62% Want Obamacare Repealed

[UNTflyer]

Government really shouldn't be in the business of keeping safe roads and highways. The free market can take care of it.

Apparently, yes they can. The European Way is about to become the Texas Way.

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/drc/localnews/stories/DRC_I35E_0324.214432137.html

[UNTLifer]

Ans the cause would be..? Some would say corporate greed, and they would be wrong.

The problem is us. The nation as a whole lives a less healthy lifestyle. We smoke, we drink, we're fat, we get no exercise... we run to the doctor for a pill for every symptom we have.

And that, along with a few other factors like litigious attitudes and the abuse of emergency room visits, has driven costs to unsustainable levels. And, since people would rather pay $2000 a year in insurance rather than a $100 annual office visit and buy their own catastrophic healthcare coverage in case they get cancer or have a horrible car accident, all of these become drivers that send insurance premiums higher.

I have worked on a committee through my industry for the last 5 years to pass a bill that would make dues to health clubs for those that utilize the facilities tax deductible, yet it still remains bogged down in the process. I agree with what you say to a degree, but an increase of the nature my company took is not based solely on the factors above. Plus, I work for a facility associated with a healthcare system, so trust me when I say Obamacare is not the answer to our healthcare problems.

It is amazing that the public will provide preventative care for their homes, cars, etc..., but we won't darken the doors of a hospital until we show systems of a problem. Prevention would go a long way in disease managment, yet the public must be provided some sort of incentive to get up and move.

[The Fake Lonnie Finch]

Listen, everybody:

Here's the problem - health care is expensive.

Here's some of the problem's cause - we are a country that has fat poor people, fat middle class people, and fat rich people.

In other countries, poor people are skinny and starving. Here, they are on all sorts of programs that give them and their kids pretty much free food from dusk 'til dawn.

Here's another chunk of the problem - Unlike other reprobate societies, America has many different cultures. And, each has its own set of health issues. This isn't f'ing Mexico where 99.36% of the people are Mexican or f'ing Sweden where 99.93% of the people are Swedish. We have real f'ing diversity here, and that encompasses many diseases and propensity toward diseases that our many different and unique f'ing cultures have.

We are America! And, we already get free health care by going to the emergency room and sitting on our butts for several hours waiting in line. The fantasy of the Obama Health-bangers is that everyone will be able to get the same level of health care I can choose because I've made better choices in my life and can afford better coverage.

Well, it doesn't work that way. Plus, doctors expect to be paid a certain amount. To me, in order to solve the problem, everyone needs to be more friendly and charge less money - that means friendliness from doctors, insurers, and drug companies, and all of the same agreeing to take less money.

I had five stitches to close a wound on my left leg three years ago. Bill? $736.57. Really? Just to put five stitches in? It was kind of stupid. I was in the crisp, clean, specialty ER place in Frisco for a total of about 25 minutes.

The prices of little things like that are ridiculously high. We took our boy to the doctor once because he had a cough. The doctor saw us for about five minutes, and wrote a prescription. Bill? $120.00

Now, we have health insurance. But, what difference does it make? The insurer pays part of it, then we pay the rest. But, either way, it's too much.

The answer is not governmental, it's societal. From within, all humans involved in health care are going to have to voluntarily be more friendly and take less for simple, common health problems and procedures.

Oh...and, there has to be a state and federal tort reform that scales back the liability of doctors. Another parasite on this whole flower we call The American Health Care system that goes along with Greed and Profiteering is Plaintiffs Attorneys. They are helping the matter -17%. They suck just as bad as a $736.57 bill for a mere five stitches or a $120 bill for five minutes of a Doctor-god's time with your child.

Butterballs!

Edited March 28, 2011 by The Fake Lonnie Finch

[Censored by Laurie]

Listen, everybody:

Here's the problem - health care is expensive.

Here's some of the problem's cause - we are a country that has fat poor people, fat middle class people, and fat rich people.

In other countries, poor people are skinny and starving. Here, they are on all sorts of programs that give them and their kids pretty much free food from dusk 'til dawn.

Here's another chunk of the problem - Unlike other reprobate societies, America has many different cultures. And, each has its own set of health issues. This isn't f'ing Mexico where 99.36% of the people are Mexican or f'ing Sweden where 99.93% of the people are Swedish. We have real f'ing diversity here, and that encompasses many diseases and propensity toward diseases that our many different and unique f'ing cultures have.

We are America! And, we already get free health care by going to the emergency room and sitting on our butts for several hours waiting in line. The fantasy of the Obama Health-bangers is that everyone will be able to get the same level of health care I can choose because I've made better choices in my life and can afford better coverage.

Well, it doesn't work that way. Plus, doctors expect to be paid a certain amount. To me, in order to solve the problem, everyone needs to be more friendly and charge less money - that means friendliness from doctors, insurers, and drug companies, and all of the same agreeing to take less money.

I had five stitches to close a wound on my left leg three years ago. Bill? $736.57. Really? Just to put five stitches in? It was kind of stupid. I was in the crisp, clean, specialty ER place in Frisco for a total of about 25 minutes.

The prices of little things like that are ridiculously high. We took our boy to the doctor once because he had a cough. The doctor saw us for about five minutes, and wrote a prescription. Bill? $120.00

Now, we have health insurance. But, what difference does it make? The insurer pays part of it, then we pay the rest. But, either way, it's too much.

The answer is not governmental, it's societal. From within, all humans involved in health care are going to have to voluntarily be more friendly and take less for simple, common health problems and procedures.

Oh...and, there has to be a state and federal tort reform that scales back the liability of doctors. Another parasite on this whole flower we call The American Health Care system that goes along with Greed and Profiteering is Plaintiffs Attorneys. They are helping the matter -17%. They suck just as bad as a $736.57 bill for a mere five stitches or a $120 bill for five minutes of a Doctor-god's time with your child.

Butterballs!

Throw in a few more exclamation points, quotation marks and a "good grief" or two, and I'd swear this was written by KRAM.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Censored by Laurie

[Guest JohnDenver]

Throw in a few more exclamation points, quotation marks and a "good grief" or two, and I'd swear this was written by KRAM.

It is too complicated to find one solution. No doubt.

The price for your five stitches is so partly (mostly) so high because of the 'free emergency room'. People without insurance can show up at the county hospital and get seen by a team of doctors that will not/can not/should not thrown them out for not having insurance. Everything from in-grown toe nails to ruptured splines show up. My friend right after high school got jumped behind a grocery store and had his face bones broken to all hell. As an adult he is still riddled with the medical bills, but what is the back story? Oh yeh, he was dealing drugs and got the frak kicked out of him during a robbery. Someone had to save his life and it is 20 years later and the bills still aren't paid. That cost gets passed on to people that DO pay their bills. It really is that simple.

As far as doctors making too much money, I really don't agree at all. Some doctors bank, absolutely. A general family doctor is only making 140k a year and comes out of school with 30k undergrad bill (at 23 years old), 150k+ medical school bill (at 28 years old) and then *finally* gets their first ever job at the age of 33 years old when they finish their residency. By now they have easily 200k+ in debt (that they can't default on, btw) and have postponed their lives for their entire 20's. Throw on top of that they moved away for undergrad, moved away for medical school and moved away for residency. Not a very good life of constantly moving and working 80-100 hours a week. Their friends have kids, already make 100k a year in their jobs that they have had for 10 years, own a house and drive a nice car. 140k a year and paying off 200k debt AND likely finally trying to start a family and buy their first house. It is worse for women. They may be 34-40 years old before they can finally find the right guy to start a family.. at that point their reproductive years are on the decline and the odds for genetic mutations like DS/MS/whatever are rising every year.

For the life of me I don't see why people become doctors.

A software engineer can likely make 80k a year until they are well into their 60s. After that they are still viable and can make a good income until they retire.

A general surgeon, due to eye-sight problems and jittery hands, may only work until they are 55 and then go into a consulting role. So they have from the ages of 36-55 to make their money count.

They aren't getting life changing money. They aren't setting up future generations for wealth. They are having a nice lifestyle for the second half of their life, but pay for it on the front end.

I would rather go to engineering school and earnly slightly less but live a much happier lifestyle. But I digress.

Tort reform, I am mixed. There are obvious abuses and mishaps and patients should be compensated. However suing EVERYONE in the room or who saw paperwork of a surgery -- is insane. However, having a fat family sue a doctor because their fat father died on their operating table because of the weight of his fat chest on his lungs is absurd. Yet it happens daily. Even residents who are just training and (technically) have no responsibility in most of these cases get named on the lawsuits. They may come out of residency with a judgement against them, which only makes their already burdened life ... more burdened. Tort reform is good, but it needs to be targeted. States that have tort reform draw more talented doctors too.

Here are my steps:

Personal responsibility -- stop being fat. Stop having fat kids. If you are fat, expect to pay higher premiums, since you are in a big risk group.

Insure everyone, so only a segment of a population no longer covers everyone.

Have oversight to make sure best practices are being used in medicine.

Stop calling it Obamacare.

If you want to lower pay of doctors, completely subsidize medical school and residency. Education is expensive (personally and financially), you have to make it more inticing. The repuation of doctors is 89.4% wrong. Even Obama laid it on with the reputation that doctors make too much money: he said in his State of the Union that a surgeon makes 50k to amputate a leg. *Completely* false. A surgeon's portion of the bill for amputating a leg is $500. I would say 99% of leg amputations are for diabetics who don't maintain their health. They get a wound and it won't heal and their poor circulation then leads to them being in a wheelchair sans leg for the remainder of their life. The doctors would gladly not take the $500 if that person would step up, take care of themselves and live a higher quality life. Chopping off a leg is sad. It leads to a terrible life. No doctor is getting wealthy off removing legs. I pay $500 to get my brakes fixed on my car. I would definitely pay my surgeon that to remove a diseased limb.

But again, not an easy quick fix problem.

[Censored by Laurie]

It is too complicated to find one solution. No doubt.

The price for your five stitches is so partly (mostly) so high because of the 'free emergency room'. People without insurance can show up at the county hospital and get seen by a team of doctors that will not/can not/should not thrown them out for not having insurance. Everything from in-grown toe nails to ruptured splines show up. My friend right after high school got jumped behind a grocery store and had his face bones broken to all hell. As an adult he is still riddled with the medical bills, but what is the back story? Oh yeh, he was dealing drugs and got the frak kicked out of him during a robbery. Someone had to save his life and it is 20 years later and the bills still aren't paid. That cost gets passed on to people that DO pay their bills. It really is that simple.

As far as doctors making too much money, I really don't agree at all. Some doctors bank, absolutely. A general family doctor is only making 140k a year and comes out of school with 30k undergrad bill (at 23 years old), 150k+ medical school bill (at 28 years old) and then *finally* gets their first ever job at the age of 33 years old when they finish their residency. By now they have easily 200k+ in debt (that they can't default on, btw) and have postponed their lives for their entire 20's. Throw on top of that they moved away for undergrad, moved away for medical school and moved away for residency. Not a very good life of constantly moving and working 80-100 hours a week. Their friends have kids, already make 100k a year in their jobs that they have had for 10 years, own a house and drive a nice car. 140k a year and paying off 200k debt AND likely finally trying to start a family and buy their first house. It is worse for women. They may be 34-40 years old before they can finally find the right guy to start a family.. at that point their reproductive years are on the decline and the odds for genetic mutations like DS/MS/whatever are rising every year.

For the life of me I don't see why people become doctors.

A software engineer can likely make 80k a year until they are well into their 60s. After that they are still viable and can make a good income until they retire.

A general surgeon, due to eye-sight problems and jittery hands, may only work until they are 55 and then go into a consulting role. So they have from the ages of 36-55 to make their money count.

They aren't getting life changing money. They aren't setting up future generations for wealth. They are having a nice lifestyle for the second half of their life, but pay for it on the front end.

I would rather go to engineering school and earnly slightly less but live a much happier lifestyle. But I digress.

Tort reform, I am mixed. There are obvious abuses and mishaps and patients should be compensated. However suing EVERYONE in the room or who saw paperwork of a surgery -- is insane. However, having a fat family sue a doctor because their fat father died on their operating table because of the weight of his fat chest on his lungs is absurd. Yet it happens daily. Even residents who are just training and (technically) have no responsibility in most of these cases get named on the lawsuits. They may come out of residency with a judgement against them, which only makes their already burdened life ... more burdened. Tort reform is good, but it needs to be targeted. States that have tort reform draw more talented doctors too.

Her are my steps:

Personal responsibility -- stop being fat. Stop having fat kids. If you are fat, expect to pay higher premiums, since you are in a big risk group.

Insure everyone, so only a segment of a population no longer covers everyone.

Have oversight to make sure best practices are being used in medicine.

Stop calling it Obamacare.

If you want to lower pay of doctors, completely subsidize medical school and residency. Education is expensive (personally and financially), you have to make it more inticing. The repuation of doctors is 89.4% wrong. Even Obama laid it on with the reputation that doctors make too much money: he said in his State of the Union that a surgeon makes 50k to amputate a leg. *Completely* false. A surgeon's portion of the bill for amputating a leg is $500. I would say 99% of leg amputations are for diabetics who don't maintain their health. They get a wound and it won't heal and their poor circulation then leads to them being in a wheelchair sans leg for the remainder of their life. The doctors would gladly not take the $500 if that person would step up, take care of themselves and live a higher quality life. Chopping off a leg is sad. It leads to a terrible life. No doctor is getting wealthy off removing legs. I pay $500 to get my brakes fixed on my car. I would definitely pay my surgeon that to remove a diseased limb.

But again, not an easy quick fix problem.

I think I would really like you.

[JayDub]

I think I would really like you.

JohnDenver is good people...and reasonable. A fine description of the situation.

[BeanCounterGrad'03]

Wish I could give you +1's JD.

[oldguystudent]

JohnDenver is good people...and reasonable. A fine description of the situation.

I like JohnDenver when he pulls up with kegs of home brew. Otherwise, I think his music is pretty crappy, and he's not much of a pilot.

What, too soon?

[FirefightnRick]

The latest on the obama care debate in federal appeals court.

Obama solicitor general: If you don't like mandate, earn less money

President Obama's solicitor general, defending the national health care law on Wednesday, told a federal appeals court that Americans who didn't like the individual mandate could always avoid it by choosing to earn less money.

Rick

[eulesseagle]

This is another instance of socialistic incrementalism as pattered by FDR & LBJ. Take what you can get now to mandate more change later.

Judge Jeffrey Sutton stated, in the article, "would it be hard to limit in Congressional power if the mandate is upheld?"

Judge James Graham stated, "I'm having difficulty seeing how there is any limit to the power as your are defining it."

The thesis is that this would give total control of congress to mandate what the American people must or must not purchase with penalties for going against these mandates. One just has to read the penalties that the health care profession would be assessed, including jail time, for attending too many patients. Just as FDR mandated the destructin of crops and farm animals in the '30's this too will become draconian against the American people if not defeated.

[Censored by Laurie]

This is another instance of socialistic incrementalism as pattered by FDR & LBJ. Take what you can get now to mandate more change later.

Judge Jeffrey Sutton stated, in the article, "would it be hard to limit in Congressional power if the mandate is upheld?"

Judge James Graham stated, "I'm having difficulty seeing how there is any limit to the power as your are defining it."

The thesis is that this would give total control of congress to mandate what the American people must or must not purchase with penalties for going against these mandates. One just has to read the penalties that the health care profession would be assessed, including jail time, for attending too many patients. Just as FDR mandated the destructin of crops and farm animals in the '30's this too will become draconian against the American people if not defeated.

I'm going to start interpreting all of your posts as satire. You're brilliant...really...Jonathan Swift has nothing on you.

[Maduro]

I'm sorry that everyone is so angry... I hope this helps.

[eulesseagle]

I'm going to start interpreting all of your posts as satire. You're brilliant...really...Jonathan Swift has nothing on you.

perhaps you should read some history on the subject before you comment. you, essentially, have the world wide web at your finger tips to fact check anything in my post. The two quotes originate from the posted article.

cbl...how would you analize FFR's posted article? what does it say to you?

Edited June 5, 2011 by eulesseagle

[Green2012]

62% of kids like turtles.

[TheTastyGreek]

cbl...how would you analize FFR's posted article?

This should be interesting. I eagerly await a response.

[CaribbeanGreen]

This should be interesting. I eagerly await a response.

..and please, CBL - be descriptive... and type slooowwwllyy.

[Quoner]

Guys, the internet is full of pearls of wisdom... often held together by a long string.