University of Lamar

PlummMeanGreen · January 28, 2011

The weird part as far as the timing of this thread on Lamar is today in Willow Park (Parker County) I saw what looked like an official "Lamar Cardinal Football" automobile.

The entire car was painted with their school colors and logo and appeared to be a Lamar U employee behind the wheel.

Question: Are they now U of Lamar or still Lamar University?

PlummMeanGreen · January 28, 2011

The funny thing is that with all of the facilities we have now that are high quality for athletics, the location of our school, and the number of UNT students and alumni, you would think that conferences like the MWC or CUSA would want us in their league because they could see how we would bring to the table if we were to start playing teams people know of each week. I have never understood why another conference's leadership couldn't see all of this potential. If we draw decently against Sun Belt teams, it seems like the MWC would drool over the idea of having this growing program get an energy boost by playing some of those schools in their conference, especially over all of the other competitors for the supposed 12th spot. Sure, winning brings more consideration, but it would seem that attendance and ratings would bring even more consideration from a conference standpoint. I can understand CUSA not wanitng us because of the influence from the other schools in the conference, but the MWC has no members to "block" us. San Jose State or New Mexico State don't even come close to having the eyeballs to surpass what we offer.

I really believe that it will take a Craig Thompson-type that will have to just go by faith in what we can be and take us in. It is very frustrating to know that you are stuck in a conference that you would gladly jump out of, but the other conferences around you act as if you aren't really there (notable exception: The Weak Ass Conference). Its just hard for me to believe that it is only about winning for us to get consideration. Hell, 24K showed up for a game between UNT and Rice at a toilet of a stadium, which matched two of the worst teams in college football last year, just because people in the Metroplex have heard of Rice. Same thing happened when SMU or Tulsa came to town, as it did when Army or Navy came here. Why other conferences don't consider this when looking at us just bewilders me. I refuse to believe that it is due to a lack of communication between our school's leadership and those other conferences, especially since RV has made it clear for years that we would always be ready to move upward from the SBC. It just doesn't make sense to me.

If we had been building our new stadium because we had had a Marshall U-type of program that won year after year at the 1-AA level (which we never did regularly enough at the 1-AA level when we (many would admit) thought we were something quite special after we dropped from the Fry Era to that lower level and then we played poor or below average SWC schools close & even won a few making us feel even more special--although it was the Marshall's and Boise's who were building something much, much grander than we during those years we just keep hanging in there with Fouts Field as our decrepid home)..................yet had we had to build our upcoming new football stadium because of our having had an annual "lights out" winning progam instead of........replacing one of the worse stadiums in the FBS...then maybe we would have gotten consideration from those we wanted to be looked upon favorably and then you add this...

...we are just in a bad geographical area for CUSA consideration because just like the old SWC who first developed the attitude of "we just don't need another school from Texas." 1 (mabye 2) CUSA schools alums just take it to the limit with us by using outdated excuses about UNT (commuter school, teacher's college, etc). Still at present doesn't make us a bad gamble for any conference, but is just where we are now with this.

Lady Luck, Where Are Ya'? We just need a break of any kind such as something unexpected that happens in one of the leagues we are interested or as an...

Early 2011 Christmas Wish List: We need MWC Craig Thompson Commish' to develop a huge hunch that the University of North Texas and the TV market it is located is just the way for his league to go, especially when they want to impress the all-important TV sports network gurus who put league TV packages together.

We are a great location for the MWC, but at present we are not for CUSA albeit that league would be many on this forum's first choice because of the very thing that is kicking our butt.....the CUSA geography.

Edited January 28, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

NT80 · January 28, 2011

Stadium - Our new stadium isn't even complete yet and in size it would be at the low end of both CUSA and the MWC.

We would be comparable stadium size to the CUSA West at 30K+, and Rice and Tulane are over-stadiumed. The SuperPit would rank 3rd in size in all of CUSA.

In the "new" MWC we would compare well in stadium size to Boise, Nevada, Wyoming, and UNLV; not far from UNM, and CSU.

East Division

UAB Legion Field 71,594 Bartow Arena 8,508

UCF Bright House Networks Stadium 45,301 UCF Arena 10,045

East Carolina Dowdy–Ficklen Stadium 50,000 Williams Arena at Minges Coliseum 8,000

Marshall Joan C. Edwards Stadium 38,019 Cam Henderson Center 9,600

Memphis Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium 62,380 FedExForum (men)18,119

Southern Miss M. M. Roberts Stadium 40,000 Reed Green Coliseum 8,095

West Division

Houston Robertson Stadium 32,000 Hofheinz Pavilion 8,500

Rice Rice Stadium 47,000 Tudor Fieldhouse 5,208

SMU Gerald J. Ford Stadium 32,000 Moody Coliseum 8,998

UTEP Sun Bowl Stadium 51,500 Don Haskins Center 12,222

Tulane Louisiana Superdome 72,968 Avron B. Fogelman Arena 3,600

Tulsa H. A. Chapman Stadium 30,000 Reynolds Center 8,355

Edited January 28, 2011 by NT80

GrayEagle · January 28, 2011

If we had been building our new stadium because we had had a Marshall U-type of program that won year after year at the 1-AA level (which we really never did regularly enough while at the 1-AA level when we thought we were something quite special after we dropped to that level and when we played poor or below average SWC schools close or even won a few of those games making us feel even more special--although the Marshall's and Boise's were building something much grander than us during thos years)..................yet had we had to build our new stadium because of our having had an annual "lights out" winning progam instead o........replacing one of the worse stadiums in the FBS...then maybe we get consideration from those we wanted to be looked upon favorably but also this...

...we are just in a bad geographical area for CUSA because like the old SWC developed the same attitude of "we just don't need another school from Texas" that seems to the CUSA's attitude. 1 (mabye 2) CUSA schools alums just take it to the limit with us by using time tested and other outdated excuses about UNT (commuter school, teacher's college, etc). Doesn't make us a bad gamble for any conference, but is just where we are now with all this which makes all this what it is.

We just need a break such as something unexpected that happens in one of the leagues or...

...MWC Craig Thompson Commish' just needs to develop a huge hunch that the University of North Texas and the TV market it is located is just the way to go for the MWC, especially when they want to impress the TV sports network gurus who put league TV packages together.

We are a great location for the MWC and at present we are not for CUSA albeit that league would be many first choices of most on this forum because of the very thing that is kicking our butt.....the CUSA geography.

Jim, I normally agree with you but in this case I think that our location should work for us in CUSA alignment.

Yes, East Carolina and Marshall would like for more teams near them but they are the ones far away from the base core of CUSA. When the Big East takes their 10th team I believe that it will be UCF. That would make 8 of the 11 remaining within 100 miles of the Mississippi River or further west. The conference office is a scant 20 miles from the North Texas campus.

Furthermore, there aren't any FBS universities that would be advantageous to the eastern schools except Temple, FAU and FIU. Either of the three would add considerable travel expense to the conference when it is not needed. None of the three have acceptable attendance either.

East Carolina is Big Six worthy. They are competitive and draw around 45,000. They could also be gone when expansion is finally settled. The conference needs to move west.

untjim1995 · January 28, 2011

Jim, I normally agree with you but in this case I think that our location should work for us in CUSA alignment.

Yes, East Carolina and Marshall would like for more teams near them but they are the ones far away from the base core of CUSA. When the Big East takes their 10th team I believe that it will be UCF. That would make 8 of the 11 remaining within 100 miles of the Mississippi River or further west. The conference office is a scant 20 miles from the North Texas campus.

Furthermore, there aren't any FBS universities that would be advantageous to the eastern schools except Temple, FAU and FIU. Either of the three would add considerable travel expense to the conference when it is not needed. None of the three have acceptable attendance either.

East Carolina is Big Six worthy. They are competitive and draw around 45,000. They could also be gone when expansion is finally settled. The conference needs to move west.

I've seen you post on the need for CUSA to move westward, especially if UCF and/or ECU move. For me, I just don't see how losing a huge public institution in the east being replaced by another huge public institution in Texas, especially in the backyard of one of the conference's small private schools, would pass muster with the remainder of the conference's membership. The four private schools vote as a block. The other Texas public schools look at us like we apparently do to Texas State and UTSA, that there is nothing to be gained by helping another Texas school move up the ladder. This isn't even talking about Memphis, UAB, and USM, who probably would like the added markets for the league that Nashville (MTSU) and Miami (FAU or FIU) would give to their TV footprint, especially replacing Greenville, NC and Orlando with much bigger locations. I think PMG is dead-on here about CUSA geography being perfect for what UNT needs, but its geography is a deal-killer for us unless SMU moves on or the conference leadership in Irving just overrides all of these concerns and lets us in. That last part seems very far-fetched to me, but I suppose there's always a chance.

ColoradoEagle · January 28, 2011

The best bet at this point is to aim for an AQ conference invite. It took a little over a decade, but it seems to have worked out pretty well for TCU.

DeepGreen · January 28, 2011

The funny thing is that with all of the facilities we have now that are high quality for athletics, the location of our school, and the number of UNT students and alumni, you would think that conferences like the MWC or CUSA would want us in their league because they could see how we would bring to the table if we were to start playing teams people know of each week. I have never understood why another conference's leadership couldn't see all of this potential. If we draw decently against Sun Belt teams, it seems like the MWC would drool over the idea of having this growing program get an energy boost by playing some of those schools in their conference, especially over all of the other competitors for the supposed 12th spot. Sure, winning brings more consideration, but it would seem that attendance and ratings would bring even more consideration from a conference standpoint. I can understand CUSA not wanitng us because of the influence from the other schools in the conference, but the MWC has no members to "block" us. San Jose State or New Mexico State don't even come close to having the eyeballs to surpass what we offer.

I really believe that it will take a Craig Thompson-type that will have to just go by faith in what we can be and take us in. It is very frustrating to know that you are stuck in a conference that you would gladly jump out of, but the other conferences around you act as if you aren't really there (notable exception: The Weak Ass Conference). Its just hard for me to believe that it is only about winning for us to get consideration. Hell, 24K showed up for a game between UNT and Rice at a toilet of a stadium, which matched two of the worst teams in college football last year, just because people in the Metroplex have heard of Rice. Same thing happened when SMU or Tulsa came to town, as it did when Army or Navy came here. Why other conferences don't consider this when looking at us just bewilders me. I refuse to believe that it is due to a lack of communication between our school's leadership and those other conferences, especially since RV has made it clear for years that we would always be ready to move upward from the SBC. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Excellent post! I have always thought that if CUSA would just give us a chance to compete with the likes of Houston, UTEP, Rice, SMU, Tulsa, etc. Why has UNT always been on the outside looking in? :ph34r: Facilities? Location? Academics?

GrayEagle · January 28, 2011

Excellent post! I have always thought that if CUSA would just give us a chance to compete with the likes of Houston, UTEP, Rice, SMU, Tulsa, etc. Why has UNT always been on the outside looking in? Facilities? Location? Academics?

Deep, I know that you have been around long enough to know the answer to this one....COMMITMENT.

Finally, the students, administration and BOR have commited to advancing UNT's athletic cause. Hopefully, a large number of alumni will also join in.

It takes money to run a class program. We have made a few feeble attempts to raise money, mostly under Hayden Fry, with less than moderate success because we were stonewalled by the administration. Especially under Dr. Hurley, North Texas was far more concerned with building academics than athletics and they deemed that they did not have the money to do both. Thankfully, it wasn't money squandered. Dr. Hurley did a fine job of improving academics.

The old psyche of the administration was that we don't want outside donations because donors dictate where their money should go. You'd think that would be fine because it would either go where the administration wanted it to go in the first place or it would be for things that the administration would not have to provide. Except dictating donors means that the administration would lose control. I never understood that manner of thinking because the administration did not have to take the donation. They could've kept their control and still advanced the university with outside dollars.

There is also another stigma associated with our program. We haven't tried to develop "friends" in high places, at least in the athletic sense. We have had no one to champion our cause. Enter Lane Rawlins, a president who has contacts in both the academic and athletic communities. He has also hired the most persuasive consultant, Chuck Neinas. If we can get this football program turned around then I believe that those two will have us in a higher profile conference soon.

Edited January 28, 2011 by GrayEagle