Looking at McCarney's turnaround at ISU...

[CaribbeanGreen]

Okay - honest question here, because my knowledge of ISU football is limited at best....

... We all know ISU had a history of being terrible. I mean, staggeringly so. What led to McCarney's turnaround? What was the timeline like? I know our situation is different - it's both harder to recruit TO and easier to win IN the Belt. Still, it's interesting to look at past results when thinking about future performance - especially when some similarities are there.

McCarney took over a Cyclone squad that had been winless in 1994. The previous two seasons (92-93), ISU had only won 4 and 3. He inherited a team thought to have the poorest talent in the then Big 8, save for eventual Heisman finalist and stud RB Troy Davis, who was the unquestioned bright spot in the midst of a dismal era. Sound familiar?

McCarney's first five seasons featured the following records.. Davis put up big numbers, but it didn't translate into wins.

3-8

2-9

1-10

3-8

4-7

The turnaround came in earnest in the 2000 season, when the Cyclones won 9 games, including the Insight.com bowl. While it's doubtful he'd be extended such a long leash in today's climate, he was, and it paid off. So, my question is this...

... in 2000, Sage Rosenfels, who has carved out a nice, long NFL career, led ISU to that turnaround. He was replaced by Seneca Wallace, who helped engineer two 7 win seasons and two bowl games (both losses - the 7 wins were all regular season wins on a Big XII slate). After Wallace went pro, the win total plummeted to 2. Mac did manage two more 7 win seasons, and was then fired after sliding back to 4.

So, the question - is it as simple as Rosenfels and Wallace? Of course there are other factors, but was McCarney's career at ISU defined primarily by getting excellent QB play by two future NFL QB's? Maybe Yellow Snow or someone else is around to help me answer this, because I's be curious how other areas of the team progressed and if it felt that simple in Ames.

Edited September 3, 2011 by CaribbeanGreen

[Mean Green Matt]

I'm not sure I'll make it through another five years of this. With the coaching staff we have and the conference we play in, I'll be disappointed with anything less than 4 wins....which would be more than we have won since 2004, so I think that would be alright.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Mean Green Matt

[CaribbeanGreen]

I'm not saying I expect it to take 5 years here, mind you. I'm just curious as to what exactly his reclamation process looked like at ISU,

[Mean Green Matt]

I'm not saying I expect it to take 5 years here, mind you. I'm just curious as to what exactly his reclamation process looked like at ISU,

I know...I guess my comment was pretty much the farthest thing from an answer to your question...I was just sayin' after seeing the ISU records from his first five years.

[Got5onIt]

We would definitely need opinions from an ISU expert, but it's a known fact excellent QB play can keep you in many games. Football is the ultimate team sport, unlike basketball, where one player can carry an entire team. Unless you have Mike Vick, you need good players at many positions to be competetive at the college level. I remember those Seneca Wallace teams having good defenses and a solid running game (Ennis Haywood). I would bet all around team talent and coaching improvements we're a big part of it as well. Bottom line, Mac had to recruit Seneca & Sage to ISU, that's a big thumbs up for him, IMO.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Got5onIt

[greenminer]

I think we the transfers we have coming in, 2012 looks promising.

I really hope we don't have to wait longer than that!

[CaribbeanGreen]

(NOTE: the following is unrelated ... but fun.)

Let's look at two coaches in their first HC gigs over 9 seasons...

Coach 1:

3-8

2-9

1-10

3-8

4-7

9-3

7-5

7-7

2-10

Overall: 38 - 67

Coach 2:

3-8

2-9

3-8

5-7

8-5

9-4

7-5

2-9

3-9

Overall: 42 - 64

Coach A? Dan McCarney's first 9 years at Iowa State.

Coach B? Darrell Dickey's 9 year run at North Texas.

I KNOW THERE A MILLION VARIABLES. It's just a list of records.

Note: Coming from me this isn't a slam at McCarney at all. I'm an admitted Dickey apologist. I like the hire, think he'll do good things here. I just thought this was an interesting comparison as to different eras, different standards, and different expectations.

[GrayEagle]

1. Coach Mac inherited perhaps a worse team, talent-wise, at ISU than he did here.

2. The competition, especially teams like Oklahoma and Nebraska, was far superior to anything in the SBC.

3. McCarney had never been a head coach before.

4. His staff had not worked with him before.

Dan McCarney has learned what it takes to win. His staff knows what it takes to win. There is no comparison with a first-year coach and the seasoned veteran that he is now.

He is still behind many of the teams on his schedule in talent but he will catch up in time. He'll win some games based on his (and his staff's) experience. He'll still lose some games because he just doesn't have the horses but he'll also win some with lesser talent because of motivation and desire.

We were out of the FIU game before we could adjust. The second and third quarters we were at least able to stop the bleeding. I think that he has some pretty decent talent now but they lack experience. Freshmen and sophomores are 40% of his two-deep. They need a little time.

There really isn't any way to compare his coaching at ISU with what he'll do here; especially from a time factor.

[CaribbeanGreen]

Sure, of course it's not a direct and perfect comparison. I DO, however, feel like it further emphasizes the importance of the QB position. Both Dickey and McCarney won and lost with top flight RBs.... but both really started winning when they got that leadership and production at the QB position.

I wonder when the "culture change" at ISU really began.... with the winning Rosenfels season, or was there a slow shift going on during the first five losing seasons?

[Got5onIt]

Sure, of course it's not a direct and perfect comparison. I DO, however, feel like it further emphasizes the importance of the QB position. Both Dickey and McCarney won and lost with top flight RBs.... but both really started winning when they got that leadership and production at the QB position.

I wonder when the "culture change" at ISU really began.... with the winning Rosenfels season, or was there a slow shift going on during the first five losing seasons?

Don't froget Dickey had one of teh best defenses ever assembled at NT. Hellacious defensive unit & an All-Conference NFL caliber running back are always a QB's best friends. Hall was solid but he's not even close to the caliber Qb Rosenfels & Wallace were. Smith was good but we never got to see his full potential...

I just dont remember NT qb's of the DD era being that productive like you say...

Edited September 3, 2011 by Got5onIt

[CaribbeanGreen]

Don't froget Dickey had one of teh best defenses ever assembled at NT. Hellacious defensive unit & an All-Conference NFL caliber running back are always a QB's best friends. Hall was solid but he's not even close to the caliber Qb Rosenfels & Wallace were. Smith was good but we never got to see his full potential...

I just dont remember NT qb's of the DD era being that productive like you say...

That's absolutely true. Dickey's defenses were monstrous.

But as far as "production" at the QB position, I don't just mean in terms of big numbers. Hall and Smith were leaders, didn't make big mistakes, and were efficient. They had skill sets perfectly suited for that offense. From Wilburn to Galbreath to Cobbs to Thomas (and others in between), Dickey had some great backs.... but it's a long road from Attaway & Bridges to Hall & Smith. Production is measured a lot of ways.

In Mac's case, Rosenfels and Wallace were pretty darn productive... and so was Ennis Haywood at RB. Troy Davis was more productive than any of them (as Dunbar might be), but without a viable QB, his offenses didn't generate wins.

I don't know enough about McCarney's ISU defenses to make an intelligent comment.