Does KNTU know about NT ?

GRN-WHT · June 24, 2011

Isn't UNT's RTVF program relatively successful at producing talent in the industry? I suppose it's no USC, but it seems like they might have a pretty good idea what they are doing.

If by "talent" you mean on-air people, then yes, but RTVF is a lot more than that. Most in the program want to be the next Kubrick and don't realize TV is the way to go to get a job, they felt TV and radio were beneath them. Of the people I was in the program with, the TV and radio people are doing pretty good, but the film people, not so much.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 24, 2011

We need some station, that station, there to provide the outlet that is not mainstream and preserve a necessary part of the Denton culture.

I wholeheartedly agree that KNTU needs to focus more of their UT/Big XII energy toward UNT sports. But I believe this post and CMJ's post get at a necessary function of KNTU. I understand the practical, utilitarian idea of making a university station just like the major stations in the Metroplex. But a college is supposed to provide culture, both to its students and the surrounding community. Should we replace the wind symphony with a 4-piece rock band, just because that's what more college students dig? Should our English lit classes focus on reading People magazine? Yes, practicality is good; but UNT is not supposed to be ITT Tech. While I may not always agree with the way they do it, I am thankful that UNT strives to broaden horizons rather than to be a mirror of pop culture.

FirefightnRick · June 24, 2011

That is some good Sheeeeeeeeeeet right there! Damn!

Rick

GrandGreen · June 24, 2011

I have been very irritated by some of KNTU's programming choices. I particularly remember tuning to get the NT football signees and listening to them list every SWC team and their signees and not a word about NT. This was back when there was no information about such things about NT before they actually signed. Overall, you have to admit that KNTU does a good job of covering NT sports.

They must be doing something right because the number of successful sports broadcasters coming out of NT is amazing. I do wish they would expand their NT coverage and do less of the regional stuff. Other than a few hundred jazz aficionados, I can't imagine many listeners other than NT based.

jquincy · June 28, 2011

What bubble were you stuck in, because you should hear some the awesomeness I have been following for 10+ years.

i was talking more about the faculty, but okay. ANY student of the music program would tell you, whether they like it or not, the department faculty and course selection/requirements cram jazz and classical so far up the students' asses that their farts have been nominated for grammies. going to the 'pop music and american culture' class is to a UNT music student what going to recess is for a 4th grader. at least that's how it was for me, hence the change in major.

greenminer · June 28, 2011

i was talking more about the faculty, but okay. ANY student of the music program would tell you, whether they like it or not, the department faculty and course selection/requirements cram jazz and classical so far up the students' asses that their farts have been nominated for grammies. going to the 'pop music and american culture' class is to a UNT music student what going to recess is for a 4th grader. at least that's how it was for me, hence the change in major.

Thanks for the clarification

I thought that was the faculty's job? If I major in jazz, why would I go into a classroom expecting otherwise?

If I am a performance (non-jazz) major, most schools consider it the path towards a concert artist. There are exceptions to that, of course.

We could dedicate an entire thread to the role of music in music colleges and how it should be. It came up in discussions with my professors, and will always (deservedly so) be a hot topic.

I think you'll find that much of the faculty supports (and enjoys!) our musical endeavors when we step off campus, even for those of us that go outside the jazz/classical realm. At least that's how it was and is for me.

jquincy · June 28, 2011

I understand the practical, utilitarian idea of making a university station just like the major stations in the Metroplex.

first of all, it wouldn't be like ANY radio stations in the metroplex if it played indie rock and supported local music. KXT's format is too broad, and KTCU's signal is weak and their programming is all over the map. so you'd have that working for you...

But a college is supposed to provide culture, both to its students and the surrounding community. Should we replace the wind symphony with a 4-piece rock band, just because that's what more college students dig?

ummm... yes. we should. nothing against the wind symphony, but if you want the students to be more wired into what's going on around campus with events, games, etc. (which, i would argue, would have A DIRECT effect on school pride and campus morale) you need to give them a reason to listen. appealing to approximately 19 of 'em ain't gonna cut it and not everyone takes the time to read the campus newspaper everyday. besides, why is it a college's job tob to provide "culture" to students and the surrounding community via their radio station? isn't that what class is for? come to think of it, wouldn't it benefit the university if the radio station appealed to not only current students, but prospective students as well if ANY of the 18-25 demo actually tuned in? and what, by the way, defines "culture"? why is a 4-piece rock band less worthy of being considered "culture" than the wind symphony? "art" is as subjective a term as "culture" is. it doesn't matter if it takes 52 people to play a 30 minute piece or 1 person to play for 30 seconds, you nor i have the right to say one is more deserving of praise and recognition than the other. there are a lot of college radio stations around this country that play independent artists and support their local music/art scenes, why do you suppose they're not as concerned with "providing culture"? maybe they are in a since of what "culture" really means? maybe their students listen and are tied into what's happening on campus AND the surrounding community? i'm probably crazy here, but i don't think preserving culture is any more important than allowing it to progress.

Edited June 29, 2011 by jquincy

jquincy · June 28, 2011

Thanks for the clarification

I thought that was the faculty's job? If I major in jazz, why would I go into a classroom expecting otherwise?
If I am a performance (non-jazz) major, most schools consider it the path towards a concert artist. There are exceptions to that, of course.

We could dedicate an entire thread to the role of music in music colleges and how it should be. It came up in discussions with my professors, and will always (deservedly so) be a hot topic.

I think you'll find that much of the faculty supports (and enjoys!) our musical endeavors when we step off campus, even for those of us that go outside the jazz/classical realm. At least that's how it was and is for me.

it's also the faculty's job, at least in part, to determine the course requirements for graduation. i was not a jazz major. if i major in jazz, i should expect to learn about jazz. but if i major in music history or vocal performance, i shouldn't be beaten to death by jazz. it has a place, no doubt, but the emphasis they put on it is a little out of proportion. and it's a complete myth that being classically trained somehow makes you better at your craft. it might make you more well-rounded, but nothing can replace good ol' fashioned rehearsal and God given talent. you could do/have that and be head and shoulders better than 10,000 people with perfomance degrees without ever stepping foot on a college campus.

and i've been in bands that played/play in denton since 1999. the only professor i ever saw at any show was one of my english professors. english-1, music professors-0 in the last 12 years. but i'm glad they somehow made to your shows.

Edited June 29, 2011 by jquincy

Mean Green 93-98 · June 28, 2011

first of all, it wouldn't be like ANY radio stations in the metroplex if it played indie rock and supported local music. KXT's format is too broad, and KTCU's signal is weak and their programming is all over the map. so you'd have that working for you...

So why would that prepare RTVF majors for a career in broadcasting any better than broadcasting jazz?

ummm... yes. we should. nothing against the wind symphony, but if you want the students to be more wired into what's going on around campus with events, games, etc. (which, i would argue, would have A DIRECT effect on school pride and campus morale) you need to give them a reason to listen. appealing to approximately 19 of 'em ain't gonna cut it and not everyone takes the time to read the campus newspaper everyday. besides, why is it a college's job tob to provide "culture" to students and the surrounding community via their radio station? isn't that what class is for? come to think of it, wouldn't it benefit the university if the radio station appealed to not only current students, but prospective students as well if ANY of the 18-25 demo actually tuned in? and what, by the way, defines "culture"? why is a 4-piece rock band less worthy of being considered "culture" than the wind symphony? "art" is as subjective a term as "culture" is. it doesn't matter if takes 40 people to play a 30 minute piece or 1 person to play for 30 seconds, you nor i have the right to say one is more deserving of praise and recognition than the other. there are a lot of college radio stations around this country that play independent artists and support their local music/art scenes, why do you suppose they're not as concerned with "providing culture"? maybe they are in a since of what "culture" really means? maybe their students listen and are tied into what's happening on campus AND the surrounding community? i'm probably crazy here, but i think preserving culture is no more important than allowing it to progress.

It's all subjective? Is National Enquirer just as worthy of being studied in English lit classes as Ernest Hemingway or Edgar Allan Poe? Of course not. Likewise, Mozart, Bach, and Debussy (and to a lesser degree Duke Ellington, John Coltrane, and Chick Corea) demonstrate ingenuity, a grasp of how harmony functions, and general compositional skill far exceeding that of Kurt Cobain or Keith Richards. I love listening to some pretty simple stuff, but even those who write and play that music would not try to put themselves in the same class as Mozart (except for the really deluded ones).

Green P1 · June 29, 2011

and i've been in bands that played/play in denton since 1999. the only professor i ever saw at any show was one of my english professors. english-1, music professors-0 in the last 12 years. but i'm glad they somehow made to your shows.

jquincy · June 29, 2011

So why would that prepare RTVF majors for a career in broadcasting any better than broadcasting jazz?

it wouldn't, necessarily. but believe or not, preparing RTVF students for careers in broadcasting isn't the sole function of a college radio station. if that was all they were concerned with why bother even having one at all? they can just get graded on recordings they make of themselves in a mock studio.

It's all subjective? Is National Enquirer just as worthy of being studied in English lit classes as Ernest Hemingway or Edgar Allan Poe? Of course not. Likewise, Mozart, Bach, and Debussy (and to a lesser degree Duke Ellington, John Coltrane, and Chick Corea) demonstrate ingenuity, a grasp of how harmony functions, and general compositional skill far exceeding that of Kurt Cobain or Keith Richards. I love listening to some pretty simple stuff, but even those who write and play that music would not try to put themselves in the same class as Mozart (except for the really deluded ones).

you're the second person to compare some periodical (i.e. national enquirer, people magazine, etc.) to rock/rhythm and blues in an analogy. i think you're missing my point completely. first of all, i don't know how it was for you when you went to UNT, but when i did the faculty was kind enough to actually teach me that there's a difference between literature and journalism. reading people magazine in english lit wouldn't make any sense, but neither would it to read hemingway in a journalism class. as an aside in defense of journalistic periodicals: ANY historian would tell you that if you really want to learn about what regular life was like in, say, the 1860s for example, you would read the newspapers and magazines of the day LONG before you'd pick up a book written in the same time. my point is that it's same sad reduction you make of journalism when compared to literature as you do rock/rhythm and blues when compared to jazz or classical music. i'm also always a little bemused and amused by this prevailing notion in some people that "more complex=better, simple=bad". if it's so easy, why doesn't everyone do it? you make rock n' roll sound like blinking or something. the fact of the matter is, in 500 years, rock/rhythm and blues is going to be just as valid in the minds of music historians as classical and jazz. in 500 years from now it'll all be thought of as antiquated forms of music. but you tell me, if you were going to really try to learn about the life struggles of common people in history through music, which would you listen to, a folk song, or frederick chopin? keep in mind, folk music and spirituals were the rock/pop (what you would've probably turned your nose up at) of the 19th century. i rest my case.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 29, 2011

it wouldn't, necessarily. but believe or not, preparing RTVF students for careers in broadcasting isn't the sole function of a college radio station. if that was all they were concerned with why bother even having one at all? they can just get graded on recordings they make of themselves in a mock studio.

you're the second person to compare some periodical (i.e. national enquirer, people magazine, etc.) to rock/rhythm and blues in an analogy. i think you're missing my point completely. first of all, i don't know how it was for you when you went to UNT, but when i did the faculty was kind enough to actually teach me that there's a difference between literature and journalism. reading people magazine in english lit wouldn't make any sense, but neither would it to read hemingway in a journalism class. as an aside in defense of journalistic periodicals: ANY historian would tell you that if you really want to learn about what regular life was like in, say, the 1860s for example, you would read the newspapers and magazines of the day LONG before you'd pick up a book written in the same time. my point is that it's same sad reduction you make of journalism when compared to literature as you do rock/rhythm and blues when compared to jazz or classical music. i'm also always a little bemused and amused by this prevailing notion in some people that "more complex=better, simple=bad". if it's so easy, why doesn't everyone do it? you make rock n' roll sound like blinking or something. the fact of the matter is, in 500 years, rock/rhythm and blues is going to be just as valid in the minds of music historians as classical and jazz. in 500 years from now it'll all be thought of as antiquated forms of music. but you tell me, if you were going to really try to learn about the life struggles of common people in history through music, which would you listen to, a folk song, or frederick chopin? keep in mind, folk music and spirituals were the rock/pop (what you would've probably turned your nose up at) of the 19th century. i rest my case.

It's now clear to me that you just skimmed my earlier post without having any idea what I was talking about or what I was responding to. I don't disagree with "your case" at all, but it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

jquincy · June 29, 2011

It's now clear to me that you just skimmed my earlier post without having any idea what I was talking about or what I was responding to. I don't disagree with "your case" at all, but it has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

i'm honestly sorry if i missed something in some earlier post of your's, but i read your response to mine word for word, and responded to it in kind. please enlighten me as to what your point was if it was not to counter mine.

jquincy · June 29, 2011

sorry dude, i'm just not following your visual. me no get your funny funny.

aztecskin · July 31, 2011

How many turn to KNTU for sports updates? If so do you dictate your internet posts to your grandson?

I never listened to KNTU, watched NTTV or read the NTDaily looking for The Best content. Expecting reasonably competent and relevant content is pretty understandable but questioning the school curriculum to make sure you get your UNT sports news on the drive home is reaching.

Also, don't the vast majority of people prefer non-sports talk radio? Don't even quote me Ticket ratings either because a good chunk of their style is guy-talk. Furthermore, they hardly talk UNT sports either. KNTU is likely a fairly decent example of the kind of programming you'd get from volunteers who are involved in the music program.

Complete speculation here: wasn't that Green Guys show (both incarnations) self-started? Shouldn't you be directing your energy and encouragement to student who would like to continue doing a (likely horrible) sports show?

rcade · July 31, 2011

I agree, KNTU shouldn't be pandering to all 5 jazz listeners in the DFW area it should be a service first to the RTVF students and the University as a whole. It doesn't help the students when all they learn is how to be a DJ in a dead format and rip and read AP wires.

KNTU has a great track record for producing professional broadcasters. Instead of being yet another college rock station, they've become well-established for jazz at a university that's known for its College of Music.

UNT fans often complain about the lack of traditions. Jazz is a UNT tradition and you're crapping on it.

rcade · July 31, 2011

But I strongly disagree about the call to change formats. In a recent thread, there was a discussion about being proud of the university. There is one undisputed thing that North Texas does that is better than any other university in the country and that is its jazz program. Why would you not want the university radio station to mirror what is best and unique at our school?

Exactly. When I went to UNT I wanted KNTU to be college rock too. But over time I've come to appreciate the fact that the school and the radio station are known for jazz.

GRN-WHT · July 31, 2011

Besides, people who bash KNTU consistently need to keep in mind that it is a student-run radio station.

Student operated-yes. Student run-no. Russ Campbell runs the station and he wouldn't let the students change formats if they wanted to.

GRN-WHT · July 31, 2011

KNTU has a great track record for producing professional broadcasters. Instead of being yet another college rock station, they've become well-established for jazz at a university that's known for its College of Music.

UNT fans often complain about the lack of traditions. Jazz is a UNT tradition and you're crapping on it.

I think what's crap is the number of current students that care at all about the station. When I was in school visiting friends elsewhere, a lot of them listened to campus radio. Not here.

Not sure I'd call something a tradition that has such a tiny fraction of current students listening and in your words takes getting older to appreciate.

NorthTexan95 · July 31, 2011

How many turn to KNTU for sports updates? If so do you dictate your internet posts to your grandson?

I never listened to KNTU, watched NTTV or read the NTDaily looking for The Best content. Expecting reasonably competent and relevant content is pretty understandable but questioning the school curriculum to make sure you get your UNT sports news on the drive home is reaching.

Also, don't the vast majority of people prefer non-sports talk radio? Don't even quote me Ticket ratings either because a good chunk of their style is guy-talk. Furthermore, they hardly talk UNT sports either. KNTU is likely a fairly decent example of the kind of programming you'd get from volunteers who are involved in the music program.

Complete speculation here: wasn't that Green Guys show (both incarnations) self-started? Shouldn't you be directing your energy and encouragement to student who would like to continue doing a (likely horrible) sports show?

When I was at NT in the early 90's the only time I listened to KNTU was when I was turning the dial to some other station. The only time I watched NTTV is when I was dating a girl who was making videos for it. I read the NT Daily occasionally but after the Captain Amazing comic when away I have very little need of it.

rcade · July 31, 2011

Not sure I'd call something a tradition that has such a tiny fraction of current students listening and in your words takes getting older to appreciate.

It didn't take getting older. Plenty of college students spoke up for KNTU when I wrote a NT Daily column making fun of it.

In hindsight, they were right and I was wrong. UNT has a world-renowned music program. KNTU is part of that. It would've been stupid to turn the station into another college alt-rock station.

greenminer · July 31, 2011

I don't think this is an issue of tradition. Just KNTU's role and purpose within Denton.

But, since it was brought up, here's my 2 cents:

Tradition is not necessarily about appealing to current cultural trends and mainstream styles. Above all else, it should be about connecting one generation to the next. Some parts inherently become "dated" and, conversely, we will always have a tiny faction of people who insist on "updating" traditions. Which seems counter-intuitive and against the point.

I thought this was a good post:

Should we replace the wind symphony with a 4-piece rock band, just because that's what more college students dig? Should our English lit classes focus on reading People magazine? Yes, practicality is good; but UNT is not supposed to be ITT Tech. While I may not always agree with the way they do it, I am thankful that UNT strives to broaden horizons rather than to be a mirror of pop culture.