Give it time people!

oldguystudent · September 2, 2011

and some people don't like THOR....even more simple....

But EVERYBODY loves pie! It's that simple!

UNTJarhead0802 · September 2, 2011

I just think that everybody was going into this season with inflated expectations. We have a good head coach who has a track record. He knew what he was getting into. We have to face the fact that we are going to be moving from a gimmicky high school style of coaching which I don't care what anybody says set us back a long, long time, to from what I've been understanding to be a strict, stern disciplinarian style of football. Even the sports writers were saying that in order to win this year more than 3 or 4 games, it would take smoke and mirrors.

Side Show Joe · September 2, 2011

This is a no freak-out zone...this team will progress as the year goes along and this program will progress each year. FIU is very good and simply has better overall talent and had better execution. They won the Sun Belt last year and are the favorites to win it this year. Give it time...things will get better...we have the right coaches, the right facilities and this team is slowly, but surely getting the players and experience this team needs to win, but there is not a quick fix. In the mean time, I am excited to make the trip to Denton for our first home game in our new stadium!

People are not mad that we lost. We were not expected to win. People are mad about how we lost.

There is no moral victory in giving up 14 points on 5 plays. It took the entire 1st quarter for Murray State to give up 14 points to Louisville. I don't think the angry fans are being too unreasonable.

rcade · September 2, 2011

Conference realignment is the least of our issues. We just need to get some semblance of respect back. To think that this season making or breaking us in the bid to move to the Mountain West or the WAC or C-USA is a bit beyond logic.

We turned down the WAC already, so there's no make-or-break there. We wisely chose break on that one.

But I agree with you that realignment is a minor issue for us. We're not going to get invites anywhere until we're winning the Belt again. That needs to be our focus. FIU shows where we have to be as a program to make that happen.

untjim1995 · September 2, 2011

So sad that we consider 6 wins as a member of the Sun Belt conference "visions of grandeur."

Hey there UNT90!! How you doing today? I know we had our back-and-forth during the off-season about expectations for this season, but I do feel bad for you because I know that you want nothing but the best for our alma mater--you just want it sooner than it can reasonably be expected to occur.

Emmitt's point about being soft for the last 4+ years is just so true. These guys are used to nothing but losing and they are not used to physical play. I know that you gave me grief for being Coach Mac, since I bought into his "coachspeak", but this is the purest example of what he was talking about. Our lines are amazingly weak, our QB is not experienced, and our WRs can't catch. They will improve as the year progresses, which is why 3-4 wins is a reasonable expectation. Watching last night, 3-9 might be amazing, but I am still sticking to the 3-4 win prediction.

The SBC ain't the SEC--but the top teams in the SBC tend to stay there for years and the bottom feeders tend to stay there for years. FIU is a top SBC team and we have been at the bottom for 6 years. The first step for improvement is to get out of the bottom three in this league, which 3-4 wins will do. Next year is when we need to be getting to 5-6 wins and working up toward the top three of the league. Cristobal at FIU took three years to get them to the top of the league and to win a bowl game. They were literally the worst FBS program in the country when he took them over. This is what we should expect out of McCarney.

Quoner · September 2, 2011

You know what this reminds me of (in-state example version?): When Sherman showed up in College Station. He had the remnants of a coach who didn't recruit size, emphasize strength training or much of the basics. He tried to simplify the schemes on both sides and saw his line get matched by bad teams and dominated by crappy teams. They won 4 games and many fans decided he was a bust and figured it was always going to be more of the same. Flash forward a few years later, and he has a preseason top 10 team and a program on the rise with recruiting back to the expected level for a program of that size.

I'm not saying he is even that great, but he was losing to Big 12 teams with less talent at skill positions because of the line imbalance. If it turns out we have that this year, real strides can be made on both sides of the ball without always having a win to show for it. It won't be fun and it's not what I want, but it's hard to neglect the trenches for 5-6 years and fix it right away -- especially against opponents at all levels with the coaching to spread out and attack your weaknesses.

Also, if this happens again next year, I fully support flipping the eff out.

LongJim · September 2, 2011

I'm not saying he is even that great, but he was losing to Big 12 teams with less talent at skill positions because of the line imbalance. If it turns out we have that this year, real strides can be made on both sides of the ball without always having a win to show for it. It won't be fun and it's not what I want, but it's hard to neglect the trenches for 5-6 years and fix it right away -- especially against opponents at all levels with the coaching to spread out and attack your weaknesses.

Also, if this happens again next year, I fully support flipping the eff out.

Good post, and good examples. The good news is this program is finally--in all areas--on the right track. The arrival of the Feldt brothers is case in point. Very excited for this development, though it will pay off in a year or so. At any level in football, the hardest thing to find is upper-echelon linemen. It's absolutely the hardest thing to do. It is so fundamental to good teams that it is almost always overlooked and ignored by the casual fan because they don't understand how it affects the rest of the team.

Take a look at the box score from last night's game. Look and see how many tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks were the product of the DL for FIU. Then take a look at UNT's totals. I'll give everyone a head start: The DT's for FIU had 6 tackles. The DT's for UNT had 0. I quit counting the FIU TFL's, but I believe it was 8 or 9. UNT had 1 or 2.

The reaction of the casual fan to what is obviously overmatched line play is typically "unacceptable", "not put in position to succeed", "unprepared", "outcoached", "poor game plan", "no adjustments", "head coach undermined the OC/DC", and other straw-grasping. It is absolutely imperative to build the areas above for any program--and continually build it every year--because the success of the skill players and special teams is BUILT upon those players and how they perform.

I will agree with your last sentence as well, up to a point. I don't believe this will be fixed in one more recruiting class, though I expect improvement next year. What will be fun(?) this year is seeing how Bowen/McCarney get the DL/OL improved as the season goes on.

This thing is in its embryonic stages. The recruiting and coaching field has finally been leveled for the MG again. It will be maddening to watch at times this year, but this program is finally on the upswing.

ntsumck · September 2, 2011

I watched the game last night with 3 former D1-coaches. (no not any of Dodge's staff) Each one of them stated that NT was much better coached this season. They were more physical, played fundamentally sound and showed more looks on defense.

This year will be tough. Especially the first 5, give it some time. I believe after watching the 2nd half and listening to those 3 that we are in very good hands for the future.

We will be much stronger, bigger and quicker this time next year.

Have faith and support the program.

LongJim · September 2, 2011

I watched the game last night with 3 former D1-coaches. (no not any of Dodge's staff) Each one of them stated that NT was much better coached this season. They were more physical, played fundamentally sound and showed more looks on defense.

There's no question. And I'll go further--the special teams, except for the breakaway on the kickoff--looked very good. There were few penalties, and no dumb mistakes. Thompson, though his play was affected by inexperience and having to deal with the speed and pressure of FIU, was pretty good, all things considered. So was Osborne's. I thought tackling was MUCH improved and that UNT was MUCH more physical than last year. They are simply outmanned right now.

Quoner · September 2, 2011

I will agree with your last sentence as well, up to a point. I don't believe this will be fixed in one more recruiting class, though I expect improvement next year. What will be fun(?) this year is seeing how Bowen/McCarney get the DL/OL improved as the season goes on.

This thing is in its embryonic stages. The recruiting and coaching field has finally been leveled for the MG again. It will be maddening to watch at times this year, but this program is finally on the upswing.

I'm not saying we have to win next year, but the gap should never again be 4 scores. I'm really excited to watch the line and do think that those that savor the little improvements and understand that phase of the game will have a lot to chew on and think about.

This may sound backwards, but I went in prepared to treat it like a baseball season, where the ongoing storylines and growth are more important to me than what happens in a single game.

island eagle · September 2, 2011

There is absolutely no question that it will take time to turn this ship around. Anyone who thought otherwise has been drinking too much green kool-aid. I surprised that anyone thought that the game would be any different than it was. What I want to see is improvement through the year and an ability to find out who can and wants to play top-level football on the squad.

LongJim · September 2, 2011

I'm not saying we have to win next year, but the gap should never again be 4 scores.

That's reasonable, IMO. In fact, I think they start to claw back to the top next year if next February is good to UNT.

This may sound backwards, but I went in prepared to treat it like a baseball season, where the ongoing storylines and growth are more important to me than what happens in a single game.

I'm treating it that way, as well. If pleasant surprises happen along the way--so much the better!

SHOSS · September 2, 2011

You know what this reminds me of (in-state example version?): When Sherman showed up in College Station. He had the remnants of a coach who didn't recruit size, emphasize strength training or much of the basics. He tried to simplify the schemes on both sides and saw his line get matched by bad teams and dominated by crappy teams. They won 4 games and many fans decided he was a bust and figured it was always going to be more of the same. Flash forward a few years later, and he has a preseason top 10 team and a program on the rise with recruiting back to the expected level for a program of that size.

I'm not saying he is even that great, but he was losing to Big 12 teams with less talent at skill positions because of the line imbalance. If it turns out we have that this year, real strides can be made on both sides of the ball without always having a win to show for it. It won't be fun and it's not what I want, but it's hard to neglect the trenches for 5-6 years and fix it right away -- especially against opponents at all levels with the coaching to spread out and attack your weaknesses.

Also, if this happens again next year, I fully support flipping the eff out.

case study number 2, and maybe a more relevant comparison... look at smooo(if you dare*gasp*)

June Jones went 1 and 11 in his first year. They had re-opened their stadium for a couple of years, right? or was it 1? I can't remember... Anyways, even their savior had a year to begin to rebuild the overall culture and 2 recruiting classes... Look where they are now. I think we would all agree that we would love to be in their position...aside from wearing pink polos... I'll take their trust funds too btw...

pastorgrant · September 2, 2011

One thing I saw this last game gives me a ton of hope—they made adjustments and it worked. The first quarter, we looked like we didn't belong on the same field as FIU. But that changed and before it was all said and done, we were moving the ball, putting the team in scoring opportunities, and making some big stops on D. If we hadn't gotten off to such a slow start, that game would have been competitive. And with so much youth on the team and a new coach, that kind of a first quarter of the first game shouldn't be that surprising. I know that I have a reputation for being a perennial optimist, which I am when it comes to this team/coaching staff, but I just think it's ridiculous how many people are wanting to throw this whole season away already. I'm wearing a UNT T-Shirt and flip flops today and am still sipping on my green kool-aid. It's tasty.

Do I think we'll be in a bowl game this year? No. But we will win some games and it will be a hell of a lot more fun than in the last few years, especially with Apogee Stadium. I picked us to go 5-7 and I'm sticking with that. If we lose to FAU and are at that time 0-6, then I'll pack up my optimism for this season and set it on the shelf until next off season. We are probably looking at an 0-5 start, maybe 1-4 if everything goes right, 2-3 would be a miracle, but there's a lot of games we have a good shot of winning after that.

Don't give up, my green buddies. GMG!

football fan · September 2, 2011

Yes patience people! We now have two legitimate, real, experienced coaches (i am incl Canales + a quality staff) in charge now. I liked the last one personally but he proved that you just cant take a HS coach and expect success in a short span of time. Too much learning curve at the D1 level. The TD experiment kinda like the BHO (our current pres) experiment, you cant take the mail room boy and promote him to CEO and expect quick success. Just doesn't happen that way. The ladder of success has to be climbed one rung at a time from the bottom.

I would also venture to say that we will see risks taken this year in hopes of getting wins vs conservative play. When you don't match up well with the opponent, you have to take risk to have a chance at winning those type of games (preaching to the choir as you all know this).

Sorry if I have offended anyone but the truth is the truth. The truth and political correctness rarely align.

cdizzle86 · September 2, 2011

One game in and we're all talking each other off the ledge.

UNT90 · September 2, 2011

Hey there UNT90!! How you doing today? I know we had our back-and-forth during the off-season about expectations for this season, but I do feel bad for you because I know that you want nothing but the best for our alma mater--you just want it sooner than it can reasonably be expected to occur.

Emmitt's point about being soft for the last 4+ years is just so true. These guys are used to nothing but losing and they are not used to physical play. I know that you gave me grief for being Coach Mac, since I bought into his "coachspeak", but this is the purest example of what he was talking about. Our lines are amazingly weak, our QB is not experienced, and our WRs can't catch. They will improve as the year progresses, which is why 3-4 wins is a reasonable expectation. Watching last night, 3-9 might be amazing, but I am still sticking to the 3-4 win prediction.

The SBC ain't the SEC--but the top teams in the SBC tend to stay there for years and the bottom feeders tend to stay there for years. FIU is a top SBC team and we have been at the bottom for 6 years. The first step for improvement is to get out of the bottom three in this league, which 3-4 wins will do. Next year is when we need to be getting to 5-6 wins and working up toward the top three of the league. Cristobal at FIU took three years to get them to the top of the league and to win a bowl game. They were literally the worst FBS program in the country when he took them over. This is what we should expect out of McCarney.

What I don't expect out of Coach Mac is giving his team Zero shot to win. Zero, nada, zup, zilch.

Kicking to T.Y at every opportunity, not throwing on 1st down the entire 1st half, 4 straight running plays, including on 4th down to start the game.

This rivals the coaching debacles of the Dodge era. Coach Mac said no excuses after the game. Well, I'll hold him to it. Give your team a chance to compete, coach.

Edited September 2, 2011 by UNT90

Harry · September 2, 2011

Good post, and good examples. The good news is this program is finally--in all areas--on the right track. The arrival of the Feldt brothers is case in point. Very excited for this development, though it will pay off in a year or so. At any level in football, the hardest thing to find is upper-echelon linemen. It's absolutely the hardest thing to do. It is so fundamental to good teams that it is almost always overlooked and ignored by the casual fan because they don't understand how it affects the rest of the team.

Take a look at the box score from last night's game. Look and see how many tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks were the product of the DL for FIU. Then take a look at UNT's totals. I'll give everyone a head start: The DT's for FIU had 6 tackles. The DT's for UNT had 0. I quit counting the FIU TFL's, but I believe it was 8 or 9. UNT had 1 or 2.

The reaction of the casual fan to what is obviously overmatched line play is typically "unacceptable", "not put in position to succeed", "unprepared", "outcoached", "poor game plan", "no adjustments", "head coach undermined the OC/DC", and other straw-grasping. It is absolutely imperative to build the areas above for any program--and continually build it every year--because the success of the skill players and special teams is BUILT upon those players and how they perform.

I will agree with your last sentence as well, up to a point. I don't believe this will be fixed in one more recruiting class, though I expect improvement next year. What will be fun(?) this year is seeing how Bowen/McCarney get the DL/OL improved as the season goes on.

This thing is in its embryonic stages. The recruiting and coaching field has finally been leveled for the MG again. It will be maddening to watch at times this year, but this program is finally on the upswing.

This is an excellent analysis! Good work Jim!

Mean Green Matt · September 2, 2011

case study number 2, and maybe a more relevant comparison... look at smooo(if you dare*gasp*)

June Jones went 1 and 11 in his first year. They had re-opened their stadium for a couple of years, right? or was it 1? I can't remember... Anyways, even their savior had a year to begin to rebuild the overall culture and 2 recruiting classes... Look where they are now. I think we would all agree that we would love to be in their position...aside from wearing pink polos... I'll take their trust funds too btw...

I completely forgot about that.

NM Green · September 3, 2011

I know I will feel better if FIU turns out to be our first SBC top 25 team which I believe they have a chance to do. That FIU team looked focused and a lot like Nevada last year. That Nevada team with Kapernik went 11-1 with one blemish to Hawaii and beat Boise State. I think FIU could be that good after watching their near upset of TAMU in College Station, their big bowl win and frankly a driven and motivated team last night. I can't imagine Cristobal being there after this year and I won't mind. I am sick of losing to FIU - 6 in a row now - really!

I liked that we did not make stupid penalties. We didn't celebrate crazy after a 1st down, we stayed within the gameplan and competed in the second half.

I don't think Houston is as good as FIU and we will be at home in front of a raucous crowd. I am confident we will play much much better and be in a game with H-town all the way to the end. We may even surprise the college football nation.

GMG

NTXCoog · September 3, 2011

I don't think Houston is as good as FIU and we will be at home in front of a raucous crowd. I am confident we will play much much better and be in a game with H-town all the way to the end. We may even surprise the college football nation.

The poll voters disagree with who is better, but I guess we'll see next week.

I'm curious about kickoffs next week. If UNT was willing to kick to Hilton who has 4 career KO returns for TDs, will they also kick to Carrier who has 6 career KO return TDs, 1 short of the NCAA record?

eulessismore · September 3, 2011

case study number 2, and maybe a more relevant comparison... look at smooo(if you dare*gasp*)

June Jones went 1 and 11 in his first year. They had re-opened their stadium for a couple of years, right? or was it 1? I can't remember... Anyways, even their savior had a year to begin to rebuild the overall culture and 2 recruiting classes... Look where they are now. I think we would all agree that we would love to be in their position...aside from wearing pink polos... I'll take their trust funds too btw...

What about this 1-11 first year record for something that may be more informative, although I hate the part where we helped end their 21 game losing streak:

My link

TheTastyGreek · September 3, 2011

some people don't like bball...very simple...

Some people don't like the American flag, or 8 pound 6 ounce blonde-haired blue-eyed rosy-cheeked newborn sweet baby Jesus, either.

2 of the 3 are forgivable. One is not.

greenminer · September 3, 2011

Some people don't like the American flag, or 8 pound 6 ounce blonde-haired blue-eyed rosy-cheeked newborn sweet baby Jesus, either.

2 of the 3 are forgivable. One is not.

lol.

Truth is, you don't have to enjoy the bball game. Try stepping into a UNT building where everyone is having a good time, and our team is getting a W.

I'm not a fan of baseball, but I find the games to be a great hang.

Now if only it didn't cost me $20 to have a snack/drink at the Ballpark...

stryker · September 3, 2011

I just think that everybody was going into this season with inflated expectations. We have a good head coach who has a track record. He knew what he was getting into. We have to face the fact that we are going to be moving from a gimmicky high school style of coaching which I don't care what anybody says set us back a long, long time, to from what I've been understanding to be a strict, stern disciplinarian style of football. Even the sports writers were saying that in order to win this year more than 3 or 4 games, it would take smoke and mirrors.

New to the forums here. I've been a long time reader though.

I think the above post is probably the best analysis of where UNT football stands right now. The last four years set the program back a ways and it's going to take a while for McCarney to repair the damage, my guess is a minimum of three years. I predicted UNT would win somewhere between 2 and 4 games this year and anything more than that and McCarney should be the Sun Belt Conference Coach of the Year. UNT has an unproven QB, is woefully inexpierenced on both lines, the list goes on.

What I find frustrating as a UNT fan, is that the Mean Green are unveiling their new stadium and essentially starting the rebuilding process from square one, not a good combination. Eventually, the novelty of the new facility is going to wear off and if you're not winning attendance is usually going to dwindle. When Todd Dodge was given that 4th year, UNT was banking on him getting this team into a contender status by the time the new stadium opened and it didn't happen. Personally I believe that the writing was on the wall after his 3rd year and a change should've been made to give a new coach time to at least lay a foundation the year before the new stadium opened but it didn't happen. Hindsight always 20/20.