Gold Cup 2011

Mean Green Matt · June 26, 2011

concacaf wanted to assure of a sellout in a huge stadium, that's why they set it in a predominately mexican area and in the rose bowl. if they would have staged the final in seattle, qwest field, 90% americans. americans haven't gravitated to soccer yet.

I'm aware of that. CONCACAF specifically places the teams in certain groups so as to maximize revenue. They DO NOT do a true "draw" for the tournament. Just because it was in a predominantly Mexican area doesn't make it not upsetting...

When the USA played in Washington DC in the quarterfinals, well over half of the crowd was rooting for El Salvador (who played after the USA). The 2009 final in New York was about 80% Mexico fans, and the 2007 Final in Chicago (where US Soccer is headquartered) was probably somewhere around 70/30 with Mexico having more fans.

Without a doubt Americans do not support the national team like other countries do, but the fact that there are so many people here that support the teams the US is playing is the part that upsets me.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Mean Green Matt

Green Mean · June 27, 2011

I'm aware of that. CONCACAF specifically places the teams in certain groups so as to maximize revenue. They DO NOT do a true "draw" for the tournament. Just because it was in a predominantly Mexican area doesn't make it not upsetting...

When the USA played in Washington DC in the quarterfinals, well over half of the crowd was rooting for El Salvador (who played after the USA). The 2009 final in New York was about 80% Mexico fans, and the 2007 Final in Chicago (where US Soccer is headquartered) was probably somewhere around 70/30 with Mexico having more fans.

Without a doubt Americans do not support the national team like other countries do, but the fact that there are so many people here that support the teams the US is playing is the part that upsets me.

That has been the culture here for a very long time. We value our own local sports team than the national team. That doesn't mean we don't want the U.S. to win or don't have pride. As I said in the previous post....it doesn't help that its soccer. Americans just don't care about the sport and the ones that do only watch the world cup and/or watch the super leagues in Europe. The U.S. lost on saturday because they sucked and they coughed up a 2-0 lead. Had the game been in Seattle or Boston...maybe the attendance would have had more Americans but this isn't some thing that is new to the Americans and I don't know if it would be 90%. The players themselves said that it's something they're used to and it's no big deal. As far as other countries being more supportive of their national teams...well most other countries have A sport or A league(if that) and that's all they really have. That is why they live and breathe this stuff because they have nothing else to look forward to or no other option. The states have the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, college sports, golf and other niche sports like the MLS. I don't think there's anything to be upset about. All this boils down to Mexico kickin the tail of the Americans on Saturday night even after having a 2-0 lead.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Green Mean

Mean Green Matt · June 27, 2011

That has been the culture here for a very long time. We value our own local sports team than the national team. That doesn't mean we don't want the U.S. to win or don't have pride. As I said in the previous post....it doesn't help that its soccer. Americans just don't care about the sport and the ones that do only watch the world cup and/or watch the super leagues in Europe. The U.S. lost on saturday because they sucked and they coughed up a 2-0 lead. Had the game been in Seattle or Boston...maybe the attendance would have had more Americans but this isn't some thing that is new to the Americans and I don't know if it would be 90%. The players themselves said that it's something they're used to and it's no big deal. As far as other countries being more supportive of their national teams...well most other countries have A sport or A league(if that) and that's all they really have. That is why they live and breathe this stuff because they have nothing else to look forward to or no other option. The states have the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, college sports, golf and other niche sports like the MLS. I don't think there's anything to be upset about. All this boils down to Mexico kickin the tail of the Americans on Saturday night even after having a 2-0 lead.

I'm not talking at all about what happened on the field. We could have won 2-0 and I still would have been upset that 90%+ of the crowd was rooting for Mexico. Many of them are probably even American citizens.

What the players have said is that the "away" crowd does not bother them, but that it sure would be nice to play in front of a true home crowd...some of them felt that atmosphere in Kansas City, which is a pretty pro-American soccer city, but we happened to be playing Guadaloupe. If we had been playing Mexico, they would have had a majority.

It is not like the Mexican fans were even classy. I have read American fans that were at the game on Saturday were called every racial slur you could think of (Spanish and English), and when they were celebrating the USA goals, they has drinks thrown on them, and stuff like that. All of that happening in our own country. I think that is something to be upset about, and it transcends just soccer...but is certain relevant to the discussion of the Gold Cup.

greenminer · June 27, 2011

and I still would have been upset that 90%+ of the crowd was rooting for Mexico. Many of them are probably even American citizens.

You can be upset, but were you surprised?

Mean Green Matt · June 27, 2011

You can be upset, but were you surprised?

Not at all.

THOR · June 28, 2011

I'm not talking at all about what happened on the field. We could have won 2-0 and I still would have been upset that 90%+ of the crowd was rooting for Mexico. Many of them are probably even American citizens.

What the players have said is that the "away" crowd does not bother them, but that it sure would be nice to play in front of a true home crowd...some of them felt that atmosphere in Kansas City, which is a pretty pro-American soccer city, but we happened to be playing Guadaloupe. If we had been playing Mexico, they would have had a majority.

It is not like the Mexican fans were even classy. I have read American fans that were at the game on Saturday were called every racial slur you could think of (Spanish and English), and when they were celebrating the USA goals, they has drinks thrown on them, and stuff like that. All of that happening in our own country. I think that is something to be upset about, and it transcends just soccer...but is certain relevant to the discussion of the Gold Cup.

welcome to the melting pot that is america. unfortunately, no national culture has ever, or will ever, be established because of all the multiculturalism crap that society shoves down our throat. i wish we would shut our borders, shut our immigration, establish english as our national language and develop OUR culture...not the other cultures of the world that want to come here because they can get free stuff and live happily. i don't care about other cultures in america. i care about OURS!!!

Edited June 28, 2011 by THOR

TheTastyGreek · June 28, 2011

welcome to the melting pot that is america. unfortunately, no national culture has ever, or will ever, be established because of all the multiculturalism crap that society shoves down our throat. i wish we would shut our borders, shut our immigration, establish english as our national language and develop OUR culture...not the other cultures of the world that want to come here because they can get free stuff and live happily. i don't care about other cultures in america. i care about OURS!!!

'Murca.

Love it, or git a tomahawk to your forehead.

TheTastyGreek · June 28, 2011

Don't blame me- I voted for Sitting Bull!

The Great Spirit created Honovi Adahy and Keezheekoni, not Honovi Adahy and Segenam Kwatoko!!

If you don't speak Kiowa, GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM.

If you can read this, thank a Baoltai. If it's in Navajo, thank a Code Talker.

My neighbor got a teepee and all I got was his mortgage.

We need more bailouts for our canoes, and less bailouts for big buffalo!

Why should I have to smoke signal "1" for Iroquois??

They're not illegal immigrants, they're just undocumented Pilgrims.

This is my mesa, stay on your side of the arroyo!

TIgreen01 · June 28, 2011

It is not like the Mexican fans were even classy. I have read American fans that were at the game on Saturday were called every racial slur you could think of (Spanish and English), and when they were celebrating the USA goals, they has drinks thrown on them, and stuff like that. All of that happening in our own country. I think that is something to be upset about, and it transcends just soccer...but is certain relevant to the discussion of the Gold Cup.

This kind of stuff helps keep the ratio the way it is at these games. I have not been to a USA-Mexico game, nor do I have any intention of going anytime soon.

I used to think that the Mexican team was partly to blame, but it's hard to say. The players on the previous teams used to resort to cheap shots and all kinds of crap...I always just thought it bled over into the stands. This new batch of young players they have now, though, seem far less likely to resort to that crap. Either way, there is genuine dislike for America and Americans as evidenced by the way the crowds behave...it's hard to understand how people who flock to a country in search of opportunity, can turn around and hate that country, while supporting the place that forced them to leave b/c of such little opportunity. Just a really complicated dynamic that I don't pretend to fully understand...

Edited June 28, 2011 by TIgreen01

greenminer · June 28, 2011

I have turned my bit detector on.

TheTastyGreek · June 28, 2011

I have turned my bit detector on.

There could be some historically significant fun about to go down here.

MeanGreenTexan · June 28, 2011

There could be some historically significant fun about to go down here.

So did the Mexian team beat the USA? I'm pissed! :growl:

Mean Green Matt · June 28, 2011

This kind of stuff helps keep the ratio the way it is at these games. I have not been to a USA-Mexico game, nor do I have any intention of going anytime soon.

I used to think that the Mexican team was partly to blame, but it's hard to say. The players on the previous teams used to resort to cheap shots and all kinds of crap...I always just thought it bled over into the stands. This new batch of young players they have now, though, seem far less likely to resort to that crap. Either way, there is genuine dislike for America and Americans as evidenced by the way the crowds behave...it's hard to understand how people who flock to a country in search of opportunity, can turn around and hate that country, while supporting the place that forced them to leave b/c of such little opportunity. Just a really complicated dynamic that I don't pretend to fully understand...

I'm sure that having to worry about the behavior of the mexican fans does keep a lot of the USA fans away. The hatred for the USA from these people goes deeper than soccer. Before the WC Qualifier in Mexico City in August 2009, somewhere around 70% of mexicans said that their national pride was at stake if they were to lose the game (The US lost 2-1 after taking an early lead).

In the end though, you are completely right....the dynamic is something that I don't personally understand, and never will, probably becuase we are "outsiders". I don't think it should happen though. There has to be some tangible reason that there is large portion of the American population with allegiance to other countries. The baffling part is that if mexico is so awesome, why do some statistics say as much as 10% of their actual population is living in the United States.

Anyways, it all goes back to how important people consider their heritage, and then the whole melting pot/tossed salad debate...I think we are a tossed salad, and that is not how it is supposed to be...

Mean Green Matt · June 28, 2011

Article from MLS Website

American-born defender Miguel Ángel Ponce looks increasingly likely to become a full Mexican international after any hopes he might one day play for the US national team took two blows on Monday.

Ponce scored the only goal in a closed-door scrimmage as Mexico finalized preparation for the Copa América against Bolivia and was officially named in Mexicos 23-man squad for the tournament in Argentina.

It is the dream of everyone, including me, the 22-year-old recently told Guadalajara daily El Trén about his feelings of playing in the Copa América. I feel more Mexican than ever.

Born in Sacramento, Calif., the left back was raised in Tijuana but crossed the border daily to go to school in the US. He played for teams North of the Border before being discovered by Chivas de Guadalajara at age 14 during a tournament in the state of Aguascalientes.

I was born in America, but in my case my family is Mexican, so Im more Mexican than American, Ponce told MLSsoccer.com last September."

Edited June 28, 2011 by Mean Green Matt

Army of Dad · June 28, 2011

Article from MLS Website

We don't need quitters!

He is all set to join his countrymen in eating 'tainted meat' and getting robbed by prostitutes.

Coffee and TV · June 30, 2011

I'm sure that having to worry about the behavior of the mexican fans does keep a lot of the USA fans away. The hatred for the USA from these people goes deeper than soccer. Before the WC Qualifier in Mexico City in August 2009, somewhere around 70% of mexicans said that their national pride was at stake if they were to lose the game (The US lost 2-1 after taking an early lead).

No doubt. Had friends who have attended USA/Mexico in both the US and Mexico City. They stated they were treated better in Azteca than here in the states. I'm pro multi-cultural/melting pot/anti-closed borders, but it upsets me when we're terribly outnumbered in our own country. Being nationalistic is a little silly anyways, as you have no control over what you were born, whether its Mexican/American/White/Black. But you can choose where and who you are, and it irks me that so many immigrants who come to the US for better lives have such a disrespect when it comes to this sort of thing.

Censored by Laurie · July 1, 2011

Just saw this bit on the Soccernet transfer blog...Oskar Gasecki has signed with Bundesliga Champ Borussia Dortmund after a successful trial with the club...he's expected to start for their second team, but may work his way to first team within the year.

Just an interesting name to keep an eye on.

Green Mean · July 2, 2011

welcome to the melting pot that is america. unfortunately, no national culture has ever, or will ever, be established because of all the multiculturalism crap that society shoves down our throat. i wish we would shut our borders, shut our immigration, establish english as our national language and develop OUR culture...not the other cultures of the world that want to come here because they can get free stuff and live happily. i don't care about other cultures in america. i care about OURS!!!

If you don't think America has its own culture and is a culture that is influenced from every other culture then you're blind.

The multiculturalism of this country is what makes this place so great. The the stuff discussed in this thread happens...I'm not denying that but its not the norm. You're looking at a small percentage of the "Immigrants" and assuming everybody is like that.

Censored by Laurie · July 21, 2011

From Soccernet's transfer blog:

18.16 Rangers have signed USA international Alejandro Bedoya on a pre-contract agreement subject to a work permit, the Ibrox club have confirmed.

Good news...chance to team with Maurice Edu and improve his international stock.

Censored by Laurie · July 29, 2011

Well...some of you get your wish, Bob Bradley is out as head coach for the U.S. National Team.

I have mixed feelings on this...I liked Bradley's personality and demeanor and wanted him to succeed. Klinsman and Lippi would be nice replacements...

UNTflyer · July 29, 2011

I want Klinnsman. He has had success as player and manager.

Mean Green Matt · July 29, 2011

I want Klinnsman. He has had success as player and manager.

Despite how much I want an American coach to coach the American team.....I think I'll hope for Klinnsman as well.

MeanGreenHoops · July 29, 2011

Despite how much I want an American coach to coach the American team.....I think I'll hope for Klinnsman as well.

I sure hope it's not Klinnsman. He has a terrible track record as a club coach, and his only notch on his belt was taking an always good German team to the semifinals in their home country for the World Cup. Home teams always do well, that was no big deal.