Sun Belt Coaches Weigh In On Playoff

Harry · July 22, 2011

"Count MTSU's Rick Stockstill, Troy's Larry Blakeney, Arkansas State's Hugh Freeze and North Texas' Dan McCarney as opponents to most, or all, playoff proposals."

http://www.tennessean.com/article/D4/20110716/BLUERAIDERS01/107160318/Sun-Belt-coaches-ponder-playoff?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CSports%7Cp

untjim1995 · July 22, 2011

"Count MTSU's Rick Stockstill, Troy's Larry Blakeney, Arkansas State's Hugh Freeze and North Texas' Dan McCarney as opponents to most, or all, playoff proposals."

http://www.tennessean.com/article/D4/20110716/BLUERAIDERS01/107160318/Sun-Belt-coaches-ponder-playoff?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CSports%7Cp

I think that the current setup maximizes the best for a conference like the SBC. We aren't going to send a team (most likely) to a BCS game, but if another non-AQ conference does, we get to share in that money, all while we get the chance to play in a bowl game. This gives the coaches more time to prepare their teams for both the game and the upcoming season. Old school coaches that are not at power programs are almost always against a playoff. They have a chance to end the season with a win, keep the alums happy, and get more coaching time. Even Gary Patterson at TCU is completely against a playoff. Maybe that will change, but it is not unusual at all right now.

NorthTexan95 · July 22, 2011

"To me, every Saturday in college football, starting with Week One, is a playoff game. They all mean something." — MTSU coach Rick Stockstill / AP photo

Not if you're in the Sun Belt ... then every game is meaningless because you've got no shot at a higher bowl. If we had a 16 or 32 team playoff then every conference champion could be invited along with some at larges. Then every team could begin the season knowing they could win the national championship no matter how unlikely it would be.

UNTflyer · July 22, 2011

In college basketball, if you win every game starting from your conference tournament opening round, you will be the national champion.

No such scenario exists in college football. The greatest competition in college athletics determines its champion based on opinion polls.

UNTflyer · July 22, 2011

Even Gary Patterson at TCU is completely against a playoff.

Yeah, well... he got what he wanted, didn't he? An invite to an AQ BCS conference, so what does he have to worry about now?

MeanMag · July 22, 2011

Basketball has a large enough sample size to do the playoff seeding. I don't know if colleges play enough games against outside competition to accurately seed a playoff system of only 16 teams. We'd have about 50 disappointed "bubble teams".

Put me down as a fan of the +1 game. It could mean money and a return to prominence for the cotton bowl and a true national champion.

MeanMag · July 22, 2011

Not if you're in the Sun Belt ... then every game is meaningless because you've got no shot at a higher bowl. If we had a 16 or 32 team playoff then every conference champion could be invited along with some at larges. Then every team could begin the season knowing they could win the national championship no matter how unlikely it would be.

It's not proven that if a team goes undefeated in the Sun Belt how high they'd go, largely because it hasn't happened. To be quite honest if there were a 16 or 32 team playoff, if it weren't for an autobid, you'd have a tough time convincing me that a Sun Belt team deserved to be there. We'd have the same problems we do now with the NCAA tourney with Sun Belt teams having to play the top 5% of teams in the playoff system. They'd always be playing the #1 or #2 teams in the nation.

Boise and TCU seemed to have success going to a higher bowl, even if they didn't play for the national championship. A +1 would have solved the majority of the 2 undefeated teams at the end of the season.

UNT90 · July 22, 2011

A playoff system would even out the competition level in college football (as long as every conference champion was included), just as it has in college basketball. You think Butler ever gets national recognition (and a huge, huge recruiting boost) that they got after the 2010 run if there was a "bowl system" in college basketball? Butler as programs like them (See: UNT) would be afterthoughts to recruits who would not even look their way (you know, kinda like college football recruiting is now).

Does anyone really thing Chris Jones, Jordan Williams, Forrest Robinson, or even Tony Mitchell (transcript problems and all) would be at UNT if there wasn't a chance for them to compete in the tournament against the best of the best? Hell no, they wouldn't.

Think about the prospect of being able to sell a 4 star football recruit on being able to play sooner and still have the chance to compete against the big boys of college football in a playoff: "Son, with recruits like you, we know we can win OUR conference. Now, if you go play at UT, you may start your senior year, and your path to the tournament will be a lot more difficult. Come and play for us. We will get to that tournament, and anything can happen once we are there." Think if it is a 16 team tourney like many have proposed. That means 4 wins to the title. You can sell a recruit with that.

The reason the basketball tourney keeps getting expanded is because 1) It's a huge money maker for EVERYONE involved, and 2) even with expansion, the competiton has not suffered.

Do I think that this would be immediate in football? No. It would take at least 5 years for the playing field to start to equal out. Would I be excited about a 1st round playoff game against OU in Norman? Hell ya!!! Why? Because we will be a conference champion and anything can happen. How fun would that pregame be?

This is why the BCS schools don't want a playoff. THey don't want to share the wealth and are terrified of lossing the huge competitive and monetary advantage that they now have over the non-BCS schools. Why do coaches like Coach Mac not want it? 2 reasons: 1) first and foremost, self preservation. They see the possibility of ending the season with a 52-0 loss after winning the conference championship instead of a bowl win in the Who-Gives-A-Crap Toilet Bowl and fear that this will damage their standing at their current job and their prospects for a future job. 2) People don't like change, and they are comfortable in this system and fear the unknown.

A 16 team playoff including all conference champions would level the field in college football. Problem is, none of the big boys want that to happen.

Edited July 22, 2011 by UNT90

UNT90 · July 22, 2011

We'd have the same problems we do now with the NCAA tourney with Sun Belt teams having to play the top 5% of teams in the playoff system. They'd always be playing the #1 or #2 teams in the nation.

Let me remind you that WKU made the sweet 16 and advanced to the round of 32 only 4 short years ago.

Don't confuse UNT history with Sun Belt history.

BeanCounterGrad'03 · July 22, 2011

In college basketball, if you win every game starting from your conference tournament opening round, you will be the national champion.

No such scenario exists in college football. The greatest competition in college athletics determines its champion based on opinion polls.

And its a damn shame

MeanMag · July 22, 2011

Let me remind you that WKU made the sweet 16 and advanced to the round of 32 only 4 short years ago.

Don't confuse UNT history with Sun Belt history.

I'm well aware that not too long ago we had 2 teams in the NCAA and WKU was in the sweet 16. All SunBelt Football talent is a long way off from competing at that level. I think there are inherent differences in the games of basketball and football that make a playoff system not impossible, but particularly challenging for football.

I think the main thing you want is for non-autobid conferences to have autobids to the BCS party. There are 2 division 1 leagues. FCS and FBS. One has a playoff system, one has a bowl system. Is the Bowl system a sham, corrupt, a cartel, and outdated? Yes. Can we do something about it? Yes, but I don't think the answer is to get rid of bowls. It's to make sure that there is inclusion and that it can crown an evident national champion. A +1 system and making sure the money is distributed to all institutions and not the bowl committees are the 2 most important things to me as a fan.

4 games as a fan of UNT (lets imagine they won a 16 seed in that playoff system) is brutal. I want to make every game I possibly can. Which one do I go to? The first one, which has us playing Florida at the swamp? or do I hold out until we make the national championship or the next round? God knows I couldn't afford to go to all 4 and not many other fans could either.

The solution cannot add games to the season. A +1 would add 1 game for all the marbles. The likelihood of any team riding a streak for 4 games where they play out of their minds is beyond improbable. In basketball all it takes is 1 or 2 guys to play out of their minds. And it has the great equalizer; the 3 point shot.

UNT90 · July 22, 2011

I'm well aware that not too long ago we had 2 teams in the NCAA and WKU was in the sweet 16. All SunBelt Football talent is a long way off from competing at that level. I think there are inherent differences in the games of basketball and football that make a playoff system not impossible, but particularly challenging for football.

I think the main thing you want is for non-autobid conferences to have autobids to the BCS party. There are 2 division 1 leagues. FCS and FBS. One has a playoff system, one has a bowl system. Is the Bowl system a sham, corrupt, a cartel, and outdated? Yes. Can we do something about it? Yes, but I don't think the answer is to get rid of bowls. It's to make sure that there is inclusion and that it can crown an evident national champion. A +1 system and making sure the money is distributed to all institutions and not the bowl committees are the 2 most important things to me as a fan.

4 games as a fan of UNT (lets imagine they won a 16 seed in that playoff system) is brutal. I want to make every game I possibly can. Which one do I go to? The first one, which has us playing Florida at the swamp? or do I hold out until we make the national championship or the next round? God knows I couldn't afford to go to all 4 and not many other fans could either.

The solution cannot add games to the season. A +1 would add 1 game for all the marbles. The likelihood of any team riding a streak for 4 games where they play out of their minds is beyond improbable. In basketball all it takes is 1 or 2 guys to play out of their minds. And it has the great equalizer; the 3 point shot.

Go to just one of the playoff games, watch the others on TV. You will have a better experience than a who gives a crap bowl game, plus you will get to see your team continue their march on national TV (that's right, national TV. With only 8 games in the first round of a 16 team playoff format, everyone gets national TV exposure).

Is this really your gripe?

The main thing I want is an equal playing field for every FBS school, like there currently is in basketball (well, as equal as possible). As to the highlighted portion above, that is exactly why you need a playoff system, to equal out all those advantages the big boys have right now that make competition almost impossible. That is exactly what a plan like this would change. It wouldn't happen overnight, but it would happen.

EDIT: Equal may be a bad word. I want the same opportunities that are available for the big boys to be available for the UNT's of the world. What the school chooses to do with that opportunity is another story.

Edited July 22, 2011 by UNT90

golfingomez · July 22, 2011

yeah... a playoff would be great, until it gets expanded... then expanded... and then the Sunbelt Champ has to play the WAC Champ to get that 32nd seed... sooo instead of travelling to a big stadium with a big time program, we play at a neutral site against a boring opponent... that will just drive recruits our way in droves...

I agree with Meanmag... playoffs are much more difficult for football than they are for basketball...unless you restructured the FBS entirely it would be very hard to do

Edited July 22, 2011 by golfingomez

UNT90 · July 22, 2011

yeah... a playoff would be great, until it gets expanded... then expanded... and then the Sunbelt Champ has to play the WAC Champ to get that 32nd seed... sooo instead of travelling to a big stadium with a big time program, we play at a neutral site against a boring opponent... that will just drive recruits our way in droves...

I agree with Meanmag... playoffs are much more difficult for football than they are for basketball...unless you restructured the FBS entirely it would be very hard to do

That's the beauty about a football playoff system. Anything beyond 4 additional games to a 12 game season would be very hard to do. Maybe they expand to 32, but that would be the limit. THat's still 16 games in the first round, all on national TV

golfingomez · July 22, 2011

don't worry even if it was 16 teams only it would still have a play-in game for the lower conferences

i think the +1 concept is the best... but only if there is some contract that states it can never get expand beyond that

all the bowl games are on 'national tv' too, though... so not really seeing a huge leap here

TIgreen01 · July 22, 2011

Go to just one of the playoff games, watch the others on TV. You will have a better experience than a who gives a crap bowl game, plus you will get to see your team continue their march on national TV (that's right, national TV. With only 8 games in the first round of a 16 team playoff format, everyone gets national TV exposure).

This would not be true if the NCAA would get rid of the bowl games in Detroit, Boise, and similar cold weather cities in the dead of winter. Bowl games are great, except the ones in cities that suck. Remove or move those games and you can't make this claim. There's no way in HELL that I'd have a better time watching a game on TV, than travelling to a well done bowl game.

The likelyhood of the smaller schools being included in any playoff that the Big Boys sign off on is slim to none.

You're letting the ABC/ESPNs of the world pull your jock on this thing. We've reached the saturation point with non-stop, 24x7x365, sports commentary that most of these idiots just try to invent stuff to discuss. It'll eventually turn the tide of public opinion so strong that the school presidents have no choice BUT to go to a playoff. The thing is, nobody really wants it but the shock jocks. The Big Boys are scared to death of it. The little guys don't trust it. The TV rights would be astronomical and I bet the TV execs are drooling over the prospect of it, but only one broadcast company would end up winning the rights to it. The rest would be shut out of post season college football.

Edited July 22, 2011 by TIgreen01

UNT90 · July 22, 2011

There's no way in HELL that I'd have a better time watching a game on TV, than travelling to a well done bowl game.

The likelyhood of the smaller schools being included in any playoff that the Big Boys sign off on is slim to none.

You're letting the ABC/ESPNs of the world pull your jock on this thing. We've reached the saturation point with non-stop, 24x7x365, sports commentary that most of these idiots just try to invent stuff to discuss. It'll eventually turn the tide of public opinion so strong that the school presidents have no choice BUT to go to a playoff. The thing is, nobody really wants it but the shock jocks. The Big Boys are scared to death of it. The little guys don't trust it. The TV rights would be astronomical and I bet the TV execs are drooling over the prospect of it, but only one broadcast company would end up winning the rights to it. The rest would be shut out of post season college football.

Nope. The first round could be split between networks. ANd it's not just the sshock jocks that want it, it is half the coaches in the Sun Belt (I would bet the younger ones), and probably at least half the coaches in all non-auto qualifier conferences.

As to the bolded, you would have the opportunity to do BOTH if your school advanced. Why is that so hard to understand. You attend one game, then watch the others on TV. It's like a Christmas bonus of UNT football (theoretically).

Edited July 22, 2011 by UNT90

greenminer · July 23, 2011

In college basketball, if you win every game starting from your conference tournament opening round, you will be the national champion.

No such scenario exists in college football. The greatest competition in college athletics determines its champion based on opinion polls.

Not that I disagree with you, but bball is not totally devoid of opinion polls. When all is said and done and, most likely, no one goes undefeated...someone gets left out. Utah State comes to mind.

Regardless of championship formats and polls, someone will always feel left out. And I don't think that should be college football's priority right now. My biggest beef is the money distribution, but that's a topic for another thread/day.

MeanMag · July 23, 2011

GreenMiner hit the nail on the head with money distribution. It's not the bowl system that's flawed, it's the cronies running/ruining it. Even the largest schools in the nation are getting taken to the cleaners by the bowl committees.

Until the NCAA gets off of their asses and decides to be a regulating body of amateur sports, bowl committees will continue on with fleecing these institutions in the bowl season, and the top institutions will continue to set the rules. The NCAA does not own the BCS formula, and college football post season. They own the basketball post season. Let's start there.

Conferences: Run by very rich individuals in commissioners and institution presidents. Why doesn't the NCAA put the schools into conferences? Why doesn't the NCAA set the OOC, Regular season and bowl schedules? They at least have a committee that matches up the post season in basketball. And they do it well... There's something I think we can all agree is possible to apply to football. Are they're afraid of UT, Notre Dame, USC, Ohio State, Florida etc. taking their ball and going to play in a league of their own affiliation?

Without mentioning all the above changes, recommending a playoff system seems like sweeping the real problems under the rug to me.

Edited July 23, 2011 by MeanMag