West Virginia receives "no thanks" from SEC, ACC

[Comet7745]

TCU is definitely more visible than it was 10 years ago, however I don't see people actually wearing TCU apparel that often in the North Dallas area. I actually don't even see it as often as people wearing UNT gear. Now maybe things are vastly different in Ft. Worth, but it just shows that the two private schools will never generate the level of interest that a large state school does in this area.

That said, I have no idea what UNT will do in the next 10 years. We could be sitting at the same spot we are today in 2021, but I don't think I have to say how much I hope that's not the case. If we can get to that level of success and win one of the BCS bowls, I think you'll be shocked with the number of fans in DFW. That would be the dream, anyway.

Keep in mind that during all this TCU was stuck in a crap conference. If TCU was pulling in Texas, TT, A&M, Notre Dame, Baylor, OU, etc, there would be a LOT more buzz in the area for them. Once more, I think the whole public vs. private isn't nearly as relevant as the fact that TCU is stuck playing in the MWC against UNM, Wyoming, and other crap teams for the majority of their schedule. I'm not arguing that all of DFW will go crazy with Frog fever, but the fandom would definitely be amplified. Same thing if SMU started winning and got in a conference with their old SWC rivals. And to your point, same thing with North Texas if they ever got to that level. There's only so much excitement you'll get from the area if you're playing nobody teams week in and week out.

SMU in CUSA= NO CHANCE for a UNT entry EVER

If it makes you feel better, Texas in Big XII = NO CHANCE for SMU to ever upgrade It's a vicious cycle of greed.

[GrayEagle]

The problem is that the alums of the Big 12 schools already deliver the DFW market. Unfortunately, I don't see that as a bargaining chip.

With A&M leaving I doubt that will be true. There are over 100,000 UNT graduates in the DFW market. Add in students, families of those alumni and a similar number that attended but did not graduate and the figure becomes larger than any other university. There are more than if we were the only college in most medium markets.

Most will be less than lukewarm if we stay in the Sun Belt but the Big 12 would be another story. I could see interest increase fivefold.

You don't "deliver" a market this large when there are no teams in the area and only one game played here. Put us in the SEC and see who dominates this market. If you have a competitive team it's all about the conference/who you play plus the market where you are located. We need to sell that; not give in.

Edited September 21, 2011 by GrayEagle

[PlummMeanGreen]

Keep in mind that during all this TCU was stuck in a crap conference. If TCU was pulling in Texas, TT, A&M, Notre Dame, Baylor, OU, etc, there would be a LOT more buzz in the area for them. Once more, I think the whole public vs. private isn't nearly as relevant as the fact that TCU is stuck playing in the MWC against UNM, Wyoming, and other crap teams for the majority of their schedule. I'm not arguing that all of DFW will go crazy with Frog fever, but the fandom would definitely be amplified. Same thing if SMU started winning and got in a conference with their old SWC rivals. And to your point, same thing with North Texas if they ever got to that level. There's only so much excitement you'll get from the area if you're playing nobody teams week in and week out.

If it makes you feel better, Texas in Big XII = NO CHANCE for SMU to ever upgrade It's a vicious cycle of greed.

And sadly enough as all the Presidents of all the Big Time U's sit in their Ivory Towers and play Monopoly with their athletic department toys it's the fans and the parents of all our school's respective football players who are the ultimate losers in all this.

How can a HS recruit's parents from Tatum, Texas, who signed his letter of intent with UT ever make a trip to the West Coast to watch the Horns play the Trojans of USC?

And it's not SMU who has been our problem for the most part--we have been our problem if you look at what we've done with our roller coaster ride of the last 2 decades or so.

With Fouts Field we really never had a prayer to advance but----with our ultra modern Taj Mahal (as Gil Brandt called her) of a college football stadium, ie, Apogee Stadium.... we at least have a prayer (and maybe some friends in high places who will help us put foot's into those prayers).

GMG!

Edited September 21, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

[tylermeangreen]

"I'm not arguing that all of DFW will go crazy with Frog fever, but the fandom would definitely be amplified. Same thing if SMU started winning and got in a conference with their old SWC rivals."

I took a former SMU football player to the Apogee Stadium opening game against Houston. He was a star for SMU in the 60s; played for Hayden Fry; his picture is mounted in Ford Stadium; he has remained a season ticket holder for SMU football games ever since he completed his eligibility; he is a graduate of SMU; he loves the University for the contribution it has made to his station in life; and he simply loves SMU.

During the game he told me that while he wishes it were not true, he truly believes that SMU will never again be a big player in college football. He maintains that SMU will always pull its customary 20,000 30,000 fans (depending upon who they are playing) because Dallas AND Metroplex football fans will never find an identity with SMU even when SMU is having winning seasons.

Why I asked? His response: Because of the culture that is SMU and its students/alumni.

He told me about going to a game last year with a former SMU teammate. As they looked around Ford Stadium, my friend pointed to a group of SMU students/alumni /fans and then pointed to a group of students/alumni/fans supporting the opposing universitys team.

My friend told his former teammate See the sedate SMU students and fans in their starched shirts and khakis? Now look at the other teams fans their loud, fanatical support; wearing t-shirts supporting their team; loaded down with gear with their teams logo on it. THAT is why SMU will never again be relevant among fans in college sports other than among SMUs students and alumni the Universitys culture, image and fan base does not attract Metroplex sports fans.

I really have no dog in this hunt as it relates to SMU I was a great fan of SMU back in the days of Don Meredith and later Jerry Levias lots of admiration for both of them but I was also an SMU fan because I was a Methodist and because several of my high school friends played football for Hayden Fry at SMU. But I think this friend may well have pointed out the cultural reason (or lets be up-front here the elitist image that IS SMU) why SMU will never reach a level of sports fan support beyond where it is now.

Edited September 21, 2011 by tylermeangreen

[untjim1995]

With A&M leaving I doubt that will be true. There are over 100,000 UNT graduates in the DFW market. Add in students, families of those alumni and a similar number that attended but did not graduate and the figure becomes larger than any other university. There are more than if we were the only college in most medium markets.

Most will be less than lukewarm if we stay in the Sun Belt but the Big 12 would be another story. I could see interest increase fivefold.

You don't "deliver" a market this large when there are no teams in the area and only one game played here. Put us in the SEC and see who dominates this market. If you have a competitive team it's all about the conference/who you play plus the market where you are located. We need to sell that; not give in.

Of those 100k alums, how many have ever watched a UNT Football game? I think that is the problem. Maybe some of them watched us play A&M or Tech at Texas Stadium, maybe some of them have watched us play Texas, SMU or TCU, and maybe even some of them went to NO Bowls. But the majority of those alums haven't cared to come back to watch a game because they probably didn't watch a game in person when they were here in college. The 1-aa fiasco lost a lot of casual fans, the Big West/SBC return to 1-a created very little interest, and the "We are the cheapest option going" mindset created a community college feel to UNT for too many alums for decades. A lot has changed at UNT, but the alumni and the T-shirt fanbase in DFW of Texas, OU, A&M, Tech, and others will always surpass our influence because of who they play week in/week out and they have done something we have never done--capitalize on big alumni/student numbers. Even UH and UTEP have had success with this. We haven't yet.

And of course, if we played in a conference with programs that people have heard of and knew people that attended them would create a huge increase in interest, but no one ever wants us because we have nothing but potential to sell. Right now, if you read the Kansas City or St. Louis papers online, you'll see plenty of comments about not wanting another Texas school in the Big XII because it is harder for the northern schools to recruit against them for Texas HS recruits--this is why TCU will never get in the Big XII (their AD knows this , too, based on his mulitple comments regarding market delivery), nor will any other Texas school, unless UT leaves. Not only do the Texas Big XII schools want to avoid UH, TCU, SMU, etc.., the northern schools don't want them, either, because, essentially, they don't deliver anything to KU, Mizzou, or Iowa State the way Texas or Tech do. If you want to extrapolate this to other conferences, think of how the eastern CUSA schools are adamantly opposed to getting another Texas school in their conference because there are already 4 teams over here. That doesn't even count the current Texas schools in that conference not wanting another team to compete and recruit against UNT as a conference mate. The deals for conferences are all hinged on TV markets and as long as the networks believe that the DFW market is more than covered by other schools, the SBC will continue to be our home.

[UNT90]

TCU is definitely more visible than it was 10 years ago, however I don't see people actually wearing TCU apparel that often in the North Dallas area. I actually don't even see it as often as people wearing UNT gear. Now maybe things are vastly different in Ft. Worth, but it just shows that the two private schools will never generate the level of interest that a large state school does in this area.

That said, I have no idea what UNT will do in the next 10 years. We could be sitting at the same spot we are today in 2021, but I don't think I have to say how much I hope that's not the case. If we can get to that level of success and win one of the BCS bowls, I think you'll be shocked with the number of fans in DFW. That would be the dream, anyway.

TCU stuff is all over Fort Worth. You can't go to the grocery store without running into at least 2 or 3 people wearing their colors. I'm not talking grocery stores around campus, either. Im talking Hurst, Keller, Benbrook and the like.

As our friendly SMU posters says, that is what winning, and winning consistently, does for a program.

Oh, and what do you expect from a bunch of North Dallas D-bags