intra state rivals

[rcade]

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to schedule a home game that would sellout and make the school some money instead of taking an away game at Alabama for cash.

The choice isn't whether to schedule a money game or schedule UTSA. We're going to have one money game a season regardless.

The choice is whether to schedule Texas State or UTSA instead of teams like Tulsa, Ball State and Ohio.

[NT80]

We want to consider Smut as being a natural rival because of their location and snooty attitudes. But we don't play them often enough and I doubt they feel the same.

Back in 1-AA days NLU (ULM) and SFA were somewhat rivals. When we first started SBC play MUTS were often the most hated opponent but not truly a rival.

UTSA and TxSt-SM may someyear become a rival for us but not until they prove their worth as FBS programs first.

[PlummMeanGreen]

The choice isn't whether to schedule a money game or schedule UTSA. We're going to have one money game a season regardless.

The choice is whether to schedule Texas State or UTSA instead of teams like Tulsa, Ball State and Ohio.

Good point...except we don't recruit against 2 of the 3 latter schools you mention.

If anyone doesn't think TSU-SM's Coach Fran (and one of his assistants-- Darrell Dickey) ain't going to focus on most of the players we recruit, then I have some ocean front property in AZ to talk to you about.

[kalebschumann]

How were the Rangers, Mavs, Stars and Cowboys doing in 1990?

The North Stars were on their way to a Stanley Cup in 1990...

[rcade]

Good point...except we don't recruit against 2 of the 3 latter schools you mention.

Surely we're not afraid of scheduling two new FBS programs for fear they will be able to outrecruit McCarney.

[rcade]

UTSA and TxSt-SM may someyear become a rival for us but not until they prove their worth as FBS programs first.

Unless we have better alternative rivalries we can start building now, I see no benefit to waiting. UTSA is clearly going to be as big a program as UNT and will perhaps be another USF.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Surely we're not afraid of scheduling two new FBS programs for fear they will be able to outrecruit McCarney.

"the latter three"........................teams like Tulsa, Ball State and Ohio.

[wardly]

We want to consider Smut as being a natural rival because of their location and snooty attitudes. But we don't play them often enough and I doubt they feel the same.

Back in 1-AA days NLU (ULM) and SFA were somewhat rivals. When we first started SBC play MUTS were often the most hated opponent but not truly a rival.

UTSA and TxSt-SM may someyear become a rival for us but not until they prove their worth as FBS programs first.

this coming from a program that has lost 62 games in the last 6&1/2 years.

[foutsrouts]

this coming from a program that has lost 62 games in the last 6&1/2 years.

If that's all that matters, smu lost 82 games between 2001 and 2010, while we lost only 79. Guess that makes them no better than us. Where's that Big East bid possibility for North Texas!

[goodsn4]

Even SMU, Baylor, Texas A&M, Houston, and TCU have played the lowly FCS Texas State program in the last few years.

[greenminer]

TWU

Just throwing that out there.

[wardly]

TWU

Just throwing that out there.

we played them a few times recently in womens basketball and i think we lost.

[wardly]

If that's all that matters, smu lost 82 games between 2001 and 2010, while we lost only 79. Guess that makes them no better than us. Where's that Big East bid possibility for North Texas!

my post was about our reluctance to schedule utsa, and not a comparasion between the 2 worst teams in metroplex, although smu has turned the corner. utsa is not going away, and if houston gets big east bid it will be the roadrunners who replace them in cusa, not north texas or la. tech. the san antonio market is just too big to ignore. hopefully smu will move to big east and open up a slot for us in cusa, but than has nothing to do with my original post, which again was concern that we are in no position to look down our nose at utsa and should schedule them in football.

[MeanGreenTexan]

my post was about our reluctance to schedule utsa, and not a comparasion between the 2 worst teams in metroplex, although smu has turned the corner. utsa is not going away, and if houston gets big east bid it will be the roadrunners who replace them in cusa, not north texas or la. tech. the san antonio market is just too big to ignore. hopefully smu will move to big east and open up a slot for us in cusa, but than has nothing to do with my original post, which again was concern that we are in no position to look down our nose at utsa and should schedule them in football.

How soon should we schedule UTSA in football? Sooner than TX St? Sooner than attempting to renew a home-home with Houston?

[Green Mean]

Even SMU, Baylor, Texas A&M, Houston, and TCU have played the lowly FCS Texas State program in the last few years.

They and we know for sure that it would be an easy win for them. Right now or in the past 4-6 years I am just not sure we beat them. That is the difference.

[Daddy Dumpsalot]

who do you think has any interest in being an intra state rival with us?

To be honest if we could play teams tougher, then anyone who currently doesn't have one. Just because SMU doesn't look to us as a "rival" doesn't mean they wouldn't after we beat them a few more times. Same for Houston and Rice. I like to think that we would set our eyes a little higher than FBS schools to have anything to do with.

Come to think of it, I don't think we need an intra state rival. What other texas schools have one? The only thing I can think of is TU and AtM and even then TU doesn't consider them much of a rivalry anymore. I think the intra state rivalries are mostly in smaller states with usually 2 major universities. Auburn Alabama, Ole Miss MissSt, Clemson SC, Iowa Iowa St, Kansas KSt, etc. For texas Baylor doesn't look to TCU or Tech as a rivalry, Tech wants to rival with AtM, SMU wants TCU as a rivalry.

For a "rivalry" to occur we need to consistently schedule an opposing team almost every year. If we had SMU/Houston/Rice scheduled every year a rivalry would be born.

[Green Mean]

To be honest if we could play teams tougher, then anyone who currently doesn't have one. Just because SMU doesn't look to us as a "rival" doesn't mean they wouldn't after we beat them a few more times. Same for Houston and Rice. I like to think that we would set our eyes a little higher than FBS schools to have anything to do with.

Come to think of it, I don't think we need an intra state rival. What other texas schools have one? The only thing I can think of is TU and AtM and even then TU doesn't consider them much of a rivalry anymore. I think the intra state rivalries are mostly in smaller states with usually 2 major universities. Auburn Alabama, Ole Miss MissSt, Clemson SC, Iowa Iowa St, Kansas KSt, etc. For texas Baylor doesn't look to TCU or Tech as a rivalry, Tech wants to rival with AtM, SMU wants TCU as a rivalry.

For a "rivalry" to occur we need to consistently schedule an opposing team almost every year. If we had SMU/Houston/Rice scheduled every year a rivalry would be born.

Houston/Rice

SMU/TCU

UTEP/NMSU - Not instate rival but they're neighbors

I'm sure Rice/TCU/SMU all have interchangeable rivalries since all them are highly respected private schools.

Texas Tech is rivals to both A&M and Texas.

And even after this season I think the Texas and A&M rivalry will still be there for a while at least.

Also keep in mind that all these Texas schools have some sort of rivalry because they had one thing in common...they were all part of the SWC so they all have history together one way or another. That is something UNT doesn't have which I think hurts us immensely that we never had much history with any of these folks to begin with.

[eppy4life]

To be honest if we could play teams tougher, then anyone who currently doesn't have one. Just because SMU doesn't look to us as a "rival" doesn't mean they wouldn't after we beat them a few more times. Same for Houston and Rice. I like to think that we would set our eyes a little higher than FBS schools to have anything to do with.

Come to think of it, I don't think we need an intra state rival. What other texas schools have one? The only thing I can think of is TU and AtM and even then TU doesn't consider them much of a rivalry anymore. I think the intra state rivalries are mostly in smaller states with usually 2 major universities. Auburn Alabama, Ole Miss MissSt, Clemson SC, Iowa Iowa St, Kansas KSt, etc. For texas Baylor doesn't look to TCU or Tech as a rivalry, Tech wants to rival with AtM, SMU wants TCU as a rivalry.

For a "rivalry" to occur we need to consistently schedule an opposing team almost every year. If we had SMU/Houston/Rice scheduled every year a rivalry would be born.

Agreed. Tulsa would be a very nice rival. Doesn't have to be 'in state.'

[playoffpush]

To be honest if we could play teams tougher, then anyone who currently doesn't have one. Just because SMU doesn't look to us as a "rival" doesn't mean they wouldn't after we beat them a few more times. Same for Houston and Rice. I like to think that we would set our eyes a little higher than FBS schools to have anything to do with.

Come to think of it, I don't think we need an intra state rival. What other texas schools have one? The only thing I can think of is TU and AtM and even then TU doesn't consider them much of a rivalry anymore. I think the intra state rivalries are mostly in smaller states with usually 2 major universities. Auburn Alabama, Ole Miss MissSt, Clemson SC, Iowa Iowa St, Kansas KSt, etc. For texas Baylor doesn't look to TCU or Tech as a rivalry, Tech wants to rival with AtM, SMU wants TCU as a rivalry.

For a "rivalry" to occur we need to consistently schedule an opposing team almost every year. If we had SMU/Houston/Rice scheduled every year a rivalry would be born.

I think you are right, UNT just needs to get another instate program on the schedule every year and a rivalry may be born. This has been somewhat solved with getting SMU on the schedule for 2014-2017 with an option to extend it. Take a look at SMU future OOC schedule http://bit.ly/nh2v9G they play all Texas teams and Navy. That is what UNT should be doing even if that means having to play UTSA and Texas State.

[eppy4life]

I think you are right, UNT just needs to get another instate program on the schedule every year and a rivalry may be born. This has been somewhat solved with getting SMU on the schedule for 2014-2017 with an option to extend it. Take a look at SMU future OOC schedule http://bit.ly/nh2v9G they play all Texas teams and Navy. That is what UNT should be doing even if that means having to play UTSA and Texas State.

I don't like trying to create a rivalry with SMU simply because there will never be a mutual respect. I think what makes a good rivalry is dislike AND respect. They will always view us as inferior and never a rival.

[NTXCoog]

Houston/Rice

SMU/TCU

UTEP/NMSU - Not instate rival but they're neighbors

I'm sure Rice/TCU/SMU all have interchangeable rivalries since all them are highly respected private schools.

Texas Tech is rivals to both A&M and Texas.

And even after this season I think the Texas and A&M rivalry will still be there for a while at least.

Also keep in mind that all these Texas schools have some sort of rivalry because they had one thing in common...they were all part of the SWC so they all have history together one way or another. That is something UNT doesn't have which I think hurts us immensely that we never had much history with any of these folks to begin with.

I'm not sure how many of these combos are really considered "rivals." SMU/TCU is probably the only real rivalry out of the group.

UH v Rice? Until recently UH has dominated that series so thoroughly in both football and basketball, that it was hard for UH fans to consider them a rival.

Rice v TCU/SMU? I don't think either side of this combo considers that a rivalry.

TT v aTm/UT? TT considers it a rivalry but aTm & UT don't.

Regarding Texas school rivalries there are really few.

UT v aTm is definitely one although UT doesn't consider them their primary rival.

UT v OU is UT's primary rivalry.

TCU v SMU are adequate rivals.

Baylor v TCU is a semi-rivalry.

UTEP v NMSU. Long running series.

All the SWC schools generally get more excited to play each other than most other opponents, but I don't know how many would consider them rivalries. This has been a great debate on UH boards too. We don't think we have any rivals either. Rice is the closest we've got, but when you beat someone 70% of the time, like I said, it's hard to think of them as a rival.

[foutsrouts]

I don't like trying to create a rivalry with SMU simply because there will never be a mutual respect. I think what makes a good rivalry is dislike AND respect. They will always view us as inferior and never a rival.

Always is a very long time. ONCE we start winning; especially OOC games, others will respect us, and that respect will be forcibly shoved down smu's collective golden throats.

[normack9]

I don't post often, and I can't imagine that this particular comment is going to be popular, given what I'm reading.

I'm amazed reading how some are so optimistic/hopeful that North Texas is going to be picked up by C-USA or some big conference. I have a hard time figuring out why a big conference would want North Texas to begin with. I also have a hard time figuring out why some on this forum look down on schools like UTSA or Texas State. What's so wrong with creating a regional conference with up-and-coming programs like those?

I attended, and graduated from, North Texas at a time when it was in I-AA... and there were some good, well-attended rivalry (yes, rivalry) games when NT was in the Southland Conference. I remember in Matt Simon's first-year, a Southland Conference championship and playoff year, bringing in Montana (I think it was)... which was a highly-ranked team in I-AA that year, a game North Texas lost at the very end. I seem to remember a big and boisterous crowd at that game, too. That was a fun game that meant something in terms of national rankings.

The new stadium's great, I'm sure... we won't be traveling to Denton until the December 3 game against MTSU... I'm sure it's first class. But the program needs to take baby-steps and set realistic goals. Jumping from the Sun Belt to a big conference after nearly a decade of poor seasons ain't gonna' happen.

Why not set up a Texas-style version of the Mid-America Conference, which has away games that can be made by a relatively short car drive? Who wouldn't mind going to San Antonio every other year?

I wouldn't be surprised, either, if UT-Arlington brings football back in the not-too-distant future. That could be a natural rival.

I love North Texas football... but guys, we're not going to be competing for a national championship anytime soon. I hope the powers that be would create a regional conference that makes sense. This spread out Sun Belt thing is a drag... and so would us joining any one of the others some are wishing for.

Just one man's thoughts.

[UNTflyer]

We have no better option for regular in-state rivals than UTSA and Texas State. The lack of long conference affiliation with Texas schools has left UNT with no natural rivalries other than SMU.

Talk to Marshall and WVU fans how important conference affiliation is to a rivalry. Or any of the following:

Florida vs. FSU

FSU vs. Miami

Miami vs. Notre Dame

Notre Dame vs. anybody

[NTXCoog]

Why not set up a Texas-style version of the Mid-America Conference, which has away games that can be made by a relatively short car drive?

No offense, but have you seen MAC attendance? In 2010, the MAC had the lowest attendance of any conference at 15,609. The Sunbelt was 17,969.

A more local, regional conference may be a positive, but trying to emulate the MAC isn't a positive selling point for any solution.