University of Houston reaction to TCU to Big 12

Harry · October 7, 2011

http://blog.chron.com/cougars/2011/10/what-does-tcu-to-the-big-12-mean-for-uh/

When the Horned Frogs were building football success, brick-by-brick, in the early 2000s under coach Gary Patterson, UH was trying to climb back into relevancy. The Cougars began returning to respectability under coach Art Briles and athletic director Dave Maggard and the ascent has continued under coach Kevin Sumlin and Rhoades. But the Horned Frogs have made more progress and that’s why they are in the position they’re in.

I wasn’t around to cover previous administrations so I’m not going to pretend to know what did or didn’t happen or why UH hasn’t made more progress on facilities long before the last couple of years. The bottom line is, it didn’t happen. It’s hard to accomplish in two years what TCU has done in about 10. And if UH doesn’t find itself in an AQ conference when this round of realignment slows down, the idle time and lack of progress between the time the Southwest Conference disbanded until the mid 2000s will certainly be a reason to point to. During that stretch, apathy around the program reached a high point, attendance was abysmal and there wasn’t a ton of positive buzz about UH athletics.

Were Thursday’s events a death knell for UH athletics? Not at all and it shouldn’t be viewed in that way. If history teaches us anything about conference realignment, it’s that it doesn’t stop. Unless college presidents suddenly decide they want a college football playoff or we move into the era of the superconference, it doesn’t appear that the shuffling of teams in and out of conferences is going to halt any time soon. TCU was one of the handful of teams, along with UH, left out of the Big 12 when it was formed after the Southwest Conference disbanded and look where it sits now.

LongJim · October 7, 2011

"During that stretch, apathy around the program reached a high point, attendance was abysmal and there wasn’t a ton of positive buzz about UH athletics."

Nutshell.

PlummMeanGreen · October 7, 2011

UH should just be patient. Anyone who thinks the Big 12 is set in stone with their present situation is not keeping up with college conferences re-alignment

UH has a past SWC membership in their resume' just as TCU did. It helped TCU and it will eventually help Houston. If UH were in the MWC they would be temporary just as TCU was temporary with the MWC and the Big East. Our weakness at North Texas is what league we would be coming from if we were to elevate upward. CUSA may come soon for UNT but it probably won't be (or stay) the CUSA most on this board have wanted.

If North Texas has any friends who can get MWC commissioner Craig Thompson onto our campus and the Mean Green Village and the Top 10 TV market we reside I think we would immediately become a "higher up their list" serious contender for MWC membership. You can't walk across all that real estate between 2 Texas interstates in the major population center our school is located and not be impressed. Major airport access is also one of our pluses at North Texas. Some schools fly into other out of the way outposts and have to take 1-2 hour bus drives to an opponent's campus. Our campus is 35 minutes from DFW Airport and 20 minutes from Alliance Airport.

One thing (among a list) we have not done right at North Texas the last 30 plus years (until now with Coach Mac)) is simply not hire a proven NCAA D1 HFC with major university experience with some success. We tried to suggest that many years ago to past leaders but there were always disastrous "detours" that caused our leadership to go other directions and so therefore....here we are--still with all this potential and not many wins the last umpteen years. Lady Timing still chooses not to smile on us....yet.

Yes, hindsight is 20/20 but there are some things in hiring a football coach at a major university in the state of Texas where football is King that even a novice could probably do better in hiring than some we've had pushed down the throats of our UNT community of NT alums and Mean Green fans. We do need some outside help in this re-alignment business for us to improve our lot in collegiate athletic life and that is for certain.

Edited October 7, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

UNT90 · October 7, 2011

People need to understand that winning on the football field means more than any other factor.

Period.

Edited October 7, 2011 by UNT90

greenminer · October 7, 2011

Someone is running around the board giving -1s liberally. At least there is a 24 hour limit on those things.

NT80 · October 7, 2011

People need to understand that winning on the football field means more than any other factor.

Period.

Boise would be going to the PAC12 if that was the case. Winning helps you get seen but location is still a major consideration, as well as facilities, attendance, and other sports.

TCU trumped UH because of not only winning, but their new stadium renovation, other sports, and fan support on the road. UH does not travel well for a winning program, as we saw in their trip to Denton.

Edited October 7, 2011 by NT80

BeanCounterGrad'03 · October 7, 2011

Speaking of reactions, I took a peek at the SMU board yesterday and there were plenty of ponies running themselves off cliffs.

Stix · October 7, 2011

I was expecting another "Downfall" parody. Maybe that's on the SMU board?

UNT90 · October 7, 2011

Boise would be going to the PAC12 if that was the case. Winning helps you get seen but location is still a major consideration, as well as facilities, attendance, and other sports.

TCU trumped UH because of not only winning, but their new stadium renovation, other sports, and fan support on the road. UH does not travel well for a winning program, as we saw in their trip to Denton.

The point is you don't get seen if you don't win.

TCU travels well because they won against meaningful competition, got a city involved (because they won against meaningful competition), and won the Rose Bowl. Winning led to the expanded facilities, but UNT could have a beautiful 50K seat stadium, and it wouldn't matter a bit if they weren't winning against meaningful competition, because UNT couldn't average over 20K a game.

It all begins and ends with winning against meaningful competition, something UNT has not done in over 40 years, which is why this is the worst possible time for conference realignment to be occurring.

untjim1995 · October 7, 2011

Boise would be going to the PAC12 if that was the case. Winning helps you get seen but location is still a major consideration, as well as facilities, attendance, and other sports.

TCU trumped UH because of not only winning, but their new stadium renovation, other sports, and fan support on the road. UH does not travel well for a winning program, as we saw in their trip to Denton.

Yeah, but winning and community support at Boise got them upgraded twice to conferences that have propelled them to where they are today. You can bet your house that if Boise, Idaho was closer to the Big XII right now, that they would be in. Further, if this thing does turn into 4 or 5 superconferences, which I believe it will, Boise State might very well be in a new "pac-18" or whatever it might be known as down the road. UNT90s point is right--winning in football is the only thing that matters right now if you are not already a part of the privileged class. Hell, look at Kansas--they have probably the best basketball program in the country over the last 5 years and they could very easily get left out because their football program stinks and their conference is built on sand. Meanwhile, Indiana will be just fine taking their Big Ten payout without earning a single dime of it. It is sad, it is stupid, and it is simple--win big at football and you get a guaranteed spot at a bigger table. Don't win and your seat at the little kids table is secure, even if that table gets you back into the FCS room instead of the FBS room.

Harry · October 7, 2011

The point is you don't get seen if you don't win.

TCU travels well because they won against meaningful competition, got a city involved (because they won against meaningful competition), and won the Rose Bowl. Winning led to the expanded facilities, but UNT could have a beautiful 50K seat stadium, and it wouldn't matter a bit if they weren't winning against meaningful competition, because UNT couldn't average over 20K a game.

It all begins and ends with winning against meaningful competition, something UNT has not done in over 40 years, which is why this is the worst possible time for conference realignment to be occurring.

Well stated. It's interesting to look at TCU, Fran got there in 1998 after Pat Sullivan went 1-10 in 97. Fran did not have an illustrious year going 6-5 and losing to SMU, Rice etc but they somehow got into the Sun Bowl game and caught USC napping. There were not any major non conference wins that I could see that year. It was the start of something very special for TCU and in just two years Fran would be heading to Alabama. Perhaps Sullivan left some great players behind that allowed TCU to excel in 1998 or Fran just coached the hell out of them...

untjim1995 · October 7, 2011

Well stated. It's interesting to look at TCU, Fran got there in 1998 after Pat Sullivan went 1-10 in 97. Fran did not have an illustrious year going 6-5 and losing to SMU, Rice etc but they somehow got into the Sun Bowl game and caught USC napping. There were not any major non conference wins that I could see that year. It was the start of something very special for TCU and in just two years Fran would be heading to Alabama. Perhaps Sullivan left some great players behind that allowed TCU to excel in 1998 or Fran just coached the hell out of them...

TCU got that Sun Bowl bid, ironically, because they were a part of the old WAC and the folks in El Paso picked them because some of the other WAC teams that were more eligible for the pick were leaving to create the MWC. Obviously, the ironic part is due to the fact that TCU left for CUSA a few seasons later. Thus, TCU lucked out because of it--and the fact that they could get a Texas team out there. Then, TCU upsets USC and the rest is history.

UNT90 · October 7, 2011

RV should be seriously Knighted if he gets us in any better conference position (I don't consider a severely watered down CUSA "better") in the next 2 years.

I know I sound a little bitter, but it is frustrating to look where we were at after the 4 conference championships to where we are now. If we had built Apogee during the conference championship run, things may be completely different. The loss of the first student vote is looming large in future events.

For those of you that have been around a while and are much more connected than I, I have a question: Did Dickey seem to sour after the first vote on the stadium failed? I know people talk about him calling this the toughest FB coaching job in America, but did he make these statements before that vote? Did that vote cause him to give up?

Not meant to imply anything, I'm just asking. I could see how demoralizing that could have been during that time period.

Edited October 7, 2011 by UNT90

NT80 · October 7, 2011

The point is you don't get seen if you don't win.

TCU travels well because they won against meaningful competition, got a city involved (because they won against meaningful competition), and won the Rose Bowl. Winning led to the expanded facilities, but UNT could have a beautiful 50K seat stadium, and it wouldn't matter a bit if they weren't winning against meaningful competition, because UNT couldn't average over 20K a game.

It all begins and ends with winning against meaningful competition, something UNT has not done in over 40 years, which is why this is the worst possible time for conference realignment to be occurring.

SMUt was not winning nor had great attendance, home or away, when they received a CUSA invite. They fit a need for a conference at the time, regardless of win/loss record. We were the same when invited to the SunkBelt.

greenminer · October 7, 2011

SMUt was not winning nor had great attendance, home or away, went they received a CUSA invite. They fit a need for a conference at the time, regardless of win/loss record. We were the same when invited to the SunkBelt.

I am totally guessing here, but the individual conference needs might be different this time around.

The past phase of realignment is about as good a barometer for discussion as we have, but we really can't say things for sure.

stebo · October 7, 2011

TCU got that Sun Bowl bid, ironically, because they were a part of the old WAC and the folks in El Paso picked them because some of the other WAC teams that were more eligible for the pick were leaving to create the MWC. Obviously, the ironic part is due to the fact that TCU left for CUSA a few seasons later. Thus, TCU lucked out because of it--and the fact that they could get a Texas team out there. Then, TCU upsets USC and the rest is history.

It doesn't really matter but I don't think that the WAC has ever had a tie in to the Sun Bowl. TCU went down there and guaranteed 20K tickets and that is how they got the open bid (when the major conferences could not fill their spot). They wanted to make a statement and show commitment - TCU has really been one step ahead of most non-auto bid schools for the past decade. They knew that they were going to have to earn their way back into the big boys club, they set out with that as their mission, and they did it - now they have two auto bid conferences fighting over them.