Recruiting Class

meangreanmick · February 3, 2011

I don't want to be a downer or anything, welcome other's thoughts.

I know the "star" ratings aren't everything, but they are certainly a rough indicator. I feel like we covered some needs, but when you compare to others I worry if we are actually gaining any ground. Not so much in Sunbelt, those are fairly close together. However, I look at CUSA and particularly SMU. June's first class had 8 - 3*+ recruits in 2009. More in 2010 and 21 - 3*+ recruits this year. That has certainly translated into on the field success for SMU.

When I compare Mean Green, I see only 5 - 3*+ recruits in the staff's first year (remember June had 8 his first year), not to mention that on paper SMU blew it out this year with 21. I am worried that we are depending on alot of overachieving to happen based on the prognosticators. We have been successful like this before, but that seems like a hard way to make a living, especially if you want to be consistent in on field performance from year to year.

GrandGreen · February 3, 2011

Like it or not; SMU is miles ahead of NT now. Unfortunately, so are the rest of the Texas fb schools. Several Belt teams also had outstanding recruiting years on paper in particular WKU and FIU. I think McCarney and staff did great under the circumstances but NT has a long long way to go.

pastorgrant · February 3, 2011

I'm counting 6 3* guys and Brooks, Polk, and Stojkovic aren't among them. There are some real finds in this class, I wouldn't let the star count skew that, they don't mean a lot.

FloMoGrad · February 3, 2011

Star's are handed out based on the top 50 then 51-150, then 151-300 and so forth.

Urban Meyer was on ESPNU today and said the difference between a 147 ranked player and the 350th ranked player, was nonexistent.

Pastor Grant hit it too, I think there's some guys under the radar in this class and a sleeper or two.

Recruiting is only half the battle. TCU signed there first ESPNU top 150 player, a 4 star receiver, yet they've done pretty well for themselves.

UT is near the top of the ranking every year, yet went 5-6 last yr.

Never underestimate the importance of how the players are utilized and developed.

Still feel like this was a very solid and complete class.

H-towngreen · February 3, 2011

What do you expect when you only have several weeks to put a class together

PlummMeanGreen · February 3, 2011

I don't want to be a downer or anything, welcome other's thoughts.

I know the "star" ratings aren't everything, but they are certainly a rough indicator. I feel like we covered some needs, but when you compare to others I worry if we are actually gaining any ground. Not so much in Sunbelt, those are fairly close together. However, I look at CUSA and particularly SMU. June's first class had 8 - 3*+ recruits in 2009. More in 2010 and 21 - 3*+ recruits this year. That has certainly translated into on the field success for SMU.

When I compare Mean Green, I see only 5 - 3*+ recruits in the staff's first year (remember June had 8 his first year), not to mention that on paper SMU blew it out this year with 21. I am worried that we are depending on alot of overachieving to happen based on the prognosticators. We have been successful like this before, but that seems like a hard way to make a living, especially if you want to be consistent in on field performance from year to year.

When you recruit for position and get the right kid with a frame you can grow up in the weight room and/or cafeteria if need be and this kid has the right speed for said position.......I think in many cases it doesn't matter how many stars those kids had in high school--the fact that our recruits will fit in at our school, our system, our offense and, our defense makes that kid just as valuable at our school as a 3, 4 or 5 star kid at another school.

We should not forget that those players you describe earned those stars against high school competition, too, yet sort of a funny thing that all these 2, 3, 4 or 5 star recruits start out their college careers with "zero" stars once 2-a-days start this August.

Darrell Royal Told Hayden Fry post-1976 UT/NT Game Won By UT 17 to 14:

"But Hayden, our recruiting classes the last 4 years had 100 times the blue chippers than North Texas--so how did "YALL" almost beat us tonight?" :rolleyes: Of course, those words were never uttered by DKR but look at UT recruiting (back then) with their perennial great classes.

Can anyone explain why North Texas in the early 70's after a few disastrous years with Rod Rust and his catastrophic ender season of "0" wins in 1972 plus....Fouts Field (with track and all) as our less than exciting football stadium could be competitive with UT a few years later with (basically) unknown recruits? IMO, I think it was a matter that North Texas had recruits that fit our system quite well may be one answer to that question.

The Ghosts of Recruiting Seasons Past: Forever at UNT we have heard this from media recruiting gurus during past recruiting years: "Those kids will be the kind that North Texas can sign" (as if they all came from leper colonies or something) :rolleyes: yet........with those same "North Texas kind of kids" one particular group (among others from different eras at North Texas) only went down to Austin and played the Texas Longhorns (with Earl Campbell) off their heels in our first ever game with UT. :blink:

North Texas is not the only school that has done this with recruiting classes unknown to the media and I think you can start with the Boise State Broncos who beat OU in that superb bowl game a few years ago with more sucesses since and.... with no highly ranked recruiting classes to boot. Also look at TCU, Utah and a whole host of others who've done the same with unheralded recruiting classes.

Long story short: :rolleyes: I feel most of us would rather our recruits be 4 or 5 star pedigree talent by their senior year over at the Mean Green Village compared to the stars they earned at a high school level. Just sayin'...

Congrats to HFC McCarney and staff on a great first class! It is very much a sign of things to come.

GMG!

Edited February 3, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

FirefightnRick · February 3, 2011

I don't know if we have EVER out recruited anyone on our schedule in the 25 years I have been following the Mean Green. But we have OUTCOACHED and OUTPLAYED and OUTHUSTLED and whipped our share of ass on the field and I and many others have witnessed it. Which is why I'll never understand why anyone gets worked up over the recruit rating stuff.

Coaching is the key to success. Always has been and always will be. The coaches pick the talent that they know they can mold. I suggest those who are really worried about it go back and reread the bio's of this coaching staff and see that we now have one of the most battled hardened staff NT has ever had. Relax! We're gonna be fine.

It' All Good and All Green!

Rick

Edited February 3, 2011 by FirefightnRick

Mean Green 93-98 · February 3, 2011

I don't want to be a downer or anything, welcome other's thoughts.

I know the "star" ratings aren't everything, but they are certainly a rough indicator. I feel like we covered some needs, but when you compare to others I worry if we are actually gaining any ground. Not so much in Sunbelt, those are fairly close together. However, I look at CUSA and particularly SMU. June's first class had 8 - 3*+ recruits in 2009. More in 2010 and 21 - 3*+ recruits this year. That has certainly translated into on the field success for SMU.

When I compare Mean Green, I see only 5 - 3*+ recruits in the staff's first year (remember June had 8 his first year), not to mention that on paper SMU blew it out this year with 21. I am worried that we are depending on alot of overachieving to happen based on the prognosticators. We have been successful like this before, but that seems like a hard way to make a living, especially if you want to be consistent in on field performance from year to year.

That is incorrect. June Jones only had 4 3-star recruits in his first class, put together on short notice. If you want to compare June's first recruiting class after having a whole year, shouldn't Coach Mac likewise get a whole year?

meangreanmick · February 3, 2011

All good points. I also noticed that the recruit pages also are all over the board in terms of being accurately updated. I do think we got some impact players - and of course you can only play with 11 on the field at one time.

I am excited about next year, I think this coaching staff has the potential to have more success on the field. I think if we do, it will really have a big impact in next years recruiting as well.

go mean green!

island eagle · February 3, 2011

That is incorrect. June Jones only had 4 3-star recruits in his first class, put together on short notice. If you want to compare June's first recruiting class after having a whole year, shouldn't Coach Mac likewise get a whole year?

Absolutely. This class is far better than could have been reasonably expected given all the circumstances. I am very pleased with it. I think, given a year, we will see an even better class nest year. Coach Mac is doing this the right way, building from the ground up with high school recruits. Also, we have no way to know at this point how effective their talent evaluation is. It's one thing to recruit a "name", it is another thing to recruit a real player. I have faith that our coach and his staff know what they are doing.

SUMG · February 3, 2011

Given the circumstances and all (late start, the years of Dodge to overcome)......I'd give this class a B. If we'd have been able to retain Hunt and Carr....a B+ or A-. But still, very good work by our staff.

meangreanmick · February 3, 2011

That is incorrect. June Jones only had 4 3-star recruits in his first class, put together on short notice. If you want to compare June's first recruiting class after having a whole year, shouldn't Coach Mac likewise get a whole year?

Fair enough. I was referring to 2009 - given June was hired in January of 2008, basically he had 4 weeks. None of it is apples to apples, I know, our staff this time had I guess basically 2 months or something like that? (can't quite remember off top of my head when Mac was hired).

Man, I wasn't looking to start an argument or criticize our recruiting class. I guess I was just thinking out loud, we are excited about our class (as we should be), but how do we all feel about how much ground we are making up?

I will try not to do that again. (mean green 93-98 that isn't directed at you)

Edited February 3, 2011 by meangreanmick

FloMoGrad · February 3, 2011

After spending the last 2 yrs recruiting at Florida, I'd be real hesitant to not trust his judgement of talent (speed, size, strength, power, overall "football" skills). He's seen the fastest, strongest, 5* , most athletic recruits in the country, he knows what he's looking for and what fit's his system.

Canales and Bowen, same thing, Big East and Big XII, they know what they want.

Throw some W's on the board, get to a bowl game, and this could get a lot more exciting come Signing Day next yr.

Graddean · February 3, 2011

By the way, wasn't Texas 5-7 this year. Obviously, the star system did not work for them this year. Big Ben wasn't exactly a five star. Closer to home remember PC. I think we all would love to have five star recruits for bragging rights; however, it does not always show up in positive results. These coaches know what they need and seem to feel they got it. I am willing to accept that.

Mean Green 93-98 · February 3, 2011

Fair enough. I was referring to 2009 - given June was hired in January of 2008, basically he had 4 weeks. None of it is apples to apples, I know, our staff this time had I guess basically 2 months or something like that? (can't quite remember off top of my head when Mac was hired).

Man, I wasn't looking to start an argument or criticize our recruiting class. I guess I was just thinking out loud, we are excited about our class (as we should be), but how do we all feel about how much ground we are making up?

I will try not to do that again. (mean green 93-98 that isn't directed at you)

Nothing wrong with comparing, but I don't believe our future hinges on catching up with SMU.

That same class that SMU only had 4 3-star recruits, we had 8, as we did in 2010. It was only a couple of years ago we were right there with SMU as far as star power in recruiting classes. But you know what they did? They won with their limited star power, we didn't. Well, they got trounced their first year with June, almost lost their season opener to SFA his second year, but then figured things out and started winning. Now the higher-rated players want to play for SMU.

We will probably also have some growing pains in 2011, but if we can start winning with what we have--and good coaching will get us there, just as it did with SMU--higher rated recruits will come.

As far as rating this class, you have to understand that most of the good recruits were already committed before Coach Mac ever started. To pull as many players as he did away from their previous commitments is pretty amazing. But I think we've got another year before we can begin to really assess how good at recruiting Coach Mac and his staff are.

GrayEagle · February 3, 2011

I follow the star system to a degree and I believe that they didn't do their job on several recruits. This a good class and had they been able to retain Carr and Hunt, a very good class. There are some that were underrated...Akunne, Whitfield and Stojkovic especially. Others may have lacked a little in size (but not speed). There are three or four projects in this group. They can still be three star players with time in the weight room and good coaching. They certainly have the potential.

That's the key to the success of this class...good coaching. As Plumm pointed out about TCU...they didn't draft any 4 or 5* players but they sure had them when they graduated.

This class may seem a little disappointing at first but I think that we've got about a dozen that can contribute this fall. I don't recall a freshman class that I could say that about.

You just can't overcome six years of bad football in a single recruiting class.

MeanGreen61 · February 3, 2011

Interesting comments about rankings and stars in this Green Gang article.

http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1800&ATCLID=205088964

All About UNT · February 3, 2011

Tony Nwigwe and Craig Robertson were both 2 star recruits and I would gladly have them on our D any day of the week. Same goes to Lance and Darius Carey. I would like to think that if Dodge's coaching staff can make football players out of these guys and truly harness their God-Given abilities.....then surely this staff can do four-fold diligence to what we have in our roster now.

Also noted was that SMU's 2006-2008 classes were on par with our own....the only difference was a coach that knew how to win on a collegiate level was leading their team vs. what our scenario was. I am more concerned with development and the ability to exploit (not to be misunderstood) the talent that these players possess. Do you think that anyone of these kids think of Coach DMac in the same way they would Coach Dodge? Have you heard the mannerisms in which both men speak? Coach D scares the living crap outta me and I am glad that I won't have to be doing the workouts that these boys are going through in order to reach the level of expectations that DMac is setting. These are all good expectations and will cause these guys to fight harder to get wins for the school, for themselves and for the coaching staff.

Can't freakin wait.

meangreanmick · February 3, 2011

Ya'll make some pretty good points. I am very excited to see what a coaching staff with big time college experience can do next year. I hadn't realized that TCU didn't have any 4 or 5* recruits till recently. If true, that is impressive and evidence of what good coaching means. Also good points about SMU, I don't guess I gave much thought to the idea that they are winning now based in part on those recruiting classes that were similar in rankings to ours just a few years back.

I think our coaching staff did a great job for what they had to work with in recruiting this year, no question. I don't remember being able to win away so many recruits from other significant D1 schools like we did this year. (we always wish it could be more!)

I really hope the new coaching staff and some new infused talent turns into some success on the field next season. I think if we had some success (.500 maybe) that will do wonders for what this coaching staff can recruit next year to build on this year.

All About UNT · February 3, 2011

Ya'll make some pretty good points. I am very excited to see what a coaching staff with big time college experience can do next year. I hadn't realized that TCU didn't have any 4 or 5* recruits till recently. If true, that is impressive and evidence of what good coaching means. Also good points about SMU, I don't guess I gave much thought to the idea that they are winning now based in part on those recruiting classes that were similar in rankings to ours just a few years back.

I think our coaching staff did a great job for what they had to work with in recruiting this year, no question. I don't remember being able to win away so many recruits from other significant D1 schools like we did this year. (we always wish it could be more!)

I really hope the new coaching staff and some new infused talent turns into some success on the field next season. I think if we had some success (.500 maybe) that will do wonders for what this coaching staff can recruit next year to build on this year.

See our basketball recruiting class as evidence of what winning can do.

SilverEagle · February 3, 2011

I don't know if we have EVER out recruited anyone on our schedule in the 25 years I have been following the Mean Green. But we have OUTCOACHED and OUTPLAYED and OUTHUSTLED and whipped our share of ass on the field and I and many others have witnessed it. Which is why I'll never understand why anyone gets worked up over the recruit rating stuff.

Coaching is the key to success. Always has been and always will be. The coaches pick the talent that they know they can mold. I suggest those who are really worried about it go back and reread the bio's of this coaching staff and see that we now have one of the most battled hardened staff NT has ever had. Relax! We're gonna be fine.

It' All Good and All Green!

Rick

I totally agree with Rick on the bolded section. One of my favorite coaches, Corkey Nelson, used to take what most people considered leftovers and beat people like TCU, Texas Tech, Rice, and New Mexico. The most recent example is how our team played when Coach Canales was fully in charge.

I'm going to be more interested in how our current players respond to the new coaching staff, rather than how much of an impact the new players will make on the team.

GrandGreen · February 3, 2011

NT fans and most other schools have this same recruiting discussion annually. The side taken is usually determined by the status of the class, lots of accolades or average or less. Someone will say stars mean nothing, by the way McCarney said he could care less about stars. Others will brag because their team got a higher class ranking than others. If a team is star deprived someone will bring up players with low ratings who turned out to be outstanding. Others will claim their players are underrated ignoring the fact that all teams have players who are underrated as well as overrated.

The simple truth is that star rating are someones opinion based usually on little input particularly for players that usually fall to Belt teams. Their ratings are not highly accurate or teams like Boise and TCU would never rise to the heights they have because they sure didn't get highly decorated classes when they begin their climb. However, anyone who believes a class like SMU, La Tech, or FIU who have about three times the 3 star athletes of NT aren't likely to be better are naive. The 2001 class, that all DD success was primarily build on, had 7 state 100 players on it. I don't think it was a coincidence that group was the best in decades at NT and was primarily responsible for the 26 straight conference wins. .

Someone else will bring up the very obvious that you can't really value the class until three or four years pass. True but it kind of makes most recruiting discussion moot, plus that type of analysis is seldom done.

I think McCarney and staff did well based on the time they had and the woeful recent history of NT football. They didn't hit any home runs and the class will rank very low in the nation. However, I think it is better then any group of recruits since the aforementioned 2001 team. . It is a well balanced class and I believe will spawn many players that make a positive difference in the program and a few real stars. It is a good start but the fact that compared to NT's current peers it is an average at best class shows how much remains to be done at NT.

UNT90 · February 3, 2011

It's all about developing the talent you recruit, especially at our level. I have much more faith in this staff to accomplish this than the last.

Time will tell, but I think this year is a disappointment if we win less than 6 games. This is the Sin Belt, where coaching matters.

NCMeanGreen · February 3, 2011

Star's are handed out based on the top 50 then 51-150, then 151-300 and so forth.

Pastor Grant hit it too, I think there's some guys under the radar in this class and a sleeper or two.

Seems like we say that EVERY year?? :unsure:

Most, if not all, of us thought TD's first class was not that bad as well. We were impressed...thought their were "some guys under the radar" and a "sleeper or two" in that class. Go back and look at that class again...how many of those kids actually contributed anything??

Point is...we are fooling ourselves if we think this class cracks the Top 100 in the country. Let's just hope the coaches can coach the heck out of them...put them in a position to be successful...and motivate them to push themselves maybe beyond their limits.

island eagle · February 3, 2011

Seems like we say that EVERY year??

Most, if not all, of us thought TD's first class was not that bad as well. We were impressed...thought their were "some guys under the radar" and a "sleeper or two" in that class. Go back and look at that class again...how many of those kids actually contributed anything??

Point is...we are fooling ourselves if we think this class cracks the Top 100 in the country. Let's just hope the coaches can coach the heck out of them...put them in a position to be successful...and motivate them to push themselves maybe beyond their limits.

Those of us who did not drink Dodge cool-aid did NOT think his first class was all that good. It fact many of us thought it was the obvious disaster it was bound to be when he delayed taking the job for a month. One of the worst decisions ever by an incoming North Texas coach and symptomatic of what was to occur. Not everyone was on that bandwagon at all.