Mwc Expanding To 12

VideoEagle · December 10, 2010

IF Ut St does leave the WAC, what is left?
La Tech, Idaho, San Jose, NMSt, TSSM & UTSA
Does that even qualify as a D-1 Football conf?

It won't qualify as a 1A conference even WITH USU. The NCAA will no longer recognize it, it won't have a seat on the NCAA football council and the schools will be treated as non-Notre Dame independents by the BCS. In effect, in 2012 the WAC will be a scheduling alliance of independent schools as for as football is concerned.

Side Show Joe · December 10, 2010

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/50808891-77/conference-hawaii-football-west.html.csp

The same guy who had the scoop on BYU going independent says the MWC is looking at Utah State and UTEP to get to 12.

So if that that happens what does UNT need to do to beat out LA Tech for the 12th spot in CUSA.

This guy doesn't claim he has information regarding Utah State or UTEP being targeted by the MWC. The way I read it, I think it is his opinion that they will look at those teams first. I just can't see UTEP leaving C-USA, and I can't see the MWC giving up the DFW market. I have Directv, and the Mountain is one of the channels. The MWC needs DFW for the Mountain. With TCU gone, I can't see Directv keeping the Mountain in Dallas unless the MWC adds another local team. Let them take some time and evaluate their situation. In that time we will continue to improve our programs and create some distance from other possible candidates.

Side Show Joe · December 10, 2010

It won't qualify as a 1A conference even WITH USU. The NCAA will no longer recognize it, it won't have a seat on the NCAA football council and the schools will be treated as non-Notre Dame independents by the BCS. In effect, in 2012 the WAC will be a scheduling alliance of independent schools as for as football is concerned.

If true, how then can Texas State and UTSA move up, if the WAC will no longer be a recognized conference?

forevereagle · December 10, 2010

If true, how then can Texas State and UTSA move up, if the WAC will no longer be a recognized conference?

I think that remains to be seen. Because they were a conference when the invite was extended, it may work out.

shaft · December 11, 2010

The MWC doesn't have presence in DFW, TCU does. I think the MWC knows that ship has sailed.

Let's be honest UNT doesn't bring the DFW market with them if they go to the MWC. Also why are we talking about going to the MWC, they haven't shown any interest in us. The MWC is looking at Plan A: Stay at 10, Plan B: Go got 12 with USU and UTEP.

PlummMeanGreen · December 11, 2010

The MWC doesn't have presence in DFW, TCU does. I think the MWC knows that ship has sailed.
Let's be honest UNT doesn't bring the DFW market with them if they go to the MWC. Also why are we talking about going to the MWC, they haven't shown any interest in us. The MWC is looking at Plan A: Stay at 10, Plan B: Go got 12 with USU and UTEP.

Then just what is the critera of any school in any metro area who would bring said metro area with them to any league then?

Yes, winning is at the top of the list and believe it not, North Texas will win again and also believe this or not, TCU will come back down to earth because (after all) didn't private school Notre Dame do so with the Irish being a school that we rarely see in a Top 10 poll any longer--sometimes not even in the Top 25?

Mean Green & DFW TV? We've Already Been There--Done That & Passed The Neilsen TV Ratings Test : North Texas has won Neilsen TV ratings time slots on a DFW major network (ABC TV) in the past, of course, that was before some of you could say Mween Gween, :baby: and our entire UNT constituency has all but quadrupled since that ABC TV Game that even inspired former Dallas Morning News' sportswriter Cathy Harasta to write a blurb on Mean Green football that focussed on UNT being a Neilsen ratings winner. She seemed duly impressed.

Even 1 or 2 years when North Texas football had a local station televise our entire seasons it was said that that TV station was quite surprised with the pull of Mean Green football from their own ratings research and polling so........

......I guess I have to ask it again: What is the criteria for a metropolitan school to bring a metro market to a league such as the Mountain West Conference? Whatever it is I think North Texas with almost 40,000 students and 100,000 Dallas-Fort Worth NT Exes could bring it as much as anyone--including Texas Christian University who is still basically a Fort Worth supported athletic program whose influence doesn't go too far beyond the Cowtown City Limits and even that with their recent great teams.

Our 100,000 North Texas Exes in Dallas-Fort Worth gives us a presence no other school in DFW can duplicate and that also a selling point to those who get paid nicely to do the selling which we should all hope is happening now with all this latest wave of re-alignments.

GMG!

Edited December 11, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

VideoEagle · December 11, 2010

If true, how then can Texas State and UTSA move up, if the WAC will no longer be a recognized conference?

I've asked that question of a number of people and the consensus answer is the WAC currently is a recognized conference and will be through the next year when TXST and UTSA are playing their first probationary year. The rule reads, I'm told, that they have to be invited by a recognized conference but doesn't actually read that it has to still be a recognized conference at the time they complete the two year process.

It doesn't make sense to me, but that's what I've been told by multiple people. It still might not be right and if the NCAA doesn't change the 6 schools for 5 years rule, the WAC is done for all other sports besides football as well.

shaft · December 11, 2010

If Plumm disagrees with me then I know I'm right. Your living in an absolute green blinder fantasy land if you think UNT has any serious pull with the local media.

But this is the year to buy into the team. 2011 is the year to pump as much money and attention into the school as possible, because it looks like there might me a a CUSA spot in 2012. We need to do everything we can to separate ourselves from LA Tech.

VideoEagle · December 11, 2010

Mean Green & DFW TV? We've Already Been There--Done That & Passed The Neilsen TV Ratings Test : North Texas has won Neilsen TV ratings time slots on a DFW major network (ABC TV) in the past, of course, that was before some of you could say Mween Gween, and our entire UNT constituency has all but quadrupled since that ABC TV Game that even inspired former Dallas Morning News' sportswriter Cathy Harasta to write a blurb on Mean Green football that focussed on UNT being a Neilsen ratings winner. She seemed duly impressed.

GMG!

I remember watching the game on TV, but I don't remember when it was - 1982? I don't even remember who we played.

It was before the OU and a couple of other suited to allow schools to control their own media rights or at least before the results of the suit kicked in. I remember ABC HAD to carried us as part of their contract with the NCAA. Back before conferences and schools could make their own TV deals, the NCAA controlled it all. If you wanted to watch ANY college sports, you HAD to watch the only game on at the time. There was just one. This was before FOX network existed. Back then, local channels 21, 27 and 33 were independents during the week days, but at 7pm to they went off the air - TV stations used to do that - and all day on weekends they were pay channels. ESPN did exist. It did not carry much college football and had penetration of less than 15% of total households. Cable came late to the DFW market as a whole so they have half that or less here.

Yes, NT did when a very unpopulated time slot being either the only or one of only two college football games on TV that afternoon.

SilverEagle · December 11, 2010

I remember watching the game on TV, but I don't remember when it was - 1982? I don't even remember who we played.

It was before the OU and a couple of other suited to allow schools to control their own media rights or at least before the results of the suit kicked in. I remember ABC HAD to carried us as part of their contract with the NCAA. Back before conferences and schools could make their own TV deals, the NCAA controlled it all. If you wanted to watch ANY college sports, you HAD to watch the only game on at the time. There was just one. This was before FOX network existed. Back then, local channels 21, 27 and 33 were independents during the week days, but at 7pm to they went off the air - TV stations used to do that - and all day on weekends they were pay channels. ESPN did exist. It did not carry much college football and had penetration of less than 15% of total households. Cable came late to the DFW market as a whole so they have half that or less here.

Yes, NT did when a very unpopulated time slot being either the only or one of only two college football games on TV that afternoon.

The only game during that era that I remember being on ABC was the 1983 NT vs ULM (NE La) Southland Conf. Championship game. It was played in Monroe and was one hell of a game.

PlummMeanGreen · December 11, 2010

If Plumm disagrees with me then I know I'm right. Your living in an absolute green blinder fantasy land if you think UNT has any serious pull with the local media.

But this is the year to buy into the team. 2011 is the year to pump as much money and attention into the school as possible, because it looks like there might me a a CUSA spot in 2012. We need to do everything we can to separate ourselves from LA Tech.

shaft...instead of you getting into a "I know you are but who am I" junior high'ish diatribe here with your attempt to insult, just simply list what you see as media pull because I think others would like to know what you think those would be, too. Is that too simple a request? NOTE: I know you're a big DD supporter and you know I was not his last 2 years and that because of things that none of us would post even on this board that were taking place--and with that in mind I think I can project other future responses from you when we are not on the same page such as this "media pull" business of which you have said with one giant swath of your keyboard that North Texas has none whatsoever.

AND......... you honest to goodness don't accept local TV ratings (no matter what year) as a part of your so-called media pull? Then if not--then what the hell would the barometer be? I'm all ears....

If winning any Neilsen TV ratings in any time slot in the Dallas-Fort Worth market is not so notable, then why would SUMG and I (back in the day) marvel at a Dallas Morning News (blurb) written by sportwriter Cathy Harasta with her all but gloating about the kind of TV ratings pull North Texas did show that particular day?

TV ratings is all about media pull and North Texas merely showed a sample of what we were capable of doing that day in 1982 with a much, much smaller UNT constituency. shaft, would your own math suggest that we would do much more since there are so many more of us among our Metroplex numbers--hence more TV sets in the homes of North Texas Exes, UNT students and Mean Green fans in general? Have you ever heard "it's a numbers game" and how that might influence a future new conference for UNT because (in deed).........it really is a numbers game?

And as SilverEagle posted, it was a great game. North Texas QB Greg Carter played one of his best career games as I recall and I was just one that the Neilsen ratings folks may have used my own TV set to enable the University of North Texas on a Saturday afternoon in 1982 to win its time slot. Hell, I'd bet SMU and TCU would have taken those same ratings UNT got that day and done a bit of gloating of their own.

GMG!

Edited December 11, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

shaft · December 12, 2010

Fine. What are UNT's ratings from this century? And how do they compare to the other programs in the metroplex?

I'm willing to guess more folks watched the ESPN doc on SMU tonight than any UNT game in the past twenty years.

PlummMeanGreen · December 12, 2010

Fine. What are UNT's ratings from this century? And how do they compare to the other programs in the metroplex?
I'm willing to guess more folks watched the ESPN doc on SMU tonight than any UNT game in the past twenty years.

Case closed mostly due to a one-sided conversation of which the other party seems to not want to post anything such as facts, figures or data related to the subject at hand.

All I know is that a "winning" Mean Green football program today would "blow out" the 1982 ABC-TV North Texas/ULM Nieslen Ratings winner (and its figures) mostly because of this:

UNT Enrollment

1982....Approx. 22,000 +/-

2010....36,000

City of Denton Population

1982 pop.....approx. 50,000

2010....Approx 110,000

Denton County Population

1982 pop.....Approx. 145,000

2010 pop.....Approx. 650,000

It's still a numbers game & ours have grown dramatically since 1982.

UNT Alums in the North Texas Metroplex

1982.......????????????

2010.......Approx. 100,000

_____________________________________________

UNT would bring much to the table as compared to Utah State (who by the way according to their powers back in the day said they owed UNT a big favor from helping them out of a conference back in the day. Seems it had something to do with their membership in the WAC or something related to that.

So..........UNT powers: If Utah State owes us a, uh, big favor? Maybe its time for UNT to collect if they become a new member of the Mountain West Conference?

GMG!

Edited December 13, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

wardly · December 12, 2010

put this under "for what its worth". the wac fan board states from a "wyoming insider" that neither utep nor houston have any interest in leaving cusa for mwc. based upon smu's experience with the wac, i doubt if they have any interest as well. the mwc presidents meet again in january to discuss future expansion. as of now, it looks like usu and a player to be named later should they go to 12 , which is not a given.f.y.i.

NT80 · December 12, 2010

put this under "for what its worth". the wac fan board states from a "wyoming insider" that neither utep nor houston have any interest in leaving cusa for mwc. based upon smu's experience with the wac, i doubt if they have any interest as well. the mwc presidents meet again in january to discuss future expansion. as of now, it looks like usu and a player to be named later should they go to 12 , which is not a given.f.y.i.

The "new" MWC won't have any upgrade/benefit for those currently in CUSA like UTEP, UH, and Smut, maybe less travel for UTEP but if they like playing inside Texas then no. Utah State would kill to have another invite to the MWC after declining the initial offer.

If the initial schools on the list decline (CUSA) it may come down to the second list and which two (2) markets the MWC wants to stay in...USU, Idaho, SJSU, NMSU, UNT, La Tech.

So Yes, I'm saying there's a chance. :rolleyes:

Edited December 12, 2010 by NT80

PlummMeanGreen · December 13, 2010

The "new" MWC won't have any upgrade/benefit for those currently in CUSA like UTEP, UH, and Smut, maybe less travel for UTEP but if they like playing inside Texas then no. Utah State would kill to have another invite to the MWC after declining the initial offer.

If the initial schools on the list decline (CUSA) it may come down to the second list and which two (2) markets the MWC wants to stay in...USU, Idaho, SJSU, NMSU, UNT, La Tech.

So Yes, I'm saying there's a chance.

And if the Big East would take a TCU, why wouldn't the MWC entertain the possibility of a UNT (which we know has not had the same success as TCU football-wise, but Johnny Jones' UNT basketball program would hardly be a deal-killer to the MWC powers that be, either). UNT's being the closest DFW university to a major airport (25 minutes) would not hurt things for our cause, either. Some schools have to parachute their teams out of some these way out there outpost schools or get to a major airport and then bus their teams a few hours away.

GMG!

wardly · December 13, 2010

And if the Big East would take a TCU, why wouldn't the MWC entertain the possibility of a UNT (which we know has not had the same success as TCU football-wise, but Johnny Jones' UNT basketball program would hardly be a deal-killer to the MWC powers that be, either). UNT's being the closest DFW university to a major airport (25 minutes) would not hurt things for our cause, either. Some schools have to parachute their teams out of some these way out there outpost schools or get to a major airport and then bus their teams a few hours away.

GMG!

i am just asking a question, not making a statement. why would we want to be in mwc, wac, or big west? albuquerque is 700+ miles from denton, and would be our cloest rival. when we do play a team at home like baylor or k.state, what increases attendance is that those schools bring fans. nt does not travel well, and i don't see a lot of mcw fans making the trip to denton. i appears from the outside looking in that our travel expenses go thru the roof. we might get some tv exposure, but mwc network is not available to everyone, and we don't have a tv following. just asking.

Cowtown · December 13, 2010

I would say UNM & CSU travel better than anyone in the belt, this is based on the eyeball test from what I have seen at TCU and in Denton.

AirForce fills a stadium.

Boise travels pretty good and I think would be a big draw. Think about it, if Boise were to come to Denton they would be the highest ranked team ever to play us. In fact, have we ever had a top 20 team come to UNT? Not the Cottonbowl or TX Stadium, but to Denton? Maybe back in the 70's?

We would have a road trip to either Vegas or Reno every year.

We would have skiing opportunities to either UNM, CSU, Nevada, Boise

We would get to go to AFA every other year, which is an awesome place to see a game.

i am just asking a question, not making a statement. why would we want to be in mwc, wac, or big west? albuquerque is 700+ miles from denton, and would be our cloest rival. when we do play a team at home like baylor or k.state, what increases attendance is that those schools bring fans. nt does not travel well, and i don't see a lot of mcw fans making the trip to denton. i appears from the outside looking in that our travel expenses go thru the roof. we might get some tv exposure, but mwc network is not available to everyone, and we don't have a tv following. just asking.

VideoEagle · December 13, 2010

Without TCU, in 2012 I'd rather be in the CUSA than the MWC. It's the TEAMS you are playing, not the uniform patches, that count for me.

KoldBeer · December 13, 2010

Without TCU, in 2012 I'd rather be in the CUSA than the MWC. It's the TEAMS you are playing, not the uniform patches, that count for me.

I think the question might be, would you rather be in MWC or Sun Belt. I don't see any scenario where UNT gets to pick between CUSA and MWC. Best case, we'll get an invite from one of the conferences. CUSA has better regional match-ups but the MWC is more stable and still a better conference (but probably not best fit for UNT).

If you are talking MWC vs. Sun Belt, I'd take MWC. Even without BYU, Utah and TCU it is the best non-AQ conference. I know the MWC has a crappy TV deal but it's better than the non-existent Sun Belt deal. For basketball, you get into a multi-bid league. The Sun Belt has received an at-large once in the past 10 years. The MWC isn't the best in basketball but they do receive multiple bids on occasion. Those extra teams equal more $$$$. Plus, I think North Texas would be seen in a more positive light in we were in the MWC. You'd go from the worst D-1 conference (although WAC will take over that title) to the best non-AQ. Instead of playing Monroe and La-La, you'd get to play Air Force and New Mexico. That has a chance to grab the casual sports fans attention (which hopefully increases attendance and donations).

As long as you don't lose a bunch of money, I think you'd be crazy not to jump to the MWC.

cdizzle86 · December 13, 2010

The main problem when debating which conference is better is the fact that we could join one conference today and it completely change tomorrow. Conferences are too volatile right now to have a legit opinion of which is better. It may be jumping the gun, but I look at the bigger picture, which I believe is getting into a BCS conference. We have a lot of potential, but until we start winning games against the big boys we won't get much attention. I say we start with wins over Houston & Indiana and see what those do for us.

GrayEagle · December 13, 2010

i am just asking a question, not making a statement. why would we want to be in mwc, wac, or big west? albuquerque is 700+ miles from denton, and would be our cloest rival. when we do play a team at home like baylor or k.state, what increases attendance is that those schools bring fans. nt does not travel well, and i don't see a lot of mcw fans making the trip to denton. i appears from the outside looking in that our travel expenses go thru the roof. we might get some tv exposure, but mwc network is not available to everyone, and we don't have a tv following. just asking.

Since the Big West no longer plays football and the WAC is in danger of the same I assume that you mean the Mountain West Conference.

The quick answer is that it is a better conference; maybe even better than CUSA. Two of its future teams have played in a BCS bowl compared to zero for CUSA.

If either Houston or UTEP also joined our farthest division game would be 726 miles (as a crow flies) to Laramie WY. Only once every four years would you have to go to Fresno, Boise, etc. so travel costs would not be that bad. All of the eastern division would be mountain or central time zone.

We could still play the Baylors, K-States, etc. in non-conference games.

P.S. Cowtown posed a question about ever playing a Top 20 team in Denton. In 1972 we hosted San Diego State who ended the season at #20 (AP) and I believe was #16 when we played. They were the only Top 20 team to visit Denton that I can recall. Florida State was the most prestigious but they were not a Top 20 team at the Snow Bowl.

Edited December 13, 2010 by GrayEagle

VideoEagle · December 13, 2010

The main problem when debating which conference is better is the fact that we could join one conference today and it completely change tomorrow. Conferences are too volatile right now to have a legit opinion of which is better. It may be jumping the gun, but I look at the bigger picture, which I believe is getting into a BCS conference. We have a lot of potential, but until we start winning games against the big boys we won't get much attention. I say we start with wins over Houston & Indiana and see what those do for us.

I think you nailed it - things are changing so fast you might jump into what looks good only to find it (in the case of Boise) no better than where you were or even worse (UTSA and Texas State).

I believe the BCS contract is up after the 2014 season. I suspect the new deal will be very, very different than the present one.

NCMeanGreen · December 13, 2010

IF C-USA is not at all a possibility, then...

Give me the MWC over the SB any day of the week (especially on Saturday!!! )

Especially with the addition of Boise State, Fresno, and Hawaii? That may not make up for the loss of TCU for some, but still MUCH better than the SB...

Frankly, I cannot understand how we could even compare the SB to the MWC...not even close I am afraid (as we will most likely be stuck in the SB conference). A simple comparison shows that while there are some similarities to the member schools (type of institution, enrollment numbers, etc.), there are vast differences as well, such as rankings and name recognition.

Here is a comparison chart:

Institution Nickname Location Enrollment

Ranking

Arkansas State Red Wolves Jonesboro, Arkansas 16,494

102

FAU Owls Boca Raton, Florida 26,000

101

FIU Golden Panthers Miami, Florida 40,455

81

MTSU Blue Raiders Murfreesboro, Tennessee 25,188

80

Troy Trojans Troy, Alabama 6,671

75

ULL Ragin' Cajuns Lafayette, Louisiana 18,079

112

ULM Warhawks Monroe, Louisiana 8,140

99

North Texas Mean Green Denton, Texas 36,206

109

South Alabama Jaguars Mobile, Alabama 15,007

Western Kentucky Hilltoppers Bowling Green, Kentucky 18,391

114

210,631

873

21063.1 Average Enrollment - 10 Members 97 Average Ranking - CBSSports.com 120

Institution Nickname Location Enrollment

Ranking

Air Force Academy Falcons Colorado Springs, Colorado 4417

30

Boise State Broncos Boise, Idaho 19993

10

Colorado State Rams Fort Collins, Colorado 24875

107

Fresno State Bulldogs Fresno, California 22613

38

Hawaii Warriors Honolulu, Hawaii 20135

25

Nevada Wolf Pack Reno, Nevada 17679

15

New Mexico Lobos Albuquerque, New Mexico 34674

119

San Diego State Aztecs San Diego, California 33790

34

UNLV Rebels Paradise, Nevada 29069

113

Wyoming Cowboys Laramie, Wyoming 12496

103

219741

21974.1 Average Enrollment - 10 Members 594

59 Average Ranking - CBSSports.com 120

Edited December 14, 2010 by NCMeanGreen

NT80 · December 13, 2010

P.S. Cowtown posed a question about ever playing a Top 20 team in Denton. In 1972 we hosted San Diego State who ended the season at #20 (AP) and I believe was #16 when we played. They were the only Top 20 team to visit Denton that I can recall. Florida State was the most prestigious but they were not a Top 20 team at the Snow Bowl.

I believe it was the 1970 SDSU team that was ranked in the Top20 that we hosted at Fouts. The 1972 game was played at Texas Stadium.