How Long's The Leash

[FloMoGrad]

We can all agree that the job ahead of coach Dan is quite a large one. Our cupboards are bare in a few spots, a culture of losing permeates our program and he walks in being the highest paid coach in the history of the University and possibly the conference as well.

My real question is this: Seeing a significant and appreciable commitment of time and resources by our Athletic Dept to fielding a quality staff to play in a quality venue, how long is Coach Dan's leash.

We all thought Todd deserved at least 2 years, 1st year just to get his feet wet and recruit "his" type players. Then that turned to 3 years after yr 1 and 2 failed, because "he really inherited a bare cupboard." After 3 years we were all starting to see the handwriting on the wall and felt the time had come, some sooner than that for sure, but I don't think anyone was still on board with keeping Dodge thru the end of this year at the very least, let alone him finishing out his contract.

So does Coach Dan get the same leniency or is he under the cross hairs form Day 1?

I think next year, even with all Coach Dan brings to the table, will be a trial of our patience and determination. Obvious holes to fill, increased expectations, it would take a herculean effort to get us to winning football and a bowl game.

While the development over the past 3 years has been noticable, went from hoping we're just competitive to actually expecting to win a few ball games, we seem to have still had a problem with closing out games and figuring out how to turn effort in to wins.

I'm as excited and optimistic for next year as I've ever been, but have also been tempered by the reality of the past 5 yrs or so.

So all that being said, what are your expectations for next year? What constitutes a positive season, what pacifies the masses, what is absolutely unacceptable.

Personally, imho, 6-6 is a hugely successful season. Anything less than 4 wins is unacceptable, and anything more than 6 is cause for delirium.

I open the floor for debate.

[Mean Green Matt]

With a coach of his skill, a team that is not completely lacking talent, and the fact that we play in the Sun Belt, I am hoping for a 6-6 season. I would not be upset at all with 5-7 though, considering we have not won more than 3 games in a season since 2004.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Mean Green Matt

[MeanGreenTexan]

...

Personally, imho, 6-6 is a hugely successful season. Anything less than 4 wins is unacceptable, and anything more than 6 is cause for delirium.

...

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm setting the bar at 4 wins next year. That will be 1 more win than what we got this year.

[FloMoGrad]

With a coach of his skill, a team that is not completely lacking talent, and the fact that we play in the Sun Belt, I am hoping for a 6-6 season. I would not be upset at all with 5-7 though, considering we have not won more than 3 games in a season since 2004.

Thanks Matt, your response gets to the heart of the matter. Expectations are raised due to improvements being made, both real and perceived. 6-6 is a huge turnaround and would have to be considered a real positive step, and again, anything 4 wins and above represents our best record in the past 5 years at least. But where's the bottom line drawn? Are we happy with 4 wins? Do the glasses of green kool-aid flow at 6 wins and a non-losing season.

With the kick to the pants we've taken over the past 5 years, it makes it very difficult to raise expectations too high, but with the improvements made, both real and perceived, I think we can all agree, expectations will be and should be higher.

Therein lies the crux of the issue: What are reasonable expectations for next year, what would you feel confident signing for if your rear was on the line. How high do we set the bar when we haven't even seen the bar for the past 5 years?

And I know, past performance is not always an indicator of future success, but nonetheless, how high do we set the bar, knowing that if we fail, then for the first time potentially ever, it won't be because the University didn't do all it could.

Coach Dan, welcome to your new position, firmly entrenched between this large geologic specimen and a place of unusually high hardness.

[shaft]

1. The cupboards aren't bare, their injured.

2. There is no culture of losing. The school just invested in new facilities and a new coach. A culture of losing implies its what people expect and are fine with. UNT has hiring expectations, that's why the last two coaches were fired mid-season.

Our expectation is to wining seasons, bowl berths, and conference championships.

[SilverEagle]

Coach Canales already said (when he was auditioning for the job) that he shows up to every game expecting to win. That, and the way his "interum" team played, sold me on the guy. Since the "all-knowing-powers-that-be" thought that Coach McCarney was a better choice, my expectation is that he have no less of an attitude regarding his approach to every game next year.

I don't know how loaded Alabama is, but if Coach McCarney totally leaves Coach Canales alone and concentrates on making the defense better, we could/should be 10-1 next year.

How's that for expectations.

Edited December 15, 2010 by SilverEagle

[Cowtown]

Right on Shaft

[FloMoGrad]

1. The cupboards aren't bare, their injured.

2. There is no culture of losing. The school just invested in new facilities and a new coach. A culture of losing implies its what people expect and are fine with. UNT has hiring expectations, that's why the last two coaches were fired mid-season.

Our expectation is to wining seasons, bowl berths, and conference championships.

Losing as much as we have in the past 5 years, that's a culture of losing, despite what expectations are and where we as fans want to see us go.

Dude, we lose, and lose with great regularity, and despite the recent commitments, there is a culture of losing. This can change and I hope it does. But regardless of what anyone says or does, if you lose, you create a culture of losing. Regardless of what changes are made, until we win more than we lose, we have a culture of losing.

I agree we've never had the commitment from the University on so many fronts, but until that translates to wins, which I fully expect to happen this year, we will still have a culture of losing.

The last 2 coaches were fired mid-season to give us a better chance to find the right guy, when it could have been a year, maybe two years too late in Dodge's case.

I never said efforts weren't made to change the results, but until they do, as Parcells would say, "You are what you are"

We're a 13-58 team in the past 6 years, that by any and all accounts, would qualify as a culture of losing. Doesn't mean I said we're not trying to change it, but that it does exist cannot be argued with.

I said the cupboard is bare at some spots, check our D-Line situation. All I hear on this board is how much trouble we're in at O-Line, D-Line, LB and even secondary. No one feels confident we have a #1 QB, so yes, I think the cupboard has some holes to fill. Are we better off than when DD left, I'll grant you that. But the reliance upon JuCo's and recruiting classes that haven't panned out, have left us thin, I think there's some issues to address.

Expectations and reality are often widely dispersed, do not let expectations and perceptions cloud the judgment of reality.

2-9

3-9

2-10

1-11

2-10

3-9

How is that not a culture of losing?

And I think you're missing the point, what are your expectations for next year, have they been raised, what constitutes a positive season, what is unacceptable, at what point do we become delirious and ask for a Coach Dan statue outside the stadium.

Edited December 15, 2010 by FloMoGrad

[FloMoGrad]

Coach Canales already said (when he was auditioning for the job) that he shows up to every game expecting to win. That, and the way his "interum" team played, sold me on the guy. Since the "all-knowing-powers-that-be" thought that Coach McCarney was a better choice, my expectation is that he have no less of an attitude regarding his approach to every game next year.

I don't know how loaded Alabama is, but if Coach McCarney totally leaves Coach Canales alone and concentrates on making the defense better, we could/should be 10-1 next year.

How's that for expectations.

Unrealistic.

If a coach shows up to a game with expecting anything less than a successful outcome, they're not much of a coach, agreed?

I see some could/should, if this then that.

Do you honestly expect to go 10-1 next year?

And if so, is it all based on the McCarney hire?

And Alabama is always loaded, btw.

Edited December 15, 2010 by FloMoGrad

[UNT90]

_{I expect to win against Houston. I expect to win against Indiana. And I expect to win 5 conference games.}

_{That's 7 wins.}

_{Expectations are a bi$%&, and something that have been missing around here for a very, very long time.}

[greenminer]

Coach Canales already said (when he was auditioning for the job) that he shows up to every game expecting to win. That, and the way his "interum" team played, sold me on the guy. Since the "all-knowing-powers-that-be" thought that Coach McCarney was a better choice, my expectation is that he have no less of an attitude regarding his approach to every game next year.

I don't know how loaded Alabama is, but if Coach McCarney totally leaves Coach Canales alone and concentrates on making the defense better, we could/should be 10-1 next year.

How's that for expectations.

I like this guy.

Put me down for 8 wins.

[greenjoe]

I would love to go 6-6 next year. That's quite a step, but I don't think it's unreasonable.

Now, assuming we go 6-6, but don't win the Sun Belt, do we get a bowl invite ? Our attendance numbers should be up with the new stadium, our new Coach, and a team that outperformed it's self late in the season. We maight look good to a lower tier bowl. At least on paper.

[FloMoGrad]

_{I expect to win against Houston. I expect to win against Indiana. And I expect to win 5 conference games.}

_{That's 7 wins.}

_{Expectations are a bi$%&, and something that have been missing around here for a very, very long time.}

That would be huge, and agreed, expectations of winning have been far too long removed, kind of the reason I started this post.

That would also be enough to be bowl eligible, even with 3 conference losses making it difficult to win the conference.

[FloMoGrad]

I would love to go 6-6 next year. That's quite a step, but I don't think it's unreasonable.

Now, assuming we go 6-6, but don't win the Sun Belt, do we get a bowl invite ? Our attendance numbers should be up with the new stadium, our new Coach, and a team that outperformed it's self late in the season. We maight look good to a lower tier bowl. At least on paper.

If there's 35 bowls next year, then our chances of making a bowl are pretty high at 6-6.

[GrandGreen]

Jeez guys, the team showed last year with Canales at the helm that they could play with anyone in the Belt. Yes we lose some good players particularly on defense with Robertson, Jackson and Atkinson gone, but the cupboard is not bare and knock on wood, I can't imagine another injury year like the last one. I will be disappointed if the team does not fight for a conference championship. That is difference than how long is McCarney leash, he will get at least four years and probably five to build his team. I don't expect miracles but this team played everyone close in the Belt except FIU who NT faced with a walk on fourth string QB and a HC about to go out the door. Non conference will be tough against Houston, Tulsa and Indiana but I expect NT to compete with those schools, Alabama is another story.

[UNTDude]

I'd really like to see a winning record next year, but won't judge the program until his recruits start cycling through. My leash is 5 years for coach MAC to turn around the program into a perennial winner.

[UNT90]

I'd really like to see a winning record next year, but won't judge the program until his recruits start cycling through. My leash is 5 years for coach MAC to turn around the program into a perennial winner.

Really high expectations you have.

So, you are OK with 11 straight losing seasons? I'm not. This isn't the freaking SEC. Win, and win now.

[FloMoGrad]

Jeez guys, the team showed last year with Canales at the helm that they could play with anyone in the Belt. Yes we lose some good players particularly on defense with Robertson, Jackson and Atkinson gone, but the cupboard is not bare and knock on wood, I can't imagine another injury year like the last one. I will be disappointed if the team does not fight for a conference championship. That is difference than how long is McCarney leash, he will get at least four years and probably five to build his team. I don't expect miracles but this team played everyone close in the Belt except FIU who NT faced with a walk on fourth string QB and a HC about to go out the door. Non conference will be tough against Houston, Tulsa and Indiana but I expect NT to compete with those schools, Alabama is another story.

But how can you say you will be disappointed if this team doesn't fight for a conference championship and then back it up with he will at least get 4-5 yrs?

My argument is that the leash might be even shorter, because commitment levels have risen so much in the past 5 yrs. More investment, means higher expectations for returns on those investments.

I never said the cupboard was bare, just in some spots. You telling me DT looks strong for next year? QB? LB? Secondary? O-Line?

Never said we didn't have talent, but there are obvious holes the previous staff chose not to address. Again, not as bad as when TD took over, but not leaps and bounds better?

But then again, if memory serves me correct, TD did inherit a national rushing champ?

Edited December 15, 2010 by FloMoGrad

[greenjoe]

I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but I expect miracles.

We've got the remains of a team that nearly beat Kansas State, an OC in Coach Canales that is about to explode, a veteran head coach that I am told is the highest paid in the Sun Belt with skins on the wll to prove he deserves all that he's been given. To say nothing of a brand new stadium.

I expect to win. Soon.

[UNT90]

I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but I expect miracles.

We've got the remains of a team that nearly beat Kansas State, an OC in Coach Canales that is about to explode, a veteran head coach that I am told is the highest paid in the Sun Belt with skins on the wll to prove he deserves all that he's been given. To say nothing of a brand new stadium.

I expect to win. Soon.

No, we didn't.

We were competetive, but in no way, shape or form did we almost beat Kansas St.

[FloMoGrad]

I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but I expect miracles.

We've got the remains of a team that nearly beat Kansas State, an OC in Coach Canales that is about to explode, a veteran head coach that I am told is the highest paid in the Sun Belt with skins on the wll to prove he deserves all that he's been given. To say nothing of a brand new stadium.

I expect to win. Soon.

You won't hate yourself if your hope turns into prognostication, which we have every reason to believe it could.

We're really starting to get at the heart of this, does increased commitment levels from every level of the AD and university require us to raise our expectations. Miracle is winning out, even 11-1 or 10-2. 6-6 is a realistic expectation, leaves us room for improvement over previous years, 4 or 5 wins, which would still leave us feeling positive about, and 6 wins all but assures us a bowl game out of the Belt, Anything more than 6 wins is time to uncork some bubbly and let the good times roll.

So again, have your expectation levels risen due to the changes we've all witnessed, and if so, what are they now.

And it's a fact, Coach Dan is the highest paid coach in the Belt's and UNT's history.

And if we do go 4-8 next year, is that enough, for the amount of money we've forked over? Yes, it's our best season in nearly 7 yrs, but shouldn't we expect more since we're paying for more?

[SilverEagle]

Unrealistic.

If a coach shows up to a game with expecting anything less than a successful outcome, they're not much of a coach, agreed?

I see some could/should, if this then that.

Do you honestly expect to go 10-1 next year?

And if so, is it all based on the McCarney hire?

And Alabama is always loaded, btw.

Agreed, but it's been a long time since we had a coach with that attitude. The best example of a losing attitude in a coach was what Coach Dickey said before our last game with Texas, "I hope that when Dr. Bataille looks up at the scoreboard at the end of the game, she remembers how much we are making off the game".

[FloMoGrad]

Agreed, but it's been a long time since we had a coach with that attitude. The best example of a losing attitude in a coach was what Coach Dickey said before our last game with Texas, "I hope that when Dr. Bataille looks up at the scoreboard at the end of the game, she remembers how much we are making off the game".

One of the many reasons why DD was shown the door.

[SilverEagle]

One of the many reasons why DD was shown the door.

Had it been up to me, I would have shown him the door about 5mins after those words left his mouth.

[FloMoGrad]

Really high expectations you have.

So, you are OK with 11 straight losing seasons? I'm not. This isn't the freaking SEC. Win, and win now.

I'm not OK with 11 straight losing seasons. I'm not ok with the 6 straight losing seasons we've had. There is no way Dan's still here in 5 years if we've posted 4 more straight losing seasons. Not for $545,000 a year.

And there in lies the point of this post. How long is the leash, when you're the highest paid coach in the conference and university history?

I'm sticking with pretty dang short.

Edited December 15, 2010 by FloMoGrad