The problem I think we face today

[Green2012]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wacfY-w0Vjc&feature=related

And I apologize if this comes off as a democrat bash simply because that's the link I used but that's not what this topic is about. If someone has a good Conservative video feel free to post the link.

I like to read articles that are conservative and liberal slanted. I think this helps me try to get a good idea of the entire political spectrum and how all the parties feel on different topics. Obviously I disagree with many, if not all, of the liberal points, BUT I still completely respect their thoughts.

And then I read the comments section.....

The above video is the type of stuff I typically come across. Just a complete lack of knowledge. I would be willing to bet that these completely off thoughts spread like wild fire throughout the liberal army. Like I said... I completely respect knowledgeable democrats that are capable of debating a good subject. But these videos and comments I keep coming across are driving me insane. Talking with some liberals the other day about their thoughts and they actually thought that rich people pay a less AMOUNT of tax. Ex.) They thought if they were paying 10 dollars total in taxes, a wealthy person was paying 8 dollars total in taxes "because they are rich and the republicans only want poor people to pay taxes." They thought healthcare was really going to be "free". Like poof magic free. Money from the skies free. "Obama's stash" type free. When asked how we should encourage job growth they thought we should raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations. They thought we should "make gas prices lower" by simply "telling the oil companies to charge less". They thought public education was funded through federal taxes.

How do you even begin to debate with people like this when they are so far from being anywhere close to anything remotely correct? The problem is - we aren't dealing with intelligent democrats (or republicans) that simply have a different view on things. We are dealing with completely uneducated citizens that are completely off base. Quite frankly, its pretty scary.

This was just my most recent experience and democrats feel free to share any conversations you've had with conservative idiots because I'm sure they exist too.

[All About UNT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wacfY-w0Vjc&feature=related

And I apologize if this comes off as a democrat bash simply because that's the link I used but that's not what this topic is about. If someone has a good Conservative video feel free to post the link.

I like to read articles that are conservative and liberal slanted. I think this helps me try to get a good idea of the entire political spectrum and how all the parties feel on different topics. Obviously I disagree with many, if not all, of the liberal points, BUT I still completely respect their thoughts.

And then I read the comments section.....

The above video is the type of stuff I typically come across. Just a complete lack of knowledge. I would be willing to bet that these completely off thoughts spread like wild fire throughout the liberal army. Like I said... I completely respect knowledgeable democrats that are capable of debating a good subject. But these videos and comments I keep coming across are driving me insane. Talking with some liberals the other day about their thoughts and they actually thought that rich people pay a less AMOUNT of tax. Ex.) They thought if they were paying 10 dollars total in taxes, a wealthy person was paying 8 dollars total in taxes "because they are rich and the republicans only want poor people to pay taxes." They thought healthcare was really going to be "free". Like poof magic free. Money from the skies free. "Obama's stash" type free. When asked how we should encourage job growth they thought we should raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations. They thought we should "make gas prices lower" by simply "telling the oil companies to charge less". They thought public education was funded through federal taxes.

How do you even begin to debate with people like this when they are so far from being anywhere close to anything remotely correct? The problem is - we aren't dealing with intelligent democrats (or republicans) that simply have a different view on things. We are dealing with completely uneducated citizens that are completely off base. Quite frankly, its pretty scary.

This was just my most recent experience and democrats feel free to share any conversations you've had with conservative idiots because I'm sure they exist too.

If you like videos full of idiots then you will love this one. Pay special attention to how the Cornerstone Preacher's thoughts on God allowing the Holocaust in order drive the Jews back into Israel so that could resettle the Holy Land.

By the way....I really hope the caller on that video you posted was a bit because I sincerely believe she should not be allowed to have children.

[Green Mean]

All parties/sides/people have their share of ignorance. This is nothing new.

[UNTflyer]

How do you even begin to debate with people like this when they are so far from being anywhere close to anything remotely correct?

Funny thing... the founders believed that voters should be: 1. Land-Owners and/or tax-payer, and 2. Over age 25.

Women and minorities, not being permitted to own land, were therefore implicitly denied the right to vote.

Did they do this because they hated women and minorities? No, they did it because they believed that democracy was a form of mob rule, and that only those with a vested interest in society should be permitted to elect our leaders.

And it worked. Our first five Presidents are generally accknowledged to be our best. Now, that's not to say we should go back to that. But it demonstrates the importance of being informed. Democracies around the world are on a path to failure because we have placed the "rights" of individuals above the evolution and betterment of society and community.

Make no mistake about it - America and every other western country will fail as a result of democracy. The only way back is to embrace the idea of the republic.

Democracy = Majority controls Man

Republic = Man limits Majority

[Mean Green 93-98]

. . . minorities, not being permitted to own land . . .

I'm sure that was true in many places, but was that true at a national level? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't recall hearing that before.

[CMJ]

And it worked. Our first five Presidents are generally accknowledged to be our best.

Really? I'm not sure about that. John Adams has had a recent revival of his image, but he's never at the very top of any lists. Madison isn't either - and generally gets a lot of criticism for helping instigate the War of 1812. Monroe, despite governing over the Era of Good feelings is generally just rated in the top 3rd.

That's not to say any of them were bad presidents, generally speaking they're mostly all considered successful to some degree (even Adams). But usually Lincoln is thought of to be either be ahead of, or slightly behind Washington as our best. And he has his detractors as well. Really, all of of our presidents do - save maybe Harrison, and that's only because he died a month into his term.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Really? I'm not sure about that. John Adams has had a recent revival of his image, but he's never at the very top of any lists. Madison isn't either - and generally gets a lot of criticism for helping instigate the War of 1812. Monroe, despite governing over the Era of Good feelings is generally just rated in the top 3rd.

That's not to say any of them were bad presidents, generally speaking they're mostly all considered successful to some degree (even Adams). But usually Lincoln is thought of to be either be ahead of, or slightly behind Washington as our best. And he has his detractors as well. Really, all of of our presidents do - save maybe Harrison, and that's only because he died a month into his term.

From Wikipedia:

James Madison, Jr. (March 16, 1751 – June 28, 1836) was an American statesman and political theorist. He was the fourth President of the United States (1809–1817) and is hailed as the “Father of the Constitution” for being the primary author of the United States Constitution and the author of the United States Bill of Rights.

__________________

---I would say that puts him in a pretty good position in the rankings... unless you don't think much of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I wouldn't call any of these guys Conservative ... they supported change ... the Tories (conservatives) didn't. The founding fathers also supported the separation fo church and state... didn't think religion should control government or governmnet should control religion..... because of what they had seen in Europe and all the wars as the result of religious beliefs. Above video seems to show the opposite of those beliefs. That doesn't mean people shouldn't be religious though.... just not try to control each other.

Edited August 22, 2011 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[CMJ]

From Wikipedia:

James Madison, Jr. (March 16, 1751 – June 28, 1836) was an American statesman and political theorist. He was the fourth President of the United States (1809–1817) and is hailed as the “Father of the Constitution” for being the primary author of the United States Constitution and the author of the United States Bill of Rights.

I would say that puts him in a pretty position in the rankings... unless you don't think much of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

We're not talking about his whole career, but his presidency itself. Completely different criteria. If you go by just Scholar surveys off of Wikipedia his aggregate ranking as 13th. That's definitely decent, but it's in the 2nd tier.

[UNTflyer]

Yeah... but this one that ranks Obama #15?

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2010/07/02/survey-ranks-obama-15th-best-president-bush-among-worst

[Mean Green 93-98]

We're not talking about his whole career, but his presidency itself. Completely different criteria. If you go by just Scholar surveys off of Wikipedia his aggregate ranking as 13th. That's definitely decent, but it's in the 2nd tier.

Uh, that also puts Barack Obama at #14 and loses all credibility with me.

[CMJ]

Uh, that also puts Barack Obama at #14 and loses all credibility with me.

He also has only one score listed...DURING his presidency. That's not much to average. The fewer ranking marks you have, the less valid the score (and no score is valid while someone is still IN office).

It's really not fair to include any president on those lists that has been out of office less than about 50 years. I'd actually say none of us can accurately judge any president that left office from around our HS years onwards, because we have too much of a personal attachment (either for or against) to their terms. The reason I throw 50 years post presidency is because that would basically mean most of the people that were really around for that respective president's time in office would be moving into the twilight of their life (or deceased depending).

And most of the historians would have grown up (or perhaps even been born after) the presidents they are passing judgement on were long gone.

I could just as easily say 75-80 years to make it more an absolute thing, but I think 50 works pretty well.

Edited August 22, 2011 by CMJ

[KRAM1]

You have hit on something that has bothered me for a long time. That is the complete ignorance of many of the citizens of this great nation regarding anything about it's history, its government and the political process. All you have to do is chat with someone to find they can't spell "Constitution" much less know anything about it. They can't tell you the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution much less discuss in any way how the Fed works, etc. They have no clue who their Representatives or Senators are, how many years they serve in a term or what party they represent.

One has to wonder why this is so. I have my thoughts on the subject and perhaps you have yours, but the fact is that it is a major issue and it is a shame. Just witness Jay Leno's "man on the street-Jay Walking" bits sometime and listen to the answers to his very simple questions. Sure, that's an over-the-top example, but try it yourself sometime with some folks when you find yourself in a crowd. You might just be amazed at the answers you get and the "deer in the headlights" stare from those who even have college degrees.

Sure, it's no where near everyone, but these folks vote. At least they have the right to vote. An uneducated voter base is a very dangerous thing indeed. Perhaps Jefferson had a point, perhaps not, but it is clear that the responsibility of being a citizen in this great nation of ours is being ignored by an awful lot of people.

[Coffee and TV]

Idiots abound on both sides. You want to see a conservative example? Any Obama story on Yahoo! news. Saw one guy that had a photoshopped (duh) avatar of Obama with his arm around bin Laden's shoulder. Nevermind that Obama ordered the strike to kill bin Laden...nevermind that minor detail.