps the weirdest (and potentially most scandalous angle so far) - the disappearance of the DA who originally pursued the Sandusky case. I really hope this is unrelated, but it does seem extremely fishy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/questions-on-sandusky-wrapped-in-2005-gricar-mystery.html

OK...so it's not...in anyway, actually...but...and I'm sorry...really...like, really...but...

this story is awesome!

rcade · November 9, 2011

I just don't buy it. Joe Paterno would've done all that he could/should do in a situation like this. No evidence to support otherwise.

The evidence is his own grand jury testimony, where he said he was told that Sandusky was seen "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy" in the Penn State locker room showers.

He didn't do all that he could. He didn't make a single call to police, even as the weeks went by and the police never talked to him about the incident.

His career ending in shocking disgrace is entirely of his own making.

rcade · November 9, 2011

The rules are the rules, and there are people who are in charge of enforcing those rules, and investigating claims of wrongdoing, and it's not the head football coach.

Those people are called police, which is why you call them when somebody tells you he saw a child being raped by an adult in your team showers.