Josh White

NCMeanGreen · January 21, 2011

Seems like Josh White is having a quiet season. I am not saying he is not productive, or having a good season...just seems like he is not mentioned much anymore on the board or in the press. Is it because all/most of the focus is now on TT?

Any thoughts??

CMJ · January 21, 2011

Seems like Josh White is having a quiet season. I am not saying he is not productive, or having a good season...just seems like he is not mentioned much anymore on the board or in the press. Is it because all/most of the focus is now on TT?

Any thoughts??

He's still our 2nd leading scorer? Before the last couple of games he'd actually been on a bit of a tear. I think he's the soul of the team.

risinggreen · January 21, 2011

Yes, Josh is a great basketball player and possibly the overall most important player on this team, but for the most part his shot has been a little off this year. Don't know if he's being overworked defensively or what, but it sure would be nice if he could get back to shooting close to 46% from the land of 3 (and 2) like he did his Freshman season. On the positive side, he does seem to be taking better care of the ball this year, and he was on a pretty nice run before these last two statistically forgettable games. We're really going to need his shot from here on out.

All About UNT · January 21, 2011

I knew this would come up because I almost posted it myself.....until I looked at the numbers.

ESPN Josh White

His defensive rebounds have plummeted but his scoring is on par with last year.

He has just had two low scoring/performing games in a row that's why we are asking....but overall everything is still on pace

2009-2010 Points Per Game 14.5

2010-2011 13.8

2009-2010 Rebounds Per Game 1.9

2010-2011 2.2

Free Throw % 2009-2010 82%

2010-2011 86%

Field Goal % 2009-2010 41%

2010-2011 44%

GrandGreen · January 21, 2011

One of the reasons, Josh is a great player; he just doesn't take a lot of bad shots. There are a lot of games that he will not score many but is content to pass and do other things that will win the game. Other games, he can offensively take over the game. Frankly, after his freshman year, I thought he might be close to a twenty points a game player, but it just hasn't happened and I am not sure that is not a good thing. If White has an off game due to a defense concentrating on him or if just is not connected, you don't have to worry about him tossing up twenty shots. However, opposing teams have to know what he can do and play him tough, opening up the other players.

risinggreen · January 21, 2011

I knew this would come up because I almost posted it myself.....until I looked at the numbers.

ESPN Josh White

His defensive rebounds have plummeted but his scoring is on par with last year.

He has just had two low scoring/performing games in a row that's why we are asking....but overall everything is still on pace

2009-2010 Points Per Game 14.5
2010-2011 13.8

2009-2010 Rebounds Per Game 1.9
2010-2011 2.2

Free Throw % 2009-2010 82%
2010-2011 86%

Field Goal % 2009-2010 41%
2010-2011 44%

His numbers certainly aren't bad, but his Freshman year looks to be his best statistically so far. Just speculation, but I remember thinking that his threes seemed to be suffering when they moved the 3 point line back a foot after his Freshman season, and maybe he still hasn't quite adjusted to it. Being our primary PG instead of playing his more natural 2 position probably hasn't been great for his stats either.

KRAM1 · January 21, 2011

One of the reasons, Josh is a great player; he just doesn't take a lot of bad shots. There are a lot of games that he will not score many but is content to pass and do other things that will win the game. Other games, he can offensively take over the game. Frankly, after his freshman year, I thought he might be close to a twenty points a game player, but it just hasn't happened and I am not sure that is not a good thing. If White has an off game due to a defense concentrating on him or if just is not connected, you don't have to worry about him tossing up twenty shots. However, opposing teams have to know what he can do and play him tough, opening up the other players.

I definitely agree with your comment about Josh being a great player. I have no argument with you there at all. I love Josh White and he has been great for UNT. However, please don't talk about "not taking a lot of bad shots". OK, maybe we should define "a lot of bad shots". I guess I agree with you that there are not "a lot", but each and every game Josh throws up 3-5 "prayers" that just make me crazy, and they seem to come at the strangest of times...like when UNT is just going on a bit of a run, or has just regained the lead...and boom...stupid shot and pretty much out of control. However, there is no one on the team i want with the ball in his hands at the end when UNT is trying to run out the clock on a close game. Foul Josh and you get one of the best FT shooters we have.

So, yes, love Josh...but, please stop giving me those 3-5 mini heart attacks each and every game! I'll wager that we see 3-5 Saturday night, but I'll also wager that Josh comes out of his mini-slump to lead the Mean Green to another win! Thanks for the good times, Josh...definitely the leader of this team!

GO MEAN GREEN! See you Saturday at the game!

GrandGreen · January 21, 2011

I definitely agree with your comment about Josh being a great player. I have no argument with you there at all. I love Josh White and he has been great for UNT. However, please don't talk about "not taking a lot of bad shots". OK, maybe we should define "a lot of bad shots". I guess I agree with you that there are not "a lot", but each and every game Josh throws up 3-5 "prayers" that just make me crazy, and they seem to come at the strangest of times...like when UNT is just going on a bit of a run, or has just regained the lead...and boom...stupid shot and pretty much out of control. However, there is no one on the team i want with the ball in his hands at the end when UNT is trying to run out the clock on a close game. Foul Josh and you get one of the best FT shooters we have.

So, yes, love Josh...but, please stop giving me those 3-5 mini heart attacks each and every game! I'll wager that we see 3-5 Saturday night, but I'll also wager that Josh comes out of his mini-slump to lead the Mean Green to another win! Thanks for the good times, Josh...definitely the leader of this team!

GO MEAN GREEN! See you Saturday at the game!

I guess we have different standards. The biggest fault i have with Josh is his drives to the basket that often end with a blocked shot but at other times he mystifies the crowd scoring among the trees. IMO this most often happens when NT is going through a bad offensive stretch and he is trying to get something going. He will try to take over a game particularly at the end if the rest of the team is in an offensive slump. Getting shots blocked by someone over a foot taller is questionable basketball but he does score occasionally and often takes over the game with free throws. It is not that he doesn't miss shots or end in some bad positions driving to the basket but he at least to me doesn't throw up shot after shot when they are not falling.

I do think that plaing the point has hurt his offensive game, but at best 5'8; there are not a lot of options.

KRAM1 · January 21, 2011

I guess we have different standards. The biggest fault i have with Josh is his drives to the basket that often end with a blocked shot but at other times he mystifies the crowd scoring among the trees. IMO this most often happens when NT is going through a bad offensive stretch and he is trying to get something going. He will try to take over a game particularly at the end if the rest of the team is in an offensive slump. Getting shots blocked by someone over a foot taller is questionable basketball but he does score occasionally and often takes over the game with free throws. It is not that he doesn't miss shots or end in some bad positions driving to the basket but he at least to me doesn't throw up shot after shot when they are not falling.

I do think that plaing the point has hurt his offensive game, but at best 5'8; there are not a lot of options.

So, did you give me the -1? Why? We seem to agree, really. I also agree with your assertion that Josh should not have had to play point. I have always thought he was much better suited as a #2 who played point out of necessity. I don't think anyone could really read my post and not think that I believe Josh has been a true asset and leader for this team. But, if you have watched him all these years, and I know you have, he does throw up 3-5 prayers every game. I just don't like seeing a point guard (or any player) do that sort of thing. No, he doesn't "gun it" from long range very often when the shots aren't falling, and as I said, is who I want at the line when the game is on the line, but he drives when he should hold it up and wait, and gets himself in positions that there is no way he can make the shot (OK, sometimes he does). My "standard" is for my senior point guard to run the offense and play strong defense, and to not have 3-5 "brain freezes" per game where he just throws junk up and prays that he either gets fouled or that, somehow, the ball goes in. I doubt that much different from your standards as I know yours are pretty high...as well they should be. See you Saturday! I know he'll both be watching Josh "do his thing" and bring the Mean Green home with another "W".

GO MEAN GREEN!

CMJ · January 21, 2011

I'd venture to say - most, if not all, PG's worth their salt will make seemingly reckless drives to the basket if their team is struggling to try and get something going.

CMJ · January 21, 2011

His numbers certainly aren't bad, but his Freshman year looks to be his best statistically so far. Just speculation, but I remember thinking that his threes seemed to be suffering when they moved the 3 point line back a foot after his Freshman season, and maybe he still hasn't quite adjusted to it. Being our primary PG instead of playing his more natural 2 position probably hasn't been great for his stats either.

Statistically his best season may have been his freshman year. However, I think he's a much more complete player now than he was then. He also had Ben Bell (one of the more underrated players we've had the last ten years) to play the point for long stretches of time, allowing Josh to be off the ball a whole lot.

Edited January 21, 2011 by CMJ

MeanGreenTexan · January 21, 2011

I'd venture to say - most, if not all, PG's worth their salt will make seemingly reckless drives to the basket if their team is struggling to try and get something going.

I agree with this, and what makes it even better is that Josh is so quick that the other team often has to foul him, and we all know how well Josh shoots from the stripe.

The only detriment is when Josh recklessly goes into the paint and gets his shot swatted hard because he's so short. That happens to him maybe 1/4 of the times he does this. It really gives the other team a boost of confidence.

UNT90 · January 21, 2011

Statistically his best season may have been his freshman year. However, I think he's a much more complete player now than he was then. He also had Ben Bell (one of the more underrated players we've had the last ten years) to play the point for long stretches of time, allowing Josh to be off the ball a whole lot.

This. I love Josh, but he is so much better playing shooting guard, his natural position.

GrandGreen · January 21, 2011

So, did you give me the -1? Why? We seem to agree, really. I also agree with your assertion that Josh should not have had to play point. I have always thought he was much better suited as a #2 who played point out of necessity. I don't think anyone could really read my post and not think that I believe Josh has been a true asset and leader for this team. But, if you have watched him all these years, and I know you have, he does throw up 3-5 prayers every game. I just don't like seeing a point guard (or any player) do that sort of thing. No, he doesn't "gun it" from long range very often when the shots aren't falling, and as I said, is who I want at the line when the game is on the line, but he drives when he should hold it up and wait, and gets himself in positions that there is no way he can make the shot (OK, sometimes he does). My "standard" is for my senior point guard to run the offense and play strong defense, and to not have 3-5 "brain freezes" per game where he just throws junk up and prays that he either gets fouled or that, somehow, the ball goes in. I doubt that much different from your standards as I know yours are pretty high...as well they should be. See you Saturday! I know he'll both be watching Josh "do his thing" and bring the Mean Green home with another "W".

GO MEAN GREEN!

Hate to break it to you, but I didn't give you a minus 1 if that is really a concern. I would never give anyone a negative because of a difference of opinion. You think he drives to the basket to force a shot, I think he does that most often because the offense is stagnant and he is trying to get something going. Bottom line, it results in great plays occasionally and looks very bad at other times. I do not think he averages any where close to 3-5 bad plays a game although that would be obviously based on the criteria used. As much as he handles the ball, he is going to have turnovers and bad decisions but again to me he is an ultimate team player.

Army of Dad · January 21, 2011

I knew this would come up because I almost posted it myself.....until I looked at the numbers.

ESPN Josh White

His defensive rebounds have plummeted but his scoring is on par with last year.

He has just had two low scoring/performing games in a row that's why we are asking....but overall everything is still on pace

2009-2010 Points Per Game 14.5
2010-2011 13.8

2009-2010 Rebounds Per Game 1.9
2010-2011 2.2

Free Throw % 2009-2010 82%
2010-2011 86%

Field Goal % 2009-2010 41%
2010-2011 44%

How did they "plummet"? And what kind of rebounding did you expect from our (listed at)5'10" point guard?

greenminer · January 22, 2011

Tt is our scoring ATM. White does not seem to be pressured to take that role. Josh has matured to understand what his role is in JJ's system.

All About UNT · January 22, 2011

How did they "plummet"? And what kind of rebounding did you expect from our (listed at)5'10" point guard?

why don't you review those stats for yourself (this years) before charging me up? All I am saying is that he started with a good solid average of 2-3 a night...the second half of games this season (thus far) not so much. Feel free to look at the link I posted.

Army of Dad · January 24, 2011

why don't you review those stats for yourself (this years) before charging me up? All I am saying is that he started with a good solid average of 2-3 a night...the second half of games this season (thus far) not so much. Feel free to look at the link I posted.

Then why would you show yearly totals to support your argument?

I think the yearly averages are more meaningful in terms of this discussion anyway as game by game stats can fluctuate wildly. For example in most of our losses Josh didn't get more than one defensive rebound. Could that be because our opponents are missing fewer shots?

To get back to another point of mine, just what kind of rebounding numbers do you expect from Josh? I think that just about whatever boards he get are at least as much a function of lucky bounces as hard work or hustle on his part.

Censored by Laurie · January 24, 2011

Are we seriously having an argument over the rebounding numbers of a 5'8" guard?

Josh has been remarkably consistent over the course of his career here...and pretty much all statistical variations and anomalies have a legitimate explanation...save for maybe the 8% drop in FT percentage between his sophomore and junior season.

Josh's shooting percentage dipped after his freshman year b/c A. He was no longer a secret and became the point of emphasis for opponents' defensively and B. He didn't have Ben Bell keeping him primarily off the ball.

His scoring numbers are right on par with last season, and he's doing it more efficiently (42%FG as Jr. / 45% as Sr., lower 3% than last season, but he's also taking nearly 1 fewer three/game.)

His assist/turnover has been between 1.2 and 1.6 his 3 years on the ball.

90% of Josh's rebounds are circumstance more than anything else.

I mean, if we really want something to bitch about, he's really going to have to improve his interior defensive presence if he wants to match his block total (2) from a year ago.

Army of Dad · January 24, 2011

That was pretty much my point CBL.

meangreendork · January 24, 2011

I...I don't see a problem with his performance. If he's not shooting, he's part of positioning the ball for the best shot. I think this thread is kind of wasted.

Green P1 · January 24, 2011

Are we seriously having an argument over the rebounding numbers of a 5'8" guard?

Josh has been remarkably consistent over the course of his career here...and pretty much all statistical variations and anomalies have a legitimate explanation...save for maybe the 8% drop in FT percentage between his sophomore and junior season.

Josh's shooting percentage dipped after his freshman year b/c A. He was no longer a secret and became the point of emphasis for opponents' defensively and B. He didn't have Ben Bell keeping him primarily off the ball.

His scoring numbers are right on par with last season, and he's doing it more efficiently (42%FG as Jr. / 45% as Sr., lower 3% than last season, but he's also taking nearly 1 fewer three/game.)

His assist/turnover has been between 1.2 and 1.6 his 3 years on the ball.
T
90% of Josh's rebounds are circumstance more than anything else.

I mean, if we really want something to bitch about, he's really going to have to improve his interior defensive presence if he wants to match his block total (2) from a year ago.

I didn't have time to read much of your post.. Are we seriously having an argument over the shot blocking numbers of a 5'8" guard?