Editorial: SMU poised to return to big-time college football

Harry · October 20, 2011

Two months ago, SMU President R. Gerald Turner and athletic director Steve Orsini led a delegation to this newspaper, asking our support for what sounded like a Quixotic mission.

If the Big 12 Conference planned to expand, they said, SMU wanted in.

Two months can seem like two lifetimes amid the rapidly shifting tectonic plates of big-time college athletics. In August, remember, Texas A&M was still trying to break free from the Big 12, and TCU was headed to the Big East Conference.

Much was up in the air, and it was tough to hear over all the noise. In tighter focus, SMU’s pitch: “However this shakes out, we want to be in a conference that automatically qualifies to the Bowl Championship Series. The Big 12 makes the most sense regionally, but it’s not the only way.”

Indeed not.

Now, SMU is poised to accept membership to the automatic-qualifying Big East, which went shopping after Syracuse and Pittsburgh fled and TCU flipped to the Big 12. It appears to have settled on SMU, Houston and Central Florida for all sports and Boise State, Air Force and Navy for football only.

read more:

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20111020-editorial-smu-poised-to-return-to-big-time-college-football.ece

PlummMeanGreen · October 21, 2011

One thing about it, the Big East has taken serious attendance averages and winning seasons over the last quarter of a century off the table for its criteria; nevertheless and with the Big East apparent criteria for admission which they (with SMU) are going to predicate on the potential card .............then at that point shouldn't it boil down to how large a schools entire constituency (enrollment and alumnus numbers in the market said school is headquartered) and............ which school therefore might just have more potential and (ultimately) more TV sets among its present constituency should be considerred? The Big East criteria includes none of the aforementioned.

North Texas still has a ways to go, but even when we finally hit it with all pistons running but using the Big East criteria to add schools, it is most obvious they could care less for schools meeting the criteria of any of the schools they lost to the ACC. Our timing in all this is (as usual) kicking our A$ but would it really matter anyhow? It will with CUSA or the MWC who will probably use stronger criteria than the Big East to add schools if they add any at all.

Remember Old Hiring Practices of Days Gone By? The Big East did like many employers used to do when they hired on one's reputation; that is a reputation they've taken as truth from someone elses biased feelings trying to get their friend a job. Yet with that potential new employee who might have slipped dramatically in recent years to the degree of ineffectiveness? Yet the employer w/o checking that person's resume' hires them anyway and will find out later they what they really have done (for better or worse) once that employees is on the payroll.

IMO, SMU cannot touch North Texas and our entire athletic plant much of which is based at the Mean Green Village with Apogee as our shining new buckle. Ford Stadium vs. Apogee? Close contest but Gil Brandt has already give us his papal blessing on Apogee as a cut above all similar sized stadiums; the Super Pit vs Moody Coliseum? No comparison even with enhancements that both schools have given their respective BB venues. Minor Sports? The Big East did not admit any new schools on minor sports. Case in point? Boise State will be a "football only" B.E school.

All the North Texas selling points below not many schools (and even some projected to become new members in the Big East) just cannot equal.

* North Texas Is The 4'th Largest University In Texas (projected from studies by the Texas Higher

Education Coordinating Board, Austin, to become the 2'nd or 3'rd largest university in the Lone Star State).

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Our Opponents Have Convenient Airport Access To The UNT Campus :

*DFW Airport: 35 minutes from UNT campus

*Alliance Airport (near TX Motor Speedway) 20 minutes from UNT campus

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's A Numbers Game--Always Has Been .

Wouldn't Such Numbers As Those Listed Below Translate To Good TV Ratings In The 4'th Largest TV Market In America?

If North Texas has more in its constituency, might then North Texas have more TV sets (of which Nielsen TV ratings begin there) in the homes of that constituency than others which much smaller numbers--some even dramatically smaller?

North Texas Metroplex....Approx 7 million population in 5 county area which includes Denton County...Home County of the University of North Texas.

*Denton County Pop: Approx. 700,000

*City of Denton Pop: Approx, 120,000

*UNT Enrollment: Approx. 37,000

*North Texas Exes in the North Texas Metroplex: Approx. 100,000

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Some of North Texas' Home Football Battles In The Modern Era of the NCAA (Fouts Field, Texas Stadium & Apogee Stadium):

Boise St. Army, Navy, Houston, Texas A&M (approx 50,000 Att.), Baylor, Oklahoma State, Brigham Young U, Utah State, Oregon State, Kansas St.,

San Diego State U, Mississippi State, TCU, Rice, Texas Tech, Vanderbilt U , Florida State, UTEP, New Mexico, Indiana (first win at our new Apogee Stadium),

SMU (with 4 home and homes games starting in 2013) Tulsa U, U of Memphis, Louisville, U of Cincinatti,

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

North Texas Biggest Win In Football HistoryVersus the University of Tennessee Volunteers (UT finished 6 & 5 that season))

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

ESPN Video Clip of Apogee Stadium Grand Opening

http://proxy.espn.go.com/blog/dallas/col...to-houston

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The University of North Texas Fabulous Super Pit : Our "ageless" 10,000 plus seat on campus basketball venue:

http://www.stadiumjourney.com/stadiums/t...-pit-s588/

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Some of the University of North Texas' Rich & Famous Alums :

http://www.unt.edu/famous-alums.htm

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Link To UNT's Apogee Stadium: 31,000 capacity now but expandable up to 50,000 seats & still not a bad seat in the house:

http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArtic...=205251642

GMG!

Edited October 21, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

Comet7745 · October 21, 2011

One thing about it, the Big East has taken serious attendance averages and winning seasons over the last quarter of a century off the table for its criteria; nevertheless and with the Big East apparent criteria for admission which they (with SMU) are going to predicate on the potential card .............then at that point shouldn't it boil down to how large a schools entire constituency (enrollment and alumnus numbers in the market said school is headquartered) and............ which school therefore might just have more potential and (ultimately) more TV sets among its present constituency should be considerred? The Big East criteria includes none of the aforementioned.

North Texas still has a ways to go, but even when we finally hit it with all pistons running but using the Big East criteria to add schools, it is most obvious they could care less for schools meeting the criteria of any of the schools they lost to the ACC. Our timing in all this is (as usual) kicking our A$ but would it really matter anyhow? It will with CUSA or the MWC who will probably use stronger criteria than the Big East to add schools if they add any at all.

Remember Old Hiring Practices of Days Gone By? The Big East did like many employers used to do when they hired on one's reputation; that is a reputation they've taken as truth from someone elses biased feelings trying to get their friend a job. Yet with that potential new employee who might have slipped dramatically in recent years to the degree of ineffectiveness? Yet the employer w/o checking that person's resume' hires them anyway and will find out later they what they really have done (for better or worse) once that employees is on the payroll.

IMO, SMU cannot touch North Texas and our entire athletic plant much of which is based at the Mean Green Village with Apogee as our shining new buckle. Ford Stadium vs. Apogee? Close contest but Gil Brandt has already give us his papal blessing on Apogee as a cut above all similar sized stadiums; the Super Pit vs Moody Coliseum? No comparison even with enhancements that both schools have given their respective BB venues. Minor Sports? The Big East did not admit any new schools on minor sports. Case in point? Boise State will be a "football only" B.E school.

All the North Texas selling points below not many schools (and even some projected to become new members in the Big East) just cannot equal.

* North Texas Is The 4'th Largest University In Texas (projected from studies by the Texas Higher
Education Coordinating Board, Austin, to become the 2'nd or 3'rd largest university in the Lone Star State).
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Our Opponents Have Convenient Airport Access To The UNT Campus :
*DFW Airport: 35 minutes from UNT campus
*Alliance Airport (near TX Motor Speedway) 20 minutes from UNT campus
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's A Numbers Game--Always Has Been .

Wouldn't Such Numbers As Those Listed Below Translate To Good TV Ratings In The 4'th Largest TV Market In America?

If North Texas has more in its constituency, might then North Texas have more TV sets (of which Nielsen TV ratings begin there) in the homes of that constituency than others which much smaller numbers--some even dramatically smaller?

North Texas Metroplex....Approx 7 million population in 5 county area which includes Denton County...Home County of the University of North Texas.
*Denton County Pop: Approx. 700,000
*City of Denton Pop: Approx, 120,000
*UNT Enrollment: Approx. 37,000
*North Texas Exes in the North Texas Metroplex: Approx. 100,000
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Some of North Texas' Home Football Battles In The Modern Era of the NCAA (Fouts Field, Texas Stadium & Apogee Stadium):
Boise St. Army, Navy, Houston, Texas A&M (approx 50,000 Att.), Baylor, Oklahoma State, Brigham Young U, Utah State, Oregon State, Kansas St.,
San Diego State U, Mississippi State, TCU, Rice, Texas Tech, Vanderbilt U , Florida State, UTEP, New Mexico, Indiana (first win at our new Apogee Stadium),
SMU (with 4 home and homes games starting in 2013) Tulsa U, U of Memphis, Louisville, U of Cincinatti,
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

North Texas Biggest Win In Football HistoryVersus the University of Tennessee Volunteers (UT finished 6 & 5 that season))
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

ESPN Video Clip of Apogee Stadium Grand Opening
http://proxy.espn.go.com/blog/dallas/col...to-houston
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The University of North Texas Fabulous Super Pit : Our "ageless" 10,000 plus seat on campus basketball venue:
http://www.stadiumjourney.com/stadiums/t...-pit-s588/
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Some of the University of North Texas' Rich & Famous Alums :
http://www.unt.edu/famous-alums.htm
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Link To UNT's Apogee Stadium: 31,000 capacity now but expandable up to 50,000 seats & still not a bad seat in the house:
http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArtic...=205251642

GMG!

Wow, you really care about stickin' it to SMU.

BigPonyFan · October 21, 2011

Wow, you really care about stickin' it to SMU.

Napolean Complex??

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=napoleon%20complex

Edited October 21, 2011 by BigPonyFan

rjmunthe · October 21, 2011

Napolean Complex??

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=napoleon%20complex

What do we have to be jealous about? The horrible fan base? The run down stadium? The horrible SMU reputation in the Metroplex?

UNTFan23 · October 21, 2011

Can we stop posting about that school over on some knoll so that they stop coming over here to attempt to talk trash?

Green Mean · October 21, 2011

What do we have to be jealous about? The horrible fan base? The run down stadium? The horrible SMU reputation in the Metroplex?

Our board cares enough about then that we probably create 5 or 6 threads a week involving them.

Run down stadium? Are you effing kidding me? Their stadium is every bit as nice as ours. Ours just happens to be like 10 or so years newer but they have a beautiful stadium just like ours.

I wouldn't call them a horrible fanbase...we need to look at our own backyard before saying that.

What bad reputation does SMU have? They have stereotypes just like UNT as does every single school.

BigPonyFan · October 21, 2011

Our board cares enough about then that we probably create 5 or 6 threads a week involving them.

Run down stadium? Are you effing kidding me? Their stadium is every bit as nice as ours. Ours just happens to be like 10 or so years newer but they have a beautiful stadium just like ours.

I wouldn't call them a horrible fanbase...we need to look at our own backyard before saying that.

What bad reputation does SMU have? They have stereotypes just like UNT as does every single school.

Thank you! As I've posted recently, I really do hope for good things to happen to UNT. PLEASE stop with the over-bloated sales pitch on why UNT is something that it isn't. UNT is making GREAT progress and UNT folks should be very proud. Be comfortable in your own skin and stop looking for SMU to slight you.

By the way Green Mean, please feel encouraged to become a regular on Ponyfans. You're a great and sensible poster!!! Good luck this weekend UNT!

Edited October 21, 2011 by BigPonyFan

GTWT · October 21, 2011

Congratulations to SMU on their move to the Big East. I hope you have great success and I expect you will.

I would rather Texas schools played Texas opponents in a Texas conference, but that ain't the way the game's played today. Kick butt.

God bless Texas!

Comet7745 · October 21, 2011

Congratulations to SMU on their move to the Big East. I hope you have great success and I expect you will.

I would rather Texas schools played Texas opponents in a Texas conference, but that ain't the way the game's played today. Kick butt.

God bless Texas!

A Texas-only conference would be pretty epic:

Texas

A&M

Texas Tech

TCU

Baylor

SMU

Rice

Houston

UNT

UTEP

Texas State

UTSA

Edited October 21, 2011 by Comet7745

rjmunthe · October 21, 2011

Our board cares enough about then that we probably create 5 or 6 threads a week involving them.

Run down stadium? Are you effing kidding me? Their stadium is every bit as nice as ours. Ours just happens to be like 10 or so years newer but they have a beautiful stadium just like ours.

I wouldn't call them a horrible fanbase...we need to look at our own backyard before saying that.

What bad reputation does SMU have? They have stereotypes just like UNT as does every single school.

Their stadium is outdated. The second they built the thing it looked twenty years old. It's completely unimpressive, and has not been up kept well.

Really? I don't see our football team writing angry columns into the Daily. We're also not 5-1 on the hinge of getting into an AQ conference. Say what you want about the Dickey years, if UNT was winning, we'd have 28K every game right now. Houston game proved this fan base is hankering for a winner.

Ask anyone in Dallas about SMU's reputation. They have a horrible attitude and swagger. It's mostly people who go to SMU and their horrible attitude; self-righteousness, that gets them on the wrong side of people. They act like they are on the level of Rice or an Ivy League college, when SMU is purely a school flowing with plenty of money but on the same level as us. The D/FW metroplex has a way higher opinion of UNT grads than SMU grads. Hell, my first year at UNT I didn't even realize SMU was in the Metroplex.

SMU is the most overrated school in Texas. Fact. I'd rather pay middle-level tuition for a mid-level college like UNT than pay upper-echelon tuition for a mid-level college like SMU.

Edited October 21, 2011 by rjmunthe

DJstars21 · October 21, 2011

Their stadium is outdated. The second they built the thing it looked twenty years old. It's completely unimpressive, and has not been up kept well.

Really? I don't see our football team writing angry columns into the Daily. We're also not 5-1 on the hinge of getting into an AQ conference. Say what you want about the Dickey years, if UNT was winning, we'd have 28K every game right now. Houston game proved this fan base is hankering for a winner.

Ask anyone in Dallas about SMU's reputation. They have a horrible attitude and swagger. It's mostly people who go to SMU and their horrible attitude; self-righteousness, that gets them on the wrong side of people. They act like they are on the level of Rice or an Ivy League college, when SMU is purely a school flowing with plenty of money but on the same level as us. The D/FW metroplex has a way higher opinion of UNT grads than SMU grads. Hell, my first year at UNT I didn't even realize SMU was in the Metroplex.

SMU is the most overrated school in Texas. Fact. I'd rather pay middle-level tuition for a mid-level college like UNT than pay upper-echelon tuition for a mid-level college like SMU.

Some of your points make sense, but why are you so angry man?

BigPonyFan · October 21, 2011

Their stadium is outdated. The second they built the thing it looked twenty years old. It's completely unimpressive, and has not been up kept well.

Really? I don't see our football team writing angry columns into the Daily. We're also not 5-1 on the hinge of getting into an AQ conference. Say what you want about the Dickey years, if UNT was winning, we'd have 28K every game right now. Houston game proved this fan base is hankering for a winner.

Ask anyone in Dallas about SMU's reputation. They have a horrible attitude and swagger. It's mostly people who go to SMU and their horrible attitude; self-righteousness, that gets them on the wrong side of people. They act like they are on the level of Rice or an Ivy League college, when SMU is purely a school flowing with plenty of money but on the same level as us. The D/FW metroplex has a way higher opinion of UNT grads than SMU grads. Hell, my first year at UNT I didn't even realize SMU was in the Metroplex.

SMU is the most overrated school in Texas. Fact. I'd rather pay middle-level tuition for a mid-level college like UNT than pay upper-echelon tuition for a mid-level college like SMU.

I direct this ONLY to rjmunthe (as most UNT fans are pretty level-headed). How about when you guys break the 500's in rankings we'll talk:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/94/best-colleges-10_Americas-Best-Colleges_State_22.html

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+7

http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/#p_1_s_arank_TX

rjmunthe · October 21, 2011

I direct this ONLY to rjmunthe (as most UNT fans are pretty level-headed). How about when you guys break the 500's in rankings we'll talk:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/94/best-colleges-10_Americas-Best-Colleges_State_22.html

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+7

http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/#p_1_s_arank_TX

And yet you reference the two most harshly criticized college rankings. Read up on Forbes' reliance on money in their rankings and nothing else. And the US News and World Report's reliance on biased polling. I hope you do realize that US News and World Report is the website that has The Ohio State University (aka one of the worst schools academically and as far as careers after graduation) at #55 on the best universities in the country. Go back to your hole.

Here's a few things to check up on for your reading:

http://poetsandquants.com/2011/02/11/malcolm-gladwell-trashes-college-rankings/

http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/mar/23/admissions-officers-question-rankings/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/survey-college-admissions-counselors-wary-of-us-news-rankings/2011/05/19/AF86rL7G_blog.html

http://www.nassp.org/Content.aspx?topic=56684

You should realize that The US News and World Report takes into consideration SAT, ACT, and scores of state sponsored standardized testing when judging.

Is it a coincidence that the one ranking website that rates UNT highly is what most college admission officers and high school counselors listen to most? I think not.

One last tidbit of information, Texas A&M has a higher acceptance rate than we do. Which is good for all the people who think UNT is a simple, vocational, "I didn't get into UT school." I picked UNT because I wanted to be a teacher. It's highly rated by what matters, and great in my field.

Edited October 21, 2011 by rjmunthe

BeanCounterGrad'03 · October 21, 2011

I direct this ONLY to rjmunthe (as most UNT fans are pretty level-headed). How about when you guys break the 500's in rankings we'll talk:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/94/best-colleges-10_Americas-Best-Colleges_State_22.html

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/page+7

http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/#p_1_s_arank_TX

BPF, you may want to use the messenger feature to take this arguement with rj to a more private setting...if not, you may end up making more enemies on this board (right or wrong). Just a suggestion.

BigPonyFan · October 21, 2011

BPF, you may want to use the messenger feature to take this arguement with rj to a more private setting...if not, you may end up making more enemies on this board (right or wrong). Just a suggestion.

Very very sound advice. My point wasn't to alienate anyone on this board (just splash a little water on rj...). My apologies.

As far as the validity of rankings, I totally agree that you need to take them with a grain of salt and be more cognizant of specific programs. There may be programs at UNT that are among the best...

My point was a rebuttal to his claim that there is a minimal perceptual gap (in fact UNT is better perceptually). I disagree -- knowing that is worth zilch on this board. Thanks to the kind UNT posters for keeping me honest.

Edited October 21, 2011 by BigPonyFan

DJstars21 · October 21, 2011

Very very sound advice. My point wasn't to alienate anyone on this board (just splash a little water on rj...). My apologies.

As far as the validity of rankings, I totally agree that you need to take them with a grain of salt and be more cognizant of specific programs. There may be programs at UNT that are among the best...

My point was a rebuttal to his claim that there is a minimal perceptual gap (in fact UNT is better perceptually). I disagree -- knowing that is worth zilch on this board. Thanks to the kind UNT posters for keeping me honest.

Good job retracting your statement. I have a pretty unbiased opinion seeing as most of my family attended SMU. I chose UNT because of my program of study, and my decision turned out wise professionally.

Those rankings you posted are exceptionally skewed, one had SMU ranked higher than UT which is a major falsehood.

No college rankings really hold sand nationally except for 1, that’s the AAU classification. I’m going to quote a previous poster for clarification.

“AAU: An organization of research universities focused on academic research. The AAU is made up of 59 universities in the US, only 34 of which are public and 2 universities are in Canada. In 2004, AAU members accounted for 58% of U.S. universities' research grants and contract income and 52% of all doctorates awarded in the United States. Since 1999, 43% of all Nobel Prize winners and 74% of winners at US institutions have been affiliated with an AAU university. The AAU acts as a lobbyist for its members for research funding for its members in Washington, D.C. AAU membership is by invitation only, which requires a three-fourths vote by the current 61 members. Invitations are considered periodically, based in part on an assessment of the breadth and quality of university programs of research and graduate education, as well as undergraduate education. Georgia Tech was the most recent member added in 2010. Before that Texas A&M and Stony Brook were the previous schools added back in 2001. The University of Nebraska was voted out this year and Syracuse withdrew prior to their impending dismissal, both due to a drop in research spending. The only AAU members in Texas are UT Austin, Texas A&M and Rice.”

There are only 3 true tier 1 institutions in Texas; UT, Rice, and A&M. Neither UNT nor SMU are one of them.

Moral of the story, pick your college based on your professional aspirations and the program geared toward them.

NM Green · October 22, 2011

This thread is so "Mine is bigger than yours."

I hope we move up in conference stature because that would make 3 solid upward moves by the Metroplex programs. I think that is great and we want amazing football to be played here. I have been to Amon Carter and SMU. Have we had any hidden ponies at Apogee on gameday? If so I welcome their outside thoughts.

This area is sports rich and we are only growing stronger!

GMG

Comet7745 · October 22, 2011

Moral of the story, pick your college based on your professional aspirations and the program geared toward them.

Amen, that's all that should really matter.

NThomas · October 22, 2011

What do we have to be jealous about? The horrible fan base? The run down stadium? The horrible reputation in the Metroplex?

People who live in glass houses...

Green Lantern · October 22, 2011

Their stadium is outdated. The second they built the thing it looked twenty years old. It's completely unimpressive, and has not been up kept well.

Really? I don't see our football team writing angry columns into the Daily. We're also not 5-1 on the hinge of getting into an AQ conference. Say what you want about the Dickey years, if UNT was winning, we'd have 28K every game right now. Houston game proved this fan base is hankering for a winner.

Ask anyone in Dallas about SMU's reputation. They have a horrible attitude and swagger. It's mostly people who go to SMU and their horrible attitude; self-righteousness, that gets them on the wrong side of people. They act like they are on the level of Rice or an Ivy League college, when SMU is purely a school flowing with plenty of money but on the same level as us. The D/FW metroplex has a way higher opinion of UNT grads than SMU grads. Hell, my first year at UNT I didn't even realize SMU was in the Metroplex.

SMU is the most overrated school in Texas. Fact. I'd rather pay middle-level tuition for a mid-level college like UNT than pay upper-echelon tuition for a mid-level college like SMU.

The problem with your argument is that you state that SMU is "the most overrated school in Texas" but your previous paragraphs contain nothing but opinion and conjecture.

We need to worry about solving UNT's problems, not what other institutions are doing. Why must we have 2-4 SMU related threads on the UNT football forum front page at all times? Maybe we can just create a Green P1 SMU Memorial Forum to house these riveting debates.

God I hate losing football seasons.