Metroplex Basketball Ante Up

GrandGreen · March 25, 2011

NT has been without question the best BB in the Metroplex for the last five years. However, the price of poker is going up. UTA with a brand new arena and they have always been competitive playing on the stage. SMU has signed their best BB class in a long while and is always willing to throw money at sports. The one I fear may be the most likely to improve substantially and challenge for area superiority is TCU. They will start out as doormat but their basketball will have to improve being in a league that just sent eleven squads to the NCAA's.

With the class coming in NT should be able to strongly vie for the best in DFW, but it is going to be more difficult. In fact IMO NT is going to have to get significantly better to continue their position as king of Metroplex college basketball.

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drex · March 25, 2011

Buy season tickets to NT basketball, give to the Mean Green Club and quit worrying about what the other fellow is doing. TCU and basketball are an oxymoron and will be for the forseeable future. SMU will make a ripple, but no splash and UTA cannot be much of a factor as long as they are in the Soutland. At least UTA will schedule us.

MeanGreen61 · March 25, 2011

Who's the King of the Hill ? Easy, settle it head to head with a Metroplex tournament. I'm sure UTA and UNT would be for it. SMU and TCU need to man up and accept the challenge. :thumbsu:

Edited March 25, 2011 by MeanGreen61

MeanMag · March 26, 2011

Who's the King of the Hill ? Easy, settle it head to head with a Metroplex tournament. I'm sure UTA and UNT would be for it. SMU and TCU need to man up and accept the challenge.

Have a feeling TCU would be more on board than SMU at this point. There's probably more TCU fans that think this should happen than UNT fans. Maybe TCU would draw crowds to their basketball games if they were playing local teams every year.

GrandGreen · March 26, 2011

Buy season tickets to NT basketball, give to the Mean Green Club and quit worrying about what the other fellow is doing. TCU and basketball are an oxymoron and will be for the forseeable future. SMU will make a ripple, but no splash and UTA cannot be much of a factor as long as they are in the Soutland. At least UTA will schedule us.

Jeez, what I thought was an interesting subject is interpretated as worrying about NT basketball and certainly not worthy of discussion. I would imagine most fans like to check out the local competition. If you think TCU won't improve dramatically in the BE, SMU isn't improving, and UTA doesn't give NT fits already, than I guess the subject is of little interest to you; but keep worrying about who supports the program. I hope having season bb tickets for over 20 years gives me your permission to discuss NT basketball. If it does not, let me know.

Edited March 26, 2011 by GrandGreen

CMJ · March 26, 2011

TCU has a lot of potential with thew move to the BE, but I think they're more than likely gonna be the new Depaul.

HoopManX · March 27, 2011

I'd like to see it, but there has to be something in it for SMU/TCU, as they already play.

UNT90 · March 28, 2011

I'd like to see it, but there has to be something in it for SMU/TCU, as they already play.

I wouldn't want to waste our time playing inferior competition.

Besides, you guys apparently would bring less than 1000 fans to the game, and that's if we play at your place.

Man, Tony Mitchell must really be burning your a$$ for us to continue to be graced with your presence.

NT03 · March 28, 2011

I'd like to see it, but there has to be something in it for SMU/TCU, as they already play.

Maybe if we made it a 8 team tourney and brought in teams like McMurry,Wayland Baptist,Dallas Christian & Paul Quinn ?

UNTLifer · March 28, 2011

I'd like to see it, but there has to be something in it for SMU/TCU, as they already play.

You mean you want more than an ass whippin'?

oldschoollefty · March 28, 2011

I'd like to see it, but there has to be something in it for SMU/TCU, as they already play.

You drive a hard bargain, sir but OK...

my wife will throw in a pan of her decadent double fudge chocolate chip brownies and I'll donate a box of Thin Mints Girl Scout cookies. :sword:

glick1980 · March 28, 2011

I used to want to play SMU and TCU but the fact is they would only hurt our RPI, so I don't really care anymore. They both suck and SMU plays the equivalent of 1A high school games OOC.

GrandGreen · March 28, 2011

This thread like most has taken a turn from being about NT keeping their metroplex best basketball program to playing SMU and TCU which as been discussed a lot. On the original subject, I think NT can maintain a lead for a while but it is going to be increasing tough with all three other programs taking major steps that will enhance their teams. With this years recruiting class, NT took a significant step to improve the program with not only signing a good class but with a focus on local players. Again, I think TCU will likely rapidly substantially improve their program, if their current coach doesn't have a much better year, look for his termination and a big dollar coach hired before they go to the BE. SMU much like NT has signed a great class with several local players. UTA will be interesting as they have a new arena which should upgrade their program but they do lose a big home court advantage leaving the stage. I really believe TCU, SMU and UTA will all get substantially better.

As for as playing the area privates in the oc, it should happen but probably won't. It is hard to argue against if you don't believe it; read some of our SMU friend's posts. Every team not just SMU plays enough patsies that scheduling each other should be welcome by the vast majority of fans. It is not like football were oc games are few and therefore more important. SMU only scheduled NT in football because they were a horrible program and wanted to play someone they could beat. Thankfully, I guess they don't view our basketball team the same way.

HoopManX · March 30, 2011

This thread like most has taken a turn from being about NT keeping their metroplex best basketball program to playing SMU and TCU which as been discussed a lot. On the original subject, I think NT can maintain a lead for a while but it is going to be increasing tough with all three other programs taking major steps that will enhance their teams. With this years recruiting class, NT took a significant step to improve the program with not only signing a good class but with a focus on local players. Again, I think TCU will likely rapidly substantially improve their program, if their current coach doesn't have a much better year, look for his termination and a big dollar coach hired before they go to the BE. SMU much like NT has signed a great class with several local players. UTA will be interesting as they have a new arena which should upgrade their program but they do lose a big home court advantage leaving the stage. I really believe TCU, SMU and UTA will all get substantially better.

As for as playing the area privates in the oc, it should happen but probably won't. It is hard to argue against if you don't believe it; read some of our SMU friend's posts. Every team not just SMU plays enough patsies that scheduling each other should be welcome by the vast majority of fans. It is not like football were oc games are few and therefore more important. SMU only scheduled NT in football because they were a horrible program and wanted to play someone they could beat. Thankfully, I guess they don't view our basketball team the same way.

SMU hoops is rapidly improving. We get both our '10 & '11 class eligible next year, as well as the two transfers The issue w/playing UNT in hoops is that it's regarded as a 'no win' for SMU. I was discussing this same topic w/a college coach the other day. He said that he felt AAU was the death of the crosstown rivalry nationally. Since all these kids play each other, there will always be those kids that feel slighted, play w/a chip on their shoulder. The team in the higher power conference gets screwed by getting into a backyard brawl etc. Maybe they get a slight RPI jump if they win, but since it's a less profile league, it's not a 'good' win on the resume. He went on to say that mid-teams don't want many '50/50' games on their schedule. They want to pay for sure fire Ws, and be in a position to slay Goliath 2 or 3 times, add in a good conference record etc.

FWIW, that's not my take, but I've heard it a few times, from guys at different schools, and thought it was interesting. I will say this, after profiling a bunch of areas/cities, specifically back east, there are many of these potential OOC 'rivalries' that have fallen dormant. Its not just SMU & UNT.

glick1980 · March 30, 2011

SMU hoops is rapidly improving. We get both our '10 & '11 class eligible next year, as well as the two transfers The issue w/playing UNT in hoops is that it's regarded as a 'no win' for SMU. I was discussing this same topic w/a college coach the other day. He said that he felt AAU was the death of the crosstown rivalry nationally. Since all these kids play each other, there will always be those kids that feel slighted, play w/a chip on their shoulder. The team in the higher power conference gets screwed by getting into a backyard brawl etc. Maybe they get a slight RPI jump if they win, but since it's a less profile league, it's not a 'good' win on the resume. He went on to say that mid-teams don't want many '50/50' games on their schedule. They want to pay for sure fire Ws, and be in a position to slay Goliath 2 or 3 times, add in a good conference record etc.

FWIW, that's not my take, but I've heard it a few times, from guys at different schools, and thought it was interesting. I will say this, after profiling a bunch of areas/cities, specifically back east, there are many of these potential OOC 'rivalries' that have fallen dormant. Its not just SMU & UNT.

You are pretty far off there pal....You will never have a chance at an at large bid to the NCAA tournament playing 4-5 division 2 and 3 schools a year....Furthermore, if anyone has nothing to win from a UNT-SMU game it is UNT, our program is far ahead of SMU's and UNT's RPI has been about twice as high as SMU's has for years. The reason most UNT fans would like to see it is just to beat the pants off a group of pink polo shirt wearing fags.

UNTFan23 · March 30, 2011

SMU hoops is rapidly improving. We get both our '10 & '11 class eligible next year, as well as the two transfers The issue w/playing UNT in hoops is that it's regarded as a 'no win' for SMU. I was discussing this same topic w/a college coach the other day. He said that he felt AAU was the death of the crosstown rivalry nationally. Since all these kids play each other, there will always be those kids that feel slighted, play w/a chip on their shoulder. The team in the higher power conference gets screwed by getting into a backyard brawl etc. Maybe they get a slight RPI jump if they win, but since it's a less profile league, it's not a 'good' win on the resume. He went on to say that mid-teams don't want many '50/50' games on their schedule. They want to pay for sure fire Ws, and be in a position to slay Goliath 2 or 3 times, add in a good conference record etc.

FWIW, that's not my take, but I've heard it a few times, from guys at different schools, and thought it was interesting. I will say this, after profiling a bunch of areas/cities, specifically back east, there are many of these potential OOC 'rivalries' that have fallen dormant. Its not just SMU & UNT.

I think it's funny hearing you talk about RPI rankings when SMU finished at the bottom of CUSA (10th @ 207) in and North Texas finished at the top (2nd @ 133). Beating North Texas would count as a quality win if you were to play us but if you feel it's a no win scenario, by all means keep schedule more of the same teams like what you had on this year's schedule. Just don't complain about not getting an at-large NCAA bid because your OOC SOS is in the 250s (or higher ranking).

Edited March 30, 2011 by UNTFan23

GrandGreen · March 30, 2011

SMU hoops is rapidly improving. We get both our '10 & '11 class eligible next year, as well as the two transfers The issue w/playing UNT in hoops is that it's regarded as a 'no win' for SMU. I was discussing this same topic w/a college coach the other day. He said that he felt AAU was the death of the crosstown rivalry nationally. Since all these kids play each other, there will always be those kids that feel slighted, play w/a chip on their shoulder. The team in the higher power conference gets screwed by getting into a backyard brawl etc. Maybe they get a slight RPI jump if they win, but since it's a less profile league, it's not a 'good' win on the resume. He went on to say that mid-teams don't want many '50/50' games on their schedule. They want to pay for sure fire Ws, and be in a position to slay Goliath 2 or 3 times, add in a good conference record etc.

FWIW, that's not my take, but I've heard it a few times, from guys at different schools, and thought it was interesting. I will say this, after profiling a bunch of areas/cities, specifically back east, there are many of these potential OOC 'rivalries' that have fallen dormant. Its not just SMU & UNT.

I really don't agree, a SMU win over NT would be viewed as a big one for their program specially in light of their weak schedule. The fact that both teams are now recruiting the same local players makes a potential game even bigger. I do agree the scheduling philosophy you outlined is now prevalence for most programs. However the Belt is trying to mandate a much braver approach to improve the leagues standings. It appears to me that SMU's schedule is more to save your coaches job than advance the program. It is certainly not for the fans with one of the worst oc schedules in the nation.

As an aside, your coach took way to long to recognize what Magrum could do for SMU. He could have made NT a much better team this year.

HoopManX · March 31, 2011

You are pretty far off there pal....You will never have a chance at an at large bid to the NCAA tournament playing 4-5 division 2 and 3 schools a year....Furthermore, if anyone has nothing to win from a UNT-SMU game it is UNT, our program is far ahead of SMU's and UNT's RPI has been about twice as high as SMU's has for years. The reason most UNT fans would like to see it is just to beat the pants off a group of pink polo shirt wearing fags.

Where did I say anything about SMUs schedule or playing 4-5 division 2 or 3 schools a year? I didn't. None of the conversations I referenced had anything to do w/SMU, other than them being a rapidly improving program. I understand why they scheduled that way this year, but it's not like it had my rubber stamp of approval. I'm one of the few that actually vented about the schedule, as it was being made, to the powers that be.

You may want to beat the pants off SMU in hoops, but to say you're far ahead, based on what's on everyones roster next year, is a farce.

HoopManX · March 31, 2011

I think it's funny hearing you talk about RPI rankings when SMU finished at the bottom of CUSA (10th @ 207) in and North Texas finished at the top (2nd @ 133). Beating North Texas would count as a quality win if you were to play us but if you feel it's a no win scenario, by all means keep schedule more of the same teams like what you had on this year's schedule. Just don't complain about not getting an at-large NCAA bid because your OOC SOS is in the 250s (or higher ranking).

I'm not against scheduling you guys, I just had input from some coaches(not SMU) as to why games like that aren't really happening anymore, which they aren't. Take it for what it's worth. Multiple coaches, none affiliated w/SMU, said it makes no sense for SMU or schools like SMU. FWIW, SMU's SOS and RPI will go up in the next few years. There was never any intent of making it perennially awful, once they had the firepower to compete vs a better grouping of teams. We'll see

HoopManX · March 31, 2011

I really don't agree, a SMU win over NT would be viewed as a big one for their program specially in light of their weak schedule. The fact that both teams are now recruiting the same local players makes a potential game even bigger. I do agree the scheduling philosophy you outlined is now prevalence for most programs. However the Belt is trying to mandate a much braver approach to improve the leagues standings. It appears to me that SMU's schedule is more to save your coaches job than advance the program. It is certainly not for the fans with one of the worst oc schedules in the nation.

As an aside, your coach took way to long to recognize what Magrum could do for SMU. He could have made NT a much better team this year.

No offense, but it would be regarded as a bad loss for SMU, far more than a good win. That's the reality of losing to a team in a less profile conference, unless they are a mid major that might as well be a high, see Memphis, Butler, Gonzaga etc. You guys can destroy SMUs schedule all day, and for good reason, but the goal needs to be more high mids and high majors. They're just going to dump the D2 type teams for low low majors anyway. Those are scheduled to be Ws, so they are going to schedule teams they can beat w/those dates. They aren't going to ditch sure fire Ws for a 50/50 backyard brawl type game.

GrandGreen · March 31, 2011

No offense, but it would be regarded as a bad loss for SMU, far more than a good win. That's the reality of losing to a team in a less profile conference, unless they are a mid major that might as well be a high, see Memphis, Butler, Gonzaga etc. You guys can destroy SMUs schedule all day, and for good reason, but the goal needs to be more high mids and high majors. They're just going to dump the D2 type teams for low low majors anyway. Those are scheduled to be Ws, so they are going to schedule teams they can beat w/those dates. They aren't going to ditch sure fire Ws for a 50/50 backyard brawl type game.

BS, no one yet believes that SMU is a good program and you are hanging way too much value on the CUSA conference. The Belt is bad but CUSA is not much better. If you disregard the fans, the rpi, and a post season bid you don't have to pay for; I guess SMU's scheduling makes sense. Frankly, at this point a NT loss to SMU would be worse for NT than a SMU loss to NT would be for SMU. NT gains nothing from your type of prospective by beating SMU and risks the mythical area best BB program title with a game against any metroplex rival. However, the fans would have a great game that would probably one of the highest attended contests for either school of the year., but those things I guess are of little importance

Edited March 31, 2011 by GrandGreen

glick1980 · March 31, 2011

Where did I say anything about SMUs schedule or playing 4-5 division 2 or 3 schools a year? I didn't. None of the conversations I referenced had anything to do w/SMU, other than them being a rapidly improving program. I understand why they scheduled that way this year, but it's not like it had my rubber stamp of approval. I'm one of the few that actually vented about the schedule, as it was being made, to the powers that be.

You may want to beat the pants off SMU in hoops, but to say you're far ahead, based on what's on everyones roster next year, is a farce.

I could really care less about your personal views of what is on either teams roster next year because most of them have never played a college basketball game. So until I see these guys compete and win against college opponents neither team should be acting like they are better next year. But based on the last 5 years, UNT is far ahead of where SMU is as a program. The fact is that SMU is 67-90 (.427 winning %) over the last 5 years, while UNT is 109-54 (.669 winning %). So you can keep thinking your team is better while I will take an extra 8+ wins a season. I know for the guys coming back to play for both teams, UNT is probably slightly ahead, and the recruits coming to both schools UNT is also slightly ahead, possibly far ahead with Tony Mitchell. But, I reserve judgement until they actually play a game.

untjim1995 · March 31, 2011

I'm going to throw my $.02 into this mess. Back when we hired JJ, we used to play the privates--because we were perceived to be an easy win to them. Once we got our hoops program going, though, those two teams ran away from us and, now UTA, fairly quickly. Look, I don't blame them at all. The DFW Media loves old SWC schools, so they have a huge advantage over us and UTA on that front. They have done this in football, as well. When did we play TCU alot in football? Back when Fran became their coach and they were needing to get wins. Once they started winning and moving their program up to a level that no one could have dreamed they would be at today, North Texas appears nowhere on their schedule, although Texas State or Northwestern State get to play them. SMU scheduled a two-game series with us in football in 2006, we beat them once and it cost them a bowl game. Yes, we got rescheduled for a possible long series with them--starting in 2014, conveniently long after their $2 million coach gets time to reconstruct their program. If June Jones leaves or SMU really dives back down again and we somehow become good again in football, who on here doesn't believe that this long series will get cancelled? Its just the nature of dealing with the two very rich, very well-covered private schools who are lucky to be the only schools in two big cities.

Look at what our men's hoops team ahs done without playing either of those teams. We have become a very good team and our recruiting has really picked up. Fortunately, we play in a league that we can win, even if it is perceived to be a down league. SMU, and especially TCU, have no chance at winning their league, IMO. CUSA, even though the league has dropped big-time since Calipari left Memphis, still has schools that support their teams and get better recurits than SMU ever will. Memphis, UH, and UTEP alone are ahead of them and will always have easier entrance requirements than SMU. TCU is about to enter the belly of the Beast. They will get an infusion of cash from being in that league, and I do think their recruiting will pick up, but that league is waaaaayyyy to tough for them for the foreseeable future. Finishing 2-18 or 4-16 in conference play each year will not help them at all. Now, lets assume for a moment that the SBC doesn't stay at the level of being at its worst in probably 20 years. We have WKU in the east that has a program that is traditionally very solid, while other schools like USA or UALR have been hit or miss for many years. Essentially, though, its been us and WKU for the last 5 years and who doesn't see that continuing, as long as we have a solid coach? We can make the NCAAs from our league each year--those two private schools to the south really can't say that, unless they really catch lightning in a bottle. Our way, athletically, is not going to involve SMU or TCU--its going to actually revolve around doing something crazy to most UNT fans--ignoring them. All we ever hear from RV or our coaches is that we should play them every year, but the funny thing is that you never hear the ADs at TCU or SMU say this about UNT. I will say this until the day I die, but we will know that we have reached the promised land, athletically speaking, when we hear those sentiments coming from DFW, and not from Denton. Keep playing UTA every year, leave the other two to play themselves and hope that their 80-year SWC relationship with the old guard Texas media will continue to hold them up high. For most of us, we realize that, unless TCU can keep it up in football, the chances of that happening in an evolving media world, are slim to none. Their fanbase is just not big enough to garner that kind of attention without winning big.

UNT90 · April 1, 2011

Win (in football) and keep winning (in Basketball) and none of this crap matters.

JJ > Do x 20. You keep your UNC reject (really, if you can't win there, why in the world would SMU think you could win at a tiny private school), and we will try to keep JJ.

And please, can we end a discussion about someone elses irrelevant basketball program on the NORTH TEXAS BASKETBALL BOARD?

greenminer · April 1, 2011

I don't mind an occasional metroplex discussion on the NT bball forum. We all share the same media market and have a hand in the same pool of recruits.