Conservative Pundits At It Again

[SilverEagle]

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/06/10/3143314/nobody-holds-so-called-pundits.html

Ed thinks it has to do with anything that might be associated with Democrats. I tend to agree and would add that the pundits in question are also shills for the Oil industry.

[KRAM1]

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/06/10/3143314/nobody-holds-so-called-pundits.html

Ed thinks it has to do with anything that might be associated with Democrats. I tend to agree and would add that the pundits in question are also shills for the Oil industry.

You really seem to like to throw that term "shill" around a bunch when it comes to the oil companies and really any big business. Are folks shills if they just don't agree with some anti-business agenda? Just wondering. No biggie.

So, to you it's OK for dealers to up the price of the Volt $10-20K, but not OK for big oil to charge for its products based on supply and demand? What am I missing here? The VOLT is so great that they are already showing up on used car lots? I wonder how all that electricity is generated that these wonderful electric cars will run on? Wind power perhaps?

Perhaps the editor at the Startlegram is shilling for the electric car advocates...Hmmmmmmm, I wonder.

I like alternative fuel ideas and think there should be continued research and production. Anything to get off the Middle East's oil pipeline, but I do think we should look to ways to produce more oil/gas locally...the US/Canada, etc. The current administration is not helping that much...perhaps they are "shilling" for the environmental lobby. What do you think, Silver?

This sort of "tit for tat" stuff is ruining all possibility of sane political discussion and thought these days. BOTH sides are at fault in that, and it is darn sure time that BOTH sides grew up and started acting in the best interests of this great nation of ours. That's one reason that I have tried to stay out of the political talk here on GMG.Com. It does ABSOLUTLY NO GOOD, and it will not change any one's mind about these positions. Too rigid and too closed minded it seems. That's a shame. there was a time when our politicians (think LBJ) would talk all they wanted in public and then get together behind the scenes and work out a compromise and actually get on with the business of this great nation of ours. Too bad things have become so rigid and so "public" and so "tit for tat" (yes, on both sides of the aisle) that not much good gets done.

Time for everyone to take a step back and maybe, just maybe try to see a little...maybe just a little of both sides of the issue. As is often the case, neither side is 100% right nor 100% wrong.

Edited June 13, 2011 by KRAM1

[UNT90]

http://www.star-tele...ed-pundits.html

Ed thinks it has to do with anything that might be associated with Democrats. I tend to agree and would add that the pundits in question are also shills for the Oil industry.

I don't know. I think you are becoming a shill for Ed Wallace.

[SilverEagle]

You really seem to like to throw that term "shill" around a bunch when it comes to the oil companies and really any big business. Are folks shills if they just don't agree with some anti-business agenda? Just wondering. No biggie.

So, to you it's OK for dealers to up the price of the Volt $10-20K, but not OK for big oil to charge for its products based on supply and demand? What am I missing here? The VOLT is so great that they are already showing up on used car lots? I wonder how all that electricity is generated that these wonderful electric cars will run on? Wind power perhaps?

Perhaps the editor at the Startlegram is shilling for the electric car advocates...Hmmmmmmm, I wonder.

I like alternative fuel ideas and think there should be continued research and production. Anything to get off the Middle East's oil pipeline, but I do think we should look to ways to produce more oil/gas locally...the US/Canada, etc. The current administration is not helping that much...perhaps they are "shilling" for the environmental lobby. What do you think, Silver?

This sort of "tit for tat" stuff is ruining all possibility of sane political discussion and thought these days. BOTH sides are at fault in that, and it is darn sure time that BOTH sides grew up and started acting in the best interests of this great nation of ours. That's one reason that I have tried to stay out of the political talk here on GMG.Com. It does ABSOLUTLY NO GOOD, and it will not change any one's mind about these positions. Too rigid and too closed minded it seems. That's a shame. there was a time when our politicians (think LBJ) would talk all they wanted in public and then get together behind the scenes and work out a compromise and actually get on with the business of this great nation of ours. Too bad things have become so rigid and so "public" and so "tit for tat" (yes, on both sides of the aisle) that not much good gets done.

Time for everyone to take a step back and maybe, just maybe try to see a little...maybe just a little of both sides of the issue. As is often the case, neither side is 100% right nor 100% wrong.

Uhh, you don't seem to be very good with examples or analogies. Either that, or you didn't read the story completely. If I was shilling for the environmentalist and/or the Obama administration, I would be saying (Punditing?) that Oil is a total failure as a viable fuel for mass transportation...without providing any competent information to back my statement....much like the pundits who are probably shilling for the oil company.....and they had no earthly idea what they were talking about.

Business 101 Mark, who benefits the most if the Volt fails?

90, I don't need to shill for Ed Wallace. He gets paid the same if 1000 people read his op-ed or 1 million.

[UNT90]

90, I don't need to shill for Ed Wallace. He gets paid the same if 1000 people read his op-ed or 1 million.

It just seems you like him... a lot. It's Ok, we all have our man crushes. Who am I to judge.

Personally, if I could get by with a car with limited space, I would drive a Toyota Camry Hybrid. Over 30 miles a gallon (even for a rough driver) and no need to re-charge. Plus, you are dead meat in a Volt if there is any meaningful impact.

[FirefightnRick]

Oil-giant Venezuela tries to limit energy use

The move follows a series of weekend blackouts, and comes after Venezuela in 2010 imposed stiff power rationing controls for months.

See, this is what we need to do, destroy and bring down those bastard oil companies and just live with the rolling blackouts as the rationing heats up. Won't August in Texas be fun without air conditioning? Who do you think will suffer the most when that happens? The sick and elderly, that's who. But AARP and the libs continue to blame the conservatives with the Mediscare rhetoric.

Energy experts however say the country's utility system needs a 20-billion-dollar investment over the next four years to meet demand.

Venezuela nationalized the national electric power utility in 2007.

Ah yeah, lets hear it for the SOCIALIST way!

Rick

[Censored by Laurie]

Oil-giant Venezuela tries to limit energy use

See, this is what we need to do, destroy and bring down those bastard oil companies and just live with the rolling blackouts as the rationing heats up. Won't August in Texas be fun without air conditioning? Who do you think will suffer the most when that happens? The sick and elderly, that's who. But AARP and the libs continue to blame the conservatives with the Mediscare rhetoric.

Ah yeah, lets hear it for the SOCIALIST way!

Rick

Didn't energy deregulation and manipulated markets by companies like ENRON lead to large scale blackouts in California in '00 and '01?

[DeepGreen]

Without the oil industry, DeepGreen would never have been able to buy Club Seats at the new Mean Green Stadium. So, thank a greasy old oil refinery for my contribution.

[Rudy]

Is it football season yet?

[FirefightnRick]

Didn't energy deregulation and manipulated markets by companies like ENRON lead to large scale blackouts in California in '00 and '01?

You mean manipulated by A company called Enron? Yes. Then Enron was brought to it's knees in bankruptcy, force to pay a settlement and it's CEO convicted of several crimes but died before he could serve out his sentence.

Rick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

You mean manipulated by A company called Enron? Yes. Then Enron was brought to it's knees in bankruptcy, force to pay a settlement and it's CEO convicted of several crimes but died before he could serve out his sentence.

Rick

--On the board of directors and on Enron audit committee was Wendy Gramm. Phil Gramm (husband) then pulled out of his re-election race and they left the state.

---As for the Volt or electric cars.... they may work ok if a person only drives short distances and lives in a large city...terrible if you need to drive long distances...or live in sparse area... can't recharge quickly.... also remember there are environmental electric generation concerns as well..... My last concern... they have batteries.. how long do they last and what happens to them when they get old. Looks like that is trading one problem for a bunch more.

[FirefightnRick]

--On the board of directors and on Enron audit committee was Wendy Gramm. Phil Gramm (husband) then pulled out of his re-election race and they left the state.

And this meant what?

Rick

[greenminer]

also remember there are environmental electric generation concerns as well..... My last concern... they have batteries.. how long do they last and what happens to them when they get old. Looks like that is trading one problem for a bunch more.

What environmental electric generational concerns are there? Forgive my ignorance.

I thought batteries were recyclable, and they generated no exhaust. Seems like a great trade-off to me...for short distances, anyways.

Edited June 16, 2011 by greenminer

[SilverEagle]

What environmental electric generational concerns are there? Forgive my ignorance.

I thought batteries were recyclable, and they generated no exhaust. Seems like a great trade-off to me...for short distances, anyways.

The batteries are recyclable and with the volt, it's guaranteed for 100,000 miles. A Volt will take anyone living in the city (or the suburbs) on their average commute of 21 miles each way on just battery power. For those living out in West Texas, it has a small gas generator that powers the electric motor for extended drives.

The Nissan Leaf has a stated range of 100 miles on a full charge.

Both fully recharge in 8 hours on 120 and 4 hours on 220. This might not be too exciting for some people, but it's a really great start.

With the technology improving on wind chargers, an affordable home wind charging unit (or solar panel unit) to use primarily on your electric car might be available in the near future.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

And this meant what?

Rick

---I wasn't the one that first mentioned Enron and the fact the CEO was wasn't punished.... neither were several others who should have known what was going on.. A lot of retired oil/gas people in West Texas lost their pensions and their company paid health insurance because of them. Some who had never worked a day at Enron but for companies Enron acquired. Also mentioned rolling blackouts Enron may have caused (I don't know). But I do know one of my son's company has a presense in Japan and rolling blackout is driving them nuts because in manufactoring (not just homes) because ovens baking semiconductors need a comstant sourse of power. Rolling backouts cause severe problems..however Japan just can't do better with those nuke generators gone.

---Without a good or reliable sourse of electric power, these cars become a problem. Easier to put gas in a tank than wait for hours to recharge. Long trips would be near impossible... Someone mentioned the batteries will last 100,000 miles..... ok .. then what do you do with them and how could so many be disposed off safely.?? ... Plus replacing them is no cheap deal either and I doubt recharging a car would be either. It take oil/gas/nukes to generate the electricity to recharge them or at least most of it. Every change of energy form results in some loss (basic physics) I don't see how you come out ahead.

Edited June 16, 2011 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[keith]

If you can't beat 'em, get your government (I mean owners) to increase taxes on the competition.

GM CEO Wants to Increase Federal Gas Tax

It will take a lot of 30-40 mile trips to cross the 80K mile break-even.

Are Electric Cars Actually Bad for the Environment?

But then again, what business does anyone have venturing more than a few miles from their place of residence. Certainly 20 miles is a fair distance and probably way more than enough. I mean really....everyone just needs to stay where they are.

Keith

Edited June 16, 2011 by keith

[FirefightnRick]

---I wasn't the one that first mentioned Enron and the fact the CEO was wasn't punished.... neither were several others who should have known what was going on..

I wasn't the first to mention Enron either, just the fact that the CEO of Enron DID get punished. Who else knew what and who should have been punished you nor I cannot say? I do know that payments are still being sent out because I met one of 14 remaining Enron employees last summer whose current job is overseeing payment disbursals. I didn't know they had a sigle employee left?

Rick

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

I wasn't the first to mention Enron either, just the fact that the CEO of Enron DID get punished. Who else knew what and who should have been punished you nor I cannot say? I do know that payments are still being sent out because I met one of 14 remaining Enron employees last summer whose current job is overseeing payment disbursals. I didn't know they had a sigle employee left?

Rick

---I would not called what happened to him much punishment. He died in luxury at Snowmass, Colo. (not prison) while his case was on appeal after being convicted. His death sheltered a lot of his assets from being taken from his family. . Without much more detail... read the Wikipedia article (or something else if you don't trust it) on him. His investors, employees, and many others suffered a lot more. In October 2006: A federal Judge vacated his conviction.. I think that helped his family as well and made many assets untouchable.. A lot of politicians were sweating blood for a while because of the benefits they that had received from him including an Enron plane used for campaigns. A few of the more honorable ones returned the cash benefits they had received.

.

As for elctric cars... I am not convinced yet... A friend has a hybrid and likes it but I wonder about them in the long term. The energy used to run them is not free and has to be generated somehow and I have concerns about junking out large numbers of them, gasoline ones are pretty much just metal with some plastic, and tires which hybrid/electric ones have anyway. .

Edited June 16, 2011 by SCREAMING EAGLE-66

[Green P1]

Plus, you are dead meat in a Volt if there is any meaningful impact.

Volt Crash Test Ratings

"Small but safe: The Volt and Leaf are classified as small cars, with their overall length, width, and passenger capacity in line with their peers. But their hefty battery packs put their curb weights closer to midsize and larger cars. The Leaf weighs about 3,370 pounds and the Volt about 3,760 pounds. This compares to about 3,200 pounds for Nissan's Altima, a midsize car, and about 3,580 pounds for Chevrolet's Impala, a large family car. Larger, heavier vehicles generally do a better job of protecting people in serious crashes than smaller, lighter ones because both size and weight influence crashworthiness." -International Institute for Highway Safety

Edited June 16, 2011 by Green P1

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

Volt Crash Test Ratings

"Small but safe: The Volt and Leaf are classified as small cars, with their overall length, width, and passenger capacity in line with their peers. But their hefty battery packs put their curb weights closer to midsize and larger cars. The Leaf weighs about 3,370 pounds and the Volt about 3,760 pounds. This compares to about 3,200 pounds for Nissan's Altima, a midsize car, and about 3,580 pounds for Chevrolet's Impala, a large family car. Larger, heavier vehicles generally do a better job of protecting people in serious crashes than smaller, lighter ones because both size and weight influence crashworthiness." -International Institute for Highway Safety

--Personally I doubt the weight from the battery would help protect one much.. In fact I would think the opposite.. Weight from larger steel supports and frame in larger cars do. It really isn't the weight but what that weight is and does.

[greenminer]

I can buy the weight argument.

I've seen crashes where the victim's car rolled several times over. I would think the heavier the car, the less likely to tumble.

Having said that, there is a ton of skepticism in this thread, and people are nit picking. We need to find alternatives to oil, people. Batteries may or may not be a commitment, but we can all agree they are an effort to get away from fossil fuels, right?

[UNTFan23]

I can buy the weight argument.

I've seen crashes where the victim's car rolled several times over. I would think the heavier the car, the less likely to tumble.

Having said that, there is a ton of skepticism in this thread, and people are nit picking. We need to find alternatives to oil, people. Batteries may or may not be a commitment, but we can all agree they are an effort to get away from fossil fuels, right?

Center of gravity places a huge part in whether a car/truck/SUV will roll over or not. Trucks and SUVs have a higher center of gravity than a regular car so while trucks/SUVs tend to weigh more they are at a higher risk for a roll over.

[UNT90]

We need to find alternatives to oil, people. Batteries may or may not be a commitment, but we can all agree they are an effort to get away from fossil fuels, right?

Sure, but let's do it honestly.

Let the market control the switch to alternative fuels. As soon as a cheaper alternative is found, the switch will be made. You can't force people to buy eletric cars because that's what the government thinks they should own. The only thing that will get any alternative energy in the mainstream is if it is cheaper than oil and easy to access/use.

Come up with that, and fortune awaits.

[UNT90]

--Personally I doubt the weight from the battery would help protect one much.. In fact I would think the opposite.. Weight from larger steel supports and frame in larger cars do. It really isn't the weight but what that weight is and does.

You are correct, sir. It goes back to that old high school formula F = M x A. When the mass is in the batteries, and not in the framework, you are increasing your chance of injury BECAUSE the car is heavier.

[DeepGreen]

I can buy the weight argument.

I've seen crashes where the victim's car rolled several times over. I would think the heavier the car, the less likely to tumble.

Having said that, there is a ton of skepticism in this thread, and people are nit picking. We need to find alternatives to oil, people. Batteries may or may not be a commitment, but we can all agree they are an effort to get away from fossil fuels, right?

Seriously, what is wrong with oil? I mean, if we were independent of foreign oil and were able to drill in Alaska, the gulf of Mexico, etc.