We Complain alot

[FirefightnRick]

How bout a team we actually beat two seasons ago, Ball State(2-10 in 2009 and 4-8 last year), who is currently 4-3 under first year coach Pete Limbo who came from Elon U?

Rick

Edited October 17, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[Greendylan]

It does concern me that we were ULL's biggest win of the year. Even Nicholls State was more competitive (both in terms of final score and stats).

Regarding the perception that we are undersized, there may be some validity. Average UNT starting offensive lineman weight: 302. ULL's starting offensive line: 311. However, our starting defensive front seven weighs 249 vs. ULL's 237. So, speed may be the bigger problem on defense. In reality, I think our offensive inconsistency is what's tiring out the defense more than a lack of BCS size.

[oldguystudent]

So, speed may be the bigger problem on defense.

If I were an opposing coach, I would use a 90% pass offense. The defensive line was playing lights out against the run. Secondary coverage has been almost as bad as 2008.

Edited October 17, 2011 by oldguystudent

[shaft]

So the sky is falling because we've lost to the best two teams in the conference?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

You keep talking about the fourth quarter. North Texas won both games where we led big in the fourth. A W is a W at this point. Who cares that it got a little ugly at the end?

Because we can watch teams like OU and Alabama and see their coaches chewing their players' asses off even when victory is at hand.

You see it constantly from Stoops and Saban's coaches. The defense will three and out the opponent, the fans will be loudly applauding...but, a coach will grab a player running to the sidelines and chew his ass out about something.

The point is, you can't let down. Part of Dickey and Dodge's problem was that they weren't intense about winning.

Look at Texas. Who were the most intense coaches on their staffs from 2005 - 2010. It was those two defensive coordinators, Gene Chizik and Will Muschamp. They're both gone, and so it Texas' intensity. Yes, they can still beat the snot out of Rice. But, that's not where Texas is supposed to earn its spurs.

Dan McCarney said himself after the Indiana game that the coaches cannot let what happened in the fourth quarter be acceptable. But, damn if it didn't happen again against FAU. Then, the bottom falls out on what had been a close, hard fought game at Lousiana.

Every defense player should live in fear of having his ass chewed out at any given time for playing out of position - even if the unit has just forced a three and out. You let a player get lazy and it will come back to bite him someday.

Stoops, Saban, Chizik...those guys do not let players take a play off...even with the game well in hand. They treat every play as a coachable moment - and, that's why they've all got tons of championship rings to show recruits. They coach with their hair on fire and their defenses play with their hair on fire for them for 60 minutes.

KA-POW!

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Mike Price - UTEP

Dennis Franchione - TCU and Alabama

Rick Stockstill - MT

Jerry Kill - Northern Illinois

Todd Graham - Rice

These are just to name a few but I am sure there are plenty more. It can be done. We're not in the Big 12.

Edit: Ty Willingham won 10 games at ND his first year when they won 5 games the year before.

Steve Kragthorpe - Tulsa

Bob Stoops - Oklahoma

Nick Saban - LSU

[greenminer]

I'd argue that those programs were not at our level of poor performance in the 5 years prior to Mac. We were the WORST football program in the country during Dodge's reign. The talent level at UTEP, TCU, Alabama, and yes even Rice was much greater for those coaches than ours this year for Mac.

I don't disagree entirely, but a couple counterpoints:

UTEP was pretty f'n terrible before they hired Price.

I think I read somewhere that they were the all-time losing-est D1 football program in Texas history? I think they also had 3 winning seasons in 30 years, rarely pulling off more than 3. I could be wrong.

Also, Buffalo was the laughing stock of college football for years until they hired Turner Gill. It took him a couple years, but they won a MAC title.

[meangreen]

Steve Kragthorpe - Tulsa

Bob Stoops - Oklahoma

Nick Saban - LSU

Those guys had success no doubt, but they also had a COMPLETELY different pool of talent to use from. Unfortunately we aren't that lucky so it is going to take Mac a FEW years to get this thing turned around. I know we're all sick of losing and I am too, but just because we're tired of losing doesn't mean that our fortunes are going to evolve overnight. It takes some freaking time at a place like North Texas. Who are we kidding? We have such a long way to go, but it can and will be done. Might be next year, might be 2 years from now.

[bleedgreen4ever]

Those guys had success no doubt, but they also had a COMPLETELY different pool of talent to use from. Unfortunately we aren't that lucky so it is going to take Mac a FEW years to get this thing turned around. I know we're all sick of losing and I am too, but just because we're tired of losing doesn't mean that our fortunes are going to evolve overnight. It takes some freaking time at a place like North Texas. Who are we kidding? We have such a long way to go, but it can and will be done. Might be next year, might be 2 years from now.

I'm tired of hearing this. Just take a darn look at ULL. There's your answer. Coach Mac will turn things around eventually, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have done better so far this year.

[eulessismore]

Mike Price - UTEP

Dennis Franchione - TCU and Alabama

Rick Stockstill - MT

Jerry Kill - Northern Illinois

Todd Graham - Rice

These are just to name a few but I am sure there are plenty more. It can be done. We're not in the Big 12.

Edit: Ty Willingham won 10 games at ND his first year when they won 5 games the year before.

Having lived in Seattle for a year in the late 1970's, I could hardly believe what I was reading about the deterioration of that program (I think the word "decrepitude came in) during the Wllingham regime. I'll never forget the look on the players faces on a photograph taken around the end of their winless year. Losing does things to people, players especially.

But I think Willingham is a good example of how someone who was right for one program (Stanford), and was right the first year at another (Notre Dame) before being the victim of high expectations in the second and third, but was really horrible at another from beginning to end (Washington).

I kinda wonder if someone shouldn't tale a page from Bill Walsh's playbook and do an analysis of coaching hires at Stanford, including to do; hire Bill Walsh, not to do, hire Bill Walsh again.

One thing to remember is that it's not just the coach, it's how they fit in with a particular school at the time.

Edited October 18, 2011 by eulessismore

[GreenMachine]

We complain a lot because we lose a lot.

[tylermeangreen]

So I'm guessing ULL's talent was MUCH better than ours as well?

Having been at the game, with no preconceived opinion prior to seeing LaLa play in that game, I would say yes - with the exception of their QB and punter, their talent was MUCH better!

[rcade]

Wow. You have a defeated mentality, which has permeated into many NT fans. This mentality pitiful, I think. I can assure you that those two games we had no idea how to kill the game when it should have been done, and it translated into yesterday's horrible 4th quarter performance. A team will never be able to win consistently if it doesn't know how to play in the 4th quarter. We got lucky we won those two games. Might sound harsh, but that's exactly the type of mentality this program needs in order to start learning how to truly win. Yesterday's game was completely winnable.

I have a defeated mentality because I know how to appreciate a win in a coach's first season? Brilliant psychoanalysis, Dr. Freud. How much do I owe you?

There are very few football programs that go from years of endemic losing to solid wins overnight. Instead, they learn to win by scraping out Ws any way they can -- even by taking big leads and almost blowing them in the fourth -- and this gives them confidence they build on later.

I never said the last game wasn't winnable. I said the presumption that we would win was excessively optimistic. Go back to your psychology textbooks and see if you can figure out the difference.

[meangreen]

I'm tired of hearing this. Just take a darn look at ULL. There's your answer. Coach Mac will turn things around eventually, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have done better so far this year.

We're all tired of hearing it, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. Mac is only human, believe it or not, and he can only work with what he has been given. He can't go out and bring in new players during the middle of the season to start winning games. It's a gradual process. It doesn't matter that you're "tired" or hearing it, that's the way it has to be.

[Green Mean]

Those guys had success no doubt, but they also had a COMPLETELY different pool of talent to use from. Unfortunately we aren't that lucky so it is going to take Mac a FEW years to get this thing turned around. I know we're all sick of losing and I am too, but just because we're tired of losing doesn't mean that our fortunes are going to evolve overnight. It takes some freaking time at a place like North Texas. Who are we kidding? We have such a long way to go, but it can and will be done. Might be next year, might be 2 years from now.

I don't buy that argument because if they had a different pool of talent, then they were competing against a different level pool of talent as well with the teams in their conference. Yes we might have some ways to go but there are plenty of success stories that have turned it around their first year.

I belive I heard Mac say he wants to build this program into complete 4-5 year players(which is fine) but as of now with all this realignment stuff going on I don't think we have that much time. I think a quick turnaround is quite necessary for the future of our program. We have this season and next to really make a statement otherwise we will continue to be like Akron and we may be PERMANENTLY left out. Not saying Mac had a lot to work with but he's also arguably the best and most experienced coached since we've hired since I guess Fry? That with being in our conference it is doable. I just don't want us to give too many reasons to give excuses because if we're serious about taking this program back to respectability and to the next level we have to have expectations and be relentless on getting the best product on the field and getting wins.

[KRAM1]

Having been at the game, with no preconceived opinion prior to seeing LaLa play in that game, I would say yes - with the exception of their QB and punter, their talent was MUCH better!

100% agree with this comment...have already said so in fact. LaLa was bigger, faster and stronger...and "older" almost to the man.

Experienced players certainly help a new coach in the turnaround process. Youngsters need time...much more time than a junior or senior to catch on to a new system and to hold their ground against experienced (and bigger) opponents. One does tend to lean from playing the game, right?