Does Big East Hold Key To WAC Expansion

[LongJim]

"My precious child, I love the Mean Green more than Iowa and that crap hole SMU and will never leave you, never, ever, during your trials and testings. When you saw only one set of footprints, It was then that I carried you."

[Legend500]

nmsu isn't interested in moving east for same reason we don't want to go west, plus they have major financial problems simulat to ulm.

I think offering NMSU a division with TxSt, UNT, ASU, ULL & ULM would go a long way towards soothing their concerns. That, and the fact that NMSU wouldn't have to travel to Ruston anymore - a town which makes Las Cruces look like Shangri-La.

Other than CUSA's private schools, particularly Rice, I see North Texas as at least an equal to any of their state schools. Plus, I suspect we have more top rated programs than any of them and not just including music.

I, for one, am not interested in sharing a conference with a bunch of one-trick non-full-research-university Univ.-of-Phoenix-before-the-internet-existed liberal arts colleges. Of course, excepting Rice and Baylor, which actually conduct research beyond determining the fastest way to get to Kuby's before they close.

[untjim1995]

assume that big east adds cfu. both ecu and marshall have been pushing for cusa schools closer to them.neither unt nor latech fit the bill. we are too close to smu, and latech is too close to ? [it has no real market].they have 4 texas schools already, and the rest of the conference probably is not so hot on a 5th. i don't know who would make the csua cut, but i am afraid who won't. if we look down the road, and cusa door is forever closed on us and latech, then the wac might look a little better. bigger question is whetehr nmsu,sjsu,and idaho are going to stay 1a? utah state probably will, but the wac might look a lot different in a few years.

I agree with you on most of this, wardly. If the Big East does extend to 12 FBS teams, I would see the conference adding UCF, ECU, and Houston. This gives the BE protection for when the Big Ten/ACC decides to grow bigger and poach teams from their conference (probably will lose some combo of Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, and UConn). If CUSA saw these losses, that would leave them with 9 teams. It would seem to me that if they were to expand, CUSA would want look at MTSU for the Nashville TV market and one of the F_Us for the Miami TV market, which gets them back to 11 teams. Basically, your choices for the last spot would involve the remaining SBC schools or Eastern WAC schools.

Obviously, we add TV sets from the DFW market standpoint, but we have the SMU issue, too. It seems that we would make sense to the rest of CUSA in that we would be a great replacement for Houston. However, as we have seen with the Florida startups, if this is about TV markets, the San Antonio market could be the tipping point on the scale--assuming UTSA gets off to a big start in the WAC. This would give CUSA the ability to go and say that we have schools in these media markets: Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Miami, Memphis, El Paso, Tulsa, Birmingham, Nashville, and San Antonio. That COULD be the biggest hurdle we face. If UTSA falls flat on its face, then they are probably not even mentioned in this, but IMO, this is our stiffest competition for a CUSA spot under these circumstances. If we get left behind in the SBC, that would leave us still playing F_U, WKU, USA, ULL, ULM, Arky State, and Troy, plus whoever we invite to join the league.

All this said, I still love the idea of us playing in the MWC. We would be the only Texas school in the league, but we would get to play Boise, Fresno, Nevada, AFA, etc..every week. That is a league that would be a lot of fun to watch and has national respect at a much higher level than CUSA has ever had. I just love the idea of having a top ten ranked Boise State come to the new stadium or getting a top 25 AFA here for a conference game. That would be huge for North Texas!!

[foutsrouts]

I agree with you on most of this, wardly. If the Big East does extend to 12 FBS teams, I would see the conference adding UCF, ECU, and Houston. This gives the BE protection for when the Big Ten/ACC decides to grow bigger and poach teams from their conference (probably will lose some combo of Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, and UConn). If CUSA saw these losses, that would leave them with 9 teams. It would seem to me that if they were to expand, CUSA would want look at MTSU for the Nashville TV market and one of the F_Us for the Miami TV market, which gets them back to 11 teams. Basically, your choices for the last spot would involve the remaining SBC schools or Eastern WAC schools.

Obviously, we add TV sets from the DFW market standpoint, but we have the SMU issue, too. It seems that we would make sense to the rest of CUSA in that we would be a great replacement for Houston. However, as we have seen with the Florida startups, if this is about TV markets, the San Antonio market could be the tipping point on the scale--assuming UTSA gets off to a big start in the WAC. This would give CUSA the ability to go and say that we have schools in these media markets: Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, Miami, Memphis, El Paso, Tulsa, Birmingham, Nashville, and San Antonio. That COULD be the biggest hurdle we face. If UTSA falls flat on its face, then they are probably not even mentioned in this, but IMO, this is our stiffest competition for a CUSA spot under these circumstances. If we get left behind in the SBC, that would leave us still playing F_U, WKU, USA, ULL, ULM, Arky State, and Troy, plus whoever we invite to join the league.

All this said, I still love the idea of us playing in the MWC. We would be the only Texas school in the league, but we would get to play Boise, Fresno, Nevada, AFA, etc..every week. That is a league that would be a lot of fun to watch and has national respect at a much higher level than CUSA has ever had. I just love the idea of having a top ten ranked Boise State come to the new stadium or getting a top 25 AFA here for a conference game. That would be huge for North Texas!!

I like the MWC as well. The recent revival of Houston and smu (in FB) has helped USA a bit, but for the most part I'm just really not all that impressed with that conference. Guess we need to start kicking some butt in The Belt before any realignment talk means squat.

[tylermeangreen]

Other than CUSA's private schools, particularly Rice, I see North Texas as at least an equal to any of their state schools. Plus, I suspect we have more top rated programs than any of them and not just including music.

The Public Administration Program in particular.........

[FirefightnRick]

Personally I think we are a perfect replacement for Colorado and Nebraska in the Big 12. I know most will disagree with me, but NT is not that tiny commuter school some have thought of us to be in the past. We are a good size school that is growing bigger and stronger every year with a massive alumni base. We finally have our facilities in place and we offer the best location and market there ever could be.

Rick

Edited July 20, 2011 by FirefightnRick

[untjim1995]

Personally I think we are a perfect replacement for Colorado and Nebraska in the Big 12. I know most will disagree with me, but NT is not that tiny commuter school some have thought of us to be in the past. We are a good size school that is growing bigger and stronger every year with a massive alumni base. We finally have our facilities in place and we offer the best location and market there ever could be.

Rick

I agree with this idea, but the other schools in the league would take UH in a second if one of the other Texas schools ever bolts. As it stands now, that league needs TV sets. I believe completely that BYU will be in this league at some point in the future, as well as another team in the east, like Louisville or Memphis. This is all contingent on the rest of that league actually staying together, which seems to decrease in odds by the week. I still think that they should get BYU and go after Notre Dame. They would have the three largest religious schools together, the Big XII wouldn't ask for a penny from ND for their NBC contract, and it would open up Notre Dame recruiting even more to Texas. ND is consistent in staying away from the Big Ten and the Big East for football because they would have to share their funds. Down here, Texas, A&M, and OU, and to a certain degree, KU and OSU, really aren't that concerned about sharing revenues. But they sure would love the extra TV exposure that a visit to South Bend on NBC for a nationally televised game would bring.

[Quoner]

Good thoughts, but why is everyone assuming the Big 12 holds? It seems like just a matter of time before Texas goes independent (as seen by the recent TV exclusive conference game broadcast announcement) and TAMU and possibly OU bolt for the SEC. Without them, what keeps that conference from being picked off and absorbed into super conferences?

[golfingomez]

Good thoughts, but why is everyone assuming the Big 12 holds? It seems like just a matter of time before Texas goes independent (as seen by the recent TV exclusive conference game broadcast announcement) and TAMU and possibly OU bolt for the SEC. Without them, what keeps that conference from being picked off and absorbed into super conferences?

this...

I'd be really surprised if the Big 12 holds for 5 more years... even right now A&M fans are stirring up rumblings about bolting for the SEC, and UT is just biding its time with the Big 12 to make sure everything works before going independent

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Personally I think we are a perfect replacement for Colorado and Nebraska in the Big 12. I know most will disagree with me, but NT is not that tiny commuter school some have thought of us to be in the past. We are a good size school that is growing bigger and stronger every year with a massive alumni base. We finally have our facilities in place and we offer the best location and market there ever could be.

Rick

----I agree... I just they would... we have great potential with the size (and alum size) and location near a huge population center.... if Central Florida etc. can make the jump in a short time to that level, so could we.

---The Big East is way too large..... I think it will eventually split up and who knows what alignment will occur when that happens (if it does). When it does, it could cause a musical chairs situation for a while... I don't see the WAC getting any better in the somewhat near future.

---Being rather successful the next 2-3 years could be a very big deal for us with the Big XII down in size.

.

Edited July 20, 2011 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Good thoughts, but why is everyone assuming the Big 12 holds? It seems like just a matter of time before Texas goes independent (as seen by the recent TV exclusive conference game broadcast announcement) and TAMU and possibly OU bolt for the SEC. Without them, what keeps that conference from being picked off and absorbed into super conferences?

The Big 12 may not hold, but OU is too cowardly to go to the SEC. They'd go Pac-12. Texas A&M may join them. I'm not real impressed with what I've seen out of OU and A&M's athletic departments in the way of gonads.

Neither had the balls to tell Texas to stick it last year when both had the offer to jump to the SEC. Both would have followed Texas into the Pac-10. Pathetic.

OU appear to be at the pinnacle of its power and, yet, still can't seem to act on its own. Texas, in my opinion, is like the 2000s mortgage market before the crisis - it will get too big and unwieldy for itself and crash. Outside of Texas, there isn't going to be much interest in their brand; something Notre Dame has already discovered.

Having a big pile of money is one thing; but, you still have to compete. Texas sucked last year and will likely suck again this year. You can't dress up dollars and put them on the field.

[KoldBeer]

The Big 12 may not hold, but OU is too cowardly to go to the SEC. They'd go Pac-12. Texas A&M may join them. I'm not real impressed with what I've seen out of OU and A&M's athletic departments in the way of gonads.

Neither had the balls to tell Texas to stick it last year when both had the offer to jump to the SEC. Both would have followed Texas into the Pac-10. Pathetic.

OU appear to be at the pinnacle of its power and, yet, still can't seem to act on its own. Texas, in my opinion, is like the 2000s mortgage market before the crisis - it will get too big and unwieldy for itself and crash. Outside of Texas, there isn't going to be much interest in their brand; something Notre Dame has already discovered.

Having a big pile of money is one thing; but, you still have to compete. Texas sucked last year and will likely suck again this year. You can't dress up dollars and put them on the field.

I think OU and A&M are playing a game of poker to get changes made to Longhorn Network but Sportingnews is stating that OU and A&M may go to SEC...

A source told Sporting News Wednesday that both Texas A&M and Oklahoma are so concerned about rival Texas gaining a recruiting advantage with the newly-formed Longhorn Network, the two institutions could turn to the SEC if the problems can’t be figured out. The core issue: The Longhorn Network will televise live high school football games in the state of Texas, an obvious recruiting advantage for Texas.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-07-20/oklahoma-texas-am-may-look-at-moving-to-sec-because-of-texas-tv-network

[untjim1995]

The Big 12 may not hold, but OU is too cowardly to go to the SEC. They'd go Pac-12. Texas A&M may join them. I'm not real impressed with what I've seen out of OU and A&M's athletic departments in the way of gonads.

Neither had the balls to tell Texas to stick it last year when both had the offer to jump to the SEC. Both would have followed Texas into the Pac-10. Pathetic.

OU appear to be at the pinnacle of its power and, yet, still can't seem to act on its own. Texas, in my opinion, is like the 2000s mortgage market before the crisis - it will get too big and unwieldy for itself and crash. Outside of Texas, there isn't going to be much interest in their brand; something Notre Dame has already discovered.

Having a big pile of money is one thing; but, you still have to compete. Texas sucked last year and will likely suck again this year. You can't dress up dollars and put them on the field.

I think the Aggies did have the cojones to stand up to them--which is actually why the Big XII-II exists still. If the Aggies would have just followed in line like all of the other South teams did, the PAC-16 would already be in place. A&M went to the SEC and basically said we want to go this way, not west. Texas, realizing that they could still get a ton of money and their own network, along with the strong realization that A&M in the SEC would be TERRIBLE for recruiting in Texas, got their friends in Austin and in the state to basically get A&M's BOR "bought off". The reason the SEC rumblings are still so loud in College Station is that A&M knows they can go to the SEC and fit right in and still make a boatload of money, but they have to convince the old Aggies that make up the BOR to do it. The Longhorn Network may very well be the straw that broke the camel's back for many of those high up at A&M.

As for OU, I am not sure what to make of them. They can probably go to the SEC if they want or out west if they want. They seem to be tied at the hip with Texas, which is very odd to me. Texas will become an independant before they go anywhere, now that the LHN is up and running. OSU basically came out and said they would go wherever Texas goes, but if they go indy, OSU and OU may be tied together, which still may be fine to the SEC. The schools that WILL get screwed in this fiasco are Baylor and Iowa State. Neither will find AQ status if this thing falls apart. The others will be interesting to see where they land.

[LongJim]

Chip Brown:

"ABC/ESPN...didn't want to see Texas and Oklahoma disappear to the Pac-16 conference network likely to be run by Fox. ABC/ESPN, in my opinion, also saw the possibility of realignment coming if the Big 12 fell apart, and that could have led to remodeling the SEC and ACC, conferences in which ABC/ESPN has more than $4 billion tied up in TV contracts.

If the SEC expands by four or the ACC gets picked apart and then remodeled in some merger with the Big East, ABC/ESPN likely has to renegotiate those deals, possibly for more than the $4 billion it had already committed.

So why not just honor the deal it had struck with the Big 12 despite losing two teams and a conference championship game? By comparison it was a relative pittance to keep Texas and Oklahoma away from Fox and protect its investments in the SEC and ACC.

Texas became the first to blink, backing away from its Pac-10 invitation and reaching out to Texas A&M at the bargaining table. Credit both the Aggies and the Longhorns for realizing the time wasn't right to break up a 100-year rivalry that even includes mentions of each school in the other's fight song.

TEXAS A&M - Aggies' athletics are $16 million in debt and are one big dysfunctional family (How else do you explain Bill Byrne at a family reunion in Idaho when the Ags are contemplating their most important moment in the last 100 years?).

Say what you want about Gene Stallings and A&M system chancellor Mike McKinney zeroing in on the SEC, they didn't waver, and it finally got to Texas.

As UT officials began having doubts about the Pac-10 deal, the Longhorns didn't want to be seen as the drivers in ripping apart the Big 12 and a 100-year rivalry with the Aggies.

UT officials ultimately blinked first and said they'd go back to the table for the Beebe Plan if A&M would. The Aggies did and walked away with $20 million guaranteed - the same as Texas and OU - because it had a real suitor. Not bad for a destitute, non-performing football program for most of the past decade."

[LongJim]

OU appear to be at the pinnacle of its power and, yet, still can't seem to act on its own.

Neither OU or Texas wants more than a handful of games that could realistically impede it's chances of making the MNC game. There is no reason for either of them to join the SEC. There is also no $ enticing them to make the switch.

OU recruiting cannot survive unless the program wins consistently. They have no other real draw. The level of competition in the SEC is one dagger. The introduction of the SEC into Texas recruiting grounds is the other. OU does not want that, and Texas certainly does not want it.

Furthermore, SEC incursion into Texas would be terrible for UNT's program and recruiting, as well.

[ColoradoEagle]

Furthermore, SEC incursion into Texas would be terrible for UNT's program and recruiting, as well.

There's always the possibility that the SEC tries to own the Dallas market by bringing in UNT at some point down the line. Far-fetched, I admit, but if they were serious about getting into Texas, you could do worse than having alternating years in DFW.

[LongJim]

There's always the possibility that the SEC tries to own the Dallas market by bringing in UNT at some point down the line. Far-fetched, I admit, but if they were serious about getting into Texas, you could do worse than having alternating years in DFW.

You bet that possibility exists. I don't think it's very likely to happen in the next 20 years, and I think there are several Texas schools in front of UNT right now, but you never know.

UNT, for all of the naysaying here and elsewhere, is truly a sleeping giant. That's trite, and old, but it simply is. It has been for a long time. The right parties--in sufficient numbers and with sufficient $--simply have to push the program and continue to push it until it becomes a snowball rolling downhill.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

OU recruiting cannot survive unless the program wins consistently. They have no other real draw. The level of competition in the SEC is one dagger. The introduction of the SEC into Texas recruiting grounds is the other. OU does not want that, and Texas certainly does not want it.

This doesn't make any sense. OU had no winning seasons from 1994-1998, five years. Yet, they were still landing future NFL players during that time period. The hire of a real coach had them winning a national title within two years of his hire. OU gets players from all over the country.

The recruiting advantage of Texas is an overplayed hand in these type of discussions. Their recruiting is basically finished by April. So, what is the new television channel going to accomplish? Tipping it so they're basically done in March instead?

Same with OU. They're going to get top recruits early and often whether or not Texas has a network. The network doesn't give Texas more than 85 scholarships, so they can't just give a scholarship to every football playing kid in the state or country.

The reality is that there is always a bubble on things. The BCS schools will eat themselves in their race for greed. Notre Dame is the prime example. Own network. NFL coach. It didn't matter.

At some point, you still have to have your 85 scholarship players get on the field against other schools with their 85 scholarship players.

There's nothing more to gain. Texas and OU already have state of the art stadiums, work out facilities, and coaching. More money gets them no more advantage than they already have. The proof is Texas' 5-7 record in 2010.

The money doesn't lift weights, practice, coach, or play. The Longhorn Channel will be nothing more than a masturbation station for their pathetic fan base. And, I expect the OUs of the world to follow suit. They will quickly be as irrelevant as MTV has become. There's a saturation point, and college football is sweeping headlong blindly towards it.

Edited July 21, 2011 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[NT80]

Furthermore, SEC incursion into Texas would be terrible for UNT's program and recruiting, as well.

The SEC is already starting to make inroads into DFW thru scheduling. Arkansas plays A&M annually in Arlington, plus will play at TCU in 2016. LSU plays this season at JerryWorld against Oregon and will also play at TCU in the future.

[LongJim]

This doesn't make any sense. OU had no winning seasons from 1994-1998, five years. Yet, they were still landing future NFL players during that time period. The hire of a real coach had them winning a national title within two years of his hire. OU gets players from all over the country.

OU has 8 players that are more than an adjacent state drive from OK. UNT has just as many. Their "nationwide" recruiting is a myth. They depend on Texas as the lifeblood of their football program. By bringing nearly half their schedule into OK against SEC teams, and by bringing SEC teams into Texas against UT, it would deal a crippling blow to both teams' recruiting.

aTm/Arkansas is one thing. It's not worth getting worked up over. I'm talking about SEC playing 10 games per year in Texas/OK. If you think it will not dilute the recruiting pool and make it more difficult for Texas universities to recruit, you're being naive.

Edited July 21, 2011 by LongJim

[LongJim]

The SEC is already starting to make inroads into DFW thru scheduling. Arkansas plays A&M annually in Arlington, plus will play at TCU in 2016. LSU plays this season at JerryWorld against Oregon and will also play at TCU in the future.

Yep. They absolutely are. Why do you think that is? Arkansas and LSU want greater penetration into Texas. Overall, it's because the SEC wants exposure in Texas. They want the TV sets, and they want the recruits here.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

The Longhorn Channel will be nothing more than a masturbation station for their pathetic fan base. And, I expect the OUs of the world to follow suit. They will quickly be as irrelevant as MTV has become. There's a saturation point, and college football is sweeping headlong blindly towards it.

Spot on and signature worthy.

[Eagle1855]

It's a humorous quote, but can really call a fan-base that supports their team so strongly that they could command their own network "pathetic?" I mean, I'd go from 6 to midnight if a mean green network was announced.

As far as all the rest of this stuff is concerned, my thoughts are as follows:

1.) We need a baseball team.

2.) We need to win.

We can control those two things.

After that, the conferences will shake up at least once more and when they do we'll want to have a good resume/compelling case to present.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

OU has 8 players that are more than an adjacent state drive from OK. UNT has just as many. Their "nationwide" recruiting is a myth. They depend on Texas as the lifeblood of their football program. By bringing nearly half their schedule into OK against SEC teams, and by bringing SEC teams into Texas against UT, it would deal a crippling blow to both teams' recruiting.

It's not a myth. OU's got players from every region of the country on their roster, from New Jersey to California. I'll bet that during Stoops' tenure, they've gotten player from just about every state in the union.

Of course, they're going to get players from Texas - it's only 90 miles from Norman. But, the question is whether the Longhorn Network will adversely effect recruiting. In OU's case, that's a distinctly laughable notion.

Again, the scholarship limit is still 85 for every school at this level. Texas having a network won't change that. It means nothing. It's a jerkoff channel for people whose lives are so pathetic that they have to watch college athletics 365 days a year. These are the same type of middle-aged losers who run around hounding 18-year old kids for autographs.

Just watch. This type of thing will saturate the market because there are only a finite number of people whose lives are so pathetic. The vast majority of people can draw a line between supporting their alma mater on gameday and having a craving to see something about it every day of the year. Most of the alumni and fans will get tired of pulling out the credit card for $24.95 every time a game is on.

This is what is happening now. The pissing match between Texas and the Big 12 now is Texas wanting to pull one conference game a year and make people pay them to watch it instead of keeping it in the Big 12's current TV package. Other schools, and their fans, won't do it enough to make it profitable.

What dickbrains that run the Texas', OUs', etc. of the world want in the future is for every game to be pay-per-view straight to them. At that point, we'll see how popular the game really is...or, isn't.

What the Sun Belt Conference and other conferences need to realize is that they have the opportunity to jump into the "free" televised game gap that the greedy buttholes of the college football world leave behind.

Longhorn Network, BYU Network, Big Ten Network, Notre Dame on NBC...it's all a result of this myopic belief that everyone cares about your program enough to pay you. It's a lie.

I think BYU, Texas, the Big Ten Network, and Notre Dame have overplayed their hands. As others follow suit, it will just be more and more and more pay-per-view. The average college football fan will get fed up and check out. That's where we and our conference need to be ready to stand in the gap and provide.

Edited July 21, 2011 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Mean Green 93-98]

It's not a myth. OU's got players from every region of the country on their roster, from New Jersey to California. I'll bet that during Stoops' tenure, they've gotten player from just about every state in the union.

Of course, they're going to get players from Texas - it's only 90 miles from Norman.

Texas has also recruited players from every region of the country. That's how they've gotten some of their most heralded recruits--Ricky Williams from California, Chris Simms from New Jersey, and now Jordan Hicks from Ohio. If you want to say that the vast majority of their roster are from Texas, that's true. But the same is true of OU--typically around 90% of their roster are from Texas. While they have had some success recruiting in other states, the lifeblood of their recruiting is undeniably Texas recruiting.