Tulsa Seems Down (Thread from CUSA board)

MeanGreen61 · September 26, 2011

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=517529

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 26, 2011

Oklahoma State and Boise State ran up big leads on them before calling off the dogs.

G.J. Kinne is gimpy, can't run. Damaris Johnson is gone. Charles Clay graduated. Both starting corners out. Leading tackler from two years ago out. Todd Graham and the more experienced coaching staff is gone.

I'm telling you, TU is there for the taking. Play a game like we did on Saturday, and we will route Tulsa at their house.

meangreendork · September 26, 2011

They've had a really, really tough schedule. It's hard to go 4-0 when 3 of the teams on the schedule are all top 15 teams. Tulsa is also having to deal without some players at key positions but I don't think they'll be as easy to topple as IU was. IU's problems all seem to have long term causes. The Tulsa issues all seem short-term and having seen what they did last season, I'm worried about our guys being cut up in the secondary.

GrayEagle · September 26, 2011

I wish that I had confidence about this one but I don't.

Tulsa had expectations for a great season but for the reasons that TFLF listed above it won't happen. As demoralizing as that has been for them I still see them as a wounded bear. Don't think you've got them where you want them because that's incentive for them to be fierce.

Kinne may be gimpy and can't throw the long ball but he can eat us alive with short passes. They also have a couple of good running backs in spite of losing Johnson. Don't sell their offense short.

We're going to have to play with the intensity shown against Indiana but without the home field advantage. We can't allow big plays. Tulsa has been historically tough for us and this year should be no exception. It will take our best effort of the season.

untgeorge · September 26, 2011

Oklahoma State and Boise State ran up big leads on them before calling off the dogs.

G.J. Kinne is gimpy, can't run. Damaris Johnson is gone. Charles Clay graduated. Both starting corners out. Leading tackler from two years ago out. Todd Graham and the more experienced coaching staff is gone.

I'm telling you, TU is there for the taking. Play a game like we did on Saturday, and we will route Tulsa at their house.

Tulsa has played 3 teams currently ranked in the top 5 in the AP poll. No way to tell how good they are. Of course they got run out of the park by that schedule, who at our level wouldn't. Keep in mind Saban was using backups in the 2nd qtr vs UNT.

MeanGreenTexan · September 26, 2011

Tulsa has played 3 teams currently ranked in the top 5 in the AP poll. No way to tell how good they are. Of course they got run out of the park by that schedule, who at our level wouldn't. Keep in mind Saban was using backups in the 2nd qtr vs UNT.

Keep in mind Trent Richardson/Eddie Lacy/Marquis Maze and a number of other starters were in the game in the 4th quarter.

The dogs were not called off until the back to back long TD's from Richardson/Lacy early in the 4th.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 26, 2011

You have to have someone to throw to in order to torch a secondary. Like Indiana, Tulsa does not have a go to receiver. Their go to guy is Charles Clay's replacement, Willie Carter. Cover him, assign a shadow to Kinne and we're good.

Their corners are new, and have been eaten alive all season. Milton Howell is a JUCO QB they've throw in at corner in desperation. Justin Skillens is a WR they switched to CB last year. This will be his fifth career start.

I'm telling you, Tulsa can be had.

Mean Green 93-98 · September 26, 2011

Keep in mind Saban was using backups in the 2nd qtr vs UNT.

I'm not even sure what you're talking about there. Yes, he was rotating players through the game, same as our coaching staff tries to do. Yes, he was using 2 QBs, but he had done the same thing in his previous 2 games, including against Penn State. But the starters were a long way from being pulled in the 2nd quarter, considering it was 20-0 at the half.

Weatherdemon · September 26, 2011

I hope GJ doesn't play but suspect he will.

The leading tackler will be back for this game as will CB Rose.

On defense, the biggest weakness has been our DB's... of course we have played 3 top 5 teams all of whom have outstanding offenses.

Defensive strength is in the LB's and the DL has actually played very well.

On offense, the biggest weakness has actually been passing. Burnham has stepped up in a big way and James has looked good. WR corps certainly not what it has been with DJ out and Roberson likely not playing the rest of the year.

Offensive strength is running the ball. There are 4 backs that bring something different to the table and that, overall, have been utilzied well.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 26, 2011

I hope GJ doesn't play but suspect he will.

The leading tackler will be back for this game as will CB Rose.

On defense, the biggest weakness has been our DB's... of course we have played 3 top 5 teams all of whom have outstanding offenses.
Defensive strength is in the LB's and the DL has actually played very well.

On offense, the biggest weakness has actually been passing. Burnham has stepped up in a big way and James has looked good. WR corps certainly not what it has been with DJ out and Roberson likely not playing the rest of the year.
Offensive strength is running the ball. There are 4 backs that bring something different to the table and that, overall, have been utilzied well.

TU's got two really good safeties; it's the inexperience at CB that is killing them. The safeties can't cover everyone. And, to compensate for the lack of experience at CB, they can't blitz as often.

Weatherdemon, I got my grad degree at Tulsa and went up to the OU game during UNT's bye week. Seemed to me like the defense was less aggressive than it was under Graham. Was that just because it was OU, or has that held true for the other three games as well?

J.C. Watts' son seems to be a pretty good player for you all. Figured OU would have offered him a scholie on his name alone! We had one of Thomas Lott's sons play for us. Last year was his senior year.

Hopeful · September 26, 2011

UNT has to be perfect to have a shot in this game. Thompson has to continue to improve and hit open receivers. Cant have the turnovers or the lapses in focus anymore. They have to defend the run, and the deep ball better than they have all year. The coaches need a good game plan and have to be prepaired, no more issues like the indiana onside kick, or not being ready to challenge calls. Probably need a little luck too. Its going to be a tough one. Im happy we beat Indiana, a win is a win, but lets face it...that wasnt a very good team over there and they still almost came back. Tulsa will be head and shoulders above them so the mean green must be better. Im not ignoring the improvements we had in last game, just saying its going to take more.

NCMeanGreen · September 26, 2011

This game will be close.

NT 24

Tulsa 27

tulsahurricane12 · September 27, 2011

Oklahoma State and Boise State ran up big leads on them before calling off the dogs.

G.J. Kinne is gimpy, can't run. Damaris Johnson is gone. Charles Clay graduated. Both starting corners out. Leading tackler from two years ago out. Todd Graham and the more experienced coaching staff is gone.

I'm telling you, TU is there for the taking. Play a game like we did on Saturday, and we will route Tulsa at their house.

We are getting one of those CBs back this week. A transfer from UCLA. And the leading tackler from two years ago we are also getting back this week. So that will help the defense alot. My guess is Kinne will not play in this game to let him heal up for conference play. Our back up Henderson shows good potential, just doesnt have very many snaps.

I do have to say though, OSU didnt call the dogs off at all. they left their starting D in the whole game, and most of the starting O.

Weatherdemon · September 27, 2011

TU's got two really good safeties; it's the inexperience at CB that is killing them. The safeties can't cover everyone. And, to compensate for the lack of experience at CB, they can't blitz as often.

Weatherdemon, I got my grad degree at Tulsa and went up to the OU game during UNT's bye week. Seemed to me like the defense was less aggressive than it was under Graham. Was that just because it was OU, or has that held true for the other three games as well?

J.C. Watts' son seems to be a pretty good player for you all. Figured OU would have offered him a scholie on his name alone! We had one of Thomas Lott's sons play for us. Last year was his senior year.

The leading tackler from 2 years ago, sorry. He didn't play last year due to academics and was hurt early in fall camp this year.

You are right on about the safeties and CB's. All of their inexperience and mistakes have been highlighted by Landry, Weeden, Moore and their WR corps.

Getting these two guys back will help that out some.

Our D is not as aggressive in terms of going for the kill every down. It seems to be more strategic and, against OU, was designed strictly to make OU have to drive down the field. And it worked. Against OSU, It was designed to stop Blackmon, which it did but it let Moore and some other guys run wild.

Against Boise, we decided to make them beat us via the pass and hoped we could pressure the QB. We slowed their run game down enough to make a difference and actually got some pressure on Moore and sacked their back up (the first sack allowed by Boise this year) but our DB's needed to be able to contain for another .5-1 second and just couldn't do it. Moore is also the most accurate passer I have seen in a long time. Even when he knows he's .5 seconds from getting laid out.

I actually like this defensive scheme better than what we've had the several years. We are surprisingly good at stopping the run and against teams other than the three top 5 teams we've played and Houston, we should be able to contain most teams passing attacks enough to give ourselves a chance.

This new scheme seems more sound and relies less on bringing the house every down. It's more organized, methodical, sound and doesn't leaving me asking, "WTH was that?" very often as guys seems to be in the right spots more often.

On offense we are really struggling to find a replacement for DJ. Burnham is the deep guy that has looked good as well as James. Roberson, a solid possession reciever broke his foot in the off season and has tried to play twice, most recently vs. Boise, but as hobbled off the field. I don't expect to see him back this year. The rest, like you said, are our RB's.

If GJ isn't healthy and plays again, Tulsa will struggle to move the ball. Our play calling without DJ and with GJ injured is still maturing and not quite there yet.

Hope that answers your questions

Edited September 27, 2011 by Weatherdemon

Harry · September 27, 2011

The leading tackler from 2 years ago, sorry. He didn't play last year due to academics and was hurt early in fall camp this year.

You are right on about the safeties and CB's. All of their inexperience and mistakes have been highlighted by Landry, Weeden, Moore and their WR corps.
Getting these two guys back will help that out some.

Our D is not as aggressive in terms of going for the kill every down. It seems to be more strategic and, against OU, was designed strictly to make OU have to drive down the field. And it worked. Against OSU, It was designed to stop Blackmon, which it did but it let Moore and some other guys run wild.
Against Boise, we decided to make them beat us via the pass and hoped we could pressure the QB. We slowed their run game down enough to make a difference and actually got some pressure on Moore and sacked their back up (the first sack allowed by Boise this year) but our DB's needed to be able to contain for another .5-1 second and just couldn't do it. Moore is also the most accurate passer I have seen in a long time. Even when he knows he's .5 seconds from getting laid out.

I actually like this defensive scheme better than what we've had the several years. We are surprisingly good at stopping the run and against teams other than the three top 5 teams we've played and Houston, we should be able to contain most teams passing attacks enough to give ourselves a chance.
This new scheme seems more sound and relies less on bringing the house every down. It's more organized, methodical, sound and doesn't leaving me asking, "WTH was that?" very often as guys seems to be in the right spots more often.

On offense we are really struggling to find a replacement for DJ. Burnham is the deep guy that has looked good as well as James. Roberson, a solid possession reciever broke his foot in the off season and has tried to play twice, most recently vs. Boise, but as hobbled off the field. I don't expect to see him back this year. The rest, like you said, are our RB's.
If GJ isn't healthy and plays again, Tulsa will struggle to move the ball. Our play calling without DJ and with GJ injured is still maturing and not quite there yet.

Hope that answers your questions

Thanks for your insight as always Weatherdeamon.

Weatherdemon · September 27, 2011

Harry,

you're welcome.

But, I forgot to address the RB's.

Watts has looked really, really good as has Douglas. Watts is shifty and has some speed but Douglas is the speed guy. If he can turn the corner, he has the speed to take it to the house like he did in his 80 yard run vs OSU. Problem is, he doesn't make it around the end enough.

Carter has done OK but hasn't "broken out" just yet. Still more of a screen pass guy.

Singleton is a hoss and is good for 2-4 yards 80% of the time. Has enough speed to go for 20-40 if he gets past the DL and LB's but against most teams he won't have the speed to take it to the house.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · September 27, 2011

Carter did well against OU. In fact, had he more speed, he'd have scored three times. I guess after tape of him getting wide open against OU got out, the other schools made sure he was accounted for.

At times, it seemed like OU totally ignored him. You just rarely see guys as wide open as he was that game.

Weatherdemon · September 27, 2011

Carter did well against OU. In fact, had he more speed, he'd have scored three times. I guess after tape of him getting wide open against OU got out, the other schools made sure he was accounted for.

At times, it seemed like OU totally ignored him. You just rarely see guys as wide open as he was that game.

Yea, Carter has been who they seem to be trying to feature and is liked a lot by most of the fans. He is certainly trying to be more the h-back Clay was. We have started to use Sears and while an effective TE, he seems to be an afterthought to GJ.

I would like too see two of the four RB's emerge and be consistently very good but they still seem to be taking turns.

That said, we have shown we run the ball effectively with any combination of these guys.

Comet7745 · September 27, 2011

I think it wont be until Tulsa starts playing more of their conference games that we'll know how good they are/could have been. They had a brutal first month. Very few programs in this country would be able to walk out of that month without limping.