The Mwc

Eagle1855 · January 13, 2011

Fresh ideas anyone?

Has anyone considered an updated version of the SWC?

TIgreen01 · January 13, 2011

Why TCU ditching the other CUSA Texas teams worked for them as a MWC school I will never know--but it did.

Stop spreading this garbage. TCU ditching the other Texas teams in CUSA had FAR less to do with their success than their increased spending did. $$ talks and in TCU's case....got them exactly where they are now.

Unless UNT is going to follow TCU's plan and outspend everyone else in the conference, don't expect us to have the same success that they had should we join the MWC.

H-towngreen · January 13, 2011

I think we should go with helmet stickers to increase out national exposure. Thoughts?

cdizzle86 · January 13, 2011

I think we should go with helmet stickers to increase out national exposure. Thoughts?

Really? Helmet stickers? We need a newer logo on our helmets and to switch back to our old, darker shade of green before we even think about helmet stickers.

untjim1995 · January 13, 2011

FWIW, I think CUSA has the most bowl tie-ins of any non-AQ.

Something to consider when arguing media prestige/exposure...

SMU played a bowl game against Army at SMU, UCF played in the Liberty Bowl in Memphis, Tulsa played in the Hawaii Bowl, East Carolina played in a bowl in Washington DC, USM played in St. Pete's bowl game, and UTEP played in the Albuquerque Bowl game against an MWC team (albeit one that is leaving in BYU).

Boise State played in the LV bowl against Utah, Hawaii played Tulsa at home bowl game, Fresno State lost in the Boise Bowl, San Diego State played at home in the Poinsettia bowl, AFA played in the Indy Bowl in Shreveport, and Nevada played in the SF bowl game.

6 bowl teams for each conference, based on the new alignment for the MWC. Going forward, the MWC has teams that will continue to host bowl games in Boise, Hawaii, Albuquerque, Las Vegas, and San Diego. The bowl game in San Francisco probably will involve an MWC team going forward, too. It seems that would be just as good a lineup as anything that CUSA throws out there.

I just don't buy the MWC gets less respect thatn CUSA. All I have ever read for a decade is how if the AQ-BCS added a league, it would have been the MWC. Heck, there were years where the mighty SBC held their own against CUSA. CUSA is definitely above the MAC and the SBC, and now the remnants of the WAC, back it is no where near as prestigious in football or mens hoops as the MWC. I pray that the MWC wants back in Texas so badly that it will take us in if UH or SMU decline the invite.

Mean Green 93-98 · January 13, 2011

If we have a separate forum for the new stadium, we definitely need a separate forum for conference talk.

UNTX · January 13, 2011

According to the MWC fans on their board, they would MUCH rather have UTSA and/or Texas State over us. It's been making me want to vomit reading the lovefest they've been having for our former Southland mates over the last few days. I don't get it but I'm just thankful it would be conference school presidents making this kind of decision and not the ignorant/naive fans on this site.

MWC Discussion 1

MWC Discussion 2

Edited January 13, 2011 by UNTX

PlummMeanGreen · January 13, 2011

Stop spreading this garbage. TCU ditching the other Texas teams in CUSA had FAR less to do with their success than their increased spending did. $$ talks and in TCU's case....got them exactly where they are now.

Unless UNT is going to follow TCU's plan and outspend everyone else in the conference, don't expect us to have the same success that they had should we join the MWC.

Having lived in or near Fort Worth most my adult life while knowing numerous TCU alums during this time I'm very aware of what TCU has spent and what they have done to promote their product in Cowtown. Have observed it quite closely in fact thinking if TCU can git'er done why not North Texas? What a waste of mental energy that was during those years.

No, we don't have TCU's money and yes, they have spent very much money, yet Boise State did not spend near as much and have had as much success as TCU I feel most would agree. (Who beat TCU just last year in a bowl)?

I think UNT can do what Boise has done in due time once we flush our multi-decade's long stinkin' thinkin' and poor athletic dept. hirings (with its subsequent & "expected" poor leadership) of the last 30 years (+/-) in Denton and flush it down the toilet where it belongs. Our expecations at UNT were set low a long time ago and it will take more than a new stadium to change many attitudes, but that new stadium will be a great place for that to start happening.

The part I will be interested to observe since what goes up usually comes down is how sweet the Big East will be for TCU if they run a chain of .500 or less W/L records together. :blink: In a recent FW Star Telegram sports feature TCU Coach Patterson freely admitted that it "wasn't so long ago when we were drawing 10,000 at ACS on Game Day." (I guess the SMU att. counter was padding some of their numbers, too, since Patterson in deed said....10,000) but......money will do much for a program yet losing a whole bunch (like we have done) will undo its positive effects in a short amount of time.

PlummMeanGreen · January 14, 2011

According to the MWC fans on their board, they would MUCH rather have UTSA and/or Texas State over us. It's been making me want to vomit reading the lovefest they've been having for our former Southland mates over the last few days. I don't get it but I'm just thankful it would be conference school presidents making this kind of decision and not the ignorant/naive fans on this site.

MWC Discussion 1

MWC Discussion 2

Let's let that same group of MWC smack board posters you are talking about take an aerial photograph observation at UNT's entire sports complex versus the other 2 Texas schools and see if they still feel the same. I think most would easily predict they would not feel the same.

Don't we know by now how fickle conference smack board posters can be? :rolleyes:

GMG!

PS: I mean can't we of UNT now say we have better major varsity sports venues than SMU starting with our new football palace (upon completion) and the fabulous 10,000+ seat Super Pit?

ColoradoEagle · January 14, 2011

According to the MWC fans on their board, they would MUCH rather have UTSA and/or Texas State over us. It's been making me want to vomit reading the lovefest they've been having for our former Southland mates over the last few days. I don't get it but I'm just thankful it would be conference school presidents making this kind of decision and not the ignorant/naive fans on this site.

I've created this chart to help you understand their thought pattern.

All About UNT · January 14, 2011

Yeah the comments by Evil Vodka cause me to want to flog him for being such an uninformed doucher. How can you argue that Texas St. is not a commuter school? If they weren't then their attendance numbers at games would show something different. UTSA is not a commuter school? Really??? Have you been to that campus?

stebo · January 14, 2011

Is the MWC simply the new WAC? Yep, basically... but it is the WAC from when the WAC was very good.

WAC Membership (1995)

In the last 17 years, 10 out of 11 WAC members have moved to the MWC, 8 of the 11 will still be in the MWC in 2012:

New Mexico

Wyoming

Colorado State

San Diego State

Hawaii

Air Force

Fresno State

UNLV

Utah

BYU

UTEP

MWC Membership (2012) – 8 out of 10 members will be WAC teams from 1995.

New Mexico

Wyoming

Colorado State

San Diego State

Hawaii

Air Force

Fresno State

UNLV

Nevada-Reno

Boise

All About UNT · January 14, 2011

Our record vs those teams:

(Our wins vs theirs)

New Mexico (1-1)

Wyoming (never played)

Colorado State (2-1)

San Diego State (1-6)

Hawaii (never played)

Air Force (0-1)

Fresno State (2-0)

UNLV (0-4)

Nevada-Reno (2-8)

Boise (3-2)

Got5onIt · January 14, 2011

I wish you would've typed UTSA being considered for the MWC alot earlier in your post so I could have stopped reading and saved a few minutes of my life. Total BS.

GrayEagle · January 14, 2011

Yeah the comments by Evil Vodka cause me to want to flog him for being such an uninformed doucher. How can you argue that Texas St. is not a commuter school? If they weren't then their attendance numbers at games would show something different. UTSA is not a commuter school? Really??? Have you been to that campus?

Being called a commuter school shouldn't be a problem if it's answered correctly. Hell, the University of Texas is a commuter school by definition and it doesn't hurt them. There simply aren't enough dorm beds to qualify. The vast majority live in or near Austin but not on campus. There are enough that live around the city of Denton that I've never had the feeling of North Texas being a commuter school. I can't speak to Texas State but I am curious as to where they commute from. Probably most of them live around San Marcos.

I'd wager that very few universities have enough dorm space to cover the percentage required to NOT be considered a commuter campus if the student enrollment is 30,000 and up.

UNTFan23 · January 14, 2011

There's no way UTSA and TSU-SM will be going to the MWC this time around as they have hitched their carriage to the WAC. To suddenly switch dance partners would mean hefty fines. The only way those two schools get any consideration is if the MWC decides to not expand past the current membership and sit in a holding pattern for a few years.

SilverEagle · January 14, 2011

Being called a commuter school shouldn't be a problem if it's answered correctly. Hell, the University of Texas is a commuter school by definition and it doesn't hurt them. There simply aren't enough dorm beds to qualify. The vast majority live in or near Austin but not on campus. There are enough that live around the city of Denton that I've never had the feeling of North Texas being a commuter school. I can't speak to Texas State but I am curious as to where they commute from. Probably most of them live around San Marcos.

I'd wager that very few universities have enough dorm space to cover the percentage required to NOT be considered a commuter campus if the student enrollment is 30,000 and up.

The University of South Florida (according to it's web-site) opened it's doors in 1960 to 2000 students. Today they claim to have 47K students in their "system". Now, there is no way in hell that they built dorms to house even a fourth of that number. Yet, I never hear anyone call them a commuter school. And even if someone does, I think they can live with that label, since they are in the Big East.

shaft · January 14, 2011

I have it on high authority that the MWC is going to wait a season see how they feel about the new alignment and if they want to expand add Utah State and UTEP. My source is the article from the guy who broke the BYU story that I posted weeks ago.

UNT and UTSA have great market access, but don't "bring the market" in the terms of ratings. Plumm and I had a lovely discussion about that topic a few weeks ago as well.

Yellow Snow · January 14, 2011

Because CUSA makes a lot more money than the MWC and has more national exposure due to a low install base for the Mtn. Also, I'm sure most of our alums would rather see us in CUSA than the MWC if given the choice, which should tell you all you need to know of why those schools probably don't want to jump. As others have said, though, the choice between the SBC and the MWC isn't a choice at all.

I totally disagree with the national exposure comment.

As a nonpartisan observer, I’d say that the MWC carries more “prestige” nationally than CUSA does. Given both as an option as UNT president I would sign with the MWC no questions asked.

My perception may not reflect the actual quality of football, but if somebody were to ask me which conference was a “better” football conference I’d say the MWC without hesitation. I’d venture to say that most people who don’t have a rooting interest in either conference feel the same.

All this talk of the MWC and its potential AQ status this summer during all of the re-alignment talk probably influences my thinking quite a bit. There was zero such talk of CUSA in this manner. Even though TCU left, that AQ discussion sticks in peoples heads and the MWC is benefiting from it even now. Believe me… during all of the Armageddon talk among Big 12 fans, I was preparing myself for the worst. We Iowa State fans were hoping to get a Big East invite if the Big 12 folded (which looks like it would have happened). Universally, we would have hoped for a MWC invite over any other conference not named the Big 10.

What is UNT’s stance on accepting partial qualifiers? One of the things you guys seem to be overlooking when discussing the “rise” of Boise State is their entrance requirements. They can take an unlimited number of partial qualifiers, while the Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 12 schools cannot (don’t know the specifics, but I think Big 12 schools get 1 partial qualifier for football). There are a hell of a lot of good west coast players that can’t get into USC, Washington, Cal, etc. or any other AQ school for that matter. Boise can take AQ quality players without as much recruiting competition.

If UNT accepts partial qualifiers like Fresno and Boise you will be able to kick the MWC’s ass. You guys would have by FAR the best recruiting territory covered and with the facility upgrades your infrastructure would be second to none. Your coaching staff is AQ both in experience and pay grade. Why would the MWC be after ANY CUSA schools, or UTSA or Texas State for that matter? That’s a serious question. I can’t think of a single reason UNT shouldn’t get the nod over these schools. Maybe you guys know something I don’t. Not having been immersed in the culture of UNT or other schools in question, I don’t really have any preconceived notions of “pecking order”, etc. Maybe that makes me naïve, but based on potential I see going forward there is no reason to NOT think of UNT in the same frame of mind as Colorado State, Air Force, New Mexico, etc. Seriously.

Anyhoo... I like the conference discussions

Sorry about the long post.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Yellow Snow

PlummMeanGreen · January 14, 2011

I totally disagree with the national exposure comment.

As a nonpartisan observer, I’d say that the MWC carries more “prestige” nationally than CUSA does. Given both as an option as UNT president I would sign with the MWC no questions asked.

My perception may not reflect the actual quality of football, but if somebody were to ask me which conference was a “better” football conference I’d say the MWC without hesitation. I’d venture to say that most people who don’t have a rooting interest in either conference feel the same.

All this talk of the MWC and its potential AQ status this summer during all of the re-alignment talk probably influences my thinking quite a bit. There was zero such talk of CUSA in this manner. Even though TCU left, that AQ discussion sticks in peoples heads and the MWC is benefiting from it even now. Believe me… during all of the Armageddon talk among Big 12 fans, I was preparing myself for the worst. We Iowa State fans were hoping to get a Big East invite if the Big 12 folded (which looks like it would have happened). Universally, we would have hoped for a MWC invite over any other conference not named the Big 10.

What is UNT’s stance on accepting partial qualifiers? One of the things you guys seem to be overlooking when discussing the “rise” of Boise State is their entrance requirements. They can take an unlimited number of partial qualifiers, while the Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 12 schools cannot (don’t know the specifics, but I think Big 12 schools get 1 partial qualifier for football). There are a hell of a lot of good west coast players that can’t get into USC, Washington, Cal, etc. or any other AQ school for that matter. Boise can take AQ quality players without as much recruiting competition.

If UNT accepts partial qualifiers like Fresno and Boise you will be able to kick the MWC’s ass. You guys would have by FAR the best recruiting territory covered and with the facility upgrades your infrastructure would be second to none. Your coaching staff is AQ both in experience and pay grade. Why would the MWC be after ANY CUSA schools, or UTSA or Texas State for that matter? That’s a serious question. I can’t think of a single reason UNT shouldn’t get the nod over these schools. Maybe you guys know something I don’t. Not having been immersed in the culture of UNT or other schools in question, I don’t really have any preconceived notions of “pecking order”, etc. Maybe that makes me naïve, but based on potential I see going forward there is no reason to NOT think of UNT in the same frame of mind as Colorado State, Air Force, New Mexico, etc. Seriously.

Anyhoo... I like the conference discussions

Sorry about the long post.

Long post? Perserverity of wordage is a sign that you just have a lot on your mind to talk about. Personally, I can say in 1,000 words what some can say in 10 but I get far more keyboard practice with the 1,000. :rolleyes:

Seriously, the upside of the MWC versus CUSA as a league which IMHO will have more Top 25 ranked schools over the long haul. And you are right, no one in CUSA ever talks about one day their league being an AQ conference but rather 1 or 2 of its schools may hint about moving to one already established. The MWC would be almost too good to be true and is one reason I try to reserve my excitement of its possibilities.

The University of North Texas massive-acres olympic style village'esque Mean Green Village with the new football stadium as its soon-to-be shining buckle could not have happened at a better time in our history and that no matter how long ago I thought this should have actually been done which would have prevented what we've had to go through the last 3 decades with our consntat roller-coaster ride. Finally, though, we have leadership at the top who "get it" at North Texas.

GMG!

Edited January 14, 2011 by PlummMeanGreen

rcade · January 14, 2011

The Mountain West would be a big upgrade for UNT. I'm not a Belt basher, but we'd be crazy not to take an invite if offered.

ColoradoEagle · January 14, 2011

I totally disagree with the national exposure comment.

As a nonpartisan observer, I’d say that the MWC carries more “prestige” nationally than CUSA does. Given both as an option as UNT president I would sign with the MWC no questions asked.

My perception may not reflect the actual quality of football, but if somebody were to ask me which conference was a “better” football conference I’d say the MWC without hesitation. I’d venture to say that most people who don’t have a rooting interest in either conference feel the same.

Sure, the MWC is and will be a better football conference after all is said and done. The point is that they're handcuffed by the Mtn and its low install base (vs. CUSA's contract with ESPN and now Fox Sports). A breakout team like TCU is going to get coverage everywhere, but the rest will be lucky to be on TV once a year. This translates through to dollars, especially for a school like NT where the Mtn is virtually unavailable in DFW.

If both invites come, we'd take the CUSA invite without another thought.

wardly · January 14, 2011

The Mountain West would be a big upgrade for UNT. I'm not a Belt basher, but we'd be crazy not to take an invite if offered.

i don't see us being attractive to the mwc, and i also don't see us moving west.its just a bigger, better big west/wac conference.in fact, i believe that utep, houston, and smu are happy in cusa. looks like if mwc does go to 12, it will be utah st. and a player to be named latter. good chance they stay at 10. presidents of mwc meet later this month, so we should know something in a few weeks. i thought our " consultant" recommened we stick to our knitting, become a player again in the belt , and hopefully good things will happen.am i wrong on that?

Mean Green 93-98 · January 14, 2011

i don't see us being attractive to the mwc, and i also don't see us moving west.its just a bigger, better big west/wac conference.in fact, i believe that utep, houston, and smu are happy in cusa. looks like if mwc does go to 12, it will be utah st. and a player to be named latter. good chance they stay at 10. presidents of mwc meet later this month, so we should know something in a few weeks. i thought our " consultant" recommened we stick to our knitting, become a player again in the belt , and hopefully good things will happen.am i wrong on that?

I am sure Chuck Neinas would include a Mountain West invite as one of those "good things."