Big 12-2/Minus 2 Conference done...how do we benefit

[Baby Arm!]

Thanks but. I read the contract because it was linked off of that site, just as I would have read it had it been linked on an OU site, a Houston, SMU or GMG.com site etc. Apparantly that "better sports buisiness blog" wasn't all that well versed in the buisiness of college football if they had to find out what was in the FOIA from an aggie fan blog, first? LOL!!!

But it doesn't matter who's site got ahold of it nor does it change the fact that tU will be the downfall of the Big minus 2.

Rick

Yeah but when it comes to contract language I put more stock in the opinion of a lawyer than some aggie blogger with an axe to grind.

[GTWT]

Why leave the belt? We're leap frogging conferences every off season if we stay put. By 2015 the belt will be an AQ. Trust me.

I need at least one good laugh every day. This is it. Thanks!

[LongJim]

Chip Brown is reporting that the Ags are indeed mulling over the SEC "solution".

According to him, there is nothing concrete happening, and nothing is expected to happen at least for another year, but aTm is apparently has concerns about ESPN's ability to fairly represent the B12 while also serving up the LHN.

[Baby Arm!]

Chip Brown is reporting that the Ags are indeed mulling over the SEC "solution".

According to him, there is nothing concrete happening, and nothing is expected to happen at least for another year, but aTm is apparently has concerns about ESPN's ability to fairly represent the B12 while also serving up the LHN.

It appears the Ags are just looking for reasons to be butthurt over the LHN and leave.

First, they had a problem with broadcasting high school games, so the LHN backed off of that until the NCAA rules,

Then they had a problem with a second football (conference) game on the LHN, so ESPIN and conference AD's nixed that too for a year,

Now its 'concerns about ESPN's ability'

[FirefightnRick]

To me it seems tU is the one pushing the buttons, hoping they force another defection by A&M or zeroU or whoever? Once that occurs they can raise their hands and claim "Well see, we did all we could do to keep this thing together and couldn't, so now we will go independent".

Which it appears to be where they want to go in the first place?

Rick

[UNTcrazy727]

OU academics are just as good/bad as Texas Tech. At least from an admissions perspective.

I dont like OU at all, but to say that Tech is equal to OU in academics is laughable. I don't know how their admission standard stack up, but you can't base a schools academics off it.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I think the whole conference is rebelling, not just A&M. A&M and OU, like Nebraska, just carry more clout than, say, Kansas State or Texas Tech. I think at this point only Baylor and Iowa State would be trying to keep the thing together. Everyone else has been offered outs by equal conferences.

The problem with Texas is they don't realize/care how few people actually give a crap about them. Notre Dame found out the same thing. NBC/Notre Dame never if ever has higher ratings than the ABC games.

The whole Notre Dame/Texas TV thing are just an exercise in mental masturbation thing for old, white men in their 70s and 80s who yearn for the days of all-white football teams. No one gives a crap about it now. There isn't just one game a week on anymore, so no one is forced to watch Notre Dame and Texas like back in the "good ol' days."

So, ESPN dumps money on Texas for no good reason, the same way NBC did for Notre Dame. The difference is, Notre Dame didn't then try to go steal other schools' television rights or get high school games of recruits they were recruiting televised weekley on NBC. To my knowledge, NBC has never televised a high school game.

Look, ESPN wants the break up of the Minus 2. Having Texas A&M adds even more Texas viewers to the already ridiculously successful SEC contract they have. Also, forcing OU over to the Pac-12 brings another time zone worth of viewers into that package.

I think Texas is being used by ESPN. And, I think they're both highly mistaken in how much interest their network will draw. You look at census data around Texas. People talk about the "Dallas market" and whatnot.

But, even when you look at the census data for Collin County from 2000, more than 50% of people living there were born outside of Texas. I haven't seen the 2010 census, but I'll bet it's 60% or more now.

The point is, not everyone who lives in the big media markets in Texas is from Texas. Therefore, they're not going to give a crap about the University of Texas - football, academics, or otherwise.

I've written this before when people stupidly ask, "Why would a Texas kid sign outside of Texas?" Well, because "Texas" Kid probably still has more family living in Louisiana, or Arkansas, or Oklahoma, or Missouri, or on and on and on. "Texas" Kid probably grew up cheering for the schools of those states.

ESPN and Texas are blind to this reality. OU people will tell you that the school's largest alumni group is the OU Club of Dallas. I mean, it's all good and well that Okies, Nebraskans, etc. have to come down here to find real jobs. But, believe me, their interest in Notre Dame and Texas is probably zero or less.

Then, add to that the fact that UT isn't the only school in Texas, and the loyalties are split even more. To be sure, the Texas' fan base may be the most outwardly arrogant and obnoxious...but, their numbers - even inside the state - aren't what they or ESPN think they are. Otherwise, they wouldn't be trying to hornswoggle Texas Tech of its television rights and viewers and trying to get rights of everyone's games against them.

Texas need a conference a whole hell of a lot more than any conference needs them.

Edited August 10, 2011 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[GrayEagle]

Texas will now become an independent. Having your own network should exclude them from the Big XII. You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's grossly unfair to the other conference members to having one member take the lion's share of the TV money. Notre Dame doesn't usurp conference money nor will BYU if they're able to get their own network.

What happens to Texas other sports? Do they put them in another conference as have Brigham Young and Notre Dame? Maybe the WAC could benefit from that.

We might still benefit from all of the rearranging because there will likely be seven or eight teams from the MAC, WAC, Sun Belt or independents that should advance to a higher profile conference. That would be if no conference went to more than 12 teams but 16 teams could command a higher dollar figure for most/each member even after distribution. That might make for fewer conferences but it's doubtful at this stage, that there would be fewer teams. We will soon have 124 FBS teams and I hope that it caps near that figure.

Edited August 10, 2011 by GrayEagle

[KRAM1]

Don't forget the big donation being announced on the 15 th. That may bring us baseball sooner rather than later.

Unfortunately...NO!

[KRAM1]

Its already been leaked that it is by the voertmans I thought.

All going to Academics.

The $8,000,000 from Paul Voertman has nothing to do with the "Big Announcement" being made on the 15th. The $8,000,000 is in addition to the amount being announced on the 15th.

It's great to see this amount of support for UNT. And, i believe we will all see "more to come" sooner rather than later. These first two may just be the start of a string of nice announcements. Don't forget the recent $800,000 grant to the Library...that ain't chicken feed either. Really good things are happening for UNT these days...BE GREEN...BE PROUD!

GO MEAN GREEN...WHY THE HECK NOT NORTH TEXAS INDEED!

[KRAM1]

Texas has ZERO interest in going independent. At least at this point according to my UT sources (these guys are VERY tied into the program and generally know what they are talking about when it comes to UT). Where the heck does this come from? Seems to me that lots of folks are crying foul over the new Texas network simply because they didn't think of it first or don't have the clout to pull it off. Unless Texas would agree to keep A&M on their annual schedule A&M isn't going anywhere without Texas no matter how much they scream and cry foul. The Ags are just raising a stink so they can take some of the shine off the new Texas network and try to make certain it doesn't have any recruiting advantages. If those TV networks were that great Notre Dame would have been back in the National Title hunt years ago.

If A&M could have pulled this off they would have...so would OU, Tech, OSU, Nebraska, Arkansas, etc., etc. Stuck pigs squeal. The Ags have been stuck. That's all. If you don't like it, set up your own network if you are big enough to do it. If not, shut up and be happy that someone else in your conference is helping keep the revenues up for all the members.

Look, I am not a "UT guy" at all, but all this whining and crying is ridiculous by all the poor step children...I haven't heard OU and OSU doing much public crying about it all or KState or KU or Baylor for that matter....

Now it's time to say....GO MEAN GREEN!

[Eagle1855]

It's like this:

Seems to me that lots of folks are crying foul over the new Texas network simply because they didn't think of it first or don't have the clout to pull it off.

and like that:

If those TV networks were that great Notre Dame would have been back in the National Title hunt years ago.

and like this:

If A&M could have pulled this off they would have...so would OU, Tech, OSU, Nebraska, Arkansas, etc., etc. Stuck pigs squeal. The Ags have been stuck. That's all. If you don't like it, set up your own network if you are big enough to do it.

and uh.. so just chill...til tha next episode.

[Eagle1855]

Also, this is AWESOME:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/66220275@N04/6030179560/lightbox/

Screencap courtesy of yours truly.

[GreenN'walinsVet]

Why does everyone keep referring to Notre Dame in this thread? ND's television contract with NBC is not even remotely comparable to the LHN! All NBC does for notre dame is televise their home games, that's it. No coaches show, no tv for other sports, he'll except for upcoming game promos you never even hear ND's name mentioned on NBC. The LHN will be 24-7 Longhorns. Do some of you realize that? To think it won't give them an advantage in recruiting is absolutely ignorant. Will it effect their football recruiting much? Maybe not since they already pick and choose who they want, but it will certainly help with all other sports. The chance to play almost all of your games( or at least home games) on tv for volleyball. Softball, baseball, basketball, etc will be a Hugh advantage no one else has.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

OU has protested the high school games, as have several coaches of the other schools. Tech shot down the offer of having their games put on the network.

Look, ESPN is driving this thing to its conclusion - the break up of the Minus 2 to speed up the Super Conference era.

Also, it's wholly laughable that A&M has to stay with Texas because they play them once a year. Texas A&M in the SEC has half a dozen more interesting games right off the bat. It's a great fit for the Ags.

OU will go Pac-12 like they almost did last year. It'll be more of a Big 8-type situation for them in a Pac-16 East: They'll dominate it (as they did the Big 8 and Big 12) and have maybe one divisional challenger a year before they and USC meet annually for that conference's championship game.

OSU, Tech, and either Baylor or Houston will ride OU's coattails, but will never be regularly competitive with them.

Look, OU already makes plenty of money. And, they go ahead and play nationally interesting games in their OOCs. Although Texas is loathe to disagree, without A&M and OU, they really don't play interesting games.

Rice, Wyoming, FAU last year...I guess 4-8 UCLA was interesting last year, but only because they ran them out of their own stadium. When A&M and OU split, that will be typical of what Longhorn fans will be paying to watch year after year on their channel.

When A&M splits, look for OU to come out and make an announcement. I half agree with Rick, that Texas and ESPN are probably waiting for more to jump like Nebraska and Colorado so they can say they have clean hands.

The problem for them is, people aren't blind. They don't see schools jumping out of the SEC, Pac-12, or Big Ten like is occurring in the Minus. Hell, even the ACC and Big East aren't seeing defections.

Where there's smoke there's fire. The Minus 2 structure is engulfed in smoke and flames. As with the SWC, the Minus 2 will crash because a drunken Texas insisted on taking the wheel. A&M and OU will eventually take the keys and leave Texas to find their way home without them.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Why does everyone keep referring to Notre Dame in this thread? ND's television contract with NBC is not even remotely comparable to the LHN! All NBC does for notre dame is televise their home games, that's it. No coaches show, no tv for other sports, he'll except for upcoming game promos you never even hear ND's name mentioned on NBC. The LHN will be 24-7 Longhorns. Do some of you realize that? To think it won't give them an advantage in recruiting is absolutely ignorant. Will it effect their football recruiting much? Maybe not since they already pick and choose who they want, but it will certainly help with all other sports. The chance to play almost all of your games( or at least home games) on tv for volleyball. Softball, baseball, basketball, etc will be a Hugh advantage no one else has.

Good point. In think people focus mainly on the football programs because they are the money makers.

But, you are right. The winners for Texas would be the other sports. They've already proven money can't guarantee putting a winning football team on the field.

[untjim1995]

If A&M leaves to go the SEC, I believe it will eventually add 3 others too. I suspect Florida State, Clemson, and Virginia Tech would join the SEC with the Aggies.

Look for the Big Ten to then go after Missouri, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, and UConn to shore up a New England following.

Look for the ACC to poach the Big East hard--Louisville, Syracuse, and West Virginia all fit well in that league.

Look for the Big East to go all hoops as a conference.

I expect that the Pac-10 will get the Oklahoma schools and Kansas schools for lots of reasons.

I see the MWC adding Texas Tech and Baylor if this occurs.

CUSA would get back Cincy and South Florida. That would give them 14 teams--maybe they go to 16 and we get in that way!!Of course they could also take MUTS and another SBC/WAC school too.

The timing of this breakup, as usual, never helps our alma mater.

[Objective Aggie]

One Aggie's Opinion:

The concensus among the Aggie faithful is that the Big 12 is no longer a premiere conference. In the NCAA you are either growing or shrinking, and the Big 12 is shrinking. The downfall of the SWC began with Arkansas' departure and likewise, you don't lose a Nebraska and a Colorado in the same year and say that all is well.

Clearly, the SEC is the premiere sports league in football. Likewise, the Big 10 has an unbelievable history, academics, and prestige. Larry Scott has brought the Pac10/12 to the forefront with innovation, expansion, and leadership.

Beebe is the antithesis of a leader. He is a Longhorn puppet. The whole conference is a front for Texas. And the mass of members don't have clout to pursue other options. Baylor / Iowa State have no room to tell Texas to f off. Oklahoma seems to be hesitatnt to react. But Mizzou, A&M, and Tech have all had words / actions speaking against the LHN. Look, no real conference has unequal revenue sharing. But the Big 12 was set up to be the MLB and the Longhorns signed up to be the Yankees.

What's wrong with the Longhorn Network you ask? Well a better question would be why would you have a Longhorn Network instead of a BIg 12 network? I could give you a 1000 reasons why it is a bad idea. But to me it is like when free agency first appeared in baseball. It will now be a mad rush and the richer will only get richer. But just imagine you had to play a national telecast with announcers chosen by your opponent (contractually obliged to be approved by Texas or they are fired)? And imagine that Texas is the one that gets paid for games on that network, not the conference?

Now imagine that Texas could broadcast HS games. The counter that "we get all the recruits we want" does not make it right. I loved the argument that "hey I get all my recruits before September anyway. . . " from Mack Brown. Which is why they are planning to televise the state;s top JUNIOR in their first game. Coincidence? The president of the LHN said in an interview that they were indeed intentionally televising Texas recruits and they would go out of state to do so. It is a clear NCAA violation. You can't even put a recruit's name on a bigscreen but now you can pay his high school money, televise his game on your network, and have hand-picked announcers talk about what a great fit said recruit will be for Mack and how great the Longhorn staff is blah blah blah.

So that's a long way of saying the Aggies are tired of the Longhorns pushing their weight around (something Michigan does not do in teh Big 10 nor Alabama in the SEC). Thus, we want out. The Big 12 has become a joke and watching Beebe reminds me of Brownie leading the FEMA effort.

I could care less if we play Texas again. Like most Aggies, I realize the SEC is a whole level of competition higher, but it is worth it. Besides, road games at Tennessee and Georgi and Florida, etc >>> beat Ames, Manhattan, and Lubbock.

Now, would love the NEW SWC if that could happen

UNT

UH

Rice

SMU

TCU

Baylor

Southwest Texas

Tulsa

La Tech

or somesuch. Personally, I would love to see that.

[UNT90]

You had me until you included TCU in your new SWC.

Thought I'd finally found an aggie with some brain activity.

[Objective Aggie]

AGreed, TCU is a reach. But they don't belong in the Big East.

[UNT90]

AGreed, TCU is a reach. But they don't belong in the Big East.

Now that's a response I would completely expect.

They are playing big boy football now with big boy money. I know the current football "elite" do not look favorably upon the inclusion of TCU into the club, but they damn sure earned their way there.

Unless, you meant it just didn't make sense geographically. In that case. how would you feel about them being your travel partner in the SEC?

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

I think that once you have Super Conferences, you draw closer to a playoff.

Think of it. With 16 team conferences, the championship games would the the eliminator/qualifier for the playoff. The Pac-16 idea looks really good with USC in the West and potentially OU in the East.

The SEC is already producing champions out of its title game.

The Big 10 Leaders division will usually produce Ohio State, Penn State, or Wisconsin versus legends winners Nebraska, Michigan, or Iowa...any of those matches would be good.

Texas will sit on the outside like Notre Dame and have some clause drawn up for it...unless the Big Ten takes pity on them and asks them both into the conference. I just don't see them coexisting with all of their TV wienies as hard as they are.

Besides, the Big Ten already has an Ego in blowhard Jim Delaney. As ridiculous as Notre Dame and Texas are in how they view themselves, no one has a bigger ego than Delaney. He's Notre Dame and Texas on steroids and acid.

There will be some throw in rule for the outsider conference like the BCS has now - basically, go undefeated for two straight seasons and we'll thrown your school a bone.

Edited August 10, 2011 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Got5onIt]

Wasn't ESPN the reason why the Big12 didn't dissolve??? I thought ESPN would lose too much TV revenue to allow it to split? So if that was the case, why would they want to push for the break up?

[MeanMag]

Texas has ZERO interest in going independent. At least at this point according to my UT sources (these guys are VERY tied into the program and generally know what they are talking about when it comes to UT). Where the heck does this come from? Seems to me that lots of folks are crying foul over the new Texas network simply because they didn't think of it first or don't have the clout to pull it off. Unless Texas would agree to keep A&M on their annual schedule A&M isn't going anywhere without Texas no matter how much they scream and cry foul. The Ags are just raising a stink so they can take some of the shine off the new Texas network and try to make certain it doesn't have any recruiting advantages. If those TV networks were that great Notre Dame would have been back in the National Title hunt years ago.

If A&M could have pulled this off they would have...so would OU, Tech, OSU, Nebraska, Arkansas, etc., etc. Stuck pigs squeal. The Ags have been stuck. That's all. If you don't like it, set up your own network if you are big enough to do it. If not, shut up and be happy that someone else in your conference is helping keep the revenues up for all the members.

Look, I am not a "UT guy" at all, but all this whining and crying is ridiculous by all the poor step children...I haven't heard OU and OSU doing much public crying about it all or KState or KU or Baylor for that matter....

Now it's time to say....GO MEAN GREEN!

You sound like a "UT guy" in your post. When ESPN and TLN try to tell other schools where to play and when to play it's gone a little too far. I have no problem with any school doing as much as they can to try not to put money into the others' pocket.

[MeanMag]

One Aggie's Opinion:

The concensus among the Aggie faithful is that the Big 12 is no longer a premiere conference. In the NCAA you are either growing or shrinking, and the Big 12 is shrinking. The downfall of the SWC began with Arkansas' departure and likewise, you don't lose a Nebraska and a Colorado in the same year and say that all is well.

Clearly, the SEC is the premiere sports league in football. Likewise, the Big 10 has an unbelievable history, academics, and prestige. Larry Scott has brought the Pac10/12 to the forefront with innovation, expansion, and leadership.

Beebe is the antithesis of a leader. He is a Longhorn puppet. The whole conference is a front for Texas. And the mass of members don't have clout to pursue other options. Baylor / Iowa State have no room to tell Texas to f off. Oklahoma seems to be hesitatnt to react. But Mizzou, A&M, and Tech have all had words / actions speaking against the LHN. Look, no real conference has unequal revenue sharing. But the Big 12 was set up to be the MLB and the Longhorns signed up to be the Yankees.

What's wrong with the Longhorn Network you ask? Well a better question would be why would you have a Longhorn Network instead of a BIg 12 network? I could give you a 1000 reasons why it is a bad idea. But to me it is like when free agency first appeared in baseball. It will now be a mad rush and the richer will only get richer. But just imagine you had to play a national telecast with announcers chosen by your opponent (contractually obliged to be approved by Texas or they are fired)? And imagine that Texas is the one that gets paid for games on that network, not the conference?

Now imagine that Texas could broadcast HS games. The counter that "we get all the recruits we want" does not make it right. I loved the argument that "hey I get all my recruits before September anyway. . . " from Mack Brown. Which is why they are planning to televise the state;s top JUNIOR in their first game. Coincidence? The president of the LHN said in an interview that they were indeed intentionally televising Texas recruits and they would go out of state to do so. It is a clear NCAA violation. You can't even put a recruit's name on a bigscreen but now you can pay his high school money, televise his game on your network, and have hand-picked announcers talk about what a great fit said recruit will be for Mack and how great the Longhorn staff is blah blah blah.

So that's a long way of saying the Aggies are tired of the Longhorns pushing their weight around (something Michigan does not do in teh Big 10 nor Alabama in the SEC). Thus, we want out. The Big 12 has become a joke and watching Beebe reminds me of Brownie leading the FEMA effort.

I could care less if we play Texas again. Like most Aggies, I realize the SEC is a whole level of competition higher, but it is worth it. Besides, road games at Tennessee and Georgi and Florida, etc >>> beat Ames, Manhattan, and Lubbock.

Now, would love the NEW SWC if that could happen

UNT

UH

Rice

SMU

TCU

Baylor

Southwest Texas

Tulsa

La Tech

or somesuch. Personally, I would love to see that.

I think you have to put OU in the same boat as A&M, although they have enough tradition and support to not have to be all that quick to react.. Any conference in the country would love to make room for OU if they decided to leave the BigXII-II. To the somewhat same to lesser extent A&M and Kansas. To think that a conference can exist without shares being equal is incredibly stupid and shortsighted. It's a wonder amateur football is even possible with the twisted bowl committees and leadership like that of Texas and Ohio State.