Annual (And Useful) Rivalry Thread

The Fake Lonnie Finch · June 20, 2011

In posting about the Tulsa game, I figured I'd pull out the bat and beat the dead "Who's Our Rival" horse. Here is a list of schools we've played most often, and the last time we played them:

SWT/Texas State - 39 (1994)

New Mexico State - 34 (2004)

SMU - 33 (2007)

Sam Houston State - 30 (1994)

Stephen F. Austin - 29 (1994)

ULM - 27 (2010)

Tulsa - 22 (2008)

UTEP - 21 (1980)

Arkansas State - 20 (2010)

Memphis - 20 (1980, regular season - 2003, bowl)

TCU - 18 (2002)

Cincinnati - 17 (1973, regular season - 2002, bowl)

Louisville - 17 (1995)

Louisiana - 15 (2010)

Baylor - 13 (2004)

Houston - 12 (1998)

Louisiana Tech - 11 (2006)

Nevada - 11 (1999)

Oklahoma State - 11 (1994)

Middle Tennessee - 10 (2010)

Northwestern State (La.) - 10 (1994)

Future Schedules - Out of conference (correct me if I have these wrong):

2012

@ LSU

@ Kansas State

2013

Ohio

Ball State

@ Georgia

Army

2014

@ Texas

SMU

@Army

@ Tulsa

2015

@SMU

@Iowa

Tulsa

2016

SMU

Tulsa

@ Florida

@ Army

2017

Army

@Iowa

@SMU

2018

@ Army

@ Arkansas

SMU

Happy to see SMU and Tulsa on the future schedule. Very solid. The series with Army is classic. Love that as well. I also like tapping into the MAC. Now more than ever with Midwesterner Dan McCarney piloting the ship.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but I think I see these home dates available:

2012 - Two home dates available

2015, 2017, and 2018 - One home date available

Available, from the "rivalry" list to play us at home in:

2012: TCU, Baylor, Tulsa

2015: Texas State, New Mexico State, TCU, UTEP, Louisiana Tech, Nevada, Baylor

2017: TCU, Memphis, Cincinnati, Louisiana Tech, Nevada, Baylor, Oklahoma State

2018: UTEP, Memphis, Cincinnati, Louisiana Tech, Nevada, Oklahoma State

Would be nice to see some old rivalry games with schools now in the Big East (Cincy, Louisville...*sigh*...we were once conference mates), but it's unlikely that they'd do one shot home game with us. Ditto, Oklahoma State...although they did go to Louisiana last year, so it's not unheard of.

TCU probably won't "bow" to play us at home ever again. Baylor, maybe. Although, they have been going FCS early to get an extra home game (something some of us have preached for years).

We know Louisiana Tech thinks very highly of themselves...and, for no apparent good reason.

So, where are we left if we want old rivals in the future? Slim pickings. With two away games already in the books from 2013 to 2018, we really have to room for back-to-back year home-and-homes to offer any of them.

Happy to revive SMU and Tulsa, and should probably just leave it at that...although, I'd love to hammer Texas State once they jump up to FBS!

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greenminer · June 20, 2011

Amazing that we played UTEP so many times, all on/before 1980.

Harry · June 20, 2011

Great post.

Mean Green Matt · June 20, 2011

Unless we back out of some games we don't have any open OOC dates until 2016, including a few years where we only have 5 home games...which REALLY needs to change regardless of the cost. I have asked about this, but have yet to get anything that would be classified as a response...

untgeorge · June 20, 2011

Unless we back out of some games we don't have any open OOC dates until 2016, including a few years where we only have 5 home games..

There is a publication out there that says the conference will go to a 9 game conf schedule beginning with 2015. If that is true, and I have not seen it confirmed by the conference office, then we have no openings for a while.

Link is (I hope):

kait8.com/story/14735625/sun-belt-conference-moving-forward-after-2011-spring-meetings

Or if this link doesn't work you can find it on the Sn belt message board posted May 26 by USACoN2012.

Edited June 20, 2011 by untgeorge

SilverEagle · June 20, 2011

You know, North Texas doesn't really have an old rivalry in the traditional sense. Of late we've developed one with MTSU and with ULL.....and to a certain extent Ark St. Of those three, I hope that ULL gets bigger and more intense.

Rivalries tend to work better when the fan bases involved are within driving distance of one another. Which is why, in addition to ULL getting bigger and more intense, I would like to see Texas St. get into the Sunbelt. Like ULL, it's drivable, and they have a great group of fans.....and a good location. In the case of Tx St., we could all travel down there and back on the train.

eppy4life · June 20, 2011

We have some great rivalries here on the board. That's all I need.

untjim1995 · June 20, 2011

This is what we are facing still as a program. Getting decent people to come play here in the future seems like it should be easier because of the new stadium, but looking at TFLF's post about possibilities for other games here, we are going to have to go outside of the area most likely. That isn't all bad, as seen by Indiana coming here in the fall. But those openings, I fear, will just get filled with more one and done road games if the athletic department needs more funds.

Look at next year's home schedule. The only OOC game in Denton is against Texas Southern, then we get 4 SBC home opponents. That will be tough for us to have a huge year in attendance, since we know how fickle the Denton residents/UNT fans are regarding the opponents that come here. The snowball turns into an avalanche if you have another losing season in 2012, because attendance starts falling back down and you have to schedule another $$$ game to pay the AD's bills. It really does make it seem more realistic that we set up a series with Texas State to get a name opponent in here that will bring some people. I think it makes a lot of sense.

The Fake Lonnie Finch · June 20, 2011

Thanks for the board pic, Matt! That clears the discussion up.

I'm on board with the SMU and Tulsa series. Those are great regional rivalries we've picked up and dusted off. That's an in-state and out-of-state OOC pair I could live with playing every year or every other year.

The four games with SMU from 2014-2017 will move that series to 37 games, moving it to 2nd overall. Tulsa in 2011, and 2014-16 give it a four game boost to 26 overall. But, in conference rival Arkansas State will have caught them by then.

As for the "money games" - it's nice to break the OU/Texas cycle and move into Big Ten and SEC territory for some games. Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Iowa, and Indiana will make nice visits. Army is great. K-State, LSU, and Arkansas are familiar territory, albeit not as familiar as Norman and Austin.

It does kind of feel like a momentum crush to have only 5 home games in many seasons. And, if we have nine SBC games in the future, that wraps everything from now until 2019.

Travis · June 20, 2011

It does kind of feel like a momentum crush to have only 5 home games in many seasons. And, if we have nine SBC games in the future, that wraps everything from now until 2019.

I am hoping this will somehow be correted. We can't go three to four years in a row having three away OCC games.

UNT90 · June 21, 2011

Until we get a donating alumni base, we have to pay for this stadium somehow, right?

Wrong

The Fake Lonnie Finch · June 21, 2011

Until we get a donating alumni base, we have to pay for this stadium somehow, right?

In addition to donations, I still like the idea of a GMG.com lottery ticket pool. We win the lottery as a pool and use the winnings to help pay for new stadium. It worked a little when K-State was rebuilding...remember, this article was written in 1998 talking about 1988-1991, so $1 million meant something back then:

http://www.ddy.com/catsfb_story_miracle.html

"Before the 1988 season Kansas State was so desperate for football revenue that it agreed to play its next five games against Oklahoma in Norman, because the road money there was better than the home money in Manhattan."

"When there was no money to begin renovating the football complex, Snyder offered to write a $100,000 personal check. Instead, Kansas rancher Jack Vanier came up with the funds for the complex named in his honor. Then Dave Wagner of Dodge City, Kans., a $25-a-year contributor to the Wildcats, won $37 million in a 1991 national lottery drawing and donated $1 million to buy Kansas State new artificial turf. (Hence, Wagner Field.) Since Snyder's arrival the university has pumped $15 million -- modest by some standards -- into football facilities, and every penny has been paid by private donations. "I never wanted a Taj Mahal," says Snyder. He doesn't have one, but he no longer has a dump."

Mean Green Matt · June 21, 2011

I am hoping this will somehow be correted. We can't go three to four years in a row having three away OCC games.

Hopefully it can be before next year. To have only 5 home games, and one against an FCS oppononent in the brand new stadium is absurd. Surely the cost to backout of the LSU game or KSU (I actually was looking forward to going up there again though) would not be nearly as much for us as it would be for them. Maybe someone with a little more "clout" can inquire about this, becuase so far I've been unsuccessful...

Edited June 21, 2011 by Mean Green Matt

The Fake Lonnie Finch · June 21, 2011

Hopefully it can be before next year. To have only 5 home games, and one against an FCS oppononent in the brand new stadium is absurd. Surely the cost to backout of the LSU game or KSU (I actually was looking forward to going up there again though) would not be nearly as much for us as it would be for them. Maybe someone with a little more "clout" can inquire about this, becuase so far I've been unsuccessful...

Two things:

First, we need to see how much we make for home games in the new stadium. Will we generate enough to be able to buy out of contracts.

Second, if we start winning a la Boise State and TCU, the bigger schools will start wanting to buy us out so they won't have to play us.

It'd be nice for both to occur so we can replace those money games with home games in the future.

NCMeanGreen · June 21, 2011

Well, for me I really liked the NMSU rivalry. I enjoyed all of those games for some reason...

meaniegreenie · June 21, 2011

In addition to donations, I still like the idea of a GMG.com lottery ticket pool. We win the lottery as a pool and use the winnings to help pay for new stadium. It worked a little when K-State was rebuilding...remember, this article was written in 1998 talking about 1988-1991, so $1 million meant something back then:

http://www.ddy.com/catsfb_story_miracle.html

"Before the 1988 season Kansas State was so desperate for football revenue that it agreed to play its next five games against Oklahoma in Norman, because the road money there was better than the home money in Manhattan."

"When there was no money to begin renovating the football complex, Snyder offered to write a $100,000 personal check. Instead, Kansas rancher Jack Vanier came up with the funds for the complex named in his honor. Then Dave Wagner of Dodge City, Kans., a $25-a-year contributor to the Wildcats, won $37 million in a 1991 national lottery drawing and donated $1 million to buy Kansas State new artificial turf. (Hence, Wagner Field.) Since Snyder's arrival the university has pumped $15 million -- modest by some standards -- into football facilities, and every penny has been paid by private donations. "I never wanted a Taj Mahal," says Snyder. He doesn't have one, but he no longer has a dump."

If I ever win a $37M lottery, I GUARANTEE that I will contribute $1M to the UNT AD.

Legend500 · June 23, 2011

If I ever win a $37M lottery, I GUARANTEE that I will contribute $1M to the UNT AD.

If I win that much, I'm buying June Jones.

On topic, I'm a big fan of historical rivalries. You lead off with TCU, Baylor and SMU. Only SMU is really a consistent rival out of those three, and somebody needs to get the money together to cast a shopping cart in fake gold and make it a proper, if awkwardly mobile, series trophy. Better than a frying pan, at least.

Houston is often overlooked, but being the same size in the two biggest metros in the state, it's a natural rivalry. Plus, it's a series that goes back to the MVC days.

Last, I like the El Paso twins. We've gone between Texas-El Paso (an aside - you think we don't like UTSA's unwarranted uppity-ness, you should see Miner fans) and New Mexico State for years. It makes sense to try and schedule these two consistently.

I also really like Tulsa.

So generally, in a year when we can get 3-4 OOC games, I'd try to schedule a combo of SMU, UH, UTEP, NMSU and Tulsa. If TSSM gets on it's feet, then I'd be OK with adding them into the mix as well.

foutsrouts · June 23, 2011

A lot of people don't like LA Tech, but I wouldn't mind adding them to the mix as well. If it is eventually going to come down to us vs them for USA membership, let's prove whose better on the fields and the courts before decision time. Besides, it's an easy drive for both parties.

Arkstfan · June 24, 2011

My theory on rivalries.

1. Helps for the fan base to travel to the away games.

2. Games have to be played regularly.

3. There has to be a triumph you cherish.

4. There has to be a loss that burns at your heart.

Arkansas State and UNT will meet for the 13th consecutive season this year. Louisiana and UNT will be the 12th consecutive meeting. This year marks the 11th consecutive meetings for UNT with ULM and MT, 8th with FAU, 7th with FIU and Troy and 5th with WKU.

UNT - ULM will be the 28th meeting in the series. ULM had the benefit of being the last league loss before "the streak" but a loss like that only matters in retrospect because UNT football took on a new life after that game. If you look at the 10 last meetings since the series renewed, only three were close. The schools are 320 miles apart.

ASU - UNT this year marks 21st playing of the series. It just really hasn't had any winner take all meetings since renewed regularly. Of the last 12 games since regular renewal of the series, seven have been determined by a TD or less. There were the exchanges of grenade celebrations to add a little spice. One thing that drags the series is that most of the ASU fans who come to Denton are from Little Rock or they are from the DFW region. UNT doesn't have a similar alumni base to tap into. The UNT base faces a 460 mile or so trip to ASU, while the ASU fans coming to Denton, many are driving 330 miles or much less.

UL - UNT the entire series has only had 15 games played. Of the 11 games played consecutively, only three were determined by a TD or less. Roughly a 430 mile trip.

The decline of UNT football has taken some of the fun out of it all. Since 2005 only 11 wins against teams currently in the Sun Belt.

To have a healthy series, UNT has to play good football again (appears to be addressed) and then good UNT football has to coincide with good football at one of those three schools because everyone else is really too far away for the fans to follow the team.