Latest Survey Out On Obamacare

KRAM1 · August 25, 2011

Nearly 1 in 10 of every mid sized to large company employer expects to stop offering healthcare to its employees after 2014 according to the latest Towers Watson survey. In a June survey by another big benefits consultant, Mercer, found that 8% are either likely or very likely to end health benefits after the exchanges start. The survey included more than 1,200 companies.

A former insurance executive, Bob Laszewski, now a consultant also reported to be surprised that as many as 8 or 9 percent of companies already expect to drop coverage a couple of years BEFORE the exchanges start.

Obviously, this is just a look at what companies are "thinking" now and not what they might actually do, and at 10% dropping coverage (while that is thousands of folks now covered by their employers who will not be) the vast majority look to remain to be covered according to these surveys.

An ominous note was, and I quote "If one employer does it, others will likely follow". OUCH.

UNTFan23 · August 25, 2011

This won't be pretty if companies drop health care benefits and not raise employee wages/salaries to compensate the lost coverage they were previously providing.

I wonder who will be the one to get the ball rolling on ending employer sponsored health plans because that is the direction the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 appears to be taking us. :no:

Edited August 25, 2011 by UNTFan23

meangreendork · August 25, 2011

Nearly 1 in 10 of every mid sized to large company employer expects to stop offering healthcare to its employees after 2014 according to the latest Towers Watson survey. In a June survey by another big benefits consultant, Mercer, found that 8% are either likely or very likely to end health benefits after the exchanges start. The survey included more than 1,200 companies.

A former insurance executive, Bob Laszewski, now a consultant also reported to be surprised that as many as 8 or 9 percent of companies already expect to drop coverage a couple of years BEFORE the exchanges start.

Obviously, this is just a look at what companies are "thinking" now and not what they might actually do, and at 10% dropping coverage (while that is thousands of folks now covered by their employers who will not be) the vast majority look to remain to be covered according to these surveys.

An ominous note was, and I quote "If one employer does it, others will likely follow". OUCH.

You and I typically disagree on politics and such, but the attempt at federal universal coverage was bad no matter who you are. I like the concept of it, but the US can't afford it. Too many people to cover, and then too many who would be way too expensive to cover due to really, really poor health. Really, universal coverage would be fine if we were a smaller country both in population and in geographic size. State universal coverage? Maybe. Federal? Way too expensive.

Insurance reform starts with the insurance companies re-thinking their practices and pricing while the insured really think out their daily lives. Preventive care and being smarter about daily choices can really make an impact on healthcare expenditures. Plus, I don't mind my healthcare $ going to help you if you break an arm tumbling down the stands at Apogee. That's cool, accidents happen, go Mean Green. I would be kinda mad about it going to help someone who thinks a BigMac and XL soda is okay to eat at every meal.

glick1980 · August 25, 2011

You and I typically disagree on politics and such, but the attempt at federal universal coverage was bad no matter who you are. I like the concept of it, but the US can't afford it. Too many people to cover, and then too many who would be way too expensive to cover due to really, really poor health. Really, universal coverage would be fine if we were a smaller country both in population and in geographic size. State universal coverage? Maybe. Federal? Way too expensive.

Insurance reform starts with the insurance companies re-thinking their practices and pricing while the insured really think out their daily lives. Preventive care and being smarter about daily choices can really make an impact on healthcare expenditures. Plus, I don't mind my healthcare $ going to help you if you break an arm tumbling down the stands at Apogee. That's cool, accidents happen, go Mean Green. I would be kinda mad about it going to help someone who thinks a BigMac and XL soda is okay to eat at every meal.

One of the major problems is that people who don't have insurance can't afford preventive care. So until we live in a country where everyone has insurance (like every other civilized country in the world) people will die because they cannot afford insurance. The costs of having universal coverage will be great in the beginning, but once people are able to establish preventive care those costs will go down. Insurance companies are out to make money they don't care about people, especially in the US where everything is a money grab.

KRAM1 · August 25, 2011

One of the major problems is that people who don't have insurance can't afford preventive care. So until we live in a country where everyone has insurance (like every other civilized country in the world) people will die because they cannot afford insurance. The costs of having universal coverage will be great in the beginning, but once people are able to establish preventive care those costs will go down. Insurance companies are out to make money they don't care about people, especially in the US where everything is a money grab.

Well, that's extremely interesting as a lot of preventive care doesn't cost anything like not smoking (in fact that would save one money), not sitting around the house and watching hour after hour of TV or playing hour after hour of video games and actually getting some exercise instead, watching the sugar and fat intake in the foods eaten (and yes...low income families CAN eat healthy...choices, choices...personal responsibility), staying away from excessive alcohol consumption, staying off drugs, making sure you get to the numerous public clinics for the proper vaccinations (more often than not free or at a very small fee), using even the most modest of dental hygiene (like a toothbrush and toothpaste-wow, that's expensive), and on and on and on. I am not saying that all preventive care is free or at reduced costs, but all too often people are ill because they don't take care of the simplest and least costly items. You can ask any physician about this should you not believe me.

Tell me where the costs have gone down after a nation institutes universal health care coverage for its citizens? Please name one of those "civilized nations" you refer to where the cost of the nation's health care has declined over the last 20 years! Just because preventive care is available does not mean people will avail themselves of the service. You are dreaming if you think that just adding "free" services will change behavior. Also, you seem to assume that care would be better once universal health care is initiated, really? Better for whom?

Interesting comment of yours "insurance companies are out to make money, they don't care about people, especially in the US where everything is a money grab". Especially the "everything's a money grab" part.

I get it, some people believe that big government can do everything better than if people were allowed to make their own choices and take some personality for how their lives turn out. That is evident in all the socialist and communist nations around the globe. It is also evident in some of the thinking of some folks in Washington DC these days. So, that form of thinking is not rare,and I get it. I just happen to believe that it is "stinking thinking".

glick1980 · August 25, 2011

Well, that's extremely interesting as a lot of preventive care doesn't cost anything like not smoking (in fact that would save one money), not sitting around the house and watching hour after hour of TV or playing hour after hour of video games and actually getting some exercise instead, watching the sugar and fat intake in the foods eaten (and yes...low income families CAN eat healthy...choices, choices...personal responsibility), staying away from excessive alcohol consumption, staying off drugs, making sure you get to the numerous public clinics for the proper vaccinations (more often than not free or at a very small fee), using even the most modest of dental hygiene (like a toothbrush and toothpaste-wow, that's expensive), and on and on and on. I am not saying that all preventive care is free or at reduced costs, but all too often people are ill because they don't take care of the simplest and least costly items. You can ask any physician about this should you not believe me.

Tell me where the costs have gone down after a nation institutes universal health care coverage for its citizens? Please name one of those "civilized nations" you refer to where the cost of the nation's health care has declined over the last 20 years! Just because preventive care is available does not mean people will avail themselves of the service. You are dreaming if you think that just adding "free" services will change behavior. Also, you seem to assume that care would be better once universal health care is initiated, really? Better for whom?

Interesting comment of yours "insurance companies are out to make money, they don't care about people, especially in the US where everything is a money grab". Especially the "everything's a money grab" part.

I get it, some people believe that big government can do everything better than if people were allowed to make their own choices and take some personality for how their lives turn out. That is evident in all the socialist and communist nations around the globe. It is also evident in some of the thinking of some folks in Washington DC these days. So, that form of thinking is not rare,and I get it. I just happen to believe that it is "stinking thinking".

Not many things you listed is the first paragraph are preventive care. Things such as yearly physicals, blood tests, x-rays and so on are preventive care. Sitting on the couch and eating bad are choices people make, making the right choice does not constitute "care".

In US dollars the per-capita spending for health care in Canada is about half of what it is in the US ($3,678 to $6,714 in 2006). We spend over 5% more of our GDP on healthcare than Canada and they live longer and they have healthier babies that have lower mortality rates. Basically Canada has better health care and they pay half of what we do. Capitalism is not always a good thing and this is one example where it is not.

Edited August 25, 2011 by glick1980

KRAM1 · August 25, 2011

Not many things you listed is the first paragraph are preventive care. Things such as yearly physicals, blood tests, x-rays and so on are preventive care. Sitting on the couch and eating bad are choices people make, making the right choice does not constitute "care".

In US dollars the per-capita spending for health care in Canada is about half of what it is in the US ($3,678 to $6,714 in 2006). We spend over 5% more of our GDP on health care than Canada and they live longer and they have healthier babies that have lower mortality rates. Basically Canada has better health care and they pay half of what we do. Capitalism is not always a good thing and this is one example where it is not.

What Canada spends now compared to what the US spends says absolutely ZERO about whether the costs for the program in Canada have increased or decreased over time. And, if you don't think making good health choices personally is "preventive care" then it's no wonder you want the government to take care of you.

I hear they have wonderful government sponsored health care in Cuba...how's that whole thing working out for them? You think any Cubans would prefer to live in the US than under the Cuban system given the "civilized nation" status of the Cuban system?

You know, sometimes the "Gate Theory" says a lot about quality of life issues in countries (and states and cities for that matter). Heard about the "Gate Theory" this morning...not original with me. I wish it was...but it goes like this...if you open the gates wide open, take a look the countries whose citizens leave and countries where the citizens stay...like I say you could say this about states and cities as well. That little exercise might just say more about the quality of life people want and where they want to get it than you "civilized nations" concept.

My friends who live in that "civilized" nation of England do not like the NHS...they say it definitely rations health care and they have been on the list for a "non-essential" operation for about 18 months now...oh, it's a knee replacement. I guess that's non-essential. They have also mentioned that once you get to a certain age, you are pretty much "rationed out" of certain types of care/operations, etc. Nice! They are considering coming to the states to get that knee done and paying for it out of pocket. That's how non-essential they think it is. Maybe it's not always those big bad insurance companies who don't care about people. This is a "civilized nation" we are talking about here. Surely they care about people. Just one example of the "civilized nation" and health care working out just real super. I know it's one example, but guess what else....the poor in England complain as much as the poor in the US do about lack of access and not enough facilities and doctors in poor neighborhoods. Wonder why that is? They are so very "civilized" and all that.

My son and daughter-in-law are both young Navy MD's. They talk all the time about patients coming in with every sort of small issue because the care is free to service members. These folks take time away from treating the actually sick and hurt service members...goes for the service members dependents as well as the service member himself/herself. The service members often start piling in when their units are about to deploy overseas or their ships are about to deploy on tour with all kinds of "mystery ailments" they hope will keep them from having to deploy with their units. When care is "free" plenty of folks will abuse the system. "Free" in this case simply means someone else...the US taxpayer" is covering the cost.

I guess the real thing here is that if you are a fan of big government, like the nanny-state concept and think the government will make better decisions that the citizenry and you personally will over this issue then you'll love Obamacare or any form of government sponsored and controlled health care. If you, like me, think smaller and less government, personal choice and personal responsibility is the better option, then you'll not be such a fan of Obamacare. I don't think either side will be talked out of their position. So, we'll just all have to see where this goes. It will definitely go somewhere and we'll all learn to live with whichever way it goes.

glick1980 · August 25, 2011

What Canada spends now compared to what the US spends says absolutely ZERO about whether the costs for the program in Canada have increased or decreased over time. And, if you don't think making good health choices personally is "preventive care" then it's no wonder you want the government to take care of you.

I hear they have wonderful government sponsored health care in Cuba...how's that whole thing working out for them? You think any Cubans would prefer to live in the US than under the Cuban system given the "civilized nation" status of the Cuban system?

You know, sometimes the "Gate Theory" says a lot about quality of life issues in countries (and states and cities for that matter). Heard about the "Gate Theory" this morning...not original with me. I wish it was...but it goes like this...if you open the gates wide open, take a look the countries whose citizens leave and countries where the citizens stay...like I say you could say this about states and cities as well. That little exercise might just say more about the quality of life people want and where they want to get it than you "civilized nations" concept.

My friends who live in that "civilized" nation of England do not like the NHS...they say it definitely rations health care and they have been on the list for a "non-essential" operation for about 18 months now...oh, it's a knee replacement. I guess that's non-essential. They have also mentioned that once you get to a certain age, you are pretty much "rationed out" of certain types of care/operations, etc. Nice! They are considering coming to the states to get that knee done and paying for it out of pocket. That's how non-essential they think it is. Maybe it's not always those big bad insurance companies who don't care about people. This is a "civilized nation" we are talking about here. Surely they care about people. Just one example of the "civilized nation" and health care working out just real super. I know it's one example, but guess what else....the poor in England complain as much as the poor in the US do about lack of access and not enough facilities and doctors in poor neighborhoods. Wonder why that is? They are so very "civilized" and all that.

My son and daughter-in-law are both young Navy MD's. They talk all the time about patients coming in with every sort of small issue because the care is free to service members. These folks take time away from treating the actually sick and hurt service members...goes for the service members dependents as well as the service member himself/herself. The service members often start piling in when their units are about to deploy overseas or their ships are about to deploy on tour with all kinds of "mystery ailments" they hope will keep them from having to deploy with their units. When care is "free" plenty of folks will abuse the system. "Free" in this case simply means someone else...the US taxpayer" is covering the cost.

I guess the real thing here is that if you are a fan of big government, like the nanny-state concept and think the government will make better decisions that the citizenry and you personally will over this issue then you'll love Obamacare or any form of government sponsored and controlled health care. If you, like me, think smaller and less government, personal choice and personal responsibility is the better option, then you'll not be such a fan of Obamacare. I don't think either side will be talked out of their position. So, we'll just all have to see where this goes. It will definitely go somewhere and we'll all learn to live with whichever way it goes.

Here is the definition of preventive care since you do not know what it means - preventive care - a pattern of nursing and medical care that focuses on disease prevention and health maintenance. It includes early diagnosis of disease, discovery and identification of people at risk of development of specific problems, counseling, and other necessary intervention to avert a health problem. Screening tests, health education, and immunization programs are common examples of preventive care. Please tell me how making the right choices in food consmption or personal habits has anything to do with a pattern of nursing or medical care? Prices of everything go up do to inflation and other factors, a better indicator is how much something costs somewhere else in relation to its cost here. Cuba is not a developed country, there are 42 developed countries in the world, the US is the only one without some form of universal healthcare. Your friend's experience in England does not paint a picture for the entire country, how many people in the US cannot afford to have a knee replacement they need? How is a comparision between Navy personnel who don't want to deploy and normal citizens relevant? I pass on that one, it makes no sense and is comparing apples to oranges. Do you get to make choices on your insurance now? I don't. My employer makes the choice and I have to deal with it. I guess I could pay for it out of pocket but that would just be dumb. There is no simple solution to this, but costs are skyrocketing and employers are cutting insurance altogether adding to an already 45 million people without insurance.

Edited August 25, 2011 by glick1980

KRAM1 · August 25, 2011

Here is the definition of preventive care since you do not know what it means - preventive care - a pattern of nursing and medical care that focuses on disease prevention and health maintenance. It includes early diagnosis of disease, discovery and identification of people at risk of development of specific problems, counseling, and other necessary intervention to avert a health problem. Screening tests, health education, and immunization programs are common examples of preventive care. Please tell me how making the right choices in food consmption or personal habits has anything to do with a pattern of nursing or medical care? Prices of everything go up do to inflation and other factors, a better indicator is how much something costs somewhere else in relation to its cost here. Cuba is not a developed country, there are 42 developed countries in the world, the US is the only one without some form of universal healthcare. Your friend's experience in England does not paint a picture for the entire country, how many people in the US cannot afford to have a knee replacement they need? How is a comparision between Navy personnel who don't want to deploy and normal citizens relevant? I pass on that one, it makes no sense and is comparing apples to oranges. Do you get to make choices on your insurance now? I don't. My employer makes the choice and I have to deal with it. I guess I could pay for it out of pocket but that would just be dumb. There is no simple solution to this, but costs are skyrocketing and employers are cutting insurance altogether adding to an already 45 million people without insurance.

Funny guy...I could care less what the clinical definition of preventive care is...I care about what helps people maintain a healthy life. Going to a doctor for a check-up and finding out you are fat and need to lose weight because you are now susceptible to type II diabetes is not keeping you healthy in any way shape or form...maintaining a healthy life style may well have PREVENTED that condition in the first place and REDUCED the guys cost of health care in the first place...and the taxpayers under your idea of "civilized nation" status...so again...if you don't think maintaining a healthy life style is preventive care, you are kidding yourself.

NO, your employer doesn't. You are not required to take out that insurance and are free to find you own or go without. It's a choice...you have NO choice in the government sponsored program...what is so hard to figure out about that? The Naval comparison is legit and points to what happens when care is seen to be "free". I have definitely made a choice on my insurance. I chose NOT to take the coverage provided by my employer and chose to find it elsewhere...which I did. See, I had a choice and I availed myself of that choice...you could too, you just choose not to do so...that's what choice is all about. It doesn't mean it costs less, but it also doesn't mean that you have no choice. You in fact have made a choice which those folks in your "civilized nations" don't have the right to make.

So, Cuba is not a civilized nation? Is Iran? China? North Korea? They have national health care systems as well. I thought to be a "civilized nation" you had to provide national health care coverage? Really, I'm just having a little fun with you there.... :notfair:

So costs are skyrocketing...so, let's make it better and see costs go even higher with choices limited through a national health care plan? Not my idea of a good choice.

Again, nanny state vs personal choice and personal responsibility. You decide. I've made my decision. Now we can all see where it goes and learn to live with it either way.

Green2012 · August 26, 2011

Here is the definition of preventive care since you do not know what it means - preventive care - a pattern of nursing and medical care that focuses on disease prevention and health maintenance. It includes early diagnosis of disease, discovery and identification of people at risk of development of specific problems, counseling, and other necessary intervention to avert a health problem. Screening tests, health education, and immunization programs are common examples of preventive care. Please tell me how making the right choices in food consmption or personal habits has anything to do with a pattern of nursing or medical care?

Good convo from both sides. I think KRAM is trying to point out that preventative care doesn't have to be done by a nurse and clip board. If you read the definition you provided, many are not necessary to promote a healthy lifestyle and prevent anything. We shouldn't need the doctor to tell us we are overweight and need to cut back on the fries and icecream. We shouldn't need the doctor to tell us to exercise after a office job all day, or that cigarettes, tobacco, alcohol, sniffing paint pens, drinking butter, etc. are bad for us. Sure, early diagnosis and discovery would certainly help in cutting costs but how many of those diseases, cancers, or operations could of been avoided by better choices in the past? Of course many couldn't be avoided but I'm sure many cases exist that could've been. I think we've kinda lost the personal responsibility part of America and we are witnessing its effects on our economy, health care, and education systems now.

UNT90 · August 26, 2011

Talk to Canadians about the quality of their health care. I did last night. Doctors treat you like a number and the least expensive treatment is the only thing approved by the government in many cases. Just because everyone is covered doesn't mean that the coverage is worth a dang.

Check ups are great, but do little (aside from early detection of a major disease) to improve health. It may tell you that your blood pressure is high, but if you are overweight and eat like crap, you probably already knew this. It is still up to the individual to change the way he lives his life. Without that change, check ups are basically worthless.

What is severly lacking in the states is education on nutrition and exercise and their effect on your health. This should be taught from an early age and pounded into the skulls of our children.

Green2012 · August 26, 2011

Talk to Canadians about the quality of their health care. I did last night. Doctors treat you like a number and the least expensive treatment is the only thing approved by the government in many cases. Just because everyone is covered doesn't mean that the coverage is worth a dang.

Check ups are great, but do little (aside from early detection of a major disease) to improve health. It may tell you that your blood pressure is high, but if you are overweight and eat like crap, you probably already knew this. It is still up to the individual to change the way he lives his life. Without that change, check ups are basically worthless.

What is severly lacking in the states is education on nutrition and exercise and their effect on your health. This should be taught from an early age and pounded into the skulls of our children.

I think parents got to do a better job too in raising their kids. A young child, either boy or girl doesn't know he/she shouldn't be gobbling up Burger King and watching tv all day. Parents gotta do a better job of encouraging outside activity and providing a more nutritious meal.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Green2012