Bcs Vs Non Aq Schools

[meangreenbob]

Honestly, how many more FCS schools must move up to the so called D1A level before the BCS finally says, enough is enough and severs the relationship between them and the non AQ schools?

That day is coming soon. So what conferences and what schools will make the cut and by what standard? What schools will find themselves right back where they started from when it's all said and done, D2A?

Is the creation of mega conferences for the non AQ schools the only solution and hope for being included in the BCS of the future?

Just wondering.

[meangreenbob]

Should the present conferences be divided up into two major divsions with the champion of each playing for the national title? Say eliminate one of the current conferences by absorption?

NATIONAL

ACC

Sun Belt

BE

MWC

Big Ten

AMERICAN

PAC

CUSA

SEC

MAC

BIG 12

Edited January 21, 2011 by meangreenbob

[meangreenbob]

It would only take three weeks of playoffs to get to the title game of each division. Eliminate the top 20 rankings.

[meangreenbob]

You could still have maybe 10 bowl games for the second and third place finishers in each conference of each division. You could set the bowl sights somewhere different every year and opponents would be selected by lottery.

Edited January 21, 2011 by meangreenbob

[Yellow Snow]

Honestly, how many more FCS schools must move up to the so called D1A level before the BCS finally says, enough is enough and severs the relationship between them and the non AQ schools?

That day is coming soon. So what conferences and what schools will make the cut and by what standard? What schools will find themselves right back where they started from when it's all said and done, D2A?

Is the creation of mega conferences for the non AQ schools the only solution and hope for being included in the BCS of the future?

Just wondering.

Interesting question.

It is my firm belief that “mega” conferences are not likely to happen, at least not on the scale the media likes to put forth. There are way too many drawbacks relative to the positives.

Smaller conferences, like the MAC or CUSA, might very well expand to 16 teams, but existing AQ conferences are unlikely to do so. The main reason for any conference to expand is to increase the TV revenue generated by demand to watch member schools athletic events. Conferences like the MAC or CUSA would add value by expanding into new markets. The additional TV revenue from more conference coverage will offset the decrease in money each school gets due to dividing the pie by more schools. This would be a net gain in the long run. The MWC adding UNT would be a great example of this. The Dallas (Texas in general) TV market adds more value to the conference than UNT would take away. Net gain all around.

On the other hand, the Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12 and SEC already have immensely rich TV contracts. Each member schools would LOSE money by adding teams. The Big 12 actually gained net worth for each school by losing Colorado and Nebraska. The Denver (and Nebraska) TV markets were lost, but that is more than made up for by dividing the remaining pie by two less teams.

How would the Big 10 get to 16 teams or so and still add value to each school’s bottom line? I suppose they could poach teams from other conferences… but that is still dependent on getting the right teams. Obviously, Texas, USC, Ohio State, Alabama, etc., would add value and increase the net income for a conference able to add them. The trouble is, all of those schools are in very favorable positions as it stands. There is little to no motivation to move. Texas proved that this past summer. Non-marquee schools like Iowa, Kansas, Arkansas, Washington, or Kansas State wouldn’t bring enough additional TV revenue to any conference to be worth dividing the TV money into more slices.

Another thing to consider is the changing landscape of media in general. As time goes by, TV will be less and less important for coverage of college sports in general. We are seeing that at Iowa State now. Every event (men’s basketball, football, wrestling, etc.) is streamed online for a subscription fee if not picked up by the Big 12 TV network. This fundamental shift in availability will put WAY more emphasis on how people actually WATCH the games, not how many people live in the coverage footprint. Advertisers (who pay the TV contract money) are really more interested in number of eyeballs on TV sets (or online streams) than eyeballs living in a city that never even see their ads. Iowa State alums living in Miami could subscribe to the Big 12 network stream despite not being in the “footprint” of the conference. There is a lot of talk about adding this market or that market, but if nobody in said city (Denver for example) actually watches the games or even cares about the nearby college there is zero net gain for the TV network. Big 12 is seeing this with Colorado.

The Pac 12 kind of got screwed in the whole alignment deal. Colorado jumped to make sure they weren’t left out when Texas et al. jumped. They basically wanted to beat Baylor to the punch and not be left out. When Texas didn’t go, the Pac 12 was left with an extra school that didn’t bring squat to the table and were force to add Utah to balance things out. They ended up having to divide the pie by two more schools who don’t add as much value as they take away in TV revenue.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Yellow Snow

[meangreendork]

Hey Bob, did it ever occur to you to just edit your first post instead of making 556 replies to yourself? There's a button for that.

[LongJim]

Hey Bob, did it ever occur to you to just edit your first post instead of making 556 replies to yourself? There's a button for that.

Did it ever occur to you that there's a button for PM's, too?

Edited January 21, 2011 by LongJim

[meangreenbob]

Hey Bob, did it ever occur to you to just edit your first post instead of making 556 replies to yourself? There's a button for that.

You know I did give that some consideration but here is why I didn't:

1) They were all independent thoughts and I didn't want them to get lost in the body of a tome. That would have been an infringement on Plumms territory. hehehe. You can laugh now.

2) I am trying to get my post count up? hehehe.

But with that being said its too bad that you didn't have anything constructive to say concerning the idea. Good, bad or just plain stupid. No big deal though. I am not offended.

[golfingomez]

Should the present conferences be divided up into two major divsions with the champion of each playing for the national title? Say eliminate one of the current conferences by absorption?

NATIONAL

ACC

Sun Belt

BE

MWC

Big Ten

AMERICAN

PAC

CUSA

SEC

MAC

BIG 12

American would win every year... that side is loaded...

[MeanMag]

There are 246 teams in FBS and FCS. That means half will be in the FBS.

The Auto bid conferences are already in their own league, the Auto Qualifiers League which happens to be a subset of the FBS subdivision. There is no reason to leave the same division as non-AQ teams because there is already a separation.

The absolute only way that a team will be able to get noticed going forward and change status is if the fans force it. It takes either tons of fans, or tons of money, and some combination of both. Currently, UNT needs both to change the status.

[meangreenbob]

There are 246 teams in FBS and FCS. That means half will be in the FBS.

The Auto bid conferences are already in their own league, the Auto Qualifiers League which happens to be a subset of the FBS subdivision. There is no reason to leave the same division as non-AQ teams because there is already a separation.

The absolute only way that a team will be able to get noticed going forward and change status is if the fans force it. It takes either tons of fans, or tons of money, and some combination of both. Currently, UNT needs both to change the status.

Yes, but if they really wanted to allow all of the BCS teams an equal shot at the National Title this is one way it would work. No conference team would have to change their schedules. Everything would stay the same. If any of the non AQ teams at this time are considered members of a weaker conference than most likely they would be eliminated during the first round of the playoffs.

However, there would be some interesting upsets from time to time and like the Big Dance in College Basketball it would make the tournament interesting.

You could still have some bowl games for the second and third place finishers of each conference so that even though a team might not be in contention for their conference title they still have something to play for.

I know it won't happen because if all teams have a shot at playing for the title then it would make it easier for the current non AQ teams to recruit against the so called elite conferences.

But this would work.

Edited January 23, 2011 by meangreenbob

[Side Show Joe]

Honestly, how many more FCS schools must move up to the so called D1A level before the BCS finally says, enough is enough and severs the relationship between them and the non AQ schools?

That day is coming soon. So what conferences and what schools will make the cut and by what standard? What schools will find themselves right back where they started from when it's all said and done, D2A?

Is the creation of mega conferences for the non AQ schools the only solution and hope for being included in the BCS of the future?

Just wondering.

I've also thought about this question lately. I keep hoping LA Tech, Utah State, NMSU, and maybe Idaho, will just go independent, and finish off the WAC. Texas State, UTSA, and now talk of Utah Valley moving up to try and save the conference is getting kind of sad. I mean Utah Valley??? Really??? At some point, the few teams in the WAC that should stay at the FBS level need to realize that moving these teams up will do more harm then good. I can't see the AQs being happy about teams like Utah Valley moving up.

If the MWC expands and adds two teams, and at least one of those teams comes from the WAC, I say the Sun Belt should go ahead and expand to 12 by pulling from the WAC. I don't really want to expand, but if it will finish off the WAC, and end these FCS teams from moving up, I'd be willing to jump on the grenade and expand. New Mexico State would be my first choice.

It is my opinion that the non AQs need to put an end to what the WAC is doing, because if we don't, I think the AQs and NCAA will, and some non AQ conferences will be cast down too. lets be proactive on this issue.

[rcade]

As time goes by, TV will be less and less important for coverage of college sports in general. We are seeing that at Iowa State now. Every event (men’s basketball, football, wrestling, etc.) is streamed online for a subscription fee if not picked up by the Big 12 TV network. This fundamental shift in availability will put WAY more emphasis on how people actually WATCH the games, not how many people live in the coverage footprint.

That's an argument for local TV markets mattering less, not TV in general. The TV deals are enormous and getting bigger with each passing year. TV is the biggest reason the BCS cartel was set up and the non-AQs are getting squeezed out.

[rcade]

I don't really want to expand, but if it will finish off the WAC, and end these FCS teams from moving up ...

As UNT fans we complain about the BCS colluding to keep non-AQ teams out of the national championship hunt.

Isn't it hypocritical for us to take the same attitude about FCS schools getting into the non-AQ conferences?

I think as many schools as possible should get into the FBS. The bigger the non-AQ portion of the FBS, the more alumni around the country have a vested interest in breaking up the BCS cartel.

[meangreenbob]

As UNT fans we complain about the BCS colluding to keep non-AQ teams out of the national championship hunt.

Isn't it hypocritical for us to take the same attitude about FCS schools getting into the non-AQ conferences?

I think as many schools as possible should get into the FBS. The bigger the non-AQ portion of the FBS, the more alumni around the country have a vested interest in breaking up the BCS cartel.

Thats precisely my point. The bigger the non-AQ portion of the FBS the more likely the BCS will break up. But it won't be by surrendering to the wants and needs of the non-AQ schools. They will just sever ties with the current non-AQ schools and conferences period, form their own Association, institute a playoff system and that will be the end of it. And they will own all the huge money making TV contracts and air time. Why do you think so many schools are trying to get into a BCS conference. To play for a national title? Yes and no. The main reason is they don't want to be forever excluded when the BCS members pick up their marbles and leave taking with them the chance and opportunity to compete for a national title with them.

All those that don't make it will be right back where they started and will have to form their own Association, insitute their own playoff system, hopefully negociate TV contracts with the cabel networks for whatever money and air time is left and hope for the best.

If this happens maybe one day the non-AQ league will challenge the old BCS to a playoff game and it will become the national title game. Kinda like the old AFL vs NFL.

Who knows?

[rcade]

Thats precisely my point. The bigger the non-AQ portion of the FBS the more likely the BCS will break up. But it won't be by surrendering to the wants and needs of the non-AQ schools. They will just sever ties with the current non-AQ schools and conferences period, form their own Association, institute a playoff system and that will be the end of it.

What makes you think the BCS will be able to get away with that? Congress would get involved.

[Side Show Joe]

As UNT fans we complain about the BCS colluding to keep non-AQ teams out of the national championship hunt.

Isn't it hypocritical for us to take the same attitude about FCS schools getting into the non-AQ conferences?

I think as many schools as possible should get into the FBS. The bigger the non-AQ portion of the FBS, the more alumni around the country have a vested interest in breaking up the BCS cartel.

That won't break the BCS cartel. They will just redefine the divisions again and North Texas along with many other non-AQ schools will probably be casted out of the higher level, and removed from any chance to play in the top tier games. I don't want to see that. I'm not happy with the BCS system in place either, but if North Texas were ever able to go undefeated, we'd at least have a shot at a ranking and a BCS game. If the divisions were redefined, that would probably not be the case. Texas already has 10 FBS schools. We don't need 12. the FBS division already has around 120 teams. We don't need more. I'm not saying we should keep other current FBS programs from advancing, like many AQ conferences seem to advicate. I just want to keep FCS schools from messing up our current situation as FBS members. If that's hypocritical then fine. I'm OK with that.

[Side Show Joe]

What makes you think the BCS will be able to get away with that? Congress would get involved.

You hope. Congress tends to look out for only tow interest groups:

1. Congress and

2. Which ever lobby group gives the biggest campaign contribution.

Last I heard J.C. Watts was the lobbiest for the BCS. Congressman Hatch out of Utah was looking into the BCS situation, but I haven't heard much from him since Utah got an invite to the PAC 12.

Do we really have someone looking out for us? I don't think so.

[golfingomez]

What makes you think the BCS will be able to get away with that? Congress would get involved.

It wouldn't be the BCS, this would just be the top tier schools of College Football leaving the NCAA to go make their own league...

nothing binds them to stay with the NCAA... there would be nothing Congress could do...

the possibilities of this are endless...

new rules, scholarships, possibly start paying players...

[rcade]

nothing binds them to stay with the NCAA... there would be nothing Congress could do...

Congress could easily exert power over colleges, as it did with Title IX. Any school receiving federal financial assistance -- can you say student loans and Pell grants? -- is vulnerable to having the feds put the thumbscrews to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX

[Cerebus]

Congress could easily exert power over colleges, as it did with Title IX. Any school receiving federal financial assistance -- can you say student loans and Pell grants? -- is vulnerable to having the feds put the thumbscrews to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX

Not that I approve of this but... the BCS is tax exempt, I am sure the congress could direct the IRS to see if they did or did not "(i) pay excessive compensation to their executives, (ii) make undisclosed lobbyist contributions, (iii) intervene in political campaigns, and (iv) provide substantial private benefit to insiders."

[ValleyBoy]

That won't break the BCS cartel. They will just redefine the divisions again and North Texas along with many other non-AQ schools will probably be casted out of the higher level, and removed from any chance to play in the top tier games. I don't want to see that. I'm not happy with the BCS system in place either, but if North Texas were ever able to go undefeated, we'd at least have a shot at a ranking and a BCS game. If the divisions were redefined, that would probably not be the case. Texas already has 10 FBS schools. We don't need 12. the FBS division already has around 120 teams. We don't need more. I'm not saying we should keep other current FBS programs from advancing, like many AQ conferences seem to advicate. I just want to keep FCS schools from messing up our current situation as FBS members. If that's hypocritical then fine. I'm OK with that.

The only way the BCS cartel will be broken is if a true playoff system is put in place that gives and equal shot at winning the NCAA Football Championship. This is one reason that some FCS football schools fans do not want to move up FBS. They would rather be able to play for a true National Championship that the chance to play a lower tier bowl game.

Loud and Clear: College Football Players Want Playoff

http://www.ncpanow.org/releases_advisories?id=0013

[Rudy]

This gives me tired head.

[Yellow Snow]

The only way the BCS cartel will be broken is if a true playoff system is put in place that gives and equal shot at winning the NCAA Football Championship. This is one reason that some FCS football schools fans do not want to move up FBS. They would rather be able to play for a true National Championship that the chance to play a lower tier bowl game.

Loud and Clear: College Football Players Want Playoff

http://www.ncpanow.org/releases_advisories?id=0013

I dont understand why you guys think the BCS is the devil.

Go back to the old bowl system, and there is no chance any non-AQ team plays in any of the BCS bowls (BYU back in the 80s ONCE in history notwithstanding). Boise and TCU have recently played in (and won) bowls they would never have had the opportunity to play in under the old system. Non-AQ conferences may have had teams more than worthy of playing in these bowls in the past, but there was zero chance they got the opportunity. The BCS actually forces these bowls to take them. You dont think the Rose Bowl would have taken Stanford in lieu of TCU if given the choice? This bumps every team in TCUs (or Boises) conference up a rung on the bowl ladder. Thus, the BCS system benefits non-AQ conferences more than the old system did. Yet most of you want the BCS system to be abolished?

Ok then, we dont want the old bowl system (agree?). We should to go to a playoff where every conference winner gets seeded and they all play for the national title. This gives every conference an opportunity to put a school up for a shot at the title, right? Is this fair to all involved? Well I suppose it would be fair, but does it really improve the chances a non-AQ school like TCU or Boise would win the title? No. Lets say there are all 11 conference champs, plus one wildcard that get into the playoff. The top two seeds in each bracket get first round byes and games are played in the home stadiums of the higher seeded teams. That would mean that a team like TCU, Boise, North Texas, Iowa State, or whoever would not only have to win the conference, but then would have to win at a minimum 3 more games against other conference champs to win the title. As it is now, TCU (or Boise, etc.) only has to go undefeated (most likely) against their normal schedule. Then they get a month to prepare for one game. Win that game and you are champs.

The fact that TCU got left out of the championship this year sucks for them, but I have yet to see any argument other than the BCS is rigged that convinces me TCU should have replaced either Auburn or Oregon. Besides, this argument is going to happen anyway with a playoff, as seeding would be VITALLY important to teams chances. There would be just as much vitriol and debate about seeding as we see now in the BCS rankings.

Soooo, considering the above, why is the BCS so terrible? From my perspective it is a pretty good system. It actuality benefits the little guy more than it hurts us.

Conference TV packages are another deal, but until teams like TCU, Boise, and Iowa State start to draw fans and national followings, we are going to be slighted by the media. TV ratings and bowl games cater to the masses. Alabama, Ohio State, Texas, etc., have enough fan equity built up that they are desired by the bowls and media alike. If UNT or Iowa State had the historical fan appeal and gate draw these teams have, no doubt there would be more desire to have teams like us in the major bowls. These big time teams get the preferential nod because they draw. Right or wrong they have earned the attention they get due to their salability. Get Iowa State or North Texas where they are and wed get the same treatment. Its all about money. There isnt a way around it. THAT is what makes the system a popularity contest. That said; the BCS is a pretty good deal for teams from non-AQ conferences that can win.

Lemme ask you guys this. Would you guys prefer to have UNT win the Sun Belt, go to a mid-tier bowl, and kick some poor hapless MAC teams ass, or travel to Columbus and get curb stomped to end the season? As an Iowa State fan, give me the Alamo bowl against Illinois over an ass kicking by USC any day of the week. We have enough ass kickings on the schedule every year to suit my taste.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Yellow Snow

[MeanMag]

I don’t understand why you guys think the BCS is the devil.

Go back to the old bowl system, and there is no chance any non-AQ team plays in any of the BCS bowls (BYU back in the 80’s ONCE in history notwithstanding). Boise and TCU have recently played in (and won) bowls they would never have had the opportunity to play in under the old system. Non-AQ conferences may have had teams more than worthy of playing in these bowls in the past, but there was zero chance they got the opportunity. The BCS actually forces these bowls to take them. You don’t think the Rose Bowl would have taken Stanford in lieu of TCU if given the choice? This bumps every team in TCU’s (or Boise’s) conference up a rung on the bowl ladder. Thus, the BCS system benefits non-AQ conferences more than the old system did. Yet most of you want the BCS system to be abolished?

Ok then, we don’t want the old bowl system (agree?). We should to go to a playoff where every conference winner gets seeded and they all play for the national title. This gives every conference an opportunity to put a school up for a shot at the title, right? Is this fair to all involved? Well I suppose it would be fair, but does it really improve the chances a non-AQ school like TCU or Boise would win the title? No. Let’s say there are all 11 conference champs, plus one wildcard that get into the playoff. The top two seeds in each bracket get first round byes and games are played in the home stadiums of the higher seeded teams. That would mean that a team like TCU, Boise, North Texas, Iowa State, or whoever would not only have to win the conference, but then would have to win at a minimum 3 more games against other conference champs to win the title. As it is now, TCU (or Boise, etc.) only has to go undefeated (most likely) against their normal schedule. Then they get a month to prepare for one game. Win that game and you are champs.

The fact that TCU got left out of the championship this year sucks for them, but I have yet to see any argument other than “the BCS is rigged” that convinces me TCU should have replaced either Auburn or Oregon. Besides, this argument is going to happen anyway with a playoff, as seeding would be VITALLY important to teams’ chances. There would be just as much vitriol and debate about seeding as we see now in the BCS rankings.

Soooo, considering the above, why is the BCS so terrible? From my perspective it is a pretty good system. It actuality benefits the little guy more than it hurts us.

Conference TV packages are another deal, but until teams like TCU, Boise, and Iowa State start to draw fans and national followings, we are going to be slighted by the media. TV ratings and bowl games cater to the masses. Alabama, Ohio State, Texas, etc., have enough fan equity built up that they are desired by the bowls and media alike. If UNT or Iowa State had the historical fan appeal and gate draw these teams have, no doubt there would be more desire to have teams like us in the major bowls. These “big time” teams get the preferential nod because they draw. Right or wrong they have earned the attention they get due to their “salability”. Get Iowa State or North Texas where they are and we’d get the same treatment. It’s all about money. There isn’t a way around it. THAT is what makes the system a popularity contest. That said; the BCS is a pretty good deal for teams from non-AQ conferences that can win.

Lemme ask you guys this. Would you guys prefer to have UNT win the Sun Belt, go to a mid-tier bowl, and kick some poor hapless MAC team’s ass, or travel to Columbus and get curb stomped to end the season? As an Iowa State fan, give me the Alamo bowl against Illinois over an ass kicking by USC any day of the week. We have enough ass kicking’s on the schedule every year to suit my taste.

You are acting like there are 2 options, this way or the old way and maybe some other way. There is not. College football has succeeded in spite of the BCS because at the core college football is a great product. The BCS is squandering opportunity, and college football is succeeding anyway. Add 1 game. Just one.