The 5 Best Players In Unt Basketball History

[Cooley]

Some of us old timers will argue that a man named John Savage should be on that list. John was from Detroit, Texas and played at North Texas from 1960-61 through 1963-64. In those days Freshmen were not eligible for varsity competition so he only got three years to compile his statistics. At that time the old Missouri Valley Conference was as good as any in the country. Cincinatti won two national championships and lost a third one in overtime during that period. John was a great player on some bad teams. One year he was selected as All Missouri Valley from a team that won only two games all season. John was selected as All - MVC for all three of the years that he played. It is hard to compare eras but he would have been outstanding in any era. I was sure glad that I got to see him play.

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[Huff]

Some of us old timers will argue that a man named John Savage should be on that list. John was from Detroit, Texas and played at North Texas from 1960-61 through 1963-64. In those days Freshmen were not eligible for varsity competition so he only got three years to compile his statistics. At that time the old Missouri Valley Conference was as good as any in the country. Cincinatti won two national championships and lost a third one in overtime during that period. John was a great player on some bad teams. One year he was selected as All Missouri Valley from a team that won only two games all season. John was selected as All - MVC for all three of the years that he played. It is hard to compare eras but he would have been outstanding in any era. I was sure glad that I got to see him play.

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[UNTFan23]

Cool article. I wonder if some of the criteria is based on player stats generated after the player left North Texas and went into one of the pro leagues. Josh White deserves some serious consideration for this top 5 listing and both he & Tristan should be heavy favorites if the list was a top 10.

[UNTLifer]

What's with the reference to future recruiting and the name "Kenneth?"

[Mean Green 93-98]

What's with the reference to future recruiting and the name "Kenneth?"

Since our best players have been Kenneths, future Kenneths are bound to do well at UNT.

[Roadruner]

1. Kenneth Lyons

2. John Love

3. Joe Hamilton

4. Crest Whitiker

5. Lee Winfield

[GrandGreen]

That list lost most of it creditability with Kenneth Williams as the best player, was not even the best player on his team. Obviously a good rebounder but benefited from a fast paced lot of shots offense and was not a scorer. Leroy Winfield as stated had the best pro career but he was a 6'2 interior player for NT and although he could jump out of the gym was never the best player or go to guy on his team.

Not going to include Savage, Mudd are others I am even too young to have seen; but in my mind the two best players at NT were Lyons and Hamilton. Hamilton was the best player as he averaged over 20 points a game and led arguably the best team ever at NT against the best competition. Lyons has all the records and as a four year starter had the best NT career. Behind those two there are a lot that could be in the top 5 but none really belong in the same category with Lyons and Hamilton.

1. Joe Hamilton

2. Kenneth Lyons

3. Chris Davis

4. Jessie Ratliff

5 Crest Whitaker

Others that are close in no particular order:

Leroy Winfield

Al Shumate

Tristan Thompson

Fred Mitchell

Melvin Davis

Carl Jones

Jon Manning

Ronnie Morgan

Jon Horracks

Willie Davis

Neil Adams

Adam Smith

Terry Bailey

Kenneth Williams

Josh White

Bobby Iverson

[wardly]

Some of us old timers will argue that a man named John Savage should be on that list. John was from Detroit, Texas and played at North Texas from 1960-61 through 1963-64. In those days Freshmen were not eligible for varsity competition so he only got three years to compile his statistics. At that time the old Missouri Valley Conference was as good as any in the country. Cincinatti won two national championships and lost a third one in overtime during that period. John was a great player on some bad teams. One year he was selected as All Missouri Valley from a team that won only two games all season. John was selected as All - MVC for all three of the years that he played. It is hard to compare eras but he would have been outstanding in any era. I was sure glad that I got to see him play.

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plus one. it was great seeing him play in mem's gym. he got better each year.

[UNT90]

That list lost most of it creditability with Kenneth Williams as the best player, was not even the best player on his team. Obviously a good rebounder but benefited from a fast paced lot of shots offense and was not a scorer. Leroy Winfield as stated had the best pro career but he was a 6'2 interior player for NT and although he could jump out of the gym was never the best player or go to guy on his team.

Not going to include Savage, Mudd are others I am even too young to have seen; but in my mind the two best players at NT were Lyons and Hamilton. Hamilton was the best player as he averaged over 20 points a game and led arguably the best team ever at NT against the best competition. Lyons has all the records and as a four year starter had the best NT career. Behind those two there are a lot that could be in the top 5 but none really belong in the same category with Lyons and Hamilton.

1. Joe Hamilton

2. Kenneth Lyons

3. Chris Davis

4. Jessie Ratliff

5 Crest Whitaker

Others that are close in no particular order:

Leroy Winfield

Al Shumate

Tritan Thomas

Fred Mitchell

Melvin Davis

Carl Jones

Jon Manning

Ronnie Morgan

Jon Horracks

Willie Davis

Neil Adams

Adam Smith

Terry Bailey

Kenneth Williams

Josh White

Bobby Iverson

Did you forget about Tony Worell?

[Cowtown]

Jesse Ratliff needs to be in the top 5

#3 all time scoring

#3 all time rebounding

he was a freakin beast

[SUMG]

I agree that Ratliff was great....very underrated.

This has nothing to do with the top 5....but just pointing out that this guy should be in our NT H of Fame.....Pat Hicks. All time assists leader. Should be in the Hall, IMHO.

[wardly]

Did you forget about Tony Worell?

even though you never saw john savage play, no list is complete without his inclusion. i never saw joe louis box, but still know he was a great fighter. just an old mans opinion, plus "big john" is in unt basketball hall of fame.

[GrandGreen]

Did you forget about Tony Worell?

No, I rate him a notch below; although he and Deon Hunter would be close from NT's first NCAA team. Worrell was a good outside shooter and had a great senior year His career to me was kind of like Calvin Watson's. He was a good player who got better every year.

[UNT90]

No, I rate him a notch below; although he and Deon Hunter would be close from NT's first NCAA team. Worrell was a good outside shooter and had a great senior year His career to me was kind of like Calvin Watson's. He was a good player who got better every year.

I would disagree. The star player on one of only three NCAA tournament teams (and a member of the UNT Hall of Fame) should be on any list (maybe not top 5, but absolutely in the top 15).

He was the straw that stirred that drink.

[GrandGreen]

I would disagree. The star player on one of only three NCAA tournament teams (and a member of the UNT Hall of Fame) should be on any list (maybe not top 5, but absolutely in the top 15).

He was the straw that stirred that drink.

that is called a difference of opinion. Actually that was a fairly balanced team with Robertson, Worrell, Hunter and Morgan. I doubt if NT would have been close to a champion without any of them. Worrell was the leading scorer but to me it takes more than one year of play to be on an all time NT team. He certainly could be included in a top 20 without much argument but he did have a very off game in the NCAA tournament. You could just as easily put in Hunter, Kenan Dubose, Ep McDaniel, George King, Odufuwa, Calvin Watson, Pat Hicks, Donnel Hayden, Lister, McMillian, Weasel Johnson ,etc,. I am basing this strictly on memory if I went back and checked all the records, a slightly different list might emerge. As I stated I think Lyons and Hamilton are the best I've seen and there are a relatively large number that are close after those two. Inclusion in the NT HOF holds little sway to me, there are many and I am not including Worrell who should not be close to that honor as well as many who have not been added that certainly should have a la Walter Chapman.

[Censored by Laurie]

Somewhere, Michael Sturns is pissed.

[forevereagle]

[Harry]

Did you forget about Tony Worell?

Every time I bite into a crappy chicken tender I think about my Tony! Old timers will know of what I am speaking!

[Ibleedgreen]

Joe Hamilton has to be close to the top of the list. He was absolutely amazing to watch. Does anyone know if he is still around? If he is not in the UNT Hall of Fame, it is a travesty.

[GrayEagle]

While there haven't been any greats pass through the basketball program there have been a ton of very goods. In my opinion the two best have been Kenneth Lyons and Joe Hamilton. A close third for me would be John Savage. From there, you could put about two dozen names on a dart board and do well in your selection regardless of which ones it landed on. But, from a personal standpoint, my two favorites would be Jesse Ratliff and Chris Davis because of what they meant to their respective teams. Bobby Iverson and Jim Mudd would be extremely close runnersup.

[greenminer]

A new thread about top-5 nicknames could be fun, too.

[GrayEagle]

The thread is titled the five best players in North Texas history; not the most productive or with the longest tenure.

[Graddean]

John Savage has to be considered. He was all conference when the Missouri Valley Conference was called the Valley of Death because of the quality of its teams.