More Realignment

untjim1995 · September 19, 2011

They already have all the money. This is to make sure no one else gets any of it.

Latest I've heard is Mizzou, WVU and TCU join A&M in the SEC. This is getting crazy. Whoever described this a musical chairs is right.

Keith

TCU ain't joining the SEC. They would love to, but the invite will never be coming. Tthe SEC already has Vandy, who was grandfathered in. They don't need another small private school.

GrandGreen · September 19, 2011

Yes, the new realignments point to geography being of little concern; but I wonder how this will play out. I noticed UT had a great fan base at the Rose Bowl, but I wonder if that can be maintained over a long period. Costs mean much less to the UT's and A&M's but at some point it has to become a factor. The economics of football are such that sport can definitely be maintained with far flung conferences, but I wonder about the other sports. I think all this might eventually morph into regional conferences for the other sports; and national conferences for football.

I don't fear super conferences because I don't think they will have anything but a positive effect for NT. I don't see them breaking off from the rest of the NCAA and I don't see much possibility of them harming NT. They will stir the pot and hopefully open up opportunity for more compact conferences for the second tier.

foutsrouts · September 19, 2011

The bottom line to all of this, at least as far as I care, is that we have got to start winning NOW if we don't want to get left out of a potential new conference featuring Big 12 remnants along with Western USA teams. Somehow I think there will be major resistance from many of those schools in adding more than a very small percentage of SBC schools, and we certainly fit in both geographically and academically. The next two Saturday's in particular could prove to be very crucial for us, and we need to pack the place against Indiana.

Edited September 19, 2011 by foutsrouts

Rudy · September 20, 2011

Beebe needs to b working on this !! He is about to loose his 401k. Think about how many teams n the BIG 12 -2 are n the top 25. He should b fired!!!!!

Beebe did excatly as he was told by t.u. and he is getting stabbed in the back as a result. he should have seen it coming.

I was watching the Boise/Toledo game this past week, and a guy next to me said that he hated Boise. I asked why and he said, they're a good team, but they aren't that good. They couldn't compete week in and week out with the SEC. I asked what school he played for in the SEC and he said Vandy. I didn't have the heart to tell him that Vandy can't compete week in and out either. But his statement is representative of the bc$ mentality. "You can't compete with us, because you're not us. You will NEVER be as good as us."

UNTLifer · September 20, 2011

If we, we being the schools left out of the "super conferences," then we need to stop scheduling games against thme. Break the current contracts and stop scheduling any and all of them. I've disliked Texas forever, they've just elevated that to hate.

untjim1995 · September 20, 2011

If we, we being the schools left out of the "super conferences," then we need to stop scheduling games against thme. Break the current contracts and stop scheduling any and all of them. I've disliked Texas forever, they've just elevated that to hate.

I agree about the scheduling part, but I think it won't be difficult for the big schools to deal with this either. If they get their own playoff system set up, they can play each other all they want in OOC and never worry about not getting knocked out of the championship race.

ColoradoEagle · September 20, 2011

I agree about the scheduling part, but I think it won't be difficult for the big schools to deal with this either. If they get their own playoff system set up, they can play each other all they want in OOC and never worry about not getting knocked out of the championship race.

Yeah, but then all of the sudden you have teams like Washington State, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Indiana, etc going 0-12 or 1-11 year in and year out. I don't think that'd be very good for those schools' bottom lines, and then the whole realignment process starts over again.

untjim1995 · September 20, 2011

Yeah, but then all of the sudden you have teams like Washington State, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Indiana, etc going 0-12 or 1-11 year in and year out. I don't think that'd be very good for those schools' bottom lines, and then the whole realignment process starts over again.

Well, basically Baylor, Indiana, and Vandy are great examples of teams that have had records like this for years and their payouts have been more than enough to keep them happy. Baylor is suing everyone becasue of it. They don't want to go 10-2 in CUSA, they want to go 2-10 in the AQ league that pays them millions.

ColoradoEagle · September 20, 2011

Well, basically Baylor, Indiana, and Vandy are great examples of teams that have had records like this for years and their payouts have been more than enough to keep them happy. Baylor is suing everyone becasue of it. They don't want to go 10-2 in CUSA, they want to go 2-10 in the AQ league that pays them millions.

Yes, but logically, you're going to have more teams dropping to that level in a 16 team conference. Teams that are right on the edge most years, like say Texas Tech or Oklahoma State, all of the sudden become also rans on the level of Baylor and Vandy currently. Then what? Where do you think those two teams honestly land in a 16 team conference that includes USC, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, Arizona State, Washington, UT-Austin, and Oklahoma? My guess is more losses than wins.

untjim1995 · September 20, 2011

Yes, but logically, you're going to have more teams dropping to that level in a 16 team conference. Teams that are right on the edge most years, like say Texas Tech or Oklahoma State, all of the sudden become also rans on the level of Baylor and Vandy currently. Then what? Where do you think those two teams honestly land in a 16 team conference that includes USC, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, Arizona State, Washington, UT-Austin, and Oklahoma? My guess is more losses than wins.

Youre probably right about this, but the $$$ gained more than make up for the losses on the field/court to each of those schools. Right now, they are projecting Pac-16 payouts of over $30 million per school, based off of the revenues that could be made on all of their TV contracts, bowl games, BCS money, etc.. Texas Tech will gladly take that, even if they go 4-8. It beats the hell out of 12-0 and 5-10 million per year as the winner of the MWC.

Mean Green 93-98 · September 20, 2011

If we, we being the schools left out of the "super conferences," then we need to stop scheduling games against thme. Break the current contracts and stop scheduling any and all of them. I've disliked Texas forever, they've just elevated that to hate.

That would be the definitive "cutting off your nose to spite your face." Sure, it might hurt some of the teams in larger conferences, but refusing to play them would hurt us worse. It has been noted time and again that our failure to schedule "name" opponents (especially at home) hurts fan interest and attendance. It would also make clearer in everybody's minds that we are not close to being in a class with the big boys.

untjim1995 · September 20, 2011

That would be the definitive "cutting off your nose to spite your face." Sure, it might hurt some of the teams in larger conferences, but refusing to play them would hurt us worse. It has been noted time and again that our failure to schedule "name" opponents (especially at home) hurts fan interest and attendance. It would also make clearer in everybody's minds that we are not close to being in a class with the big boys.

Getting those "name" schools here is the key. Sure, LSU and Bama play us down there and give us a million to do it. Getting them to come here and play when Jerry Jones will buy them a game here in the Metroplex is difficult to overcome.

Mean Green 93-98 · September 20, 2011

Getting those "name" schools here is the key. Sure, LSU and Bama play us down there and give us a million to do it. Getting them to come here and play when Jerry Jones will buy them a game here in the Metroplex is difficult to overcome.

I really didn't have elite schools like Bama and LSU in mind. As a matter of fact, I'd be fine if we quit playing games like that anyhow. But, as mentioned in another thread, scheduling teams like Baylor, Ole Miss, Kentucky, Maryland, the Kansas schools, etc., is what we need to try to do. To say "We're gonna get y'all in the superconferences good by not scheduling you" and replacing them with weenie teams does not really help our cause.

cdizzle86 · September 20, 2011

I really didn't have elite schools like Bama and LSU in mind. As a matter of fact, I'd be fine if we quit playing games like that anyhow. But, as mentioned in another thread, scheduling teams like Baylor, Ole Miss, Kentucky, Maryland, the Kansas schools, etc., is what we need to try to do. To say "We're gonna get y'all in the superconferences good by not scheduling you" and replacing them with weenie teams does not really help our cause.

This brings up an similar idea. Instead of refusing to play all super-conference schools, what if we chose to only play the tier 2 schools within the super-conferences. This would still give us some winnable games, give tier 2 schools more winnable games, and be a big middle finger to the Alabama's, UT's, Floridas, etc.

MeanGreenGlory · September 20, 2011

Just out of honest and naive curiosity...what would happen if the Sun Belt added schools to make a 16 team conference?

ColoradoEagle · September 20, 2011

Just out of honest and naive curiosity...what would happen if the Sun Belt added schools to make a 16 team conference?

I don't see it as being possible. The highest number the SBC could get to currently is 14, short of CUSA imploding or sponsoring FCS teams moving up.

GTWT · September 20, 2011

Just out of honest and naive curiosity...what would happen if the Sun Belt added schools to make a 16 team conference?

Any school that would choose to join the SBC is a school that UNT has no business being associated with.

God bless Texas

PlummMeanGreen · September 20, 2011

Any school that would choose to join the SBC is a school that UNT has no business being associated with.

God bless Texas

Wholeheartedly concur...we can't dummy ourselves down to schools who are not of our equal just so

they will fit some cookie cutter conference. Our UNT president needs to insure that this does not happen as he and the UNT BOR's also need to approve all future home OOC games at Apogee. If we don't raise ourselves up it's for damn sure those who most of our alums say

they want a conference association will ever want to. We really don't won't to get too complacent

with our having this new "fabulous" stadium or we will find ourselves going nowhere (significant) for another 25 years.

We have not beaten a ranked team since 1974, folks. That fact was presented to me just the other day and

it all but depressed me. Of course, we all hope Coach Dan McCarney will be the main man whose football program will change that, too. Most of us see that the potential for that to happen is for certain there with Coach Mac.

Yet greed begats greed begats greed begats greed.

The Big Boys of the NCAA seem to want to cook the goose that has laid their golden eggs. I don't understand why they are so intent in class warfare among the rest of us. We recognize their greatness, ie, elitism, but I guess they have become tired of Communism 101: "Take from the rich, ie, the Big Boys and ---give to the poor." (use your imagination with who that group would be at the moment)

Also, the Big Boys don't seem concerned with traveling fans from opponent's schools since most

of their schools seem to sell out their stadiums with their own fans.

I don't like this any more than the rest of you. The Big Boys should just leave well enough alone, dammit.

Is not their Big 6 conferences enough for them to feel so damn "la-tee-dah" exclusive as it is?

Maybe the rest of us should just quit putting them on our schedules, let them only play each other and then have a bunch of their teams with 6 & 5 or 5 & 6 records and watch their coaching turnovers begin en mass because of it.

The first re-alignment began almost right after Fry left Denton when a couple years or so later NCAA D1-AA was born. Most

of us hated that back then more than many of you recently graduated alums would ever know. We lost a bunch of what used to be very

familiar MG fans almost the day 1-AA was born, too. They threw their hands up and raised their white flags. The rest of our alums apparently thought 1-AA was minor league and wanted no part of it, either.

I hate what is happening to College football because a bunch of Big Boy AD's are apparently bored to tears with their toys and are enjoying the hell out of playing Monopoly with what may turn out to be about 40 other school's expense (and futures as well)--many of that 40 who might be defrocked presently considered a Big Boy in one of the Big 6 conferences. Can these AD's tell us their real objectives with all thisor do we already really know?

GMG!

Edited September 20, 2011 by Harry

foutsrouts · September 20, 2011

Just out of honest and naive curiosity...what would happen if the Sun Belt added schools to make a 16 team conference?

San Antonio, San Marcos, LA Tech, NMSU, USU, and Idaho/Lamar/UTA/GA Southern. We could lose a couple to the MAC, so there's no telling how many we would need to add. Can't say it would make me happy, but it sure sounds familiar. :angry:

CaribbeanGreen · September 21, 2011

We have not beaten a ranked team since 1974, folks. That fact was presented to me just the other day and
it all but depressed me. Of course, we all hope Coach Dan McCarney will be the main man whose football program will change that, too. Most of us see that the potential for that to happen is for certain there with Coach Mac.

What ranked team did we beat in 1974? We had two wins that year, the most impressive over the Pacific Coast Athletic Conference's San Diego State Aztecs.

If you mistyped, and are referring to the oh-so-referenced Tennessee game in 1975, The Volunteers had a disappointing 5 loss season with no bowl bid, at at the time NT defeated them, they had already dropped 2 of the previous 4 games and were not ranked in the AP poll (they would finish the season unranked as well).

And assuming you were referring to the Tennessee game per usual, the 1975 NT team did not win a single other game over a team with a winning record that entire season - other wins came against the likes of Drake, WTAMU, Cal Poly-Pomona, and UTA (all which had losing records, even at their low level of competition).

To hold that team and that win up as the gold standard of NT football is fallacy, especially in light of accomplishments made since the mid-70's. I hope we get "back" to far more than that.

Edited September 21, 2011 by CaribbeanGreen

PlummMeanGreen · September 21, 2011

What ranked team did we beat in 1974? We had two wins that year, the most impressive over the Pacific Coast Athletic Conference's San Diego State Aztecs.

If you mistyped, and are referring to the oh-so-referenced Tennessee game in 1975, The Volunteers had a disappointing 5 loss season with no bowl bid, at at the time NT defeated them, they had already dropped 2 of the previous 4 games and were not ranked in the AP poll (they would finish the season unranked as well).

And assuming you were referring to the Tennessee game per usual, the 1975 NT team did not win a single other game over a team with a winning record that entire season - other wins came against the likes of Drake, WTAMU, Cal Poly-Pomona, and UTA (all which had losing records, even at their low level of competition).

To hold that team and that win up as the gold standard of NT football is fallacy, especially in light of accomplishments made since the mid-70's. I hope we get "back" to far more than that.

CaribbeanGreen, the San Diego State Aztecs were tied for 19'th or ranked 20'th that 1974 season and at the time we played them at Fouts Field.

Yes, you are right because the thing that made that win so huge was that North Texas (as linked below) "ONLY" won 2 games that season. Go figure...

NOTE: The San Diego State HFC was so mad after that loss that he kicked a Fouts Field vistors dressing room water cooler off the darn wall. :lol:

And Tennessee in deed had 5 losses but they also had 6 wins in the 1975 season, ie, the year North Texas beat the Vols in Knoxville. With 6 wins that would have created a scenario that the Mean Green actually beat an SEC bowl team if there were as many bowls back then as there are today.

1974 North Texas Mean Green

Coach:

Hayden Fry

Overall Record: 2-7-2 (0.273)

Home: 2-4

Away: 0-3-2

DateHome Team ScoreVisit TeamRecordLocationNotesA.P. PollSat, 9/14/1974 Southern Methodist 7 - 6 (L)North Texas0-1Sat, 9/21/1974 Tulsa 31 - 6 (L)North Texas0-2Sat, 9/28/1974 North Texas 7 - 27 (L)Lamar 0-3Sat, 10/5/1974 Drake 24 - 24 (T)North Texas0-3-1Sat, 10/12/1974 North Texas 10 - 24 (L)Louisville 0-4-1Denton, TXSat, 10/19/1974 North Texas 24 - 19 (W)New Mexico St.1-4-1Denton, TXSat, 10/26/1974 North Texas 0 - 41 (L)Memphis 1-5-1Denton, TXSat, 11/2/1974 North Texas 14 - 9 (W)San Diego St.2-5-1Sat, 11/9/1974 Wichita State 10 - 10 (T)North Texas2-5-2Sat, 11/16/1974 West Texas A&M 21 - 14 (L)North Texas2-6-2Sat, 11/23/1974 North Texas 19 - 35 (L)Long Beach State 2-7-2

Edited September 21, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

CaribbeanGreen · September 21, 2011

CaribbeanGreen, the San Diego State Aztecs were tied for 19'th or ranked 20'th that 1974 season and at the time we played them at Fouts Field.

Yes, you are right because the thing that made that win so huge was that North Texas (as linked below) "ONLY" won 2 games that season. Go figure...
NOTE: The San Diego State HFC was so mad after that loss that he kicked a Fouts Field vistors dressing room water cooler off the darn wall.

And Tennessee in deed had 5 losses that year but they also had 6 wins in 1975, ie, the year North Texas beat the Vols in Knoxville. With 6 wins that would have made it back then that the Mean Green actually beat an SEC bowl team if there were as many bowls back then as today.

1974 North Texas Mean Green 1975 >>
Coach:
Hayden Fry
Overall Record: 2-7-2 (0.273)
Home: 2-4
Away: 0-3-2

DateHome Team ScoreVisit TeamRecordLocationNotesA.P. PollSat, 9/14/1974 Southern Methodist 7 - 6 (L)North Texas0-1 Sat, 9/21/1974 Tulsa 31 - 6 (L)North Texas0-2 Sat, 9/28/1974 North Texas 7 - 27 (L)Lamar 0-3 Sat, 10/5/1974 Drake 24 - 24 (T)North Texas0-3-1 Sat, 10/12/1974 North Texas 10 - 24 (L)Louisville 0-4-1Denton, TX Sat, 10/19/1974 North Texas 24 - 19 (W)New Mexico St.1-4-1Denton, TX Sat, 10/26/1974 North Texas 0 - 41 (L)Memphis 1-5-1Denton, TX Sat, 11/2/1974 North Texas 14 - 9 (W)San Diego St.2-5-1 Sat, 11/9/1974 Wichita State 10 - 10 (T)North Texas2-5-2 Sat, 11/16/1974 West Texas A&M 21 - 14 (L)North Texas2-6-2 Sat, 11/23/1974 North Texas 19 - 35 (L)Long Beach State 2-7-2

Ah... so SDSU was ranked after the Long Beach State win for 1 week before losing to us. I didn't realize the "conference eventually known as the Big West" was even D1 at the time. We've probably had a few more impressive wins since then, wouldn't you say? Arbitrary rankings aren't always the end all be all.

Even with our rather limited history, you never hear alums talking about the "San Diego State Win"... Tennessee? Sure. Texas Tech? Sure. Even Baylor, Boise, and Nevada (not not mention the Texas loss). I just don't want to get too hung up on "rankings".

Also, while we're at it... what's the story with the last game of the 1977 season? We beat an undefeated Louisiana Tech team in our final game. Seems pretty cool, but I've literally NEVER heard it talked about.

PlummMeanGreen · September 21, 2011

Ah... so SDSU was ranked after the Long Beach State win for 1 week before losing to us. I didn't realize the "conference eventually known as the Big West" was even D1 at the time. We've probably had a few more impressive wins since then, wouldn't you say? Arbitrary rankings aren't always the end all be all.

Even with our rather limited history, you never hear alums talking about the "San Diego State Win"... Tennessee? Sure. Texas Tech? Sure. Even Baylor, Boise, and Nevada (not not mention the Texas loss). I just don't want to get too hung up on "rankings".

Also, while we're at it... what's the story with the last game of the 1977 season? We beat an undefeated Louisiana Tech team in our final game. Seems pretty cool, but I've literally NEVER heard it talked about.

Well, rankings still seems to be what we are all measured by even all these years later.

I know I would love some of those recent Boise State rankings and subsequent BCS Bowl Game appearances for the Broncos because of....high rankings. That is what I hope North Texas has as its barometer of success because I don't know any other barometer that could be used that would be considered significant. Just sayin'

And as I recall, that Mean Green win over La Tech in 1977 was a real shellacking of the 'Dawgs. I went to one of those games at Shrevesport, but I believe the 1977 game was played in Ruston.

Edited September 21, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

CaribbeanGreen · September 21, 2011

And as I recall, that Mean Green win over La Tech in 1977 was a real shellacking of the 'Dawgs. I went to one of those games
at Shrevesport, but I believe the 1977 game was played in Ruston.

Yup. 41-14 in Ruston. Only loss LT had all year (2 ties). Strange we don't hear more about that one.

Rudy · September 21, 2011

Yeah, but then all of the sudden you have teams like Washington State, Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, Indiana, etc going 0-12 or 1-11 year in and year out. I don't think that'd be very good for those schools' bottom lines, and then the whole realignment process starts over again.

Maybe that could be a good thing? We improve and put ourselves into a position to be more attractive if they decide to kick an underachieving big boy out?