Gold Cup 2011

[Army of Dad]

Spector has disappointed me because I was really high on him and the direction he was going. Bornstein seemed to have promise but never put it together.

Actually, when I think about it... almost all of our D seems to have stalled except cherundelo (spelling). Bocanegra, Gooch, Spector, etc.

fixed

[Censored by Laurie]

fixed

You think Gooch is continuing to progress?

I think this is a matter of mis-reading...I think Travis was saying only Cherundelo has developed into an international quality fullback.

[Army of Dad]

You think Gooch is continuing to progress?

I think this is a matter of mis-reading...I think Travis was saying only Cherundelo has developed into an international quality fullback.

Hmm, in that case I think he shouldn't have included Bocanegra, he is still quality enough to complete on the international level. Or put another way, is Cherundolo stalled at a high level since I doubt he will get much better?

[Mean Green Matt]

Oh I doubt they fire him during the tournament. A loss Guadeloupe should bring about his firing, though I would think it would be delayed until after we are eliminated from this tournament.

Although....on the list of reasons to fire a soccer coach mid-tournament, a loss to Guadaloupe has to be near the top.

[Censored by Laurie]

Hmm, in that case I think he shouldn't have included Bocanegra, he is still quality enough to complete on the international level. Or put another way, is Cherundolo stalled at a high level since I doubt he will get much better?

I think Boca has been good, too...just relaying how I interpreted Travis's comments.

Problem is, in 2014 both Bocanegra and Cherundelo will be 35...I think they'll both (baring injury) still be in form to be internationals, I just think you'd have to assume that going 90 for 3-5 (or 6 or 7...) games at a top level may be asking a bit much. That means Lichaj, Ream, Chandler, Spector and Gonzalez are going to have to make some serious strides. There is potential there...but it is all very raw.

[MeanGreenHoops]

Agudelo, Ream, Burnbury and Omar Gonzalez need to get their asses overseas before the next Cup...they've potential, but playing MLS is stunting their development.

I don't agree with you there and assume you think MLS is garbage because of this comment. Who would you consider the best players on the US team. I'd say Donovan, Dempsey and Howard. All 3 started and played in MLS several years. Then you have some guys who go to Europe and do nothing but sit the bench. There are plenty of examples of guys who didn't play in MLS that are good too.

Point being, the main thing is guys need to play. After that they need to work on their game, but most of all they need to have the ability. I'd agree that going against the best makes you better faster, but only if you have the ability to keep up and get better.

Edited June 14, 2011 by MeanGreenHoops

[Mean Green Matt]

GOAL CANADA!

Canada up 1-0 on Panama. If this scoreline stands, the USA wins the group with a win vs. Guadaloupe.

30 minutes left.

[Mean Green Matt]

Final: Canada 1-1 Panama

Panama scored in stoppage time to clinch the group. So...win or tie, the USA will face Jamaica in the quarterfinals, lose and we are out.

[Mean Green Matt]

USA 1-0 Guadaloupe

Underwhelming, but I guess it will do...

Here is the knockout bracket:

Honduras

Costa Rica

Mexico

Guatemala

USA

Jamaica

Panama

El Salvador

[Censored by Laurie]

I don't agree with you there and assume you think MLS is garbage because of this comment. Who would you consider the best players on the US team. I'd say Donovan, Dempsey and Howard. All 3 started and played in MLS several years. Then you have some guys who go to Europe and do nothing but sit the bench. There are plenty of examples of guys who didn't play in MLS that are good too.

Point being, the main thing is guys need to play. After that they need to work on their game, but most of all they need to have the ability. I'd agree that going against the best makes you better faster, but only if you have the ability to keep up and get better.

MLS is a joke, at best, the 6th best place to play soccer and develop talent in the world, behind England, Spain, Italy, France and Germany...figure in The Netherlands, Brazil, Portugal and the Scandinavian nations and that 6th best may be very generous.

Dempsey was a nice part until he went international...now he's gained form and more importantly confidence buy finding success in the Premiership. Donovan struggled in Germany, but was good in his short tour in the Premiership...had he the ambition to stay with the refining his craft he'd be the greatest American footballer ever...he chose personal happiness instead, and I'd be the last to fault him, but it hasn't made him any better on the pitch. Howard has improved significantly with his time in England.

I'm not saying sitting in Europe is better than playing stateside. I am saying being given an opportunity internationally...and then more importantly making the most of it, like Dempsey...is better for one's game than playing MLS. Take Michael Bradley...on loan from Germany with Aston Villa in the Premiership, but only earned 3 starts...the Premiership is better than the Bundesliga, but if he can't find regular starts in England, I'd much prefer he find time elsewhere...but to say staying with Real Salt Lake is better than competing at Aston Villa is ridiculous. If Villa won't play him...yes, move on...but making it internationally can improve one's game significantly, and the kids I mentioned need to find a way to at least try to carve PT in Englad or Spain or Germany.

Yes they need to play...but it isnt coincidence the top players (save Donovan) play overseas

[MeanGreenHoops]

MLS is a joke, at best, the 6th best place to play soccer and develop talent in the world, behind England, Spain, Italy, France and Germany...figure in The Netherlands, Brazil, Portugal and the Scandinavian nations and that 6th best may be very generous.

Dempsey was a nice part until he went international...now he's gained form and more importantly confidence buy finding success in the Premiership. Donovan struggled in Germany, but was good in his short tour in the Premiership...had he the ambition to stay with the refining his craft he'd be the greatest American footballer ever...he chose personal happiness instead, and I'd be the last to fault him, but it hasn't made him any better on the pitch. Howard has improved significantly with his time in England.

I'm not saying sitting in Europe is better than playing stateside. I am saying being given an opportunity internationally...and then more importantly making the most of it, like Dempsey...is better for one's game than playing MLS. Take Michael Bradley...on loan from Germany with Aston Villa in the Premiership, but only earned 3 starts...the Premiership is better than the Bundesliga, but if he can't find regular starts in England, I'd much prefer he find time elsewhere...but to say staying with Real Salt Lake is better than competing at Aston Villa is ridiculous. If Villa won't play him...yes, move on...but making it internationally can improve one's game significantly, and the kids I mentioned need to find a way to at least try to carve PT in Englad or Spain or Germany.

Yes they need to play...but it isnt coincidence the top players (save Donovan) play overseas

I think we are agreeing except for MLS being a joke. TO say it's behind all the best leagues in Europe does not make it a joke. Give it another 15 years and it will move up. Well maybe it won't because soccer fans here don't support it becuase they have their nose in the air about it becuase it ain't the EPL.

[KRAM1]

Well, sports fans, another terrible outing by this U.S. squad...they beat a lowly squad on a prayer shot by Altidore early in the game and that's IT! The U.S. should...SHOULD being the operative word here...have won by at least 4 or 5 to ZIP! This is not good and bodes for a less than wonderful end to the Gold Cup for the U.S. I cannot figure this squad out. They seem to have no heart...no enthusiasm for the game, and seem to barley even care. I think a shake-up is needed in the line up...let's see who wants to play...I am not sure that many do...where is Donovan? Sure, he's had a nice pass and run or two, but he has pretty much been a non-factor. Dempsey, arguably our best player at the moment, cannot seem to connect even though he is working hard and the defense is adequate at best! WOW...just wow. has Bradley lost this team or is there really a team to lose? This hurts, and does not bode well for the near future. Who is coming on the be the mainstay of the U.S. team?

As for the MLS, it is a young league and is having a few growing pains, but where I fault it the most is in its lack of ability to develop players for the National Team. The quality of play in MLS seems to have dropped in the last couple of years...expansion perhaps a bit too soon thus diluting what player pool there is? If the MLS is to gain any sort of legitimacy as a pro league, it must start paying better salaries and finding ways to develop U.S. players. I know that's tough to do when there are not enough fans to support of a more financially stable league. So, we have to give the MLS time. I thought it would be much further along than it is at this time however.

Talk about playing in Europe is all well and good, but there are not enough U.S. players good enough to play overseas with any regularity at this time. That is a major problem for the U.S. Perhaps there is a group of U-17's and a few U-19's coming up that will change the fortunes of this team in a year or two, but most "promising stars" we have all come to know in the last few years have really not developed into solid international quality players. Is that coaching? Is that the development program? What the heck is it? Perhaps it is the "Donovan syndrome" at play with U.S. players. Not hungry enough to do what it takes to develop to the fullest like European players are willing to do...and Mexican and South American, etc. Perhaps U.S. players are just not hungry enough. IN Europe and in S.A. we see soccer being played and seen as a "way out" for many and a "way up". The sport has been and continues to be a "blue collar" sport embraced by the fans for the beautiful sport that it is...in the U.S. soccer is played more by "middle, upper-middle and "well-to-do" kids as an alternative to football, baseball, basketball, etc. It is dominated by select team programs and colleges who generally recruit only through the select teams...not the high school or public programs. So, I ask...is this a situation that has helped bring the U.S. squad and soccer player development in the U.S. to the position it is today? If not a major cause, is it partly to blame? I don't know. I have been involved in the select side of youth soccer for years...Club President, team manager, referee, etc., etc. Our son was recruited to play college soccer not because he was an all district goalkeeper for his HS, but because he was the goalkeeper for a very good select team playing in the highest competitive league in the north Texas area at the time. Not one recruiter ever came to one of his HS games, but several came to select tournaments that we played in during the years beginning at about age 14. I now help recruit for a college and I attend Dallas Cup, and a couple of local Showcase tournaments each year. In the 10+ years I have been doing this I have attended ONE high school game to look at a player. Maybe that needs to change id the U.S. is to ever become a year in and year out top international squad.

I don't really know, but maybe it's worth pondering. The state of the U.S. squad right now is very poor. Just watch the effort put forth in the Gold Cup against very inferior international squads and you will know in a few seconds how poorly this squad is playing. Is it time to re-evaluate Bradley? maybe 4 years is about all a U.S. team coach can handle. You will recall that Arena did not fare as well in his second term as he did in the first...this is Bradley's second term. I am beginning to wonder if it is one term to many?

Well, here comes the quarterfinals...maybe Dempsey and company will come out of their funk now that it is the knock-out round. Thoughts?

[Mean Green Matt]

At this point I think we just have to hope we keep winning games and not get caught up in the scoreline. Yes, we should have beaten Guadaloupe by a lot, but at least for the purposes of the Gold Cup a 1-0 win got us the same thing as a 5-0 win. With Jamaica, El Salvador, and Panama (Revenge???) being the other teams on our half of the bracket, I have to believe we will find some way to make it to Pasadena. Beating Mexico will be another animal though, as they seem to be in pretty good form, although I think they had an easier group...

Jamaica has unbelievable speed though, and if they manage to control the pace, we are in big trouble.

[Army of Dad]

At this point I think we just have to hope we keep winning games and not get caught up in the scoreline. Yes, we should have beaten Guadaloupe by a lot, but at least for the purposes of the Gold Cup a 1-0 win got us the same thing as a 5-0 win. With Jamaica, El Salvador, and Panama (Revenge???) being the other teams on our half of the bracket, I have to believe we will find some way to make it to Pasadena. Beating Mexico will be another animal though, as they seem to be in pretty good form, although I think they had an easier group...

Jamaica has unbelievable speed though, and if they manage to control the pace, we are in big trouble.

Like a bunch of mini hulks from the doping?

[H-towngreen]

Bob Bradley must go. This team has underperformed for to long. Look at how our team comes out to play every first half. The blame lies directly in the lap of the coach.

[Green Mean]

I'd love to see the MLS has a high tier league like anybody else but it that is some terrible brand of soccer being played. Obviously it has gotten better compared to what it was say 10-15 years ago but they're light years away of even being considered in the same galaxy as the other leagues. I just don't see soccer in the U.S. ever competing with the rest of the world...they may have a national team or two make some noise but it will take say a "Miracle on Ice" type situation for them to do anything remotely big in the soccer arena.

[Travis]

I just saw a recap of the game last night, wow that was frustrating.

As for my Bocanegra comment.... For the record, Bocanegra is actually my favorite player on the team. I really like what he has done, but I do think he needs to take some ownership to the D that has just been awful. He is the captain and the one who should be leading this defense much better than it actually has been. Instead, the D depends on Howard to get their ass in gear and most of the time it seems like they aren't even listening to him. I still think of the last goal by Ghana and how he was right there alongside him and just seemed completely gassed and unable to defend. Sad day.

[Censored by Laurie]

Talk about playing in Europe is all well and good, but there are not enough U.S. players good enough to play overseas with any regularity at this time.

Disagree...and I'll sight Timothy Chandler as my defense. He has 1 international cap, on for Spector second half of the 1-1 draw with Argentina, yet he was seeing significant time for a top half Bundesliga side in Nurnberg...including starting the last 11 games of the season, netting a goal and 2 assists.

Now, I imagine he's penciled in as a starter at 21 years old in the Bundesliga...I promise you Champions' League team managers have taken notice. This doesn't happen even if he starts every game for whoever ends up winning the MLS Cup.

If this can happen to a guy who has managed just 1 international appearance, there is no reason guys like Agudelo or Ream can't get on internationally.

[Mean Green Matt]

First two quarterfinals:

Honduras 1-1 Costa Rica (Honduras wins 4-2 on penalties)

Mexico 2-1 Guatemala (Mexico looked beatable for the first time, which is good news for the USA)

Todays games:

USA vs. Jamaica (starts in about an hour on Fox Soccer Channel)

Panama vs. El Salvador

GO USA!!!

[THOR]

well deserved victory...could have been 4 or 5 - 0...continue to improve!

time for some spanish language watching now to find out their opponent!

[Mean Green Matt]

Heck of a game between Panama and El Salvador...I'm still not sure the equalizer for Panama actually crossed the entire goal line, but we will never know. I am glad the USA will have the rematch with Panama, not only to avenge the loss, but I think it will be easier for them to "get up" for the game than if it had been El Salvador. Anyways, here are the final four. The Semifinals will take place at Reliant Stadium in Houston on Wednesday.

Mexico vs. Honduras

United States vs. Panama

Go USA!

[KRAM1]

Nice win by the US and now a chance to revenge that terrible game and loss to panama earlier in the tournament. I thought Bradley's move to keep Donovan on the bench to start the game (for whatever reason) was excellent. The guy has not played well and has played with little to no energy/enthusiasm .... until he came off the bench against Jamaica and started to make things happen for the US. Nice move Bradley...welcome back Landon. I hope you stay awhile...

USA...USA...USA! Beat Panama!

[Army of Dad]

Heck of a game between Panama and El Salvador...I'm still not sure the equalizer for Panama actually crossed the entire goal line, but we will never know. I am glad the USA will have the rematch with Panama, not only to avenge the loss, but I think it will be easier for them to "get up" for the game than if it had been El Salvador. Anyways, here are the final four. The Semifinals will take place at Reliant Stadium in Houston on Wednesday.

Mexico vs. Honduras

United States vs. Panama

Go USA!

I saw a Univision replay that used a similar technology to ESPN's and that showed the ball in the goal. Additionally with the buildup to that play being so close to the goal line the AR shoudl have been in an excellent position on that call.

[Mean Green Matt]

I saw a Univision replay that used a similar technology to ESPN's and that showed the ball in the goal. Additionally with the buildup to that play being so close to the goal line the AR shoudl have been in an excellent position on that call.

I was waiting for them to show that angle of it, but I must have just missed it.

[Mean Green Matt]

Altidore is getting an MRI on his hamstring on Tuesday...his status for Wednesday is obviously unknown at this point. US Soccer isn't saying anything either way, but I highly doubt he will be available until at least the Final in Pasadena.