I can't believe that I am going to say this...

[stebo]

UTSA is doing much better (in terms of support) than I thought they would. They have leveled out at about 30K for attendance with the city supplying a good portion of those fans. My girlfriend is from San Antonio and when I first told her about the start up football program down there, she dismissed it. Yesterday some of her old friends went to the game and they were won over. It looks like the city will support it - as opposed to the UTSA basketball team - because they are playing in the Alamo Dome, so the city is treating it like a pro team. And if they start winning and playing name teams, that attendance will go up....

So I can't believe that I am going to say this but the Belt should really consider UTSA for membership. If we don't, they will find a home somewhere. The WAC is not going to make it through this mess so UTSA will need a home when they transition. Let them make the move up with the WAC and when they start to move up the rankings, invite them to the Belt. They would jump all over that invite (just like La Tech will) - the WAC will be dessimated with no tv, no BCS membership, and no bowl opportunities after this year.

That would give us the 12 teams:

East:

FIU

FAU

Troy

MT

WKU

USA

(divisional play would open up opportunities to increase rivalries)

West:

ASU

La Tech

ULM

Louisiana

North Texas

UTSA

(three Louisiana schools, two in Texas, and one Arkansas school that is an easy drive up the Interstate)

This is an old map - from when UNO and Denver were still in the league - but you can see how both La Tech and UTSA would fall nicely into our footprint. Any money that we would lose be splitting the pie into more pieces will be more than saved by the geography of this regional play. Of course, La Tech might demand to be in the West or East specifically to stay away from ULM - but I would take a hard stance against any concessions to them. They will need us much more than we will need them. If they won't play ball, we bring in Texas State-San Marcos instead. NMSU is just too freaking far away (but I would love to schedule them for an OOC series).

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[greenminer]

How does Texas State do in attendance?

[All About UNT]

No to either team..... just wait until UTSA is playing a team with more than 800 students attending it's school. These guys are a joke and will lose for years to come.

[UNTLifer]

UTSA got beat by D3 McMurry, who gave up 89 points to SFA earlier in the year. They played Bacone yesterday. Who in the world is that?

[McKinneyMiner]

How does Texas State do in attendance?

Last year Texas St. averaged 12,805 in a 16,000 seat stadium...

Their student enrollment is 30,816...

[UNT90]

No

[Green Mean]

Ditto to AAU and Lifer. I looked up Bacone College and their enrollment is 900 students. If there is one school I truly do not mind adding that is Texas State. I feel there are a lot of similarities there school wise and I think it could be the start of a great instate rivalry between two really big and on the rise public schools.

For now say no to UTSA. Let them go through lots of pain and agony and make them earn their stripes.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Green Mean

[Mean Green Matt]

I would actually be for adding Texas State right now because we have history with them, and it would be a good rivalry. UTSA doesn't have history....as a football team.

I am fine with not adding either, but if I had to pick one, it would be Texas State without a doubt.

[stebo]

No to either team..... just wait until UTSA is playing a team with more than 800 students attending it's school. These guys are a joke and will lose for years to come.

My post was not about their win yesterday over Bacone - it was their attendance and the atmosphere. Look, any school can spend enough money to get a winning team on the field. We have seen that time and time again. The most difficult part of playing big time college football is getting butts into the seats to watch the game (as was evident in our 21K attendance yesterday against a Big 10 team). If UTSA can get 32K for an NAIA school named "Bacone" - how many will show up when a real opponent comes to town? I have been adament that those guys would fail because of how bad the city has supported UTSA over the years in terms of basketball support... and the general attitude about UTSA down in SA. But the perception is changing. Football is bringing credibility to that campus. Look up some pictures of their games - they are all wearing UTSA gear, painted up, tailgating - their fans are acting like a fan base that has been around for decades.

I was talking to NM Green before the game yesterday and we both agreed that it is sometimes better to have no history than bad history... those guys do not have decades of apathy to overcome because their was nothing to be mad about. And the city is supporting them just like El Paso supports UTEP.

[Mean Green Matt]

My post was not about their win yesterday over Bacone - it was their attendance and the atmosphere. Look, any school can spend enough money to get a winning team on the field. We have seen that time and time again. The most difficult part of playing big time college football is getting butts into the seats to watch the game (as was evident in our 21K attendance yesterday against a Big 10 team). If UTSA can get 32K for an NAIA school named "Bacone" - how many will show up when a real opponent comes to town? I have been adament that those guys would fail because of how bad the city has supported UTSA over the years in terms of basketball support... and the general attitude about UTSA down in SA. But the perception is changing. Football is bringing credibility to that campus. Look up some pictures of their games - they are all wearing UTSA gear, painted up, tailgating - their fans are acting like a fan base that has been around for decades.

I was talking to NM Green before the game yesterday and we both agreed that it is sometimes better to have no history than bad history... those guys do not have decades of apathy to overcome because their was nothing to be mad about. And the city is supporting them just like El Paso supports UTEP.

I may not be thinking about it the right way, but I don't think a big name opponent is going to draw many more fans. People are showing up right now to see UTSA, and do not care who the other team is. The numbers will drop as losses pile up over the next two years, but they could be playing FBS teams right now, and I think the numbers would still be around 30k.

[Rudy]

IF they will only schedule FBS teams with no more than one FCS game per year, then we should consider both when the WACky folds.

[stebo]

I may not be thinking about it the right way, but I don't think a big name opponent is going to draw many more fans. People are showing up right now to see UTSA, and do not care who the other team is. The numbers will drop as losses pile up over the next two years, but they could be playing FBS teams right now, and I think the numbers would still be around 30k.

It is very hard to explain the San Antonio culture. When the city buys in, they lock onto the team and do not let go. There is a large latino population that has chosen to support the team. They are getting the support from the city - not from the alumni. They have sold 10K season tickets and since they play in the Alamo Bowl, they have beer sold at the concession stands - just like a pro game. This is their NFL team now - that was what the school set out to build and somehow they have pulled it off.

The one thing that student fees and higher athletic budgets cannot buy is support. SMU spends millions and millions each year trying to give away tickets to get people in the games - they still don't come. UTSA has somehow rallied the city of San Antonio behind the program. I think their attendance will level out at 30K and go up with success. Just do a search for some game pics - it is one hell of a party down there on game day.

[UNTLifer]

UTSA's relationship with their fans is similar to that of a young man and a new girlfriend. Their eyes are full of lust at the newness of everything, but over time they start to see each other's flaws and head in opposite directions. If they maintain 30,000 through the completion of this season and into next year, then maybe, but looking at the rest of their schedule, they probably aren't going to win again unless they be Minot State in their last game. San Houston and South Alabama will kill them.

[stebo]

UTSA's relationship with their fans is similar to that of a young man and a new girlfriend. Their eyes are full of lust at the newness of everything, but over time they start to see each other's flaws and head in opposite directions. If they maintain 30,000 through the completion of this season and into next year, then maybe, but looking at the rest of their schedule, they probably aren't going to win again unless they be Minot State in their last game. San Houston and South Alabama will kill them.

Completely agree. I have been adamently against UTSA going FBS and being considered for Sun Belt membership - for all the reasons stated in this thread and others... but they are surprising me. There is very little competition for the sports entertainment dollar in San Antonio - they have the Spurs and that is it. I didn't think that the city would rally around them because UTSA has always been kind of a joke down there. But they are developing a pride in that program. My post included a statement that they should continue to move up in the WAC until they see success and then get consideration. The needle has moved from "absolutely not" to "maybe someday" for me.

And Rudy - not sure if you have been following their progress; but this is literally their first year of football (at any level) so they naturally have NAIA and Div III, II, and FCS on their schedule to build up the team. They are making a quick transition (partially at the WAC's request) and will be playing FBS and FCS games next year - with a regular FBS schedule in 2013.

[UNTflyer]

Raid the WAC. Invite NMSU, LA Tech, and Utah State. We don't need UT-SA or TSU-SM.

[meangreenbob]

UTSA is doing much better (in terms of support) than I thought they would. They have leveled out at about 30K for attendance with the city supplying a good portion of those fans. My girlfriend is from San Antonio and when I first told her about the start up football program down there, she dismissed it. Yesterday some of her old friends went to the game and they were won over. It looks like the city will support it - as opposed to the UTSA basketball team - because they are playing in the Alamo Dome, so the city is treating it like a pro team. And if they start winning and playing name teams, that attendance will go up....

So I can't believe that I am going to say this but the Belt should really consider UTSA for membership. If we don't, they will find a home somewhere. The WAC is not going to make it through this mess so UTSA will need a home when they transition. Let them make the move up with the WAC and when they start to move up the rankings, invite them to the Belt. They would jump all over that invite (just like La Tech will) - the WAC will be dessimated with no tv, no BCS membership, and no bowl opportunities after this year.

That would give us the 12 teams:

East:

FIU

FAU

Troy

MT

WKU

USA

(divisional play would open up opportunities to increase rivalries)

West:

ASU

La Tech

ULM

Louisiana

North Texas

UTSA

(three Louisiana schools, two in Texas, and one Arkansas school that is an easy drive up the Interstate)

This is an old map - from when UNO and Denver were still in the league - but you can see how both La Tech and UTSA would fall nicely into our footprint. Any money that we would lose be splitting the pie into more pieces will be more than saved by the geography of this regional play. Of course, La Tech might demand to be in the West or East specifically to stay away from ULM - but I would take a hard stance against any concessions to them. They will need us much more than we will need them. If they won't play ball, we bring in Texas State-San Marcos instead. NMSU is just too freaking far away (but I would love to schedule them for an OOC series).

I agree with you 100%. Isn't it amazing how UNT grads belittle UTSA? Lets see, we play a Big Ten team at home and draw a whopping 21,000. UTSA plays Bacone and draws over 30,000.

Go figure.

[GTWT]

I want to play Texas universities. I would rather those schools be Houston, Rice, & TCU but if that ain't gonna happen I prefer playing UTSA & SWTSU than FAU, MTSU, & Troy.

God bless Texas!

[meangreenbob]

The other thing to think about is if the Belt adds UTSA and LaTech and the WAC folds eliminating many current FBS teams it might give the Sun Belt a better chance of being included as a AQ conference when the shake up happens.

Edited September 25, 2011 by meangreenbob

[GTWT]

The other thing to think about is if the Belt adds UTSA and LaTech and the WAC folds eliminating many current FBS teams it might give the Sun Belt a better chance of being included as a AQ conference when the shake up happens.

You, sir, are a master of humor!

Edited September 25, 2011 by GTWT

[Denia Park Pedro]

While I'm all in favor of going to divisions for the cost savings and championship game, I don't see why we should add a middling program in northern LA when we already have a program that fits that description. Almost every possible candidate makes more sense to me than La Tech.

[ColoradoEagle]

The other thing to think about is if the Belt adds UTSA and LaTech and the WAC folds eliminating many current FBS teams it might give the Sun Belt a better chance of being included as a AQ conference when the shake up happens.

[mgfan]

I don't see the attendance of UTSA going down anytime soon. Talked to a friend from SA, he said the city has been waiting for football and now that they have it they are excited and getting behind the team.

[glick1980]

I don't see the attendance of UTSA going down anytime soon. Talked to a friend from SA, he said the city has been waiting for football and now that they have it they are excited and getting behind the team.

I wonder how excited they will be when UTSA loses by 70 at home to any of the FBS teams they play next year.

[Aquila_Viridis]

We get a big win over a Big 10 program and you are talking about UTSA?????? Whose side are you on?

[rcade]

I'd love to see UTSA and Texas State in the Sun Belt. UNT needs some in-state rivals.