Big 12-2/Minus 2 Conference done...how do we benefit

SilverEagle · August 26, 2011

You know, all this talk about the former SWC schools and their "history" just doesn't hold much water with me. Any conference like the B-12 should be looking for growth potential. Out of the three private schools that used to be in the old SWC, the one that has really grown(status-wise) is TCU. And as someone else has pointed out, they've positioned themselves in a very good conference already.

I see us as a better " growth down the road" option for the B-12 than any of the private schools that used to be in the old SWC.

And if not the B-12, then the MWC would be the next viable option.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · August 26, 2011

I will believe it when I see it at this point. So far out of all of this we have seen A&M jump up and down and scream "We are tired of this shit and screw you guys I am leaving" and then after that we see the SEC say not so fast,. Now we hear all week that A&M is leaving the Big 12 and so far all they have done is send a letter stating that their intentions is to look around at other conferences and what are the potential fees and procedures at leaving at this time.

It is hard to leave without having a 100% guaranteed landing spot and even harder to leave when Texas politics get involved. We still have not heard a peep out of the Higher Ed board, and before this is all said ad done they will have their time in the spot light as well. This is far from over and I am not entirely sure it will ever happen. CBS is already stating that they do not have to renegotiate with the SEC if they expand and that the deal has predefined windows that they can come to the table to consider renegotiation, not specific clauses due to realignment. They have no real desire to blow up their current contract to make a new one to pay the SEC more.

Why would the SEC expand if they would make less doing so? Add that to Fox and the Big 12 rumbling about a TI suit against the SEC if this happens and this whole thing gets real ugly in a hurry. Does the SEC want Fox and the Big 12 to have the power of discovery in all of this? You talk about the airing of dirty laundry and more importantly Fox gaining the knowledge of the inner workings of the SEC/CBS deal.

There are still many issue the need to be resolved before this could conceivably happen. So far nothing of real substance has happened. It just makes good press.

CBS is licking their chops to expand the SEC into Texas even moreso than it already is. Tortious interference claim threats will go nowhere. A&M and the SEC are doing their due diligence, hence the letter to Beebe - who demanded that they notify him of their plans. It's just posturing on his part because it's all he can do.

UT will try to scare up a fight because they have to. Their prayer is that OU doesn't get the itch as well. OU has national appeal beyond A&M or Texas, more national titles, more award winners. You can add all of A&M and UT's titles and awards together and they still don't add up to what OU has done historically.

If OU also says, "To hell with you all" then it's all over. They can put a band aid on the conference if A&M leaves and pretend Houston and SMU are good football replacements. But, OU's loss would be the mortal wound.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · August 26, 2011

You know, all this talk about the former SWC schools and their "history" just doesn't hold much water with me. Any conference like the B-12 should be looking for growth potential. Out of the three private schools that used to be in the old SWC, the one that has really grown(status-wise) is TCU. And as someone else has pointed out, they've positioned themselves in a very good conference already.

I see us as a better " growth down the road" option for the B-12 than any of the private schools that used to be in the old SWC.

And if not the B-12, then the MWC would be the next viable option.

Agreed. Especially having been to the stadiums at Iowa State, SMU, and our new one. We really, really need to win before A&M joins the SEC in 2013. We have to show a different culture. We have so much more upside than those schools and their facilities now.

And, I 164% agree on the MWC. Their profile will be much higher than the C-USA. I'd love a schedule with Fresno State. We've been in a conference with Boise State before. Las Vegas and Reno are good places to visit. Hawaii? Is that better than Monroe? I know it's better than Tulsa.

We must aim higher. Thank Rick for giving us a coaching staff with connections to the closest bigger conference - the Big 12. But, if not that miracle (both the Big 12 surviving and us joining it), go with the next better options. MWC is by far in a better position to become the next BCS AQ than all other non-AQs.

cdizzle86 · August 26, 2011

A&M is going to the SEC and they'll be okay.

UT may stay in a reconfigured Big12, create a new super conference, join the PAC12, or go independent - regardless, they'll be fine.

The loser in all this is college sports in the state of Texas. I like the Aggies and would rather watch them play Texas than LSU. I like the Horns and would rather watch them play A&M than Iowa State. Sad.

Sadder still, this probably leaves the Mean Green in that Hell Hole calted the Belt.

God bless Texas.

Great point that the only loser is sports in the state of Texas. Personally I think the Big 12 will survive just as the WAC is doing. It may eventually end up being a watered-down conference, but there are plenty of Texas/Oklahoma and regional school to replace it. I could definitely see a scenario where UNT ends up in the Big 12, but it won't have nearly the prestige it had. I think by the time we get an offer from the Big 12, the MWC will be a better choice.

It's sad to see one of the greatest football states in the country not having a stronger regional conference than the Big 12. The east has the SEC and the west has the Pac 10, and we will have the watered-down Big 12. We have UT and their greed to blame for all this.

pastorgrant · August 26, 2011

Baylor was terrible when they joined the Big XII, and didn't have anywhere near the upside that UNT has. I'm not saying UNT will get an invite but stranger things have happened and NT has been surprising us all recently:

Tony Mitchell and the rest of that ridiculously great BBall recruiting class

2 $20M donations and an 8M

two 4* transfers coming in for football next year, on top of a lot of other quality recruits

The student body voting to improve a fee hike to support athletics, surprised a lot of people

Hiring a top-quality, proven coaching staff top to bottom in Football

I can see the future and it's bright green. So bright in fact that I gotta wear shades.

Coach Mac too:

untjim1995 · August 26, 2011

Great point that the only loser is sports in the state of Texas. Personally I think the Big 12 will survive just as the WAC is doing. It may eventually end up being a watered-down conference, but there are plenty of Texas/Oklahoma and regional school to replace it. I could definitely see a scenario where UNT ends up in the Big 12, but it won't have nearly the prestige it had. I think by the time we get an offer from the Big 12, the MWC will be a better choice.

It's sad to see one of the greatest football states in the country not having a stronger regional conference than the Big 12. The east has the SEC and the west has the Pac 10, and we will have the watered-down Big 12. We have UT and their greed to blame for all this.

I agree with this completely. Texas's greed and need for power has killed the Big XII. The saddest part about this is that if the LHN was just made to be a simple deal instead of this extravagant, ESPN production that is a cash cow, there would still be the Big XII-II in place. The midwestern schools much prefer this current setup to waht the other options will be.

The saddest part to me in all of this is that we never made ourselves into an athletic program that any of these conferences would want to add when expansion/poaching became the big deal. Obviously, we hope that we can change that now, but if the Aggies leaving does cause the Big XII to fall apart, we just lost our MWC possibility. This scenario is actually terrible for anyone in CUSA who wants to move up, too, as the Big East and MWC will pick up the teams left behind from the Big XII, leaving UCF, ECU, and UH in CUSA for years to come.

The only thing that could somehow save teh Big XII is if they get clearnace from the NCAA to stay as an AQ league if they get enough teams to join it, assuming that Texas, Tech, OU, and OSU leave. I could see a new Big XII that would look like this:

ISU, KU, KSU, Mizzou, BYU, Colorado State, AFA, New Mexico, Memphis, Houston, TCU, and UTEP

Heavy on basketball stalwarts, but having regional football programs that have had big success in the past. It gets TV markets that would at least get a decent payout from some network and would have bowl ties with Houston, Memphis, DFW, El Paso and Albuquerque, not to mention cities that have hosted the old Big 12 championship game in Houston, Kansas City, and St. Louis. This league would still probably be on par with the Big East in football, but it would keep them AQ. This could be our ticket into the MWC, but a lot of the teams we would play would be far away (old Big West days). This also would create a few openings in CUSA, but the SMU/private school block would probably still be a deal-killer. All that said, a new Big XII would give us many more opportunites than if the conference just dies.

untjim1995 · August 26, 2011

Baylor was terrible when they joined the Big XII, and didn't have anywhere near the upside that UNT has. I'm not saying UNT will get an invite but stranger things have happened and NT has been surprising us all recently:

Tony Mitchell and the rest of that ridiculously great BBall recruiting class
2 $20M donations and an 8M
two 4* transfers coming in for football next year, on top of a lot of other quality recruits
The student body voting to improve a fee hike to support athletics, surprised a lot of people
Hiring a top-quality, proven coaching staff top to bottom in Football

I can see the future and it's bright green. So bright in fact that I gotta wear shades.

Coach Mac too:

Baylor was far from being terrible when they joined the Big XII. They had been to several bowl games in the years leading up to the SWC crashing down. It was TCU that was terrible, along with SMU and Rice, too.

Baylor will be in the MWC before this is all over--mark it down.

Green Oracle · August 26, 2011

We need a baseball team. We need to win football games.

Mean Green 93-98 · August 26, 2011

A&M doesn't need Texas, it's the other way around.

A&M has built their whole identity around their rivalry with Texas. Do you know the words of their fight song ("Aggie War Hymn")?

Good bye to texas university

So long to the orange and the white

Good luck to dear old Texas Aggies

They are the boys who show the real old fight

"the eyes of Texas are upon you"

That is the song they sing so well

So good bye to texas university

We're gonna beat you all to…

Chigaroogarem, Chigaroogarem

Rough, Tough, Real stuff, Texas A&M

Saw varsity's horns off

Short! A!

Varsity's horns are sawed off

Short! A!

That song's going to sound pretty dumb when they no longer even play Texas ("t.u."). What are the Aggies going to get riled up about anymore if they can't get riled up against "t.u."?

Also, the whole state doesn't buzz with the UT-A&M game. I can think of very few, outside of their graduates - who don't constitute "the whole state" - who even care.

You have made it clear from past posts that you don't think (or want to think) from a Texan perspective, and that you are surrounded in your neighborhood and workplace by transplants from other states. I know the UT-A&M rivalry is not what it was just in the 90's, mainly because UT has been light years better than A&M. But generally it's been the case that the whole state buzzes more around that game than any other game UT plays except the OU game, and no other game A&M plays is even close.

A&M is doing what's in its best interest - moving to the strongest football conference in the country, and leaving a crumbling conference behind.

That might have been a good move at one time, but if they can't compete in the strongest football conference in the country, is it really a good move? Do they want to be thought of in the same class as Vanderbilt (not academically speaking) and Kentucky (not basketball-y speaking)?

Only OU and Texas are stupid enough to believe the Big 12 is salvagable,

OU and Texas are going to be fine wherever they are. They have large enough followings that will continue regardless of who else is in their conference. If the Big 12 crumbles, either one could survive as an independent, and they would no doubt have options from other of the "Big 6" conferences.

pastorgrant · August 26, 2011

Baylor was far from being terrible when they joined the Big XII. They had been to several bowl games in the years leading up to the SWC crashing down. It was TCU that was terrible, along with SMU and Rice, too.

Baylor will be in the MWC before this is all over--mark it down.

You're right, should have looked it up. They were terrible by the time I started noticing them and I was going off of memory.

MeanGreenTexan · August 26, 2011

A&M has built their whole identity around their rivalry with Texas. Do you know the words of their fight song ("Aggie War Hymn")?

Good bye to texas university
So long to the orange and the white
Good luck to dear old Texas Aggies
They are the boys who show the real old fight
"the eyes of Texas are upon you"
That is the song they sing so well
So good bye to texas university
We're gonna beat you all to…
Chigaroogarem, Chigaroogarem
Rough, Tough, Real stuff, Texas A&M

Saw varsity's horns off
Saw varsity's horns off
Saw varsity's horns off
Short! A!

Varsity's horns are sawed off
Varsity's horns are sawed off
Varsity's horns are sawed off
Short! A!

That song's going to sound pretty dumb when they no longer even play Texas ("t.u."). What are the Aggies going to get riled up about anymore if they can't get riled up against "t.u."?

Greatest fight song of all time... _{if they played the Longhorns every game. But they don't, so it's the dumbest fight song of all time.}

SilverEagle · August 27, 2011

Greatest fight song of all time... _{if they played the Longhorns every game. But they don't, so it's the dumbest fight song of all time.}

Yeah, it's much better as an instrumental. Otherwise, it's just a pathetic penis envy song.

NT71 · August 27, 2011

My 2 cents is that yes eventually there will be 16 team conferences and one of them will not be named the Big 12-2. IMHO there will be a mixture of MWC, Big 12-2, some WAC, some C-USA & UNT into a large conferences. What that mixture will look like is anybody's guess. Because I do not have a good feel for where the Big 12-2 teams will go.

However, I do believe that given the next conference shuffle UNT will benefit. The key for UNT is have a winning FB program, Men (already do) & Women BB program, Baseball and Softball as the other programs have been strengthen with the hires (coaches) in the past 4 .

GMG

DeepGreen · August 27, 2011

Great point that the only loser is sports in the state of Texas. Personally I think the Big 12 will survive just as the WAC is doing. It may eventually end up being a watered-down conference, but there are plenty of Texas/Oklahoma and regional school to replace it. I could definitely see a scenario where UNT ends up in the Big 12, but it won't have nearly the prestige it had. I think by the time we get an offer from the Big 12, the MWC will be a better choice.

It's sad to see one of the greatest football states in the country not having a stronger regional conference than the Big 12. The east has the SEC and the west has the Pac 10, and we will have the watered-down Big 12. We have UT and their greed to blame for all this.

Watered down but still an auto-qualifying conference. I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Quoner · August 27, 2011

Yeah, it's much better as an instrumental. Otherwise, it's just a pathetic penis envy song.

Texas Fight, Texas Fight,

And it's goodbye to A&M.

Texas Fight, Texas Fight,

And we'll put over one more win.

Texas Fight, Texas Fight,

For it's Texas that we love best.

Give 'em Hell, Give 'em Hell, Go Horns Go,

And it's good-bye to all the rest!

Yea Orange! Yea White!

Yea Longhorns! Fight! Fight! Fight!

Texas Fight! Texas Fight,

Yea Texas Fight!

Texas Fight! Texas Fight,

Yea Texas Fight!

The Eyes of Texas are upon you,

All the livelong day.

The Eyes of Texas are upon you,

You cannot get away.

Texas Fight, Texas Fight,

For it's Texas that we love best.

Hail, Hail, The gang's all here,

And it's good-bye to all the rest!

They both suck.

TheTastyGreek · August 27, 2011

They both all suck.

Fixed.

Mean Green 93-98 · August 28, 2011

Here's an interesting article regarding possible new additions to the Big 12, from our old buddy Tobi Writes: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/813299-fever-dreams-will-am-leaving-transform-ut-into-the-best-conference-mate-ever

I don't see much (perhaps any) of this happening, but it provides some interesting food for thought.

forevereagle · August 28, 2011

Texas Fight, Texas Fight,
And it's goodbye to A&M.
Texas Fight, Texas Fight,
And we'll put over one more win.
Texas Fight, Texas Fight,
For it's Texas that we love best.
Give 'em Hell, Give 'em Hell, Go Horns Go,
And it's good-bye to all the rest!

Yea Orange! Yea White!
Yea Longhorns! Fight! Fight! Fight!
Texas Fight! Texas Fight,
Yea Texas Fight!
Texas Fight! Texas Fight,
Yea Texas Fight!

The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
You cannot get away.
Texas Fight, Texas Fight,
For it's Texas that we love best.
Hail, Hail, The gang's all here,
And it's good-bye to all the rest!

They both suck.

Slow down the UT fight song and tell me that isn't just Taps.

LongJim · August 28, 2011

Slow down the UT fight song and tell me that isn't just Taps.

It is Taps. In fact, it's known as Taps to the band. Interestingly, one of aTm's first songs (Farmer's Fight, IIRC) was played to Taps, as well. Texas Fight (or Texas Taps) was derived from it.

Edited August 28, 2011 by LongJim

DallasGreen · August 28, 2011

If A&M leaves to go the SEC, I believe it will eventually add 3 others too. I suspect Florida State, Clemson, and Virginia Tech would join the SEC with the Aggies.

Look for the Big Ten to then go after Missouri, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, and UConn to shore up a New England following.

Look for the ACC to poach the Big East hard--Louisville, Syracuse, and West Virginia all fit well in that league.

Look for the Big East to go all hoops as a conference.

I expect that the Pac-10 will get the Oklahoma schools and Kansas schools for lots of reasons.

I see the MWC adding Texas Tech and Baylor if this occurs.

CUSA would get back Cincy and South Florida. That would give them 14 teams--maybe they go to 16 and we get in that way!!Of course they could also take MUTS and another SBC/WAC school too.

The timing of this breakup, as usual, never helps our alma mater.

As long as SMU stays in C-USA, UNT has virtually no shot at being invited :growl:

DallasGreen · August 28, 2011

One Aggie's Opinion:

The concensus among the Aggie faithful is that the Big 12 is no longer a premiere conference. In the NCAA you are either growing or shrinking, and the Big 12 is shrinking. The downfall of the SWC began with Arkansas' departure and likewise, you don't lose a Nebraska and a Colorado in the same year and say that all is well.

Clearly, the SEC is the premiere sports league in football. Likewise, the Big 10 has an unbelievable history, academics, and prestige. Larry Scott has brought the Pac10/12 to the forefront with innovation, expansion, and leadership.

Beebe is the antithesis of a leader. He is a Longhorn puppet. The whole conference is a front for Texas. And the mass of members don't have clout to pursue other options. Baylor / Iowa State have no room to tell Texas to f off. Oklahoma seems to be hesitatnt to react. But Mizzou, A&M, and Tech have all had words / actions speaking against the LHN. Look, no real conference has unequal revenue sharing. But the Big 12 was set up to be the MLB and the Longhorns signed up to be the Yankees.

What's wrong with the Longhorn Network you ask? Well a better question would be why would you have a Longhorn Network instead of a BIg 12 network? I could give you a 1000 reasons why it is a bad idea. But to me it is like when free agency first appeared in baseball. It will now be a mad rush and the richer will only get richer. But just imagine you had to play a national telecast with announcers chosen by your opponent (contractually obliged to be approved by Texas or they are fired)? And imagine that Texas is the one that gets paid for games on that network, not the conference?

Now imagine that Texas could broadcast HS games. The counter that "we get all the recruits we want" does not make it right. I loved the argument that "hey I get all my recruits before September anyway. . . " from Mack Brown. Which is why they are planning to televise the state;s top JUNIOR in their first game. Coincidence? The president of the LHN said in an interview that they were indeed intentionally televising Texas recruits and they would go out of state to do so. It is a clear NCAA violation. You can't even put a recruit's name on a bigscreen but now you can pay his high school money, televise his game on your network, and have hand-picked announcers talk about what a great fit said recruit will be for Mack and how great the Longhorn staff is blah blah blah.

So that's a long way of saying the Aggies are tired of the Longhorns pushing their weight around (something Michigan does not do in teh Big 10 nor Alabama in the SEC). Thus, we want out. The Big 12 has become a joke and watching Beebe reminds me of Brownie leading the FEMA effort.

I could care less if we play Texas again. Like most Aggies, I realize the SEC is a whole level of competition higher, but it is worth it. Besides, road games at Tennessee and Georgi and Florida, etc >>> beat Ames, Manhattan, and Lubbock.

Now, would love the NEW SWC if that could happen
UNT
UH
Rice
SMU
TCU
Baylor
Southwest Texas
Tulsa
La Tech

or somesuch. Personally, I would love to see that.

SMU and UNT in the same league---not in any of our lifetimes. Talk about the ultimate aggie joke!!

DallasGreen · August 28, 2011

Austin American-Statesman's Bohls tweeted a couple of hours ago:

"Was told if A&M bolts to SEC, Big 12 could look at Notre Dame and Arkansas (no chance on either IMO), BYU, Air Force, Louisville or Houston

Put SMU in there as well--Huge politicing by Pres. Gerald Turner in today's DMNS. Money is no object on the Hilltop. :growl:

DallasGreen · August 28, 2011

They could have and should have replaced Nebraska and/or Colorado with the Frogs, but didn't do it when they had plenty of time last year. Had TCU even remotely had heard a whisper from the Big 12 a year ago they would have jumped on it.

Rick

Why then did TCU cut its own throat by saying if the Big 12 dissolved that they would block any move by Baylor to join the MWC? Doesn't bode well when you fire a shot at those you might want to align with.

DallasGreen · August 28, 2011

So your theory is that Alabama was just jerking its way through a National Championship Game, and it had nothing to do with strong play by the Texas defense and the offense finding ways to make plays to get them back into the game? Ha, okay. I imagine Nick Saban tends to agree with me on this one, but I'll not know until I ask him.

The "po' South"? What is that even supposed to mean? Texas has plenty (a majority) of recruits that don't come from wealth and privilege, so I'm not sure where you're going with that one.

Your entire premise on the demise of the University of Texas Football Program rides on UT being married to the LHN. If they split from it, every point made in this thread falls apart.

Colt McCoy taking his celebrated dive early in the National Championship Game just so he could get on to his NFL dream had a lot more to do with the game than anything else that happened. Gilbert comes in and immediately gifts two TDs to AL.Game over