Thinking Outside The Box

SilverEagle · December 20, 2010

In looking at our situation in the d-line, and knowing that "immediate impact" d-linemen are few and far between, it would behoove our coaching staff to think outside the box.

There have been many instances through the years when coaches took players from other positions and got creative about how they could benefit the team. Two situations with North Texas come to mind.

Cedrick Hardman (the often forgotten other great defensive player from NT....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedrick_Hardman ) came to North Texas playing DB, then moved to LB, and finally moved to DE. Now, that might have happened because of a late-in-life growth spurt, but the coaching staff kept putting him in his most ideal position.

Corkey Nelson signed a JUCO all-american LB by the name of Rex Johnson. At 6'1" X 235, Rex Johnson would have been a beast at MLB, but Corkey put him at nose tackle. He played at about 240 to 245 when he was here. The results are history. He made the 1-AA all-american list.

Recently I read about a DE or DT at TCU who came to TCU as a RB. He has turned into a very outstanding player for them (someone help me out with his name). I don't know if they made the decision to move him to the defensive line when he first came to TCU or if the process of converting him started after a year or so.

I know that these instances are fairly rare, but it's beginning to look like the coaching staff may have to show how creative they are during their first season.

Thoughts?

Edited December 20, 2010 by SilverEagle

KRAM1 · December 20, 2010

Only that I tend to agree with your line of thought. We may all see just how "creative' this group can be...the good news for me is that I do think this group of coaches may be the best we have seen at UNT in quite some time and I think they are fully capable of "thinking outside the box". What makes me feel that way? Well, just the experience and the info we have seen from others who know these guys, have worked with these guys, played for these guys and played against these guys. Should be a fun-off season for the Mean green. I just hope this group is "in the game" soon enough to line up a decent recruiting class for the Mean green.

GO MEAN GREEN!

Yellow Snow · December 20, 2010

Only that I tend to agree with your line of thought. We may all see just how "creative' this group can be...the good news for me is that I do think this group of coaches may be the best we have seen at UNT in quite some time and I think they are fully capable of "thinking outside the box". What makes me feel that way? Well, just the experience and the info we have seen from others who know these guys, have worked with these guys, played for these guys and played against these guys. Should be a fun-off season for the Mean green. I just hope this group is "in the game" soon enough to line up a decent recruiting class for the Mean green.

GO MEAN GREEN!

One thing Mac did at Iowa State that he most likely will do at UNT is “grow and coach” his defensive linemen. As you know, ready to play studs, both high school and juco, are hard to come buy. They are the hardest guys to recruit.

At I-State, Mac would recruit middle linebacker types that had good size (maybe lacking some speed) and redshirt them. Hitting the weights and training table, he’d get these guys into D-line positions by the time they were redshirt sophomores or juniors. Guys that weren’t fast enough to play MLB at the Big 12 level but were plenty fast to play DL. It was a good system, as he put quite a few guys into the NFL all things considered. All of these guys ended up as NFL defensive linemen.

Jordan Carstens (Carolina) was a walk on middle linebacker from Iowa

Kevin Deronde (Dallas) was a walk on middle linebacker from Iowa

James Reed (New Orleans) little recruited LB from Michigan

Reggie Hayward (New Orleans) was a pretty highly recruited linebacker from Illinois, but had grade issues – Mac took a chance and it paid off. Moved to DE and kicked ass

Tim Dobbins (Miami) this guy was a low profile juco guy that was hell on wheels

Jason Berryman (Cincinnati) three star LB from Houston. Moved to DE and dominated

These are just the guys off the top of my head. I think you’ll see the same thing at UNT. It may seem like you’ll be recruiting a ton of linebacker types, but don’t be surprised if quite a few end up on the DL.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Yellow Snow

MeanGreenTexan · December 20, 2010

One thing Mac did at Iowa State that he most likely will do at UNT is “grow and coach” his defensive linemen. As you know, ready to play studs, both high school and juco, are hard to come buy. They are the hardest guys to recruit.

At I-State, Mac would recruit middle linebacker types that had good size (maybe lacking some speed) and redshirt them. Hitting the weights and training table, he’d get these guys into D-line positions by the time they were redshirt sophomores or juniors. Guys that weren’t fast enough to play MLB at the Big 12 level but were plenty fast to play DL. It was a good system, as he put quite a few guys into the NFL all things considered. All of these guys ended up as NFL defensive linemen.

Jordan Carstens (Carolina) was a walk on middle linebacker from Iowa

Kevin Deronde (Dallas) was a walk on middle linebacker from Iowa

James Reed (New Orleans) little recruited LB from Michigan

Reggie Hayward (New Orleans) was a pretty highly recruited linebacker from Illinois, but had grade issues – Mac took a chance and it paid off. Moved to DE and kicked ass

Tim Dobbins (Miami) this guy was a low profile juco guy that was hell on wheels

Jason Berryman (Cincinnati) three star LB from Houston. Moved to DE and dominated

These are just the guys off the top of my head. I think you’ll see the same thing at UNT. It may seem like you’ll be recruiting a ton of linebacker types, but don’t be surprised if quite a few end up on the DL.

We've certainly seen DMac's tutelage reflected in what coach Nelson was doing on our D-Line for the past 2 seasons. Quite frankly, many on here were perplexed at the moves coach Nelson was making... Maybe with DMac overseeing, coach Nelson will start getting better results out of the DLine?

SilverEagle · December 20, 2010

One thing Mac did at Iowa State that he most likely will do at UNT is “grow and coach” his defensive linemen. As you know, ready to play studs, both high school and juco, are hard to come buy. They are the hardest guys to recruit.

At I-State, Mac would recruit middle linebacker types that had good size (maybe lacking some speed) and redshirt them. Hitting the weights and training table, he’d get these guys into D-line positions by the time they were redshirt sophomores or juniors. Guys that weren’t fast enough to play MLB at the Big 12 level but were plenty fast to play DL. It was a good system, as he put quite a few guys into the NFL all things considered. All of these guys ended up as NFL defensive linemen.

Jordan Carstens (Carolina) was a walk on middle linebacker from Iowa

Kevin Deronde (Dallas) was a walk on middle linebacker from Iowa

James Reed (New Orleans) little recruited LB from Michigan

Reggie Hayward (New Orleans) was a pretty highly recruited linebacker from Illinois, but had grade issues – Mac took a chance and it paid off. Moved to DE and kicked ass

Tim Dobbins (Miami) this guy was a low profile juco guy that was hell on wheels

Jason Berryman (Cincinnati) three star LB from Houston. Moved to DE and dominated

These are just the guys off the top of my head. I think you’ll see the same thing at UNT. It may seem like you’ll be recruiting a ton of linebacker types, but don’t be surprised if quite a few end up on the DL.

Thanks Yellow Snow, the examples you gave are just what I had in mind. I like coaches (and people in general) who think outside the box.

And BTW, to furthur give Corkey his due. He was the one who made the decision to switch Earl Campbell (when he was in HS) from DE to RB when Earl was playing at Tyler. Earl thought that his chance of playing college football was ruined. But the rest, as they say, is history.

NorthTexan95 · December 20, 2010

One thing Mac did at Iowa State that he most likely will do at UNT is “grow and coach” his defensive linemen. As you know, ready to play studs, both high school and juco, are hard to come buy. They are the hardest guys to recruit.

At I-State, Mac would recruit middle linebacker types that had good size (maybe lacking some speed) and redshirt them. Hitting the weights and training table, he’d get these guys into D-line positions by the time they were redshirt sophomores or juniors. Guys that weren’t fast enough to play MLB at the Big 12 level but were plenty fast to play DL. It was a good system, as he put quite a few guys into the NFL all things considered.

Thanks for the insight. I appreciate these "Mac-nuggets" about how he did things at I-State. Keep 'em coming!

SUMG · December 20, 2010

Here's a guy that I wish the new staff would consider for the D-line. He comes from a family of great athletes, as his Mom was a great b-ball player at LSU. I'm sure at Diboll, he played both ways. And haven't we heard...he's more like 6'6", maybe 6'7":

http://www.meangreensports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=9053&SPID=562&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=1800&ATCLID=204977427&Q_SEASON=2010

I went back and looked up his recruiting stuff on Rivals. They considered him a DE possibility:

http://rutgers.scout.com/a.z?s=183&p=8&c=1&nid=3836289

Edited December 20, 2010 by SUMG

DeepGreen · December 20, 2010

SilverEagle, why do I keep thinking that Cedrick Hardman played some running back his Frosh/Soph year? Hate to give away my age but Hardman came to UNT during the mid/late '60's and I'd swear he played RB for a very short while. Maybe they tried him at that position during practice.

Edited December 20, 2010 by DeepGreen

MeanGreen61 · December 20, 2010

SilverEagle, why do I keep thinking that Cedrick Hardman played some running back his Frosh/Soph year? Hate to give away my age but Hardman came to UNT during the mid/late '60's and I'd swear he played RB for a very short while. Maybe they tried him at that position during practice.

Wasn't he originally a DB?

Edited December 20, 2010 by MeanGreen61

Yellow Snow · December 20, 2010

We've certainly seen DMac's tutelage reflected in what coach Nelson was doing on our D-Line for the past 2 seasons. Quite frankly, many on here were perplexed at the moves coach Nelson was making... Maybe with DMac overseeing, coach Nelson will start getting better results out of the DLine?

Frankly... Iowa State fans have somewhat mixed feelings about Nelson.

The defensive lines he produced at Iowa State were definitely salty. He came to Iowa State in 1997, and the d-line promptly racked up 21 sacks his first year... the highest total we had in 10 years. The following year we got 32 sacks from the defensive line (still the all time school record I think).

In 2004 ISU only gave up 139 ypg on the ground and in 2005 only gave up 103 ypg... that is ridiculously good considering we play a Big 12 schedule plus Iowa. We see some pretty good running teams every year. He can get it done.

That said I have heard (via people that talked to players) that he can be "extra abrasive" to put it nicely. I don't know how true that is as I have no first hand knowledge of the guy. He’s been coaching at UNT so you guys know what you have with him.

Your reaction to his staying on staff was pretty much the same as mine was. A bit surprised.... However, he got results at ISU with Mac as a head coach. That much can’t be argued.

SilverEagle · December 20, 2010

SilverEagle, why do I keep thinking that Cedrick Hardman played some running back his Frosh/Soph year? Hate to give away my age but Hardman came to UNT during the mid/late '60's and I'd swear he played RB for a very short while. Maybe they tried him at that position during practice.

I've heard that too Phil, but here is the "college days" section of his Wiki page.

"Hardman played college football at North Texas State University, (renamed the University of North Texas in 1988). Hardman was an All-Missouri Valley Conference football defensive lineman. In a historic manner, Hardman recorded 38 sacks in his senior season at North Texas State[1] and represented North Texas State in the Blue-Gray and Senior Bowl all-star games in 1970. Cedrick started playing college football as a defensive back, then moved to linebacker in his sophomore season. His final two college years were spent playing defensive end. Hardman was drafted with the ninth overall selection in the first round of the 1970 NFL Draft by the San Francisco 49ers."[2]

SilverEagle · December 20, 2010

SilverEagle, why do I keep thinking that Cedrick Hardman played some running back his Frosh/Soph year? Hate to give away my age but Hardman came to UNT during the mid/late '60's and I'd swear he played RB for a very short while. Maybe they tried him at that position during practice.

Here's a team photo for the 68 season. Hardman is wearing #42 in this photo.

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth61038/m1/301/?q=football

In the 1969 team photo, he's wearing #80.

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth61039/m1/260/?q=football

FloMoGrad · December 20, 2010

Outside the box, love it. Hell, it's the same philosophy a lot of NFL teams employ, think Steelers and they're converted DE's to LB's...

This is the type of thinking that gets us out of our box, out of the limiting thinking UNT fans are often caught in... So we can't go out and find a stud NT, doesn't mean we can't make our own...

Appreciate the nugs of experience YS...

NorthTexan95 · December 20, 2010

Outside the box, love it. Hell, it's the same philosophy a lot of NFL teams employ, think Steelers and they're converted DE's to LB's...

This is the type of thinking that gets us out of our box, out of the limiting thinking UNT fans are often caught in... So we can't go out and find a stud NT, doesn't mean we can't make our own...

Appreciate the nugs of experience YS...

Also think the Cowboys converting college basketball players to NFL players.

NorthTexan95 · December 20, 2010

Outside the box, love it. Hell, it's the same philosophy a lot of NFL teams employ, think Steelers and they're converted DE's to LB's...

This is the type of thinking that gets us out of our box, out of the limiting thinking UNT fans are often caught in... So we can't go out and find a stud NT, doesn't mean we can't make our own...

Appreciate the nugs of experience YS...

Also think the Cowboys converting college basketball players to NFL players.

FloMoGrad · December 20, 2010

Also think the Cowboys converting college basketball players to NFL players.

I can think of Antonio Gates from Kent State to San Diego, converting from PF to TE, but who have the cowboys recently switched from BBall to Football, or am I missing something?