Vito - Wright Yet To Sign

[MeanGreen61]

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/archives/2010/12/for-what-its-worth----wright-h.html

[UNTLifer]

Come on Ronnell. You would look great in Green and can follow in the footsteps of an NFL Hall of Famer, plus, you won't find a better coaching staff or facilities out there.

[Cooley]

Coaches must have found out that the kid rotated with another DT and did not offer!

[UNTLifer]

Nope, he was offered. If this is in reference to Granger not being offered, FFR noted that he missed his flight, which I knew at the time of my post about him rotating, but I didn't know if that nugget of information was to be made public.

[Cooley]

Nope, he was offered. If this is in reference to Granger not being offered, FFR noted that he missed his flight, which I knew at the time of my post about him rotating, but I didn't know if that nugget of information was to be made public.

I'm confused! (Which is not new) Did he catch a later flight? Because he was in Denton, right? Wasn't it Wright that stated that before he left (from his visit) that Granger told him that would soon commit also? Didn't the Osborn kid state that they (Granger) talked often during their visit? Some please clarify. Just don't understand the fact the he may have missed a flight which is what contributed to UNT not offering. Not trying to stir up trouble but curious.

As for as the thought that a player (2nd string or alternate) may not be that good enough can be misleading. One of our Hall of Famers (Jordan Case) backed up Ken Washington. Case didn't alternate! He was not better than Washington. I was very critical of UNT offering Apunku in HS. The kid did not start on a decent Cedar Hill defense. I realize that he because a starter in the middle of the season. There have been others over the years that NT offered who alternated in HS or JC.

[SilverEagle]

I'm confused! (Which is not new) Did he catch a later flight? Because he was in Denton, right? Wasn't it Wright that stated that before he left (from his visit) that Granger told him that would soon commit also? Didn't the Osborn kid state that they (Granger) talked often during their visit? Some please clarify. Just don't understand the fact the he may have missed a flight which is what contributed to UNT not offering. Not trying to stir up trouble but curious.

As for as the thought that a player (2nd string or alternate) may not be that good enough can be misleading. One of our Hall of Famers (Jordan Case) backed up Ken Washington. Case didn't alternate! He was not better than Washington. I was very critical of UNT offering Apunku in HS. The kid did not start on a decent Cedar Hill defense. I realize that he because a starter in the middle of the season. There have been others over the years that NT offered who alternated in HS or JC.

Yes he was better.....as were several others during that general time frame....including Jordan Case's eventual backup Joe Stevenson. My brother-in-law used to cover North Texas Football for the Gainesville paper, and he told me that when Ken Washington was out for injuries in 1975, he was replaced by Ken Smith and Glenn Ray. Both were considered by many of their teammates to be better than Ken Washington.

Edited December 29, 2010 by SilverEagle

[Cooley]

Yes he was better.....as were several others during that general time frame....including Jordan Case's eventual backup Joe Stevenson. My brother-in-law used to cover North Texas Football for the Gainesville paper, and he told me that when Ken Washington was out for injuries in 1975, he was replaced by Ken Smith and Glenn Ray. Both were considered by many of their teammates to be better than Ken Washington.

Absolutely not!!! Ken Washington, in my opinion, has been the best QB this school has had since 1975, Period! Joe Stevenson was a personal friend and a member of the same social organization I belong to. Silver, Joe was not in the same league as Washington or Case. I took a class with both Ken Smith and Glenn Ray. As we frequently talked NTSU football, they often marveled about Washington as the starting QB. I also believe that Washington was the best high school quarterback in Texas. (Coming out of Port Arthur Lincoln) I honestly don't ever remember Ray or Smith playing much beyond mop up duty. (during my first year in 1975 or after) We did not miss a beat with Case when Lil Ken graduated.

I'm sure we all can agree that Hayden Fry has been our best coach. Coach Fry rightfully appointed Washington as his QB with Jordan Case as his very capable backup. Now, I can possibly understand a debate between Washington and Case but certainly not the others. Many of today's Hall of Fame nominations/selections have/are watered down. (In all sports) However, the athletic department got it right with Washington, Case and Fry.

http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1800&ATCLID=138740

Edited December 29, 2010 by Cooley

[UNTLifer]

I'm confused! (Which is not new) Did he catch a later flight? Because he was in Denton, right? Wasn't it Wright that stated that before he left (from his visit) that Granger told him that would soon commit also? Didn't the Osborn kid state that they (Granger) talked often during their visit? Some please clarify. Just don't understand the fact the he may have missed a flight which is what contributed to UNT not offering. Not trying to stir up trouble but curious.

As for as the thought that a player (2nd string or alternate) may not be that good enough can be misleading. One of our Hall of Famers (Jordan Case) backed up Ken Washington. Case didn't alternate! He was not better than Washington. I was very critical of UNT offering Apunku in HS. The kid did not start on a decent Cedar Hill defense. I realize that he because a starter in the middle of the season. There have been others over the years that NT offered who alternated in HS or JC.

Honestly Cooley, I don't know if we offered Granger or not, but he did miss his flight and we scrambled to get him on a later flight. That was told to me by someone that would know. Not sure the reason, but that never looks good whether it is a recruiting trip, job interview, etc... I did speculate that possibly Osborn was more appealing since he didn't split time with another QB as Granger did with Xavier Johnson, who it appears NT is/was also recruiting. I'm not saying a second string player may not be good enough, but how many second string HS or JUCO QB's are offered scholarships to major universities?

[SilverEagle]

Absolutely not!!! Ken Washington, in my opinion, has been the best QB this school has had since 1975, Period! Joe Stevenson was a personal friend and a member of the same social organization I belong to. Silver, Joe was not in the same league as Washington or Case. I took a class with both Ken Smith and Glenn Ray. As we frequently talked NTSU football, they often marveled about Washington as the starting QB. I also believe that Washington was the best high school quarterback in Texas. (Coming out of Port Arthur Lincoln) I honestly don't ever remember Ray or Smith playing much beyond mop up duty. (during my first year in 1975 or after) We did not miss a beat with Case when Lil Ken graduated.

I'm sure we all can agree that Hayden Fry has been our best coach. Coach Fry rightfully appointed Washington as his QB with Jordan Case as his very capable backup. Now, I can possibly understand a debate between Washington and Case but certainly not the others. Many of today's Hall of Fame nominations/selections have/are watered down. (In all sports) However, the athletic department got it right with Washington, Case and Fry.

http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1800&ATCLID=138740

Ken Washington came to North Texas because Hayden Fry promised him that he would play QB and not RB or WR like all the other schools wanted him to play.....and for good reason. Hayden was a man of his word because that is what Ken Washington played the whole time he was here.

Ken Washington had a strong arm, but he was VERY undisciplined as a QB. He would often run around in the backfield when he couldn't spot a receiver open, and try to make something happen with his feet....Fran Tarkington style. Sometimes he accomplished that with a big scramble, but just as often he would lose big yardage on a scramble. His passing style was to "fling" the ball not pass it. Ken Washington was an outstanding athlete who unfortunately was allowed to play QB. Ken Washington and Riley Dodge are very much alike, only Riley Dodge has much more discipline as a QB.

I don't care how many classes or social groups you shared with the aforementioned group of QB's, you obviously didn't see the same quality of play that I did. As of the 2004 media guide Ken Washington was the 7th overall ranked QB in total yards passing with 3040. Joe Stevenson was not on that top ten list because he only started about 14 or 15 games in his career. Ken Washington had four years as a starter at QB (when he wasn't hurt). But when Joe Stevenson was the starter he usually won the game and he was a QB, not just a great athlete playing at QB.

In his 14 or 15 starts as a QB, Joe Stevenson had 5 games of 200 yards or more passing. Ken Washington didn't have any in all his four years of being the starter.

Ken Washington got NT a lot of pub, because he was Joe Washington's brother and because he was a QB of color, which was very rare during that time. But he was not better than any of the guys that we've been discussing.

BTW, many think that Ken Washington was the first QB of color that came to NT and actually played QB, but that's not true. Does anyone know who the first was?

[good_ken]

The answer is 4. 4 replies before someone could tie a 2010 Defensive Tackle recruit back to Hayden Fry.

This could be fun, I think I will start to track this.

[Cooley]

Ken Washington came to North Texas because Hayden Fry promised him that he would play QB and not RB or WR like all the other schools wanted him to play.....and for good reason. Hayden was a man of his word because that is what Ken Washington played the whole time he was here.

Ken Washington had a strong arm, but he was VERY undisciplined as a QB. He would often run around in the backfield when he couldn't spot a receiver open, and try to make something happen with his feet....Fran Tarkington style. Sometimes he accomplished that with a big scramble, but just as often he would lose big yardage on a scramble. His passing style was to "fling" the ball not pass it. Ken Washington was an outstanding athlete who unfortunately was allowed to play QB. Ken Washington and Riley Dodge are very much alike, only Riley Dodge has much more discipline as a QB.

I don't care how many classes or social groups you shared with the aforementioned group of QB's, you obviously didn't see the same quality of play that I did. As of the 2004 media guide Ken Washington was the 7th overall ranked QB in total yards passing with 3040. Joe Stevenson was not on that top ten list because he only started about 14 or 15 games in his career. Ken Washington had four years as a starter at QB (when he wasn't hurt). But when Joe Stevenson was the starter he usually won the game and he was a QB, not just a great athlete playing at QB.

In his 14 or 15 starts as a QB, Joe Stevenson had 5 games of 200 yards or more passing. Ken Washington didn't have any in all his four years of being the starter.

Ken Washington got NT a lot of pub, because he was Joe Washington's brother and because he was a QB of color, which was very rare during that time. But he was not better than any of the guys that we've been discussing.

BTW, many think that Ken Washington was the first QB of color that came to NT and actually played QB, but that's not true. Does anyone know who the first was?

Silver, sounds like you never went to a game! Between talking to your Brother-in-Law and reading media guides, your sources have you confused. Yes, most SWC schools and others incorrectly assumed that African American kids could not play quarterback. Most kids that played the position in HS were quickly converted to WR or DB. (Fact) Can you name 2 other African American quarterbacks around the entire country during that era? Hell, there were probably more D1 African American head coaches than quarterback. Hayden Fry recruited Jerry Levias to SMU as the first African American to play in the SWC. He also became one of the best of all times. This wasn't about keeping his word but getting the best players on the field in their right positions.

Ken Washington was a Pro-Style quarterback (5-11 height) who rarely ran the ball; unless absolutely necessary. (This continues to be a stereotype with black quarterbacks). Ken was not a speedster (4.65) but could buy time, until a man came open. Ken could also tuck the ball and get the necessary yards for a 1st down. He always had the poise to stay with the play. My initial post/point was to help dispel the thought that we should not offer a scholarship to someone who alternated and/or backed up another. Jordan Case was the perfect example I used.

I don't know why you chose to knock Ken Washington with false and inaccurate information. If anyone saw Ken play there is no way in hell would they come away thinking this guy undisciplined! Totally False! I mentioned my past relationship with Joe Stevenson to point out that despite our relationship; he was, in my opinion, not in Ken Washington's league. Now Joe was often undisciplined; thinking that his arm could get him out of situations.

Anyway, I'm through with this topic. Ken Washington was inducted into the NT Hall of Fame long before most QB's before and after him. He also, as stated earlier, was the best QB in HS. (in my opinion) Coach Fry, as in most cases, was brilliant in seeing something others didn’t or refuse to. The rest became Mean Green history.

[SilverEagle]

Silver, sounds like you never went to a game! Between talking to your Brother-in-Law and reading media guides, your sources have you confused. Yes, most SWC schools and others incorrectly assumed that African American kids could not play quarterback. Most kids that played the position in HS were quickly converted to WR or DB. (Fact) Can you name 2 other African American quarterbacks around the entire country during that era? Hell, there were probably more D1 African American head coaches than quarterback. Hayden Fry recruited Jerry Levias to SMU as the first African American to play in the SWC. He also became one of the best of all times. This wasn't about keeping his word but getting the best players on the field in their right positions.

Ken Washington was a Pro-Style quarterback (5-11 height) who rarely ran the ball; unless absolutely necessary. (This continues to be a stereotype with black quarterbacks). Ken was not a speedster (4.65) but could buy time, until a man came open. Ken could also tuck the ball and get the necessary yards for a 1st down. He always had the poise to stay with the play. My initial post/point was to help dispel the thought that we should not offer a scholarship to someone who alternated and/or backed up another. Jordan Case was the perfect example I used.

I don't know why you chose to knock Ken Washington with false and inaccurate information. If anyone saw Ken play there is no way in hell would they come away thinking this guy undisciplined! Totally False! I mentioned my past relationship with Joe Stevenson to point out that despite our relationship; he was, in my opinion, not in Ken Washington's league. Now Joe was often undisciplined; thinking that his arm could get him out of situations.

Anyway, I'm through with this topic. Ken Washington was inducted into the NT Hall of Fame long before most QB's before and after him. He also, as stated earlier, was the best QB in HS. (in my opinion) Coach Fry, as in most cases, was brilliant in seeing something others didn’t or refuse to. The rest became Mean Green history.

I never offer opinions about players that I've never seen play. I know a good QB when I see one, and Joe Stevenson was a much better QB than Ken Washington. For that matter so was Greg Carter. But this debate can go on and on without any resolution.

BTW, here is a link to the answer to my quiz about the first QB of color that was at North Texas. This is from the 1970 season.

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth61041/m1/308/?q=woodrow

[MCMLXXX]

I never offer opinions about players that I've never seen play. I know a good QB when I see one, and Joe Stevenson was a much better QB than Ken Washington. For that matter so was Greg Carter. But this debate can go on and on without any resolution.

BTW, here is a link to the answer to my quiz about the first QB of color that was at North Texas. This is from the 1970 season.

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth61041/m1/308/?q=woodrow

Nice reference, in article, to Leonard Dunlap a former first round NFL draft pick getting 2 interceptions and 5 in two games.

[UNT Mean Green]

I thought we were talking about Ronnell Wright?

[UNTLifer]

As for as the thought that a player (2nd string or alternate) may not be that good enough can be misleading. One of our Hall of Famers (Jordan Case) backed up Ken Washington. Case didn't alternate! He was not better than Washington. I was very critical of UNT offering Apunku in HS. The kid did not start on a decent Cedar Hill defense. I realize that he because a starter in the middle of the season. There have been others over the years that NT offered who alternated in HS or JC.

What HS or JUCO backup has been offered a scholarship and been a successful D1 QB, whether at NT or somewhere else? I am sure there are a few, but that seems like an awfully big gamble to take when there are capable players that were starters out there.

[SilverEagle]

What HS or JUCO backup has been offered a scholarship and been a successful D1 QB, whether at NT or somewhere else? I am sure there are a few, but that seems like an awfully big gamble to take when there are capable players that were starters out there.

I believe that our only successful JUCO QB was Vidal Carlin.......but then he had John Love to throw to.

[GrayEagle]

I believe that our only successful JUCO QB was Vidal Carlin.......but then he had John Love to throw to.

Uhh, Silver the only second string that Vidal Carlin was JUCO All-American. He was a starter at Tyler JC.

Lifer is referring to Granger being the backup to Johnson at their JC (the name escapes me for now).