The Denia Morons Are Pi$$Ed Again

[Mean Green 93-98]

I can't remember where I saw it, but I'm pretty sure all MGC members will be able to park at the new stadium for tailgating. Non-members will still have to park at Fouts, and the NT Blvd bridge will be turned into a walkway only on game days.

That will make getting to and from Fouts parking an absolute nightmare, as far as driving is concerned.

[KRAM1]

OK, let's all find something to worry and complain about with the brand new beautiful stadium before the first game is even played. That's the ticket! This thread is beginning to be a beat down. Can we not wait and see how this all goes before the rocks start flying? Good grief. This is just amazing. Why not have a re-vote and let's stay at Fouts? The way some of this is heading you would think people loved Fouts and were totally against building a new stadium.

Who here does not think that the greatness of the new stadium far outweighs any inconvenience that the Mean Green fan base might encounter in the first few years before all the traffic flow and tailgate situations get ironed out? Come on folks, if there is one thing EVERYONE should be positive about, it's that bright shiny new stadium. let's give the "stadium" negativity a rest.

Too many good things are happening due to that stadium to pick at a few things that will get worked out given time. WOW...just WOW!

GO MEAN GREEN!

[ColoradoEagle]

That will make getting to and from Fouts parking an absolute nightmare, as far as driving is concerned.

I'm sure what they would do is allow you to exit NT Blvd like normal, but the westbound lane of NT would be shut down along with the entire bridge. Coming from the north, there'd be temp signs to exit Bonnie Brae. The traffic setup is just my guess (although I don't know what other options where would be), but I do remember reading that MGC members will be able to park at the stadium/dorm parking lot.

Edited January 3, 2011 by ColoradoEagle

[Army of Dad]

I never lived on Campus, always in an apartment off-campus, but in Denton. Eating at restaurants in town, working and spending in that town. The school is tax exempt, but the 35,000 students and thousands of faculty are not. I don't think it's as burdonsome as you portray.

But the truth is, just like in every situation, start with the end in mind. Involve all affected parties and move the process forward anticipating all the needs for your prpject. Anything less is mis-management. Period. And Corinth/HV/Flower Mound built a new bridge and road thru solid neighborhoods in 3-5 yrs...Environmental Impact Studies, public forums and the like.

We're talking about widening existing roads and making needed improvements to a decades old on/off ramp. One new 4 lane road. This is all manageable and should have been in the works, if not started on or even close to completed, by now.

You do realize that Loop 288 was widened and as soon as construction was finished they close one lane in each direction because DCTA needed a bridge built over 288 and they couldn't coordinate the construction to take place when the road was being rebuilt! If you were expecting a manageable, started or close to completion project like this then you haven't been paying attention.

[UNTLifer]

And the dirty truth that no one at Denton would ever publicly admit, but is certainly there: universities are already municipal freeloaders. A city will never recoup the cost of UNT's tax-exempt status, and yet bears the cost of providing services both directly to the university and indirectly to the student population. So it may not be the most accurate thing to say Denton is doing nothing for the university - they may not be comfortable parting with additional monies to an entity which isn't paying for what it has already received.

I'll address what you call "the dirty truth." NT has provided Denton with sales tax revenue from 30,000+ students, faculty and staff for years. NT has provided Denton with facilities to host events that draws people to Denton to stay in their hotels, eat in their resturants and shop in their retail outlets. Those apartments around campus wouldn't provide customers to the electric coop, rental income to land owners and property taxes to the city without the North Texas. I wish someone would provide an economic impact study showing the effects North Texas has on the Denton community. The dirty truth is that Denton has been mismanaged for years, has the worst streets in the Metroplex, has run economic developers away to neigboring cities over minute issues (Fry Street) and has sucked off of the NT/TWU teet for years, yet never misses an opportunity to champion a vocal minority, Denia residents, or to rundown North Texas.

A mutual partnership would do wonders for Denton, but they just can't let North Texas grow in to the university it should be, because they continue to wish it were the sleepy little Teacher's College from years ago.

[TIgreen01]

OK, let's all find something to worry and complain about with the brand new beautiful stadium before the first game is even played. That's the ticket! This thread is beginning to be a beat down. Can we not wait and see how this all goes before the rocks start flying? Good grief. This is just amazing. Why not have a re-vote and let's stay at Fouts? The way some of this is heading you would think people loved Fouts and were totally against building a new stadium.

Who here does not think that the greatness of the new stadium far outweighs any inconvenience that the Mean Green fan base might encounter in the first few years before all the traffic flow and tailgate situations get ironed out? Come on folks, if there is one thing EVERYONE should be positive about, it's that bright shiny new stadium. let's give the "stadium" negativity a rest.

Too many good things are happening due to that stadium to pick at a few things that will get worked out given time. WOW...just WOW!

GO MEAN GREEN!

No, dude....I love the new stadium, but we're looking to attact people to come back to football games at UNT. Making the vast majority wind through a traffic nightmare to find parking, then hike a mile over a highway is hardly going to leave them with a good impression, regardless of the quality of the new stadium or the team playing in it. If the plan is to simply "tough it out" for the first few years while we wait for the city, and UNT administration to "get ironed out" then we're going to lose steam right out of the gate as the people who aren't die-hards could care less about toughing it out.

I don't know....maybe I'm overreacting?

[KRAM1]

No, dude....I love the new stadium, but we're looking to attact people to come back to football games at UNT. Making the vast majority wind through a traffic nightmare to find parking, then hike a mile over a highway is hardly going to leave them with a good impression, regardless of the quality of the new stadium or the team playing in it. If the plan is to simply "tough it out" for the first few years while we wait for the city, and UNT administration to "get ironed out" then we're going to lose steam right out of the gate as the people who aren't die-hards could care less about toughing it out.

I don't know....maybe I'm overreacting?

I belive you are...along with a good many others.

[ColoradoEagle]

No, dude....I love the new stadium, but we're looking to attact people to come back to football games at UNT. Making the vast majority wind through a traffic nightmare to find parking, then hike a mile over a highway is hardly going to leave them with a good impression, regardless of the quality of the new stadium or the team playing in it. If the plan is to simply "tough it out" for the first few years while we wait for the city, and UNT administration to "get ironed out" then we're going to lose steam right out of the gate as the people who aren't die-hards could care less about toughing it out.

I don't know....maybe I'm overreacting?

Yes. It won't be any more of a "traffic nightmare" than it was at Fouts. I would be surprised if the distance between the Fouts lot to the new stadium was more than half a mile, and I'm sure the school will run shuttle service for seniors and families with small children. Anyone not in that situation who is that concerned with walking half a mile needs to hit the treadmill and/or join the MGC.

Edited January 3, 2011 by ColoradoEagle

[stebo]

Satellite development, which is what you're referencing, is almost never worth the cost it takes to attract it. Tax Abatements seldom work as intended for this very reason - it is usually a losing propostion unless you can get office tower-level density.

Let's take your 35,000 and round it up to 40,000 for argument's sake. Let's assume that all the students are employed and are making the Denton average per capita income ($19,365), rounded up to $20,000 for simplicity. Let's assume that they are somehow able to convert 25% of that to discretionary income (after tax, rent or mortgage, insurance, medical, property maintenance, child support, inflation, raw foods, and sundries). Finally, let's assume that they spend every penny of that discretionary income within the city limits of Denton on taxable items. This gives us a pool of $200 million in taxable spending. The City's take of that is 2%, which means a total revenue impact of $4 million.

Operationally, let's just look at public safety. This would mean that no student, professor, or employee uses any service other than the bare essentials (police/court and fire). Denton's per capita public safety spending is approximately $360 ($43 million/119,454). So the net public safety cost of serving a population of 40,000 is $14 million.

Revenues - $4 million. Expenditures (just the very very basics) - $14 million.

Realize the realities are much, much different. There's no way you're even close to that kind of revenue number, and no way the cost of service is as low as $14 million. The 40,000 you mention comprose fully one third of Denton's total population. To have the infrastructure and organization contribute nothing in the way of taxes is ALWAYS a losing proposition. The benefit to the Denton community is the prestige of being home to one of the best universities in the Country, not anything financial.

Well, that is a bit unfair. Students bring in money from other sources. They have financial aid - half goes to the University, the rest is spent at local establishments. The University is not tax exempt from sales tax - so all those purchases have sales tax revenue for the city. This is not even counting the money brought into the city by students that have parents helping out, college accounts, etc.. I would not count students as poverty level spenders - they are not on food stamps or welfare, they actually have more discretionary spending money than the average earner because their liabilities are so low (no mortgages, very low overhead to live, etc..)

[FloMoGrad]

Well, that is a bit unfair. Students bring in money from other sources. They have financial aid - half goes to the University, the rest is spent at local establishments. The University is not tax exempt from sales tax - so all those purchases have sales tax revenue for the city. This is not even counting the money brought into the city by students that have parents helping out, college accounts, etc.. I would not count students as poverty level spenders - they are not on food stamps or welfare, they actually have more discretionary spending money than the average earner because their liabilities are so low (no mortgages, very low overhead to live, etc..)

Kind of the point I was driving at, and he only looked at student body. What about those working for the school, paying property taxes and the same.

And my discretionary income was significantly higher in college than it is now with a burgeoning young family and stay at home wife.

Still don't think UNT is the burden on Denton Ill makes it out to be...

[Mean Green 93-98]

Well, that is a bit unfair. Students bring in money from other sources. They have financial aid - half goes to the University, the rest is spent at local establishments. The University is not tax exempt from sales tax - so all those purchases have sales tax revenue for the city. This is not even counting the money brought into the city by students that have parents helping out, college accounts, etc.. I would not count students as poverty level spenders - they are not on food stamps or welfare, they actually have more discretionary spending money than the average earner because their liabilities are so low (no mortgages, very low overhead to live, etc..)

How many eating/drinking establishments in Denton would go out of business within a month if UNT moved elsewhere?

[SteaminWillieBeamin]

I don't see how UNT being Denton's (by far) the largest employer can ever be considered a free loader. UNT has its own police force and medical facility. It would require the city's fire department, but when is the last time that was needed? It is really that big of a drag? They pay a water bill, trash bill and energy bill.

I don't *get* the freeloader term.

</scatter_shootin>

Edited January 3, 2011 by SteaminWillieBeamin

[yyz28]

Denton would be the next Prosper if it weren't for UNT and TWU. ...just the next little town to be sucked up by the sprawling metroplex mass and turned into every other burb in the area who's own identity has all but been erased. ...a wide spot in the road and a pretty old court house.

Denton is what it is today BECAUSE of the Universities and DESPITE itself and the no growth flat-earth morons who raise a stink about progress that has been on the march for generations around them.

I REJECT that UNT is a drain on Denton. Denton has the tax-base and infrastructure it does today thanks largely in part to the Universities in the communities, which are growing, despite the cities and vocal minorities best efforts.

Long after this little neighborhood is a distant memory, their houses shall sit in the shadow of our 150,000 seat domed monstrosity (painted bright ass green, of course, complete with windmills) and they will hear our laughter at their miserable existence day and night.

Go Mean Green!

[oldschoollefty]

Denton would be the next Prosper if it weren't for UNT and TWU. ...just the next little town to be sucked up by the sprawling metroplex mass and turned into every other burb in the area who's own identity has all but been erased. ...a wide spot in the road and a pretty old court house.

Denton is what it is today BECAUSE of the Universities and DESPITE itself and the no growth flat-earth morons who raise a stink about progress that has been on the march for generations around them.

I REJECT that UNT is a drain on Denton. Denton has the tax-base and infrastructure it does today thanks largely in part to the Universities in the communities, which are growing, despite the cities and vocal minorities best efforts.

Long after this little neighborhood is a distant memory, their houses shall sit in the shadow of our 150,000 seat domed monstrosity (painted bright ass green, of course, complete with windmills) and they will hear our laughter at their miserable existence day and night.

Go Mean Green!

As Montgomery Burns would say...

Excellent!