New Braunfels bans beer cans on rivers

[Baby Arm!]

Link

As someone who lives in NB all I can say is it's about time!

[UNT90]

Only in the City Limits. You can still beer it up on the horseshoe.

Big hit to the sales tax coffers coming next summer.

[Baby Arm!]

Only in the City Limits. You can still beer it up on the horseshoe.

Big hit to the sales tax coffers coming next summer.

Except there's no water up there. That's what's driving all the traffic to the Comal this year.

[UNT90]

Except there's no water up there. That's what's driving all the traffic to the Comal this year.

Trust me, I know. We rent a house above the horseshoe every year. What is usually a 2 hour float to the 1st public access took 4 hours this year.

I think the problem is the Guadalupe river level has been so inconsistent that it drives the partiers to the comal. They should have made the ordinance specific to the Comal, that way they would have had an adult river and a family river (the Comal).

Not a smart move, as the guadalupe brings a TON of commerce to the area.

[KRAM1]

Business folks are already gearing up for the lawsuit over this. Big hit to the city tax and business coffers if this actually takes effect. Guy on the radio this morning said they were trying to decide WHEN (not if) to file the lawsuit...either now or Sept. 1st when the reg is to take effect. He said it's just when they file.

If you live in NB full time, I might see your point. I am just wondering, however, if this is akin to "throwing the baby out with the bath water"? Is there absolutely ZERO way to handle this other than a complete ban which to me would surly hurt the tax base and the restaurant and the hotel/motel businesses in the area big time.

Is it really all or nothing?

[oldguystudent]

It's not a ban on alcohol. It's a ban on disposable containers. I see business opportunity in rigging small, chilled kegs that float and charging a documented deposit for the container to show that it's not disposable in addition to the rental fee and price of beer to fill them. Set up a collection point at the down river public access so the tuber can get his deposit back without trudging back upstream.

[UNT90]

It's not a ban on alcohol. It's a ban on disposable containers. I see business opportunity in rigging small, chilled kegs that float and charging a documented deposit for the container to show that it's not disposable in addition to the rental fee and price of beer to fill them. Set up a collection point at the down river public access so the tuber can get his deposit back without trudging back upstream.

Good idea, but just one more overpriced hassel for the consumer. The Hill country has many tubable rivers. NB needs to tread lightly or risk losing patrons to other counties.

[KRAM1]

It's not a ban on alcohol. It's a ban on disposable containers. I see business opportunity in rigging small, chilled kegs that float and charging a documented deposit for the container to show that it's not disposable in addition to the rental fee and price of beer to fill them. Set up a collection point at the down river public access so the tuber can get his deposit back without trudging back upstream.

So, how does one drink the beer from said non-disposable containers? Cup ones hands or rig up a straw? No cups allowed! Banning disposable containers also bans water, soda, juice for the wee ones, etc., etc. Your idea has merit, but UNT90 is also correct. Set up too many hassles and pricing barriers and the folks will find some other place to spend their hard earned recreational dollars. Do not for one second think this ban will have no impact on the tax base and merchants of NB. I would foresee a nice little city-wide tax increase coming for all the good citizen of NB should this ban actually take place, and NB might just lose some local businesses and employers as well. Again, I understand some of the issues the locals may have with tubers, but they may need to be careful what they ask for here as they might just get it.

Is there absolutely ZERO compromise here? Could there be a deposit on all disposable cans and bottles that might help keep some of the disposables out of the river and off the banks of the river? I don't know...that's a fee on all citizens as well, right? Sort of like the good citizens in Deina now having to pay a $5.00 fee to park their own cars in their own neighborhood because they were afraid of some game day traffic 6 days a year! That's funny and probably not an expected consequence of the vocal minority getting their way.

If you live in the area, please give us some background here and let us know exactly why this is such a big problem. Like UNT90 my family and I have done the tubing thing several times. Spent a good bit of money in the area as well renting a condo room, eating out for all meals on several days, buying "stuff" (beer, soda, water, snacks for the river float) and incidentals, buying gasoline, etc. And, we left nothing behind in either the river or on the river bank. All trash went into our floating cooler that "Tagged along" with us on the float each time.

[oldguystudent]

I don't know why I've picked up on this story because I've never been there, I've never tubed down the river, and I really don't care. For some reason, I just find it fascinating. UNT90 and KRAM are looking at it from the perspective of government intervention causing loss of area revenue and tax base. Honestly, that didn't even occur to me. I immediately went into "how could one circumvent this?" mode.

As for no cups, probably no red cups, but sports bottles would be fine as they're not disposable.

Anyhoo, Texas continues to befuddle me. I can't take a beer from my lawn (private) to the sidewalk (public), but I can drink myself silly floating down a river?

[Baby Arm!]

Since you asked for a local's perspective, here's mine: This isn't a ban on alcohol. In this morning's Herald-Zeitung the outfitters are already making plans on providing mini-kegs for carbonated drinks. Juice and water can be placed in non-disposable drinking containers and jugs. Comprimise has been tried for years. We've tried limits on cooler size, banning jello shots, glass and stryrofoam. Trash barges on river, mesh litter bags provided, None have worked yet. The river pollution is out of control and the vast majority of tubers don't care they are trashing our rivers.

This isnt a vocal miniority here either There has been an outcry this year for the city to do something. We are tired. Tired of the tons of trash, tired of the drunks, tired of bad behavior. tired of people urinating in our yards. Tired of the fights, the public nudity. Tired of drunks leaving the river and into their cars to drive on our streets. The rivers inside the city used to be family friendly. You can't take your kids there anymore.

Background, If you tube through an outfitter you already have to pay a fee that goes towards river clean up. Problem is the vast majority of tubers within the city limits don't use outfitters. They come to town with their own tube and booze and leave nothing but trash and bad behavior. This summer has been worse than previous years with the lower river levels on the Guad and Frio, traffic on the Comal has been up exponentialy. A couple of times this year they actually had to close the river a couple of times because there were too many people on it and it became a safety issue. Also there has been an increase in bad behavior directly tied to alcohol. For instance this summer 3 people have died on the Comal. Alcohol was a contributing factor in two of the deaths. Another incident was an off duty US Marine was drunk began assaulting his girlfriend, when NBPD intervened the Marine attacked the officer and choked him to unconsciousness before backup arrived. Citations and arrests for MIP, PI, DUI are way up.

Why is this a big problem.. 1) LITTER. Every weekend there are litteraly thousands of pounds of beer cans on the bottom of the river. The river bottom has a carpet of beer cans. Photo Some may clean up after themselves but the vast majority don't The city cleans it up every weekend, but it only repeats itself week after week. The river clean up fee doesnt begin to pay for it all. Plus with the increased traffic the NBPD has officers on mandatory overtime the cost of the patroling the river is draining city coffers.

2)Environmental factors- Currently the water quality in the Comal is ok but fears are it has been comprimised by the trash, alcohol, and urine. There's is just too much of it for nature to overcome. The river is a habitat of an endangered species. There has been talk if the city didn't do something the EPA could close the river to all tubing.

More people on the river means a slower float, what used to take 2 hours is now taking 4-5 hours. People are drinking more and trashing the river. Thought behind the ban is it will put an end to the mountains of trash and slow down the drinking.

If you are one of the tourist that come and float the rivers, clean up after yourself... GREAT, YOU ARE WELCOMED. However the bad apples are ruining it for you. Don't blame the city and citizens of New Braunfels for the extra hassel. Blame the bad apples.

[KRAM1]

Since you asked for a local's perspective, here's mine: This isn't a ban on alcohol. In this morning's Herald-Zeitung the outfitters are already making plans on providing mini-kegs for carbonated drinks. Juice and water can be placed in non-disposable drinking containers and jugs. Comprimise has been tried for years. We've tried limits on cooler size, banning jello shots, glass and stryrofoam. Trash barges on river, mesh litter bags provided, None have worked yet. The river pollution is out of control and the vast majority of tubers don't care they are trashing our rivers.

This isnt a vocal miniority here either There has been an outcry this year for the city to do something. We are tired. Tired of the tons of trash, tired of the drunks, tired of bad behavior. tired of people urinating in our yards. Tired of the fights, the public nudity. Tired of drunks leaving the river and into their cars to drive on our streets. The rivers inside the city used to be family friendly. You can't take your kids there anymore.

Background, If you tube through an outfitter you already have to pay a fee that goes towards river clean up. Problem is the vast majority of tubers within the city limits don't use outfitters. They come to town with their own tube and booze and leave nothing but trash and bad behavior. This summer has been worse than previous years with the lower river levels on the Guad and Frio, traffic on the Comal has been up exponentialy. A couple of times this year they actually had to close the river a couple of times because there were too many people on it and it became a safety issue. Also there has been an increase in bad behavior directly tied to alcohol. For instance this summer 3 people have died on the Comal. Alcohol was a contributing factor in two of the deaths. Another incident was an off duty US Marine was drunk began assaulting his girlfriend, when NBPD intervened the Marine attacked the officer and choked him to unconsciousness before backup arrived. Citations and arrests for MIP, PI, DUI are way up.

Why is this a big problem.. 1) LITTER. Every weekend there are litteraly thousands of pounds of beer cans on the bottom of the river. The river bottom has a carpet of beer cans. Photo Some may clean up after themselves but the vast majority don't The city cleans it up every weekend, but it only repeats itself week after week. The river clean up fee doesnt begin to pay for it all. Plus with the increased traffic the NBPD has officers on mandatory overtime the cost of the patroling the river is draining city coffers.

2)Environmental factors- Currently the water quality in the Comal is ok but fears are it has been comprimised by the trash, alcohol, and urine. There's is just too much of it for nature to overcome. The river is a habitat of an endangered species. There has been talk if the city didn't do something the EPA could close the river to all tubing.

More people on the river means a slower float, what used to take 2 hours is now taking 4-5 hours. People are drinking more and trashing the river. Thought behind the ban is it will put an end to the mountains of trash and slow down the drinking.

If you are one of the tourist that come and float the rivers, clean up after yourself... GREAT, YOU ARE WELCOMED. However the bad apples are ruining it for you. Don't blame the city and citizens of New Braunfels for the extra hassel. Blame the bad apples.

Well, isn't that always the way it is? A few "bad apples" who could care less about anything or anybody other than themselves mess it up for the majority of people who do care. Appreciate the perspective of a "local" who actually does have a dog in this hunt.

Now, that public nudity thing...depending upon if they are male or female, the age involved...well, that might be a good thing. OK, just kidding. I totally get it, especially if you have young kids.

"Sticky Wicket" here for sure. Too bad you just can't ban the idiots from the river. I think UNT90 has a license to pack heat...maybe he can pick a few of the idiots off for you locals! Again...just kidding.

Yes, I see this as a big economic question for the good citizens of the NB area. I'll leave it up to them to figure out how to best settle it, but it will generate a lawsuit either before or after the regulation goes into effect. I guess the costs to defend the suit might be less than the costs of clean-up and crowd control...if the city wins of course. What happens if the ordinance is struck down? Does NB have a Plan B waiting? Hope so.

[Army of Dad]

Since you asked for a local's perspective, here's mine: This isn't a ban on alcohol. In this morning's Herald-Zeitung the outfitters are already making plans on providing mini-kegs for carbonated drinks. Juice and water can be placed in non-disposable drinking containers and jugs. Comprimise has been tried for years. We've tried limits on cooler size, banning jello shots, glass and stryrofoam. Trash barges on river, mesh litter bags provided, None have worked yet. The river pollution is out of control and the vast majority of tubers don't care they are trashing our rivers.

This isnt a vocal miniority here either There has been an outcry this year for the city to do something. We are tired. Tired of the tons of trash, tired of the drunks, tired of bad behavior. tired of people urinating in our yards. Tired of the fights, the public nudity. Tired of drunks leaving the river and into their cars to drive on our streets. The rivers inside the city used to be family friendly. You can't take your kids there anymore.

Background, If you tube through an outfitter you already have to pay a fee that goes towards river clean up. Problem is the vast majority of tubers within the city limits don't use outfitters. They come to town with their own tube and booze and leave nothing but trash and bad behavior. This summer has been worse than previous years with the lower river levels on the Guad and Frio, traffic on the Comal has been up exponentialy. A couple of times this year they actually had to close the river a couple of times because there were too many people on it and it became a safety issue. Also there has been an increase in bad behavior directly tied to alcohol. For instance this summer 3 people have died on the Comal. Alcohol was a contributing factor in two of the deaths. Another incident was an off duty US Marine was drunk began assaulting his girlfriend, when NBPD intervened the Marine attacked the officer and choked him to unconsciousness before backup arrived. Citations and arrests for MIP, PI, DUI are way up.

Why is this a big problem.. 1) LITTER. Every weekend there are litteraly thousands of pounds of beer cans on the bottom of the river. The river bottom has a carpet of beer cans. Photo Some may clean up after themselves but the vast majority don't The city cleans it up every weekend, but it only repeats itself week after week. The river clean up fee doesnt begin to pay for it all. Plus with the increased traffic the NBPD has officers on mandatory overtime the cost of the patroling the river is draining city coffers.

2)Environmental factors- Currently the water quality in the Comal is ok but fears are it has been comprimised by the trash, alcohol, and urine. There's is just too much of it for nature to overcome. The river is a habitat of an endangered species. There has been talk if the city didn't do something the EPA could close the river to all tubing.

More people on the river means a slower float, what used to take 2 hours is now taking 4-5 hours. People are drinking more and trashing the river. Thought behind the ban is it will put an end to the mountains of trash and slow down the drinking.

If you are one of the tourist that come and float the rivers, clean up after yourself... GREAT, YOU ARE WELCOMED. However the bad apples are ruining it for you. Don't blame the city and citizens of New Braunfels for the extra hassel. Blame the bad apples.

Great in depth post. I hate seeing the trash in the wild and when I take my kids fishing, hunting, or hiking we always pack out more trash than we carry in. It is a small thing, but I can't look at all the trash and do nothing. Those pictures of the river bottom are just horrible.

However, New Braunfels (and for that matter every other city in the US) doesn't have citizens. You are residents, but we do not have city states. I do think if this ban stands up in court you are likely to see a serious dip (sorry for the pun) in tax receipts. Perhaps there is a way to institute a check station and make people responsible for packing out what they bring in. Yes the lines would suck and the innocent would be punished with the guilty there, but the fines/fees for missing containers would be borne by the guilty/irresponsible. This could also be a good way for local law enforcement to identify potential DWI offenders...

[Baby Arm!]

There will be a lawsuit. Outfitters always sue when a new regulation is enacted. Previous regulations limiting cooler size, and banning glass and stryofoam containers were challenged in court too. Those regulations are still in place. Who knows how future litigation will come out but since there are already bans on certain types of containers, the city believes this regulation would hold up too.

As far as sales taxes, There are lots of families that would probably go float the river more often if it weren't a floating beerfest. Might not hurt the economy so bad.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Baby Arm!