I think Hank and George hit it on the head

[Harry]

I really hate to sound like a broken record but doesn't the June Jones first season at SMU (where he went 1-11) situation parallel ours?

[untcampbell]

"Although given the fact that we have now lost 4 potential starters/contributors under this current staff I can see where it might be a safe prediction."

This doesn't make it any better for NT, but it does happen elsewhere...safe predictions are probably being made all over the UF board.

GAINESVILLE -- Citing a lack of playing time, tight end Gerald Christian and wide receiver Robert Clark will transfer from Florida.

The university and coach Will Muschamp announced their decisions Tuesday. Christian and Clark, both sophomores, went to Palm Beach Gardens Dwyer High before coming to Florida and playing limited roles.

“Both of these players have expressed a desire for more playing time and felt that it would be in their best interests to transfer,” Muschamp said. “We wish them both the best of luck and appreciate their contributions to the program.”

Nine players have left the program since Muschamp took over, and the Gators now have just 72 players on scholarship.

Christian caught a touchdown pass in the Kentucky game and had four catches for 72 yards this season. Clark did not have a catch this season. Both players practiced during the bye week, meaning their transfers came as a surprise to offensive coordinator Charlie Weis.

“We didn’t lose them; they decided to go,” Weis said. “You wish them well and you move on.”

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/26/2472082/two-players-transferring-from.html#ixzz1cHr7L3ct

For those that stay, and I am going to make a (safe) prediction that most will, I appreciate the effort you guys put into this thing. The equivalent effort, time and sacrifice of a full time job that all of our student athletes put into their respective sports, while juggling a little studying and classroom time, is to be admired.

Take a week to heal up, get better and FINISH!

GMG

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

After the loss to FIU, McCarney said, "No excuses." See the leeway we give him is of his own choosing. I give him credit for not being the wet-rag whiners that Dickey and Dodge were. But, still...this is the Sun Belt. Freaking Western Kentucky is on a four game winning tear in it!

Put the guys in there that give us a chance to win. I don't care who is left on the roster from the Dodge era, McNulty ain't the guy.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Maybe I missed it. Please point out where ONE poster here encouraged or asked any of our players to transfer?

Rick

A few years ago who was the TCU QB who sat on the bench for 4 years and his 5'th year of elgibility became a contributing factor to a TCU successful season? That is what I hope colleges see more of rather than "if I don't start I can always transfer." We beat Tennessee back in 1975 with our 3'rd string QB (Glen Ray?) as I recall. You always need more than just 2 QB's and if anyone should know that it is us with all our QB injuries in past years.

GMG!

[oldguystudent]

I really hate to sound like a broken record but doesn't the June Jones first season at SMU (where he went 1-11) situation parallel ours?

Yes, and that same vaunted June Jones, infallible as he is, got it handed to him 38-7 against Tulsa yesterday.

[Arkstfan]

Still, my problem with the Sun Belt is how grossly ignored this league is by the national media toward our top team(s) as far as generating interests to vote for any of them in the Top 25 polls. The MAC has even had a few Top 25 ranked teams in years past as compared to the 'Belt. Most of us always want our best team to break that drought.

UCF has been ranked once. They had to go 11-3 to do it. Tulsa had to go 10-3.

The problem isn't the media and the Sun Belt, the problem is not producing 10 and 11 game winners. When we have an 11-2 or 10-3 team not ranked, I'll worry that we have a problem compared to say CUSA.

[island eagle]

Please stop feeding the EXCUSE TRAIN around here. No one expected NT to win out but getting our asses kicked between our shoulder blades by three Sunbelt team's, including two that very few had on their radar as the next conference power, plus the fact that we have the leagues' highest paid, most experienced staff who had a top ranked running back to build upon with last years offensive coordinator having a year on campus, also, is inexcusable.

Here's where two of the so called experts had the team's picked at preseason.

Phil Steele:

ASU 4th

UNT 6th

ULL 8th

The Sporting News:

UNT 3rd

ASU 8th

ULL 9th

We come out and beat the conferences' top defense at home one week with a bare cupboard. The next we can't even hardly get a first down. There's a reason this team stinks it up on the road, and player talent has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Rick

Exactly what is it then? Bad habits from the past few years? It sure looks like that to me. This team has spent the last 4 years playing passive, unmotivated. lazy football and you expect the team to be transformed in half a season?

[island eagle]

Yes, and that same vaunted June Jones, infallible as he is, got it handed to him 38-7 against Tulsa yesterday.

In fact to read their fan board, all the experts there think they know better than everyone else, including the coaches. Lots of armchair generals in this world.

[Arkstfan]

Please stop feeding the EXCUSE TRAIN around here. No one expected NT to win out but getting our asses kicked between our shoulder blades by three Sunbelt team's, including two that very few had on their radar as the next conference power, plus the fact that we have the leagues' highest paid, most experienced staff who had a top ranked running back to build upon with last years offensive coordinator having a year on campus, also, is inexcusable.

Here's where two of the so called experts had the team's picked at preseason.

Phil Steele:

ASU 4th

UNT 6th

ULL 8th

The Sporting News:

UNT 3rd

ASU 8th

ULL 9th

We come out and beat the conferences' top defense at home one week with a bare cupboard. The next we can't even hardly get a first down. There's a reason this team stinks it up on the road, and player talent has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Rick

A top running back vs ???

10 returning defensive starters?

A junior QB with loads of experience blowing up the school record book?

Three receivers with 5 TD's and another who transferred in who was a 4 star?

There are no objective facts to support the idea UNT entered this season with talent equalling ASU or ULL.

UNT got almost the same yards against ASU as last year, but ASU is more experienced on defense from last year and plays a more aggressive scheme. ASU now has two years in Freeze's offense and he was hired four weeks before spring drills last year when offensive coordinator Clay Helton quit late to go to USC.

[Censored by Laurie]

Maybe I missed it. Please point out where ONE poster here encouraged or asked any of our players to transfer?

Rick

Does Michael Sturns count?

[Green P1]

Does Michael Sturns count?

he never has

[FirefightnRick]

A top running back vs ???

10 returning defensive starters?

A junior QB with loads of experience blowing up the school record book?

Three receivers with 5 TD's and another who transferred in who was a 4 star?

There are no objective facts to support the idea UNT entered this season with talent equalling ASU or ULL.

UNT got almost the same yards against ASU as last year, but ASU is more experienced on defense from last year and plays a more aggressive scheme. ASU now has two years in Freeze's offense and he was hired four weeks before spring drills last year when offensive coordinator Clay Helton quit late to go to USC.

Yeah and North Texas now has two years in Canales' offense. So what?

Again, I've never claimed to expect us to win out this year. But there is no excuse to be down by 31, and really came within a late first half turnover from being down by 38 at half, to an ASU team that was a pre season bottom pick in the conference.

Rick

Edited October 31, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[untjim1995]

Yeah and North Texas now has two years in Canales' offense. So what?

Again, I've never claimed to expect us to win out this year. But there is no excuse to be down by 31, and really came within a late first half turnover from being down by 38 at half, to an ASU team that was a pre season bottom pick in the conference.

Rick

Who cares about Preseason Rankings in late October, especially for a non-AQ like the SBC? Those are made in July or August based off of some media guy's best guess. Arkansas State and ULL are damn good teams, about as good as the SBC has thrown out there over the last 5 years. I agree we shouldn't get crushed like this, but you act like Arkansas State should just suck because Phil Steele picked them to finish poorly in a conference that most will admit that they only cover because they have to. I think ArkStFan is dead-on about the difference Hugh Freeze has over Dan McCarney right now. Steve Roberts was a good coach--frankly, I am still surprised they fired him--Todd Dodge was the worst FBS coach of all-time. Sure Chico was here last year, but the recruiting here, especially last year with Dodge in limbo, was bad, just as it turned out to be in all of his years and in Dickey's last two. Same goes for ULL's coaching situation. We recruited like we were going to play District 7-5A or whatever Southlake Carroll plays. The SBC gets talent, especially at some of these schools where academics are less stringent (Troy). Our lines are as weak as Coach Mac has ever seen, which makes our Defensive improvement even more amazing. Our QB and WR situation is just awful, and has been for a long time here. The mindset of "this is the highest paid coaching staff ever at UNT, so we should be winning right now" is very short-sighted. We got Coach Mac because we are making a commitment to him to build this thing up from the ashes. Believe it or not, he has already done that, just by winning 3 games. I said it before and I will say it again, if he gets this bunch to 5 or more wins this year, he should be SBC Coach of the Year. He will have done something amazing in a very short amount of time. And if we are going to stick to preseason predictions, let's take a look at the prediction from the guy who sees us everyday--Brett Vito said we would go 3-9. That looks pretty accurate right now.

[houstonmeangreen]

Please stop feeding the EXCUSE TRAIN around here. No one expected NT to win out but getting our asses kicked between our shoulder blades by three Sunbelt team's, including two that very few had on their radar as the next conference power, plus the fact that we have the leagues' highest paid, most experienced staff who had a top ranked running back to build upon with last years offensive coordinator having a year on campus, also, is inexcusable.

Here's where two of the so called experts had the team's picked at preseason.

Phil Steele:

ASU 4th

UNT 6th

ULL 8th

The Sporting News:

UNT 3rd

ASU 8th

ULL 9th

We come out and beat the conferences' top defense at home one week with a bare cupboard. The next we can't even hardly get a first down. There's a reason this team stinks it up on the road, and player talent has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Rick

I really can't comment on the 2nd half....UNT sucked Soooooo bad in the first half, I cut the game off and watch USC/Stanford game. There is a huge problem with this offense, special teams and the def secondary....I just don't see any changes or adjustments...this is Dan Mac's team, so where are the adjustments? Perhaps the lack of talent in these areas resides in the coaches, and less in the players. This looks alot like the UNT of the past, with a win/loss record to go with it.....sad.

[FirefightnRick]

Who cares about Preseason Rankings in late October, especially for a non-AQ like the SBC?

Those are made in July or August based off of some media guy's best guess.

Arkansas State and ULL are damn good teams, about as good as the SBC has thrown out there over the last 5 years.

I agree we shouldn't get crushed like this,but you act like Arkansas State should just suck because Phil Steele picked them to finish poorly in a conference that most will admit that they only cover because they have to.

I think ArkStFan is dead-on about the difference Hugh Freeze has over Dan McCarney right now.

Steve Roberts was a good coach--frankly, I am still surprised they fired him--Todd Dodge was the worst FBS coach of all-time. Sure Chico was here last year,

but the recruiting here, especially last year with Dodge in limbo, was bad, just as it turned out to be in all of his years and in Dickey's last two. Same goes for ULL's coaching situation. We recruited like we were going to play District 7-5A or whatever Southlake Carroll plays.

The SBC gets talent, especially at some of these schools where academics are less stringent (Troy).

Our lines are as weak as Coach Mac has ever seen, which makes our Defensive improvement even more amazing.

Our QB and WR situation is just awful, and has been for a long time here.

The mindset of "this is the highest paid coaching staff ever at UNT, so we should be winning right now" is very short-sighted.

We got Coach Mac because we are making a commitment to him to build this thing up from the ashes. Believe it or not, he has already done that, just by winning 3 games.

I said it before and I will say it again, if he gets this bunch to 5 or more wins this year, he should be SBC Coach of the Year. He will have done something amazing in a very short amount of time. And if we are going to stick to preseason predictions, let's take a look at the prediction from the guy who sees us everyday--Brett Vito said we would go 3-9. That looks pretty accurate right now.

Pre season rankings simply give us something to go by when this thing gets started. I never claimed they are scientific. But if they don't matter then they would never be mentioned when the post season awards are handed out when an expected bottom feeder finishes at the top. "...What an amazing season they had, and to think they were picked to finish near the bottom...blah blah blah".

Isn't Brett Vitto a media guy as well? I think he is.

ASU and ULL are good teams, and we are now finding out they also have two pretty good coaches.

Again, I agree, we shouldn't get crushed by what could have easily been 38-0 in the first half. Our defense, coached by a defensive minded coach, who also happens to have a third year at North Texas D line coach, did a Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde from one week at home to another on the road. Most concerning to me.

Roberts was a decent coach at ASU and a great one at Northwestern State Louisiana, who took the Demons? into Amon Carter back in '2001 and got a win against TCU. Bustle was a terrible coach at ULL and was on the hot seat nearly every year the past 4 or 5 years. But apparently both men had some future All WORLD players who were mesmerized at the thought of playing for a .500 or below college team in the Sunbelt, all stored away in a public storage unit for their replacements to discover?

Dodge's recruiting situation in regards to his future employment wasn't any worse than Roberts or Bustle. Again, all three were on the hot seat the past two. But neither of the latter had nearly as much to sell to recruits as Dodge, Canales and Nelson did.

True, Troy has lower academic standards. How's that working out for them this year? Great players don't coach themselves. Maybe it's time Blakeney moved on? I hope he stays.

Are our lines weak or are they improved? Which is it? Maybe they play improved football at home and are weak on the road? Either way, they are coached by a third year coach here, and they and the defense seem to have a problem when on the road although it didn't seem to bother them as much in the first half at Alabama as it did at ASU? Which leads to me to thinking that Roberts must have also out recruited Saban some time back as well? WOW!

Our QB situation is no where nearly as bad as it was at this time last year with us having to play our 4th string quarterback who had a hard cast on his non throwing hand and had nerve damage in his throwing elbow, leading a team that was missing what, 14 starters due to injury? And we still won or were at least competitive in the final 5 games and held a halftime lead against K State.

I guess you missed it where I NEVER said we have the highest paid staff so therefore we should be winning right now? Rather I pointed out that it is inexcusable to be getting blown out by three Sunbelt teams?

I'm not sure McCarney would get Coach of the Year for getting us to 5 wins or not, considering he inherited a team that was playing some pretty salty ball towards the end of last year. But he certainly would be recognized for the improvements and I would imagine our preseason rankings would get a mention in there somewhere?

Rick

Edited October 31, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[TIgreen01]

At what point in the game did we lose Orr? Was he lost before the 2nd quarter?

I never thought we'd be competitive with ASU. Their defense went into the UNT game ranked top 30 in almost every category. Having watched them against FIU, I can tell you that that is mostly due to the talent and depth that they have in their front 7. Getting blown out sucks, but that ASU team is a MUCH better team than UNT, at this point. I don't know what you've been watching if you think otherwise. What would have been a STAR Juco signing for us (DT, Ronnell Wright) doesn't even start for them!

I wonder, if McCarney plays Osborn (at least in garbage time against ASU and starts him, or gives significant PT, against Tulsa) instead of McNulty, does anyone have even one legit criticism of the job done so far this year?

[NT03]

So If ASU already has so much more talent and Freeze is a good coach , does that mean we will never beat them again as long as he is there ? Or is this going to be a 6 to 7 year process ?

Edited October 31, 2011 by NT03

[GrandGreen]

Who cares about Preseason Rankings in late October, especially for a non-AQ like the SBC? Those are made in July or August based off of some media guy's best guess. Arkansas State and ULL are damn good teams, about as good as the SBC has thrown out there over the last 5 years. I agree we shouldn't get crushed like this, but you act like Arkansas State should just suck because Phil Steele picked them to finish poorly in a conference that most will admit that they only cover because they have to. I think ArkStFan is dead-on about the difference Hugh Freeze has over Dan McCarney right now. Steve Roberts was a good coach--frankly, I am still surprised they fired him--Todd Dodge was the worst FBS coach of all-time. Sure Chico was here last year, but the recruiting here, especially last year with Dodge in limbo, was bad, just as it turned out to be in all of his years and in Dickey's last two. Same goes for ULL's coaching situation. We recruited like we were going to play District 7-5A or whatever Southlake Carroll plays. The SBC gets talent, especially at some of these schools where academics are less stringent (Troy). Our lines are as weak as Coach Mac has ever seen, which makes our Defensive improvement even more amazing. Our QB and WR situation is just awful, and has been for a long time here. The mindset of "this is the highest paid coaching staff ever at UNT, so we should be winning right now" is very short-sighted. We got Coach Mac because we are making a commitment to him to build this thing up from the ashes. Believe it or not, he has already done that, just by winning 3 games. I said it before and I will say it again, if he gets this bunch to 5 or more wins this year, he should be SBC Coach of the Year. He will have done something amazing in a very short amount of time. And if we are going to stick to preseason predictions, let's take a look at the prediction from the guy who sees us everyday--Brett Vito said we would go 3-9. That looks pretty accurate right now.

I am not ready to even think about McCarney being a poor hire, way to soon for that; but on the other hand I am not into Vito mode. There is no talent here so we should be happy with three wins and give McCarney a life time contract if he wins 5. I think it is foolish to think there is no talent deferential between Belt teams but at the same time it is not a great disparity. The facts are that under Dodge and interim Canales, NT went 3-5 in the Belt last year. Beating MTSU, WKU and FAU with losses to ULL by 1, Troy by 6, ULM by 12, ASU by 5 and the most lopsided loss to FIU by 24.

Some how according to Vito and others, there has been a major drop in talent from last year to this even with the severe injury problems NT faced last year. Never mind that Dodge according to at least Vito could not recruit, therefore I am not sure were all that talent came from. NT lost Jackson, Atkinson, and Robinson on defense but returns about everyone else. The linebackers and defensive backs are better than last year and the defensive line is at least as good. The De's are definitely better and Cantly and Boutwell are not that big a downgrade from last year.

The offense losses proved to be more severe but a lot of that is due thus far to NT not being able to get a QB who is near as good as the oft injured Dodge. This I would categorize more as a coaching problem than a talent gap. Likewise the offensive line lost some good players but did return four players who started at some time last year in Adedipe, Fortenberry, Tomlinson, and Freeley. The fact that a couple of these guys were beaten out by freshmen does not register as a talent problem.. WRs are weaker than last year due to the dismissal of Carey, nothing else, I am not sure that is a talent issue either.

The biggest problem NT faces right now is that they do not have an established QB or in fact any one who has thus far showed the potential to be one. The same issue they had last year. I think ASU was a much more talented team but I don't believe the next three opponents are. As bad a coach as Dodge was, he did a descent job recruiting particularly with his record. Before you thrash the talent too much, consider where Orr, Phillips, Boutwell, Akpunku, Dunbar, Tomlinson, Chancellor came from. NT doesn't have great Belt talent but it is better than the away Belt record indicates.