Breaking News On The Basketball Front

oldschoollefty · April 12, 2011

Many thanks...RV!!! Maybe you've been reading my JJ salary rants on the BB board. Thanks to you, UNT administration, and the BOR for "PONYING UP" the "BUCKS" for the UNT athletic staff that has consistently produced for the past several years. Now all the other coaches know that if UNT becomes a "Winner" in their particular disciplines then they'll be duly compensated for their successful, and winning efforts at UNT.

Even though UNT has renegotiated JJ (and I assume his staff's) compensation before, UNT has now done what is necessary to show all parties UNT's commitment to their success. When the next school comes calling, and they will, UNT will be able to say the University has put it's best foot forward to retain our current staff.

I almost gave you a -1 for the "ponying up" but the overall tone of your post is very good so that offset your faux pas. :lol:

Army of Dad · April 12, 2011

Just looking at base salaries:

Johnny Jones (UNT) - $450,000 $280,00
Isiah Thomas (FIU) - $258,000
Ken McDonald (WKU) - $250,000 (after $100,000 pay cut in new contract, ouch ) *unless I misunderstood I think $250 is his new base*
Ronnie Arrow (USA) - ~$210,000 (can't find exact number)
Bob Marlin (ULL)- ~$200,000 (can't find exact number)
Steve Shields (UALR) - $183,843
Mike Jarvis (FAU) - $175,000
Kermit Davis (MTSU) - $160,480
John Brady (ASU) - $131,000
Keith Richard (ULM) - (can't find it)
Don Maestri (Troy) - (can't find it)

Of Note:
Steve Fisher (SDSU) - $258,620
Brad Stevens (Butler) - $434,382
Shaka Smart (VCU) - $418,000
Brooks Thompson (UTSA) - $126,740
Stew Morrill (Utah State) - $551,444

Fixed, Per Vito.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Army of Dad

GrandGreen · April 12, 2011

Fixed, Per Vito.

Well, there is a great difference between a $280k and $450K base. Noticed that Vito has changed his original blog to reflect the revised numbers. I guess you would have to compare the two contracts to really know what has happened. I do like that the assistants are reported to be getting a needed boost but I still do not understand a seven year contract. A raise to $450K base certainly would have signaled NT is going all in on basketball with by far the highest salary in the Belt; not sure what this accomplishes for NT. It certainly is not going to keep anyone serious from going after Jones and it greatly hampers NT if they ever want to make a change. I guess it does put Jones in line with the top compensation in the Belt It also allows more room for future contracts if merited.

If anyone has any ideas why a seven year contract is necessary, please elaborate. Basically, one of two things can occur. Jones continues to build the program and the contract is renegotiated again years before the end of this agreement and the length of the prior contract is moot other than a bad presidence has been established with the ultra-long terms. The other outcome, is that the program is stagnant or worse goes south, leaving NT with limited and costly alternates if they want to change directions.

Edited April 12, 2011 by GrandGreen

Army of Dad · April 12, 2011

Well, there is a great difference between a $280k and $450K base. Noticed that Vito has changed his original blog to reflect the revised numbers. I guess you would have to compare the two contracts to really know what has happened. I do like that the assistants are reported to be getting a needed boost but I still do not understand a seven year contract. A raise to $450K base certainly would have signaled NT is going all in on basketball with by far the highest salary in the Belt; not sure what this accomplishes for NT. It certainly is not going to keep anyone serious from going after Jones and it greatly hampers NT if they ever want to make a change. I guess it does put Jones in line with the top compensation in the Belt It also allows more room for future contracts if merited.

If anyone has any ideas why a seven year contract is necessary, please elaborate. Basically, one of two things can occur. Jones continues to build the program and the contract is renegotiated again years before the end of this agreement and the length of the prior contract is moot other than a bad presidence has been established with the ultra-long terms. The other outcome, is that the program is stagnant or worse goes south, leaving NT with limited and costly alternates if they want to change directions.

Well he certainly has proven over his time at UNT to be a worthwhile investment. the longer the term the more a buyout would be, but this cuts both ways. IF LSU decides to call him and throw gobs of money at him the buyout he pays us increases. Also, buy committing for seven years UNT shows him some love and maybe he and his family just decide that they love Denton too much to leave and at this point his leaving is for more likely than his teams going into the tank.

Basically, he has earned this contract and the extra security of a seven year deal. I have no problems with it (something that I am sure will help RV sleep well at night) :lol:

UNTMike81 · April 12, 2011

Old School Lefty...Your forgiveness is appreciated!! I'll try my best to cut down on the faux pas!! Some question the up tic in salary and 7 yr. extension. In my mind this lets future recruits and their families know that JJ and UNT are committed to UNT's BB program and that JJ won't be going anywhere. JJ's big obstetrical now will be recruiting against powerhouse BCS type D1 schools. I'm please that JJ's new extension will be a way JJ can show recruits UNT is building a special program with good facilities. Now is the time they should come on board and be a part of the program's rise to national prominence.

Edited April 12, 2011 by UNTMike81

untbowler · April 12, 2011

no problem with the raise for JJ and staff but in return I do expect better .500 record in Sun Belt Play and not getting beat by 20 at SHSU.

gruu · April 13, 2011

no problem with the raise for JJ and staff but in return I do expect better .500 record in Sun Belt Play and not getting beat by 20 at SHSU.

Agree... GMG

GrandGreen · April 13, 2011

Well he certainly has proven over his time at UNT to be a worthwhile investment. the longer the term the more a buyout would be, but this cuts both ways. IF LSU decides to call him and throw gobs of money at him the buyout he pays us increases. Also, buy committing for seven years UNT shows him some love and maybe he and his family just decide that they love Denton too much to leave and at this point his leaving is for more likely than his teams going into the tank.

Basically, he has earned this contract and the extra security of a seven year deal. I have no problems with it (something that I am sure will help RV sleep well at night)

Not sure why RV should sleep any better, he has just tied the school to an unnecessary long term contract that Jones can walk out of at will. Not sure how you know that there are buyouts involved unless you have seen the contract. I doubt there is any significant penalties involved. Showing love may be great but college sports is a business and there is no reason to obligate NT for years. Even if JJ teams to continue to do well, I see little benefit in a contract over three years.

Army of Dad · April 13, 2011

Not sure why RV should sleep any better, he has just tied the school to an unnecessary long term contract that Jones can walk out of at will. Not sure how you know that there are buyouts involved unless you have seen the contract. I doubt there is any significant penalties involved. Showing love may be great but college sports is a business and there is no reason to obligate NT for years. Even if JJ teams to continue to do well, I see little benefit in a contract over three years.

The RV line was meant that he will sleep better with my approval.

You simply do not do three year deals with coaches in D1, unless you don't want them to stick around. You doubt there are significant penalties (and just what the heck would those be, flogging and ripping off his jacket sleeves?), but the longer the contract and the higher the pay the higher the buyout for both parties. Just like the new WBB coach has to pay her former employer 100k, JJ will have to pay UNT if he ever leaves.

I get that you don't like the deal and I would hate it if it were his first one here, or even his first extension, but it isn't and I think it is fair market value for JJ.

Daddy Dumpsalot · April 13, 2011

DRC

I think a contract of this length is a bad idea. Hopefully, the AD was smart enough to provide a way out if performance starts to suffer. And I would say that last season's performance was pretty terrible...we cannot blow our regular season conference games in hopes we can just make it up at the tournament.

MeanGreenTexan · April 13, 2011

Not sure why RV should sleep any better, he has just tied the school to an unnecessary long term contract that Jones can walk out of at will. Not sure how you know that there are buyouts involved unless you have seen the contract. I doubt there is any significant penalties involved. Showing love may be great but college sports is a business and there is no reason to obligate NT for years. Even if JJ teams to continue to do well, I see little benefit in a contract over three years.

Put yourself in JJ's shoes.

You arrived in 2001 to rebuild the Trilli mess, and slowly put together a pretty solid winning program that the entire school can be proud of. You just got finished pulling in quite possibly the best recruiting class this school has seen (including Mitchell). Your peers have less to show for their products than you do and are making more money than you, and have longer job security.

UNT offers you a 3 year deal, which is a shorter term than some of your inferior peers, for $X (x= comparable to your peers pay). Would this indicate to you that the University is looking out for you? I believe I would start getting my resume ready.

Or, UNT offers you a 7 year deal for $X. This would indicate to me: "Hey, we believe in you and think you're better than your inferior peers. We want you around for a very long time. And oh, by the way, if you meet X+Y+Z, you'll get even more money!"

Business-wise, this makes perfect sense. You must pay to keep your top talent. I would say the same for coach Hedlund.

At this point, the probability of JJ getting picked off by a bigger school is much greater than the probability of JJ flopping and the AD needing to buy out his contract.

UNT90 · April 13, 2011

I think 5 years, not 7, would have been more prudent, but not that big of a deal in the overall scheme of things.

Green Jackal · April 13, 2011

If we sign him to a 3 year contract we would need to give him an extension after the 2nd year or it would have a negative impact on recruiting. Would we really consider getting rid of JJ within the next 2 years even if this team started to struggle with all of the new players coming in? JJ has already showed that he can put together a consistent winning program at UNT, which few before him have ever done. Certainly there are some risks in signing a 7 year deal, but based on what he has accomplished, I am ok with this.

Censored by Laurie · April 13, 2011

Have we considered an "Anti-Hall of Fame Forum"?

Because I have a nomination...

Eagle1855 · April 13, 2011

Oh great. When was the last time we hired a coach with true division one experience, upgraded our facilities, or made a serious contract extension offer to lock down a coach that has taken a program to unprecedented success and elevated the expectations of its fans?

Wake me up when this Athletic Department gets serious about being big time.

Green P1 · April 13, 2011

Oh great. When was the last time we hired a coach with true division one experience, upgraded our facilities, or made a serious contract extension offer to lock down a coach that has taken a program to unprecedented success and elevated the expectations of its fans?

Wake me up when this Athletic Department gets serious about being big time.

Who has this team played?

Just cause he's here now don't make him the best.

I'm tired of street ball... Where's the defense?

We need to be demanding an NCAA birth every year. Hell, we need to be demanding a 1st/2nd round win every other year.

Learn your history.

UNTMike81 · April 13, 2011

Daddy Dumpsalot...you weren't satisfied with this year's team performance, REALLY? Based on what this team accomplish with all the injuries. I think you've set the bar really high. I'm grateful this team accomplished what it did under the circumstances.

UNT Five&Dime · April 13, 2011

Have we considered an "Anti-Hall of Fame Forum"?

Because I have a nomination...

Don't the normal forums already qualify for that?

tylermeangreen · April 13, 2011

Who has this team played?

Just cause he's here now don't make him the best.

I'm tired of street ball... Where's the defense?

We need to be demanding an NCAA birth every year. Hell, we need to be demanding a 1st/2nd round win every other year.

Learn your history.

Green P1, don't know you but from reading your postings over a period of time I gather you are not having a particularly enjoyable "Mean Green Life".

Too bad - in our recent history (by using that terminology I am referring to the last 10 years or so although I personally go back 41 years with this university) we have come a long way, baby!

Quoner · April 13, 2011

Green P1, don't know you but from reading your postings over a period of time I gather you are not having a particularly enjoyable "Mean Green Life".

Too bad - in our recent history (by using that terminology I am referring to the last 10 years or so although I personally go back 41 years with this university) we have come a long way, baby!

How derp could a hurr derp hurr if a hurr derp could derp hurr?