intra state rivals

wardly · October 9, 2011

i am susprised and dissapointed that unt has not reached out to utsa and tex st and included them on out futute football schedule. they are not going away! since my freahman year of 61' the only real natural rivals i can remember were uta, sfa, and la. monroe when we were all in the southland conference. while we may consider smu a rival, they don't think of us as theirs. i personally think we are missing an opportunity, especially with utsa, whose ytd average attendance can only make us green with envy.just an old man's opinion, which if you agree with you might share with rick v.

untgeorge · October 9, 2011

i am susprised and dissapointed that unt has not reached out to utsa and tex st and included them on out futute football schedule. they are not going away! since my freahman year of 61' the only real natural rivals i can remember were uta, sfa, and la. monroe when we were all in the southland conference. while we may consider smu a rival, they don't think of us as theirs. i personally think we are missing an opportunity, especially with utsa, whose ytd average attendance can only make us green with envy.just an old man's opinion, which if you agree with you might share with rick v.

Why do so many UNT fans think our fan base will consider these schools as rivals? We have played TxSt 36 times and a rivalry never developed. Why would one develop now? Accepting them at this time will further convince our undevoted alums that we are truly small time.

We have plenty of time. If we want them we can get them 5 years from now.

Green Mean · October 9, 2011

We don't HAVE to have intrastate rivals. Last I checked UTSA and TX State was still FCS. Until they are officially FBS and have a few years in the belt we don't need to schedule them. If we win and I mean win consistently then attendance will rise. We've only had 3 home games in the new stadium and people think our football program is cured or will cure itself. The truth is that the athletic department and team needs to give people a reason to come to games and support. It doesn't mean our students/alumni want us to lose but there are alternative options and when weighing them against UNT getting hammered by a relatively no name school in most people's conscience I think this is what we're going to get. This isn't rocket science.

DeepGreen · October 9, 2011

Why do so many UNT fans think our fan base will consider these schools as rivals? We have played TxSt 36 times and a rivalry never developed. Why would one develop now? Accepting them at this time will further convince our undevoted alums that we are truly small time.

We have plenty of time. If we want them we can get them 5 years from now.

Agree.

And our AD should be doing everything in their power to schedule schools like Rice, Baylor, TCU, SMU(series scheduled), Houston, Tx Tech, Tulsa, maybe UTEP, etc. All you have to do is look at the attendance at these games at Fouts/Apogee and they were all well attended. Throw in Army and Navy while you're at it.

And BTW, I certainly could care less if we play Tx State-San Marcus or UTSA. They mean nothing to me.

Edited October 9, 2011 by DeepGreen

Green2012 · October 9, 2011

I want to play Little Sisters of the Poor University. I think a bowl season is more important to me than having an extra 5k there because we are playing a "known" school. Don't get me wrong, I want to schedule SMU, TCU, Rice, especially Army and Navy (great atmosphere). All of these games are EASILY winnable and provide a good turnout. At this point however, I want to secure at least 1 easy win a year. All the "big" schools do it so I'm not sure why we can't too.

KingDL1 · October 9, 2011

We have a long series scheduled with SMU. I think they will be a great team to get fired up about. I would like to see a similar series set up with Baylor. I will take them as my Huckleberries any day.

What are the details of the SMU series? Starting 2013 for 7 or 9 years? I don't remember exactly.

NT03 · October 9, 2011

i am susprised and dissapointed that unt has not reached out to utsa and tex st and included them on out futute football schedule. they are not going away! since my freahman year of 61' the only real natural rivals i can remember were uta, sfa, and la. monroe when we were all in the southland conference. while we may consider smu a rival, they don't think of us as theirs. i personally think we are missing an opportunity, especially with utsa, whose ytd average attendance can only make us green with envy.just an old man's opinion, which if you agree with you might share with rick v.

After they pass us by here soon then more people will agree with you ( us)

NT03 · October 9, 2011

Why do so many UNT fans think our fan base will consider these schools as rivals? We have played TxSt 36 times and a rivalry never developed. Why would one develop now? Accepting them at this time will further convince our undevoted alums that we are truly small time.

We have plenty of time. If we want them we can get them 5 years from now.

Who else are we going to have a rivalry with ?

We are small time

SilverEagle · October 9, 2011

Let's see. We've been playing organized football since 1913 and we still don't have an identifiable rival? Just how pathetic is that? Geezz, if this were High School, which group would that put us in?

And before some on this board become too dismissive of schools like Tx St. and SFA....our first sell-out EVER in the old Fouts configuration (pre-alum stands) was against SFA in 1989 (20,252) and we came close during the same era with TX St. and McNeese st. The Abner Haynes era never did that, the Joe Greene-Steve Ramsey era never did that, and the Hayden Fry era never did that.

So if Tx St. gets back up to D-1, then I'm all for welcoming them into a conference with us and LET THE RIVALRY BEGIN.....again.

El Paso Eagle · October 9, 2011

How many of you that want nothing to do with Texas State or UTSA get pissed off when SMU, or other, look down on us? Yes, Coach Mac is trying to build something here, but we have no history to say we are better than these schools.

Got5onIt · October 9, 2011

Let's stick with FBS schools for now. Maybe when NT is a consistent winner can we play these teams....

NT03 · October 9, 2011

How many of you that want nothing to do with Texas State or UTSA get pissed off when SMU, or other, look down on us? Yes, Coach Mac is trying to build something here, but we have no history to say we are better than these schools.

Bingo

MeanMag · October 9, 2011

I'm torn on this. While I would like to play and beat UTSA and TSU-SM every year, at some point UNT is going to have to start passing schools above us.

Our growth curve in funding and wins is going to have to exceed about 50 other schools to get to where I think UNT should be. Right now, we aren't making that move in football, we are simply catching up. The schools we should be competitive with given our history and size right now are Tulsa, Houston, SMU. Several years ago, the on field performance of the football team was on par with Baylor, Cincinnati, TCU. For 1-2 years. Even then, Tulsa seemed bigger, stronger, faster. All 3 of those teams went on to grow and improve performance and stature in their respective regions, while UNT moved backwards, for whatever excuse.

Football should be on par with our basketball. Basketball proves talent can be brought here, and it's a great place to win. Dan McCarney and staff point to the basketball team as a model of what the football team wants to be. It's a great program to want to emulate for Dan McCarney because it's at the same school, with the same advantages his football team has.

The Todd Dodge era moved us backwards. Dickey may have mailed it in the last 2 years, but Dodge didn't improve the situation. Half way through year 1 into a new head coaching staff, and Dan has won as many as Dodge in his best year. 2 more wins and the 2011 football team will have a better record than any team over the last 7 years. Just think about all of the students that have passed through the doors of UNT in that span. I expect a couple of down years, but a couple of down years should still win a minimum of 4 games for us to not be embarrassed about the state of the program.

I guess if we start scheduling these 2 teams, we better make for damn sure we beat them. I don't care who their coaches are or what league they play in. Losing to them can hurt us tremendously.

Aquila_Viridis · October 9, 2011

Houston is the ONLY rivalry we should or really can pursue. I think the people posting on here about Southwest or UTurdSA are likely just posers who are really supporters of those schools. Please stop. We will only make fun of your school when you do this. If you want to see mean things posted here about your school, I don't need much of a reason.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 9, 2011

i am susprised and dissapointed that unt has not reached out to utsa and tex st and included them on out futute football schedule. they are not going away! since my freahman year of 61' the only real natural rivals i can remember were uta, sfa, and la. monroe when we were all in the southland conference. while we may consider smu a rival, they don't think of us as theirs. i personally think we are missing an opportunity, especially with utsa, whose ytd average attendance can only make us green with envy.just an old man's opinion, which if you agree with you might share with rick v.

Agree, if for no other reason that at least Texas State would bring fans to put in the seats.

We've got to stay regional to get this thing off the ground. As I've said, I love the Tulsa games as they should be the absolute marking point for us. They recruit our area and they pulled themselves out of a huge hole on and off the field.

I'd push for Houston more. They brought a ton of fans. Texas State - yes. I'd go for Kansas as well. Many KU grads in the Metroplex.

I think probably the thing to do is to find out the number of members of Dallas area alumni groups of various schools and try to pick them off. Even Indiana brought quite a few out.

Texas, and DFW in particular, is teeming with people not born in the state. Our economy is a draw. Let's take advantage of it with our football schedule.

To me, Houston, Tulsa, and Texas State should be slam dunk no-brainers for future scheduling.

PlummMeanGreen · October 9, 2011

Agree.

And our AD should be doing everything in their power to schedule schools like Rice, Baylor, TCU, SMU(series scheduled), Houston, Tx Tech, Tulsa, maybe UTEP, etc. All you have to do is look at the attendance at these games at Fouts/Apogee and they were all well attended. Throw in Army and Navy while you're at it.

And BTW, I certainly could care less if we play Tx State-San Marcus or UTSA. They mean nothing to me.

We have a new stadium that Big 12 interim Commish' Chuck Neinas said we got a hellvua' deal for $78 million which between his lines with that statement says no one today could most likely build an Apogee-type stadium for less than $100-110 million truth be known. We need to have opponents that such a stadium should be able to produce for us.

The above schools Deep Green suggests are exactly who we need to schedule to move forward with what I think (and hope) North Texas wants to do. If we want to maintain the status quo we had pre-Apogee, schedule the TSU's and the UTSA's till the cows come home. Yet if we have aspirations to one day move to a more prestigious conference they will not be impressed with a long list of wins with schools just starting their journey as FBS schools. We know few leagues were impressed with our production from the 'Belt nor were they when we even went to 4 bowls in the early years of our league, either.

JUST ONE MORE UNSOLICITED ADVENTURE--GOL' DARN IT. :notfair:

I was ready to head to Denton and meet SUMG and then go to last night's game until toward the last minute a lady friend and I discovered that a strong gust of wind had apparently broken off part of a limb from one of my houses' surrounding oak trees whose limbs tower over my abode gouging a small hole in the roof in a part of the house I rarely use--a guest room bathroom. My day, night and morning would be just beginning.

After I saw the weather radar from Kerith's cell phone showing some very, scary ominous rain heading straight to Parker County. My friend confirmed the obvious and then informed me that "Jim, you are not going to get to go to that football game now." I called SUMG and told him I had to cancel what would have been a great time at Apogee.

I could not get a tarp to cover the small hole in my roof in time and I didn't have a ladder to get up on the roof if I'd had a tarp. Calling a roofing specialist was out ot the question because few would get out and work in the arriving rain and of course for what they would charge just to say hello and look at would be ridiculous so.................

............I spent most of the night (and into the early morning hours ) with Weatherford's 3 to 4 or 5 inch rain emptying a huge plastic garbage tub of non-stop water from that leak while you guys were having a good time and another fun Apogee expereince. So.....when it rains...it pours? I am glad for the rain, but instead of getting it all at one time an all days farmer rain would have sufficed, but we did get the rain which we all needed so badly.

:thumbsu: I'm glad we won the game as that is the only thing good that came from last night.

Edited October 9, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

Rudy · October 9, 2011

Geez, this again? They haven't moved up to FBS yet, once they do, I am all for scheduling them to try and start a rivalry.

Don't forget, you can not FORCE a rivalry upon your fanbase. Many rivalries happen over time or by a development of bad blood, not JUST close proximity. We had a pretty good rivalry developing with NMSU after the "Miracle in the Desert" in 2001 and then beating them here in 2002 to win the conference, and with MTSU after they got their panties in a wad over NT going to the First N.O. Bowl instead of them, then the cheap shot on our punt returner the next year. SMUt would be a rival for us because of their overall douchiness and our intolerance for said douchiness, plus our perception, be it true or not, of them keeping us out of CUSA.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · October 9, 2011

Vanderbilt claims 2,677 alumni in their Dallas group

http://www.alumniconnections.com/olc/pub/VDT/cpages/home.jsp?chapter=35

Indiana

http://alumni.indiana.edu/chapters/dallas/index.html

Maryland

http://alumni.umd.edu/s/1132/index.aspx?sid=1132&gid=1&pgid=382

Kentucky claims 1,750

http://www.ukalumni.net/s/1052/index-no-right.aspx?sid=1052&gid=1&pgid=477

Arizona

http://alumni.arizona.edu/alumni_groups/chapters/dallas_ftworth/news_scholarships

Iowa State

http://www.isualum.org/index.cfm?nodeID=7719&audienceID=1

Southern Illinois

http://siualumni.com/s/664/alt.aspx?sid=664&gid=1&pgid=1135

Houston

http://www.alumniconnections.com/olc/pub/UHU/cpages/home/home.jsp?chapter=15&org=UHU

UTEP

http://alumni.utep.edu/dallas

Northwestern

http://alumni.northwestern.edu/dfw

Mississippi State

http://www.alumni.msstate.edu/s/811/index.aspx?sid=811&gid=1&pgid=890&contentbuilder=1

Stephen F Austin

http://www.sfaalumni.com/?dallas_chapterevent

South Florida claims over 1,000

http://usfalumni.org/s/861/internal.aspx?sid=861&gid=1&pgid=1400

Mississippi

http://www.rebelclubdfw.com/

Kansas State

http://www.k-state.com/s/1173/start.aspx

Connecticut

http://uconnalumni.com/get-involved/geographic-groups/271-dallas-chapter.html

Duke

http://www.dukealumni.com/category/clubslocation/duke-dallas

New Mexico

http://www.unmalumni.com/regional-chapters.html

Virginia Tech

http://dfwhokies.com/events.html

BYU

http://alumni.byu.edu/s/1085/03-provo-Alumni/index.aspx?sid=1085&gid=7&pgid=1093

PlummMeanGreen · October 9, 2011

Geez, this again? They haven't moved up to FBS yet, once they do, I am all for scheduling them to try and start a rivalry.

Don't forget, you can not FORCE a rivalry upon your fanbase. Many rivalries happen over time or by a development of bad blood, not JUST close proximity. We had a pretty good rivalry developing with NMSU after the "Miracle in the Desert" in 2001 and then beating them here in 2002 to win the conference, and with MTSU after they got their panties in a wad over NT going to the First N.O. Bowl instead of them, then the cheap shot on our punt returner the next year. SMUt would be a rival for us because of their overall douchiness and our intolerance for said douchiness, plus our perception, be it true or not, of them keeping us out of CUSA.

All this dab-nabbit' NCAA pecking order is a bummer, Rudy, but a stark reality we all have to live with.

What is almost funny with the Big Boys is how few of them even want to be in bed with each other (UT & TAMU for starters).

Insane people (some Big Time presidents and some Big Time AD"s) are screwing up NCAA football as we once knew it. Tradition and a buck in today's NCAA will get you a bad cup of coffee.

Duck_Mav · October 9, 2011

Houston is the ONLY rivalry we should or really can pursue. I think the people posting on here about Southwest or UTurdSA are likely just posers who are really supporters of those schools. Please stop. We will only make fun of your school when you do this. If you want to see mean things posted here about your school, I don't need much of a reason.

No poser here, but thought I would dispel the talk about swTSU not being D-1. They have been giving the full FBS allotment of scholarships and are thus ineligible for the Southland football championship this year. Granted, their team is probably not the best one in the SLC, but they are giving those 21 extra rides, so they are not an FCS program. Like the rest of the lower half of the SLC, they would have trouble competing with McNeese, SFA or Sam Houston, but that probably puts them on a par with some of the Sunbelt bottom dwellers as well. :0)

cwb · October 9, 2011

Tulsa or maybe La Tech. Niether seem to have a natural rival and both would be border battles. Would not mind Tx State trip every other year but they seem to be forming a rivalry with chapparals.

eaglecat · October 9, 2011

No poser here, but thought I would dispel the talk about swTSU not being D-1. They have been giving the full FBS allotment of scholarships and are thus ineligible for the Southland football championship this year. Granted, their team is probably not the best one in the SLC, but they are giving those 21 extra rides, so they are not an FCS program. Like the rest of the lower half of the SLC, they would have trouble competing with McNeese, SFA or Sam Houston, but that probably puts them on a par with some of the Sunbelt bottom dwellers as well. :0)

Just wanted to chime in. Graduate of both Texas State and UNT here.

Texas State does not have the full allottment of scholarships yet but is over the 63 allotment for FCS. Next year will be the first year they will be at 85. I have to agree with the people that think we need to find a way to play this team. They are averaging more people per game and honestly their crowds are awesome and travel much better than we do.

Mcneese, SFA and Sam Houston were probably really bad examples. I believe TXST has beaten Mcneese 6 of the last 7. Beaten SFA 4 straight years and Beaten Sam 3 of the last 4. Texas State has been one of the better teams in the Southland for a while winning it in 2005, 2008.

UNTJarhead0802 · October 9, 2011

In my time, MTS was the big rival- we absolutely hated them and a friend of mine who I met at OCS said they detested us. I suppose it was due to their perceived rule over the belt that never came to fruition. It got nasty. REALLY nasty. But, after we faded, it just ceased. At the same time, the New Mexico State game was always pretty ferocious. We also had a great series, or at least competitive one, against TCU. We have a great plug with SMU because of their "Cash over Trash" perception, plus they always seem to be bagging on us even when they have bigger things to worry about. Houston is intriguing, because of both schools being considered afterthoughts in mainstream Tx football. If we can somehow start beating Tulsa, it could be a mini red river shootout, but there has to be victories by both sides to be considered a rivalry.

In short, rivalries happen when you don't expect them to. If we take care of business, this kind of thing will take care of itself.

Edited October 9, 2011 by UNTJarhead0802

GrayEagle · October 9, 2011

Agree, if for no other reason that at least Texas State would bring fans to put in the seats.

We've got to stay regional to get this thing off the ground. As I've said, I love the Tulsa games as they should be the absolute marking point for us. They recruit our area and they pulled themselves out of a huge hole on and off the field.

I'd push for Houston more. They brought a ton of fans. Texas State - yes. I'd go for Kansas as well. Many KU grads in the Metroplex.

I think probably the thing to do is to find out the number of members of Dallas area alumni groups of various schools and try to pick them off. Even Indiana brought quite a few out.

Texas, and DFW in particular, is teeming with people not born in the state. Our economy is a draw. Let's take advantage of it with our football schedule.

To me, Houston, Tulsa, and Texas State should be slam dunk no-brainers for future scheduling.

Exactly. We need FBS teams that will attract fans; both our own and opponents.

We already have six future games with SMU scheduled beginning in 2014 but I believe only one with Tulsa and Houston. TCU won't play us but I believe that Rice and UTEP might. I'd like to see another series with Kansas State. Southern Miss should be a decent draw for us. And, by all means, Texas State. They are a transitional FBS team this year. I'd like to see us play any Big 12 team that would give us at least a two for one.

Butts in seats are our #1 priority. Regional games give us our best chance.

GangGreen · October 10, 2011

Call me poser if you want. You might have me confused with someone that gives a sh**. I live in New Braunfels and work in San Antonio so I am fairly familiar with these two programs. UTSA is drawing crowds NT would die for. We blame our poor attendance on the teams we play. Have you looked at who UTSA has played and still drawn great crowds? The city of SA is getting behind this team and time will only improve that. They are 2-4 (same as NT), and went 2 OT with a team (USA) that the Suck Belt is considering on elevating.

Why not play them now when we have chance to kick their teeth in?

From a purely selfish standpoint, I would love to see us play these teams because it would be very easy for me to go to those games. And for those of you still in DFW, wouldn't you like to make a trip to the Alamo Dome and be in a crowd of 30,000+ that we might actually win? Good revenue for the program and winnable at the same time.

PS: They sell beer at the Alamo Dome.

Edited October 10, 2011 by GangGreen