Louisiana Monroe (2/19/11)

NCMeanGreen · February 20, 2011

Oooovvvvveeeeerrrrraaaatttteeeedddd!!!!

MeanGreenHoops · February 20, 2011

We have match-up issues with every team we have faced this year and opposing coaches are now using a recipe for success against UNT. Don't let us run, force us into a half court offense and extend your defense to cover the perimeter, because everyone has a size advantage on our guards.

I'd say you're half right. The problem isn't offense. The problem is defense. Nearly every trip down the floor in the 2nd half ULM had a wide open shot. It was difficult to find a possession when they didn't get a wide open shot. I mean wide open. And ULM managed to put up 4 maybe 5 airballs in the 2nd half alone. How do you lose to a team that shoot 4 airballs in a half? Keep letting them shoot uncontested shots. It was the worst defense since Trilli ball, and maybe the worst I've ever seen at an NT game.

KRAM1 · February 20, 2011

Hard loss to take. No excuses for this one, but no one is more disappointed in the result than JJ and Company. It does appear that the team is mentally exhausted. I do not think they have given up and as long as the only way to get to the Big Dance is to win the Sunbelt Tournament, there is still hope and I will hold to that hope. But, this was tough to take.

Please do not give up on this team and JJ. let's try to bring a BIG CROWD to the last home game and send these guys off to the tournament knowing that the Mean green faithful is behind them all the way.

Good things can still happen for this team. You gotta believe...the fat lady may be warming up, bur she isn't singing yet. Time to shut her up!

GO MEAN GREEN!

foutsrouts · February 20, 2011

We beat Rice pretty handily, last night Rice blows out a pretty good Memphis team, and we get whipped AT HOME by the worst team in the SBC. Something's just not right here. Don't get it.

CMJ · February 20, 2011

At this point it might be as much confidence (or lack thereof) as anything.

Edited February 20, 2011 by CMJ

Mean Green Matt · February 20, 2011

We beat Rice pretty handily, last night Rice blows out a pretty good Memphis team, and we get whipped AT HOME by the worst team in the SBC. Something's just not right here. Don't get it.

At the very least, we know we have the capability to make some noise in the tournament. Will we get a bye? Probably not, but its not for sure yet. But who says we can't win 4 games in 4 days? Yes we will be exhausted, no we don't have a deep bench, but if this team finds their heart again in the next three games, I will believe they will win every game they play until I see otherwise.

FirefightnRick · February 20, 2011

Yes, there are 6 seniors who play on any given night.

I will keep saying this until someone gets it...

These are the guys that JJ was almost counting on at least 1 or 2 stepping up, but for reasons beyond JJ's control haven't.

RJ McGee - FR. Never set foot on the court this year. Could have been a 6'6" SG/SF addition that would be developing this year and maybe contributing nicely.

Collin Mangrum - SR. Transferred to SMU. The staff may have had time to react to this one, but it still sucks losing a senior from a tournament team that poured in as many minutes as Jacob Holmen did the year before. And look at how many Jacob Holmen is being asked to fill this year. Mangrum could have helped this year.

Alzee Williams - SO. injured
As a freshmen last year spelled Josh White in Dominique Johnson's absence, and did an admirable making cuts and collapsing defenses. I saw him filling a similar role this year as a sophomore with increased minutes and leadership roles.

Cam Spencer - SR. injured
Played about as much as Alzee did last year. At 6'8" we lost a much needed inside presence offensively and defensively from last year. His size alone kept defenses from extending to the 3 point line as much as they are this year.

Alonzo Edwards - JR. playing injured (supposedly needs surgery soon?)
Didn't play with the team last year, and really hasn't played enough minutes or been in a game long enough without fouling out to work on any kind of chemistry with the rest of the team.

Tyler Hall - walk-on JR. injured
This walk-on didn't play that much this year before he got hurt and still has the 3rd best FT% on the team. His FG% is right up there with Josh White and Tristan Thompson too, even if it is mop up duty time.

I simply don't understand how this is all JJ's fault. Things didn't work out like he planned them to, and things don't work out nice and neat all the time.

Thanks for the list of excuses but don't forget to give us one for why we kept an extra ship available KNOWING good and well one player was transferring out and another was a possible grade risk?

Rick

Mean Green Matt · February 20, 2011

Thanks for the list of excuses but don't forget to give us one for why we kept an extra ship available KNOWING good and well one player was transferring out and another was a possible grade risk?

Rick

Hindsight is 20/20. If you add Alzee Williams and Cam Spencer into the equation no one would be complaining about that scholarship. Alzee was injured right after the exibition game I believe, and for most of the year we actually thought Spencer would be able to return. At this point the scholarship issue is what it is, and I don't see it as the fault of Coach Jones. There are other things he may be at fault for, but we don't get to sit in the locker room, so we don't really know.

calvin · February 20, 2011

Its funny to me how when things are bad everyone talks down on what we have accomplished but when we were 13-2 everyone was giddy. Now that we are playing terrible everyone says our schedule was terrible and our record was an abberation. If we were 22-5 right now, nobody would be complaining about our schedule and everyone would be estatic about the season. I am not giving excuses but its not like the teams we played are the worst teams in their respective conferences. Texas State is leading the Southland and UTA and SHSU are both at the top and have a chance to win the league. Jackson St and Texas Southern are 1 and 2 in their conference and head and shoulders above their league, Tech is not good but they do have 4 wins in a tough Big 12 and just beat Baylor yesterday, LSU is not good but I will take a 20 point win at any SEC team's place. And Rice isnt good but they arent the worst team in the Conference USA. So what i am saying is our record wasnt build against the worst teams in the country. And besides SHSU we won all those games and did what we were supposed to do. But what we have done in conference is just mind boggling. I think everyone wishes they could pinpoint the exact problem. I think the main problem has been the lack of defensive fundamentals. We may be the worst defensive team in America. Its crazy to me how we play no help defense, we are always out of position and how we can have our backs turned to the ball when that is a golden rule in man to man to never turn your back to the ball. I just dont understand the lack of fundamentals we show on the defensive end.

GrandGreen · February 20, 2011

Hindsight is 20/20. If you add Alzee Williams and Cam Spencer into the equation no one would be complaining about that scholarship. Alzee was injured right after the exibition game I believe, and for most of the year we actually thought Spencer would be able to return. At this point the scholarship issue is what it is, and I don't see it as the fault of Coach Jones. There are other things he may be at fault for, but we don't get to sit in the locker room, so we don't really know.

Actually I mentioned that I didn't believe leaving two ships open was a good decision before the season begin and I knew of the injuries to Williams and Spencer. Even with those two players healthy, I still think it was a bad decision to pocket two ships and use the other on a very questionable player. This was a team I though was close to a breakthrough year and adding a couple of more capable players would have enhanced the odds. However, I never believed that this team even with a lack of depth would be a sub-500 Belt squad.

JJ has been great for NT basketball but he is not above criticism. With the class he has assembled for next year, it is difficult to believe that last year's recruiting was so bad.

As an aside, the oc schedule was at least equal to most of NT's recent schedules, none have been very challenging for a good team.

TheTastyGreek · February 20, 2011

Actually I mentioned that I didn't believe leaving two ships open was a good decision before the season begin and I knew of the injuries to Williams and Spencer. Even with those two players healthy, I still think it was a bad decision to pocket two ships and use the other on a very questionable player. This was a team I though was close to a breakthrough year and adding a couple of more capable players would have enhanced the odds. However, I never believed that this team even with a lack of depth would be a sub-500 Belt squad.

JJ has been great for NT basketball but he is not above criticism. With the class he has assembled for next year, it is difficult to believe that last year's recruiting was so bad.

As an aside, the oc schedule was at least equal to most of NT's recent schedules, none have been very challenging for a good team.

One ship. One ship was open. Just one. The other came open after the school year started.

Green P1 · February 21, 2011

One ship. One ship was open. Just one. The other came open after the school year started.

Exactly. And if JJ was not so dumb he would have used that last ship to add another player who was really really really good.

TheTastyGreek · February 21, 2011

Exactly. And if JJ was not so dumb he would have used that last ship to add another player who was really really really good.

Like J'mison Morgan. Or Chris Babb. Or Charles Carmouche. Or Chip Armelin.

Though we may need to git sum pitchin', nobody can say we weren't trying to get some at the time.

Even Jay-R Strowbridge had hopscotched twice by then.

drex · February 21, 2011

JJ has given much more to this school than the students, administration and fans have given to him. Cut him some slack. Besides, it is obvious that he is a victim of the Dodge injury curse.

TheTastyGreek · February 21, 2011

JJ has given much more to this school than the students, administration and fans have given to him. Cut him some slack. Besides, it is obvious that he is a victim of the Dodge injury curse.

This may be the only time I smiled about something related to NT basketball in the past 24 hours. +1

MeanMag · February 21, 2011

Thanks for the list of excuses but don't forget to give us one for why we kept an extra ship available KNOWING good and well one player was transferring out and another was a possible grade risk?

Rick

Not trying to make excuses, Rick. But you can't ignore the elephant in the room that some don't seem to think matters.

A lot of people are trying to pinpoint why this team is fading, and I'm only offering up my reasoning.

I realize that JJ is not above getting criticism and that he's dealing with a lot of the same issues we held Dodge accountable for last season.

There are things you can coach and things you can't. I think we give up a lot of length and athleticism to opponents with the people we have injured and not playing 100% right now. Hell, I heard rumors Josh had some issues after Thursday's game coming into Saturday's.

Josh White and Dominique are going to get scored on simply because of the height differences. Tristan has been trying a lot harder on defense and been taking punishment on the offensive end as well. (some unneeded). For the first time this season I think I saw Holmen take a charge, the rest of the time he tries really hard to defend from the side and behind. We have problems on defense because of the personnel we have available.

I brought a friend to the game on Saturday who wasn't familiar with the current team and his comment around midway through the first half was, "Johnny doesn't sub a whole lot. Our guys look tired." I started running through the roster and his options on the bench, and to be honest, there just aren't many right now when someone has a bad night or has lost confidence. So, what may seem like bad coaching could be the lack of options right now, and most likely a combination of both.

This isn't a bad team, they've run into some adversity. They probably aren't as good as the start indicated, and there were some games we probably should have lost if it weren't for those seniors (and Hogans) lifting us through some games. Texas State on the road and Texas Tech at home come to mind. They proved they have it in them to win against decent competition.

I can't help but get this feeling that some cheer for the basketball team to have a bad outing so they can come here and say, "I told you so", or chant "overrated". I don't understand.

Edited February 21, 2011 by MeanMag

GrandGreen · February 21, 2011

Like J'mison Morgan. Or Chris Babb. Or Charles Carmouche. Or Chip Armelin.

Though we may need to git sum pitchin', nobody can say we weren't trying to get some at the time.

Even Jay-R Strowbridge had hopscotched twice by then.

The fact is that you are judged on who signed not who you recruited. As far as one or two ships being open, what difference does that make when you didn't fill either one. To argue that the coaching staff was depending on an obvious academic risk does not strengthen your position. I assume that signing Edwards was also not a gamble based on his 7 pt and 3 rb juco year and obvious health issues. JJ has had a great, by NT standards, four year run and has signed an amazing class for next year that might even get better. I guess those factors override that this year's performance has thus far been a big disappointment and that last year recruiting class, no matter why, was a disaster.

I have no idea to what extent the lack of depth on the team has contributed to the late collaspe of the team. I suspect there is more involved then that, however it certainly hasn't helped.

Edited February 21, 2011 by GrandGreen

TheTastyGreek · February 21, 2011

The fact is that you are judged on who signed not who you recruited. As far as one or two ships being open, what difference does that make when you didn't fill either one. To argue that the coaching staff was depending on an obvious academic risk does not strengthen your position. I assume that signing Edwards was also not a gamble based on his 7 pt and 3 rb juco year and obvious health issues. JJ has had a great, by NT standards, four year run and has signed an amazing class for next year that might even get better. I guess those factors override that this year's performance has thus far been a big disappointment and that last year recruiting class, no matter why, was a disaster.

I have no idea to what extent the lack of depth on the team has contributed to the late collaspe of the team. I suspect there is more involved then that, however it certainly hasn't helped.

Not trying to be contentious, I hope you know by now that I have a lot of respect for your opinion even when I don't share it...

But having one open scholarship going into the school year, when you nearly closed on (at the very least) Armelin and Carmouche, doesn't strike me as a terrible tactical blunder. Rather than throwing it at any warm body still available, we had it in reserve to use for a potential midyear transfer. Knowing (as I know you do) that we were rumored to be in on at least 4 potential Big 12 transfers, NOT including actual midyear transfer Shawn Williams... I don't see having one open ship on a team that didn't seem to have a lot of minutes for anyone outside the 12 scholarship players on the roster as the school year began.

McGhee was not an academic time bomb as far any of us knew. If ANYONE expressed any anxiety over his class performance, I don't remember reading it here or anywhere else that I check in on regularly. Given that he graduated high school and passed the NCAA clearinghouse with no issues, I can only imagine that whatever attitude or academic problems popped up in the first week of school were a surprise to the coaching staff as well.

If we had actually sat on two ships, I'd probably be more upset about the depth situation right now. But for a team with seven scholarship seniors to have one open ship, given the rebuilding effort ahead and the potential reinforcements supposedly ready to transfer... That's no great outrage to me. Given that we missed out on at least four worthy scholarship athletes, it seems (both at the time and in hindsight) like a wise move under the circumstances.

For anyone who is furious that we had one open scholarship entering the season... Just go ahead and pretend that Avery Redmond is/was on scholarship. And that the ship was now tied up for 3 more years. Because that may very well have been the talent level of anyone available to fill that scholarship at the time.

MeanMag · February 21, 2011

The fact is that you are judged on who signed not who you recruited. As far as one or two ships being open, what difference does that make when you didn't fill either one. To argue that the coaching staff was depending on an obvious academic risk does not strengthen your position. I assume that signing Edwards was also not a gamble based on his 7 pt and 3 rb juco year and obvious health issues. JJ has had a great, by NT standards, four year run and has signed an amazing class for next year that might even get better. I guess those factors override that this year's performance has thus far been a big disappointment and that last year recruiting class, no matter why, was a disaster.

I have no idea to what extent the lack of depth on the team has contributed to the late collaspe of the team. I suspect there is more involved then that, however it certainly hasn't helped.

I understand and hear what you are saying. Good D1 basketball players don't exactly grow on trees. Good D1 basketball players who have experience and can make an impact this season would be even tougher to find. I don't think 1 scholly would have made up for what we lost, but you're right, you don't know if you don't try. It's JJ's M.O. to hold on to a scholarship for someone deserving who might be a late qualifier. It's not a bad idea as a mid major.

meanrob · February 21, 2011

Peach basket pod disappears, team falls apart.

Coincidence?.......yeah, probably so.

TheTastyGreek · February 21, 2011

Peach basket pod disappears, team falls apart.

Coincidence?.......yeah, probably so.

This time of year tends to be when things start getting busier for me. Super Bowl blew out a week, and I haven't had a chance to record at any of our possible times in the weeks since.

Unless CBL is unavailable, there WILL be a podcast this week.

Army of Dad · February 21, 2011

I am just shocked and dismayed. Horrible end to this season and I really don't think you can say that it isn't over. This team is a dead man walking and has been for several weeks now. I NEVER thought this season would end this way and I don't think any reasonable fan would have foreseen this debacle. I don't think JJ is to blame on the open scholarships, though we usually see him as a miracle worker and naturally expect him to pull out a recruiting shocker.

None of this will change my passion for watching this team and cheering them on as best I can. I am a lifelong Minnesota Vikings fan, and as a result a pessimist. I am used to getting the proverbial kick in the teeth most years, I am just disappointed that this team is doing it to me this year.

We have watched our dreams for this season die. Some of us are in the acceptance stage and some of us are still in denial, while some of us are in the anger stage right now. We should all remember that before any hateful posts are made. By definition we are fanatics, and we are joined in a common cause. We will all still be here next season and the season after that. My family will renew our season tickets for next year, I suspect most of the rest of you will do the same.

I will still be there on Saturday and we made sure that our "Ice Game" comp tickets are being used that game to see these seniors off. They have accomplished much, though I suspect in the years to come they will feel like they didn't accomplish as much as they could have. The Mean Green family will come to see this season as an opportunity missed, but as a fan I hold out hope that next year's team will make me forget the disappointment of this year's team. Remember that for us, there is always a next year to look forward to.

If I am wrong (and God I hope I am) and they win out I will happily take my lumps.

Edited February 21, 2011 by Army of Dad

UNTFan23 · February 21, 2011

Thanks for the list of excuses but don't forget to give us one for why we kept an extra ship available KNOWING good and well one player was transferring out and another was a possible grade risk?

Rick

I think the problem is bigger than having that open scholarship not getting filled.

I'd rather see the coaching staff go out and try to get a quality player to fill that scholarship than finding a warm body just to fill the scholarship just because the scholly is there.

On the flip side, people would be all over the coaching staff for wasting a scholly when a quality player suddenly becomes available when we used that scholly to appease some of the fan base.

UNTLifer · February 21, 2011

Learning a zone, and learning it proficiently is totally different.

Substitute "man to man" for "zone" in the quote above and you've described this year's team.

UNTLifer · February 21, 2011

My comments in bold. Alzee is really missed, the remainders are all unproven.

These are the guys that JJ was almost counting on at least 1 or 2 stepping up, but for reasons beyond JJ's control haven't.

RJ McGee - FR (JJ knew he was a grade risk when he recruited him, at least he should have, and I hate to rely on a freshman to provide solid minutes night to night.

Collin Mangrum - SR. Transferred to SMU. The staff may have had time to react to this one, but it still sucks losing a senior from a tournament team that poured in as many minutes as Jacob Holmen did the year before. And look at how many Jacob Holmen is being asked to fill this year. Mangrum could have helped this year. Yes he could have

Alzee Williams - SO. injured
As a freshmen last year spelled Josh White in Dominique Johnson's absence, and did an admirable making cuts and collapsing defenses. I saw him filling a similar role this year as a sophomore with increased minutes and leadership roles. Really miss Alzee. The only proven returning player.

Cam Spencer - SR. injured
Played about as much as Alzee did last year. At 6'8" we lost a much needed inside presence offensively and defensively from last year. His size alone kept defenses from extending to the 3 point line as much as they are this year. Maybe, maybe not. What has he shown in the past? Here is is bio from last year; "North Texas 2009-10
Saw action in 30 games and averaged 8.6 minutes as NTs first big man off the bench … Saw 13 minutes in the NCAA Tournament game versus Kansas State and had three points and four rebounds … Finished the year with seven blocks and six steals … Poured in a career-high eight points in eight minutes at Middle Tennessee … Late steal at Western Kentucky helped seal only the programs second ever win at E.A. Diddle … Hit a key bucket in the win over UALR … Six boards in 11 minutes at FIU … Career high two assists and a block vs ULM … Solid five points on 2-3 shooting against the Univ. of the Southwest … Game and career-high eight rebounds at Boise State … Scored a bucket in the season opener versus Cameron for his first action at NT." Not a proven player by any means.

Alonzo Edwards - JR. playing injured (supposedly needs surgery soon?)
Didn't play with the team last year, and really hasn't played enough minutes or been in a game long enough without fouling out to work on any kind of chemistry with the rest of the team.

Tyler Hall - walk-on JR. injured
This walk-on didn't play that much this year before he got hurt and still has the 3rd best FT% on the team. His FG% is right up there with Josh White and Tristan Thompson too, even if it is mop up duty time. Sorry, but I can't see us relying heavily on a walk-on

I simply don't understand how this is all JJ's fault. Things didn't work out like he planned them to, and things don't work out nice and neat all the time.