Spoke with Coach Leonard

Army of Dad · September 14, 2011

There are few more, uh, vocal fans than my wife and I. We are cautiously optimistic about this season. Over the last few years, we have been privileged to watch the best UNT basketball in decades . We have watched a couple of classes of new freshmen come in, grow, win, and leave. Our entire family loves Mean Green basketball and we will be on hand to support this year's team. I imagine there will be stretches where they play like a bunch of young guys who don't know each other (and JJ will get pissed and sub a few guys out). There will also be stretches where we will just sit back in a amazement at their play (after sitting down from cheering a huge dunk or a timeout by the opposing coach trying to slow us down).

I think you can guarantee an exciting season, just not guarantee an NCAA playoff appearance. I do think we will play in a post season tournament, even if we have to buy our way in to one of the little two dances.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Army of Dad

CMJ · September 14, 2011

I'll just say you'd be hard pressed to find a more enthusiastic fan of the program than me. However, I am also a realist. Guaranteeing anything in a 1 bid league is borderline ridiculous. Especially when we are not a historical power in the sport (only WKU really is, and even they aren't as cocky as usual).

Given our talent, we'll be formidable come March. But 3 games in three days (or 4 in 4) is NEVER easy. Rolling through league play (especially on the road) is also never easy, even with elite teams. The last school that got an at-large bid from the Belt was four years ago.

UNT90 · September 14, 2011

I imagine there will be stretches where they play like a bunch of young guys who don't know each other (and JJ will get pissed and sub a few guys out). There will also be stretches where we will just sit back in a amazement at their play (after sitting down from cheering a huge dunk or a timeout by the opposing coach trying to slow us down).

Yep. This is what you get with young teams. Wouldn't surprise me to see us beat LSU (or a big maybe Texas), and then turn around and lose to a Sam Houston.

The most talented teams don't always win at the game of basketball. Something to keep in mind when playing in a one bid conference.

Green Lantern · September 14, 2011

The most talented teams don't always win at the game of basketball. Something to keep in mind when playing in a one bid conference.

Exactly! See last years SBC Tourney final for evidence of this.

GrandGreen · September 14, 2011

What is all the talk of guarantees, nothing is guaranteed; see last year's team. The debate is on expectations and I expect a lot more than a .500 Belt club with the coaching staff and the talent they have recruited. In the world of college bb, you can cite endless examples of teams of newcomers who have excelled and ones that have not. This team will have the talent to be very good, I think they will have a much better team than last year and can't wait to see what happens.

I

CMJ · September 14, 2011

UNTMike81 has already guaranteed a tournament berth GrandGreen.

I always try to keep my expectations reasonable, because it's better to be pleasantly surprised than bitterly disappointed. And I'm certainly not gonna have incredibly high expectations for a team that has mostly all new comers.

We might very well win the West. I certainly don't expect it though. We've never seen most of these kids ever suit up.

UCLA had the #1 recruiting class in the nation a few years ago. They also never did anything and mostly scattered within a couple of seasons. I don't care how "talented" we are on paper - until we see them on the floor - I am not gonna expect NCAA wins, Sunbelt Championships, or even Division championships.

Hell, we don't even know if we can beat UTA.

Edited September 14, 2011 by CMJ

GrandGreen · September 15, 2011

UNTMike81 has already guaranteed a tournament berth GrandGreen.

I always try to keep my expectations reasonable, because it's better to be pleasantly surprised than bitterly disappointed. And I'm certainly not gonna have incredibly high expectations for a team that has mostly all new comers.

We might very well win the West. I certainly don't expect it though. We've never seen most of these kids ever suit up.

UCLA had the #1 recruiting class in the nation a few years ago. They also never did anything and mostly scattered within a couple of seasons. I don't care how "talented" we are on paper - until we see them on the floor - I am not gonna expect NCAA wins, Sunbelt Championships, or even Division championships.

Hell, we don't even know if we can beat UTA.

I assume NT plays UTA early in the year, and I think NT will struggle a little out of the gate. Actually, we have seen quite a bit of the newcomers, just not at the next level. Trilli's first class was very good too, even though Davis was injured his first year; they got pushed all over the place. However, JJ is on the other end of the coaching scale from Trilli, and NT does not play anything close to as tough a schedule as did Trilli's first couple of years.

A loaded question, if NT signed the consensus best class in America last year, would you still have to see them on a college court before you were a little more optimistic?

CMJ · September 15, 2011

I assume NT plays UTA early in the year, and I think NT will struggle a little out of the gate. Actually, we have seen quite a bit of the newcomers, just not at the next level. Trilli's first class was very good too, even though Davis was injured his first year; they got pushed all over the place. However, JJ is on the other end of the coaching scale from Trilli, and NT does not play anything close to as tough a schedule as did Trilli's first couple of years.

A loaded question, if NT signed the consensus best class in America last year, would you still have to see them on a college court before you were a little more optimistic?

I might be a little more optimistic, sure. But there are too numerous examples of highly rated classes falling on their face for me to have sky high expectations before I see them in green.

Wasn't that Trilli class the 19th rated in the country? Look how they did.

Edited September 15, 2011 by CMJ

Censored by Laurie · September 15, 2011

A loaded question, if NT signed the consensus best class in America last year, would you still have to see them on a college court before you were a little more optimistic?

This seems to me to be the crux of this entire argument...I think everyone who follows this program is optimistic...or to use the antonym which may be more fitting here, I don't think anyone is pessimistic heading into this season.

However, to flat out guarantee success months before the team even begins practice just because of some Rivals and ESPN talent evaluations is illogical and shows a vast lack of understanding about basketball, or the dynamic of sports in general....optimism or pessimism doesn't figure in. I didn't "call Mikey to the carpet" because I think UNT basketball sucks...rather I think his logic is flawed.

NT03 · September 15, 2011

We are going to the sweet 16. Mark it.

greenminer · September 15, 2011

All ya'll'r quitterz.

F4 or fail.

good_ken · September 15, 2011

We are going to the sweet 16. Mark it.

If the Mayans are right; you can't even guarantee that we'll see basketball after 12/31/11.

UNTMike81 · September 15, 2011

Ok...let's look at it this way. We had an injury riddled team with a lot a talented seniors that went .500 in conference play (underperformed/injuries) and still won 3 out of 4 to almost win the belt and danced. Given our performance in the last 2 minutes of that game I probably shouldn't guarantee anything ever. Looking at it from a different perceptive ULAR had to have the Sunbelt ref's give them the game. If the championship game was called fairly no way ULAR wins. Even though we did everything in the final 2 minutes to give it away. I didn't mind not going to the NCAA's last year because once in the tournament we'd have been toast based on injuries.

I just see this year being different. WKU has the sunbelt reputation, but they haven't been very good as of late, or played to most peoples expectation. I see UNT being able to play and win with anyone in the league and winning the SBC tournament. For those how say the belt is a 1 bid league to the NCAA's that true 98% of the time. The Sunbelt has sent 2 team to the tourney before. If our teams plays like I believe they will we could get knocked off in the SBC championship game this year and possibly still get an invite to the dance. All be it not a good chance. Now I've gone out on a limb twice for my team! I know we have something special here at UNT and I don't think we have to wait another year to see our team produce to, or above expectations. Based on how far our team has come under JJ I believe it's reasonable for me believe my team should go dancing this year. Time will tell and I can't wait for the season to start. I'm stocking up on some Green Kool-Aid now.

Go Mean Green.

Edited September 15, 2011 by UNTMike81

Green P1 · September 15, 2011

This ain't NBA Live. Player ratings don't don't guarantee on court in game ability. All highly rated freshmen do not immediately adjust to the level if play, some never pan out. The celing for this team should be high, but this discussion is ridiculous.

Look at how the Dream Team no longer absolutely dominates international play. That team is made up of players proven to be the very best against the highest level of competition on the planet and they still have to work their asses off against teams with vastly inferior talent. Did the Mavericks not prove this year that the game is all about chemistry rather than a collection of talent?

untbowler · September 15, 2011

I just want UNT to beat SHSU do I do not have hear about that loss again from my wife.

greenminer · September 15, 2011

Look at how the Dream Team no longer absolutely dominates international play. That team is made up of players proven to be the very best against the highest level of competition on the planet and they still have to work their asses off against teams with vastly inferior talent. Did the Mavericks not prove this year that the game is all about chemistry rather than a collection of talent?

ding.

MeanGreenTexan · September 15, 2011

Not to pile onto my already air-tight case , but we also lost last season's best defender to graduation in under-heralded G Shannon Shorter. We are DEFINITELY going to need to find his replacement before conference starts. I'm assuming if Alzee comes back healthy, it's him. If not, then we're all in for a surprise (be it a new player steps up, or we don't have that defensive stopper on the roster & get lit up by opposing scorers).

GrandGreen · September 15, 2011

A lot of debate on expectations which actually are only opinions, wise or not. It seems many of you think the ones who have high expectations are just bb ignorant or pollyannic homers of the first degree. There are plenty of examples to support either view, that Fab Five bunch was an aberration I guess. Yes, I do think JJ's recruiting class for a non-power conference team is comparable.

I would never guarantee anything, my view is that JJ has the talent to have a great team and if he doesn't he is missing an unique opportunity. I doubt if anyone would argue that Jones is the best coach at NT in modern times. I don't put much stock in 20 win seasons in the Belt and an easy oc schedule as a major accomplishment, although stringing 5 straight is. Were Jones rises above other good NT coaches such as Blakeley and Spika is that he has been able to have good seasons with more than one basic team. Blakeley did little after Robbins/Tubbs' recruits graduated and Spika's success were in the two years he had Joe Hamilton and Crest Whitaker. Another strength of JJ is that he always has his team playing the best ball, in Belt tournament time.

Funny, but JJ's strengths support the contention that NT will do well in the tournament. The facts are that NT has either won the tournament or lost to the champion the last five years. NT lose twice to a great by Belt standards WKU team and a fluke loss to UALR last year.

Again this is BB, it does not take a lot of time or a bunch of players to upgrade the program. My expectations are not necessarily optimism. I am not confident that the team will excel, but my view is they have the talent to do just that and I will be disappointed if they do not. Sure many things could go wrong, and who knows what players are the real deal. If Mitchell plays and it appears he will, even rusty and starting late: I think he could dominate the conference. But my expectations are not just based on him, the rest of the freshmen all have the potential to be stars. No not all of them will be and not all of them will be heavy contributors their freshmen year, but I think the odds are that one or two will be solid year one players ala Thompson and White. Patton is a proven player and the other transfers all have promise. Franklin was average at best at OSU but could be a different player here. Walton was a recruiting priority and the Frenchman was good enough to play on his national team. Add to that the return of the starter Hogans and 2009 best defensive guard A. Williams plus Holmen who was showing great promise before his injury and Edwards an enigma but could be a factor if he is healthy. My contention is that the coaching staff should be able to put together a very strong team although the exact players and roles will have to be established. They will miss on some recruits but this class is so deep that I believe there are gong to be multiple special players that surface this year.

Edited September 16, 2011 by GrandGreen

UNTMike81 · September 16, 2011

GrandGreen...you're posts are written much better than mine as are most of the long time posters on the board. I appreciate your wisdom, since I guaranteed a seed at the "Dance" I know you didn't, but many on this board are woefully understating the team JJ has put together this year. Probably to many years of our FB team getting kicked around from end zone to end zone. I'll say this once again, Mr. Mitchell hadn't played organized BB in a year or so and was a major contributor on the USA U19 team. The USA U19 Team wasn't full of a bunch of scrubs from the Sunbelt conference. Every other player was from a recognized BB powerhouse and conference from around the US. Mr. Mitchell didn't ride the bench like one might expect from a Sunbelt player (with no playing time no less), he was an enforcer in the paint!! beyond that UT, Baylor and many other powerhouse teams around the US didn't even have players invited to represent the US. The coach of the US team I believe the coach at George Mason U. had extraordinarily complementary things to say about Mr. Mitchell knowing he hadn't played any organized BB in over a year. By the way our US U19 team only played together for short period of time competing against international competition with teams that had been together for years, and did very well. Now I'm supposed to all of a sudden believe that JJ can't get very talent yet young players to play together. If JJ can't then maybe I'll re-think my support of RV continuing to reward JJ and staff with raises and contract extensions. Until proven differently I have faith that JJ can get this done and put a very good, if not great winning on the floor this year.

My comments about Tony M. aren't meant to take anything away from UNT's other talented recruits, or current players, but Dec. 17th, 2011 can't get here quick enough. By the time Mr. Mitchell comes on board in my opinion the rest of our team will be hitting on all cylinders!!!

Go Mean Green.

Edited September 16, 2011 by UNTMike81

TheTastyGreek · September 16, 2011

If anyone really wants to shock us with a prediction... I'd be amazed if anyone can accurately predict 5-for-5 our starting lineup for game one.

I don't know that I'd give my best guess more than a 15% chance of being right.

NT03 · September 16, 2011

If anyone really wants to shock us with a prediction... I'd be amazed if anyone can accurately predict 5-for-5 our starting lineup for game one.

I don't know that I'd give my best guess more than a 15% chance of being right.

I'll bite :

Norris , Jones , Patton , Holmen & Hogans

I bet the starting lineup changes at least 8 times over the course of the season

UNTMike81 · September 16, 2011

Perfect. If JJ can get that many combinations working well by tournament we should be very deep and everyone will be working well together. Can't wait for season to start.

Edited September 16, 2011 by UNTMike81

Maduro · September 16, 2011

I'll bite :

Norris , Jones , Patton , Holmen & Hogans

I bet the starting lineup changes at least 8 times over the course of the season

i bet that is about right but I'm hoping Williams shows enough in practice to warrant a spot in that 5.

MeanGreenTexan · September 16, 2011

i bet that is about right but I'm hoping Williams shows enough in practice to warrant a spot in that 5.

I hope so too... and like Tasty said, anyone's best guess is only that.

I guess the game 1 starting lineup really comes down to what JJ wants as far as philosophy:

If he wants to start the game on fire with scorers on the floor, we may see something like:

1. Norris

2. Jones

3. J. Williams

4. Franklin

5. Hogans

If he wants to set a defensive tone early on, maybe something like:

1. Jones

2. A. Williams

3. Franklin

4. Patton

5. Hogans

All in all, I think the only person on the roster today who has a starting spot locked-down (unless injuries derail him prior to the season) would be Hogans.

GrandGreen · September 16, 2011

Good change of topic. My wild guess is that the starting lineup will be stocked with the more experienced players but will be changed quickly. Jones at pg, Franklin and A. Williams at the wings and Hogans and Holmen in the frontcourt. Then it will settle at Jones, Franklin, J. Williams, Patton and Hogans. Even wilder guess at tournament time: Jones, J. Williams, T. Mitchhell, Patton and Robinson.