We've got what we've got

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Hate to say this, but after having seen it in person against Houston, and watching Tulsa last weekend: We've got what we've got.

The debate about whether or not Dodge could recruit is over. We've got pretty average players all around. Average size, speed, and talent.

I hate giving coaches excuses. But, it's hard to sit and watch Houston's 290/300+ pound linemen grind on a 260 pound DT like Boutwell all night. Eventually, the kid is going to get his ass worn out giving up that much weight all night long.

I don't want to take anything away from these guys' effort. They fought like hell Saturday night. That part of the game isn't missing. What's missing is size, speed, and overall talent.

While I wish Dodge well at Pitt as a position coach, he truly failed us in recruiting pretty much all the way around, with only a handful of exceptions. He left the program in no better position player-wise than when he arrived - and, may have left it in worse condition.

Whatever the wait, the new seats are great. The kids had fun.

[Green Nightmare]

Hate to say this, but after having seen it in person against Houston, and watching Tulsa last weekend: We've got what we've got.

The debate about whether or not Dodge could recruit is over. We've got pretty average players all around. Average size, speed, and talent.

I hate giving coaches excuses. But, it's hard to sit and watch Houston's 290/300+ pound linemen grind on a 260 pound DT like Boutwell all night. Eventually, the kid is going to get his ass worn out giving up that much weight all night long.

I don't want to take anything away from these guys' effort. They fought like hell Saturday night. That part of the game isn't missing. What's missing is size, speed, and overall talent.

While I wish Dodge well at Pitt as a position coach, he truly failed us in recruiting pretty much all the way around, with only a handful of exceptions. He left the program in no better position player-wise than when he arrived - and, may have left it in worse condition.

Whatever the wait, the new seats are great. The kids had fun.

I agree. At least the fight is back and these kids are going to play their @ss off for this school. i respect the hell out of them

[Eagle1855]

Houston's O-line (and to a slightly lesser degree, Keenum's pocket presence/ability to escape pressure) was a difference in the second half, ergo game. If Keenum has time, he'll make plays. He made some great throws. His receiving core is a talented bunch that can get open. This is a good Houston team.

We also didn't capitalize on their slow start. We could have jumped out to a much bigger lead earlier on had it not been for stupid turnovers. It is what it is.

Overall, I was proud of our guys.

[GabeGMG]

The debate about whether or not Dodge could recruit is over. We've got pretty average players all around. Average size, speed, and talent.

While I wish Dodge well at Pitt as a position coach, he truly failed us in recruiting pretty much all the way around, with only a handful of exceptions. He left the program in no better position player-wise than when he arrived - and, may have left it in worse condition.

While I think you're 100% correct on this, can someone explain in short what Dodge failed to do in recruiting? I don't follow the recruiting side of football too closely, but I thought I remembered Dodge picking up a number of 3* players that other big schools were going after. Was it just that he rarely recruited linemen?

I'll hangup and listen.

Edited September 12, 2011 by GabeGMG

[Mean Green 93-98]

I don't know about using Boutwell as an example, since he was recruited as a DE, not a DT. There is no doubt that Dodge did a poor job recruiting in the trenches. But he was also neutered as a recruiter when halfway through the 2009 season, nobody, including Dodge, knew if he would be back in 2010. If RV was going to give the vibes that Dodge was gone, he should have fired him at the end of the 2009 season, if not sooner.

[Green P1]

I'd place as much or more of the blame on his lack of ability to DEVELOP the players he brought in. There's just too many upperclassman on this roster who seem to exhibit little or no growth in their skill/ability since arriving on campus.

That's what's most frustrating to me.

[GreenFlag]

While I think you're 100% correct on this, can someone explain in short what Dodge failed to do in recruiting? I don't follow the recruiting side of football too closely, but I thought I remembered Dodge picking up a number of 3* players that other big schools were going after. Was it just that he rarely recruited linemen?

I'll hangup and listen.

Just not enough difference makers on defense IMHO. Last year we had Craig Roberson who was a nice player (and a DD recruit), the year before that Nwigwe (a DD recruit) but no one else comes to mind as all conference material. I'm sure I'm overlooking a few.

If you have too many weaknesses other player can't play to their potential i.e. a weak defensive line can make a decent secondary look awful.

Dodge did recruit some nice players and we did have an offense that could put up serious yardage, just couldn't put it in the end zone but that discussion has been rehashed to death.

[GrandGreen]

You can pile on Dodge all you want, but he had one good class; his second and I think did a fair job scrambling for recruits the last two years. A bad Belt team that plays in Fouts is going to be a hard sale. Everyone assumes that McCarney will be a better recruiter, he certainly has much more to work with. Most of us think that McCarney recruits are a step up but frankly there is little evidence of that yet. If you look at this year's commits there are few that have offers to perceived better football schools. There are also at this point not an unusual number of true freshmen playing. Lemmon is starting and a few others are getting playing time, but it is too early to really rate the whole class as anything better than ordinary.

The sad facts are that UNT is lagging the other established FB division schools in recruiting just as they have the last 3 years. Not a knock on McCarney or staff it is just going to take time and some wins to substantially upgrade recruiting. We all hope that this staff is much better evaluating recruits because it is going to take a much longer time for NT to actually compete with even the CUSA teams for the same athletes. The obvious hope is that many of McCarney's recruits despite being relatively lightly recruited will turn out to be stars.

[UNT Five&Dime]

I agree. At least the fight is back and these kids are going to play their @ss off for this school. i respect the hell out of them

This is why I don't understand all the JOs that left early. How do you walk out on this team?

[MeanGreenZen]

Dodge actually recruited DT's pretty well. We had the best DT pair in the conference last season. The problem is they both graduated and McCarney failed to replace them. He struck out on the recruitment of Ronnell Wright and then wasted a scholarship on Terrell Brooks. McCarney's record recruiting DT's is 0-1. He is going to have to improve greatly in that area to turn this thing around.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

The problems with Dodge's recruiting:

-he spent more time coaching his high school team for 30 days after we hired him during the winter 2006/2007 timeframe, leaving him a short window. He filled the roster with guys who quit and/or never panned out.

-he never got enough linemen on either side of the ball to build depth. That four and five year after he was hired we were and still are using DE recruits at DT is evidence.

The bottom line is, he believed his press clippings. He signed a bunch of receivers. Receivers don't play on the line. He though he'd just sling it around like Southlake did and get results. It was a dream world scenario that I still can't believe Rick Villareal bought into after the first two terrible seasons.

Also, we've got no true Fullback-Receiver hybrids colleges now call H-backs/U-backs.

It's useless. There are so many holes and so little depth. All you have to do is watch the games.

Some of us were holding out hope that McCarney could be kind of a miracle worker. Not so much. It would take a miracle to turn these guys into winners in one season.

As it is, McCarney's recruits are showing well enough. Pleased with McNulty scoring the first TD. The DB Warner looks good even though he's raw. We'll do well with another class or two like McCarney signed this year.

[H-towngreen]

You have to like how the O-line is going to look next season. We lose JJ but return 4 other starters and add to that the Feldt brothers.

I think we have a good stable of receivers. No studs yet, but Chancellor looks like he could be a star in future.

I'm a little worried about RB. We lose Dunbar and Hamilton next year. We've seen Byrd but we know nothing about what else is back there. We'll need some youngsters to step up.

TE I think we are solid with Power, Prior and Miller.

We need some serious help on the D-line, both DE and DT. We have some young guys who you hope will continue to develop.

Seems as though we're good for years to come at LB.

DB...ugh...help!!!

[MeanGreenZen]

North Texas was talented enough last season to win the Sun Belt. The problem was Dodge couldn't coach them up and we lost every close game. McCarney coaching last year's team would have been a contender. This season was always going to be a rebuilding season.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

North Texas was talented enough last season to win the Sun Belt. The problem was Dodge couldn't coach them up and we lost every close game. McCarney coaching last year's team would have been a contender. This season was always going to be a rebuilding season.

Agree. I actually think Dodge could have won some with last year's squad without all of the injuries. But, he'd still have been in a pickle over the lack of depth this season.

I think he knew it after a couple of seasons because we did we more JUCO signings in his last two classes. Those guys can be bigger dice rolls than preps, though, unless you've got someone who can really spot talent.

You look at the two premier football schools in this region, Texas and Oklahoma. Texas rarely signs JUCOs. Oklahoma will do, and they don't have many JUCO. No way is the way or better than the other - both Texas and Oklahoma have had great success doing what they do. Texas just never needs to do it (although, I'm sure their fans would have taken a chance on a JUCO guy at QB last year).

The difference is, among schools that recruit JUCOs, Oklahoma's coaching staff seems to know to sport JUCO guys who will pan out. Kansas State and Nebraska to a fairly good job of it as well.

If you don't really know the JUCO game and how to size up the talent there, you can leave some pretty big holes in a roster.

Edited September 12, 2011 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[rcade]

The faults of Coach Dodge don't matter to me any more. We all already know he wasn't up to the job.

I just want to see if the team gets better from week to week under Coach McCarney. As long as there's progress this season I'm happy.

[MeanGreenHoops]

Hate to say this, but after having seen it in person against Houston, and watching Tulsa last weekend: We've got what we've got.

The debate about whether or not Dodge could recruit is over. We've got pretty average players all around. Average size, speed, and talent.

I hate giving coaches excuses. But, it's hard to sit and watch Houston's 290/300+ pound linemen grind on a 260 pound DT like Boutwell all night. Eventually, the kid is going to get his ass worn out giving up that much weight all night long.

I don't want to take anything away from these guys' effort. They fought like hell Saturday night. That part of the game isn't missing. What's missing is size, speed, and overall talent.

While I wish Dodge well at Pitt as a position coach, he truly failed us in recruiting pretty much all the way around, with only a handful of exceptions. He left the program in no better position player-wise than when he arrived - and, may have left it in worse condition.

Whatever the wait, the new seats are great. The kids had fun.

The real thing missing from this team are playmakers especially on defense. Someone who will get a sack or an interception on 3rd down. Stop a running back for a two yard loss. Plays we haven't really seen since the Dickey years. We have some playmakers on offense but it seems not as many as years past at least not to this point in the season.

[GrandGreen]

Agree. I actually think Dodge could have won some with last year's squad without all of the injuries. But, he'd still have been in a pickle over the lack of depth this season.

I think he knew it after a couple of seasons because we did we more JUCO signings in his last two classes. Those guys can be bigger dice rolls than preps, though, unless you've got someone who can really spot talent.

You look at the two premier football schools in this region, Texas and Oklahoma. Texas rarely signs JUCOs. Oklahoma will do, and they don't have many JUCO. No way is the way or better than the other - both Texas and Oklahoma have had great success doing what they do. Texas just never needs to do it (although, I'm sure their fans would have taken a chance on a JUCO guy at QB last year).

The difference is, among schools that recruit JUCOs, Oklahoma's coaching staff seems to know to sport JUCO guys who will pan out. Kansas State and Nebraska to a fairly good job of it as well.

If you don't really know the JUCO game and how to size up the talent there, you can leave some pretty big holes in a roster.

Surely, you are not comparing UT and OU's recruiting with NT. When you always get the "pick of the litter" it is easy to recruit and unless a juco is a true standout blue chip, those type programs don't mess with them. Good gosh, when you are picking from the handful of jucos at the top, it is fairly easy to get contributors.

Dodge was a big mistake, but he was allowed to play out the season at SLC and hire a bunch of inexperienced coaches so some of that blame goes to the employer. Sure, Lemmon, Warner and a few others are players but you ignore that Dodge who had few HS recruits in his last class brought in Chancellor, Byrd, Y'Barbo, Orr, and Johnson. Dodge had nothing to sell but still managed to get some good recruits.

I still don't think the talent on this team is inferior to last year when NT make a good run under Canales. People seem to not realize this is senior laden team, next year is not necessarily going to be better. Unfortunately, NT first three or maybe four games are very tough. Rebuilding an offensive and interior defensive lines will take a while, but I though despite the second half meltdown, the team did substantially improve over the debut.

Edited September 12, 2011 by GrandGreen

[FirefightnRick]

All you needed to know about Dodge to really understand how incredibly over his head he was is understand how he had his team prepare for the 2007 season. Our team went two whole weeks of two a days without allowing our defense to hit skill position players in game situations. Instead of being coached up in how to tackle in space our players instead were forced to "Touch Up" a receiver or back, then allow him to run on by.

Even though this came straight from within the coaching staff I still couldn't believe what I was hearing when I heard it.

Rick

[UNT90]

The problems with Dodge's recruiting:

-he spent more time coaching his high school team for 30 days after we hired him during the winter 2006/2007 timeframe, leaving him a short window. He filled the roster with guys who quit and/or never panned out.

-he never got enough linemen on either side of the ball to build depth. That four and five year after he was hired we were and still are using DE recruits at DT is evidence.

The bottom line is, he believed his press clippings. He signed a bunch of receivers. Receivers don't play on the line. He though he'd just sling it around like Southlake did and get results. It was a dream world scenario that I still can't believe Rick Villareal bought into after the first two terrible seasons.

Also, we've got no true Fullback-Receiver hybrids colleges now call H-backs/U-backs.

It's useless. There are so many holes and so little depth. All you have to do is watch the games.

Some of us were holding out hope that McCarney could be kind of a miracle worker. Not so much. It would take a miracle to turn these guys into winners in one season.

As it is, McCarney's recruits are showing well enough. Pleased with McNulty scoring the first TD. The DB Warner looks good even though he's raw. We'll do well with another class or two like McCarney signed this year.

Easy. Don't give up hope yet. Indiana is winnable, as is a slew of conference games. Just hope for improvement every week. If that happens, this thing could still end up at 5-7