Mwc Expanding To 12

[untjim1995]

[uFrankly, I cannot understand how we could even compare the SB to the MWC...not even close I am afraid (as we will most likely be stuck in the SB conference). A simple comparison shows that while there are some similarities to the member schools (type of institution, enrollment numbers, etc.), there are vast differences as well, such as rankings and name recognition.] quote

I don't understand how anyone can claim that CUSA could even compare to the new MWC in football. I think CUSA is only a few steps higher on the ladder than the SBC. This year, the SBC is terrible, but the previous years have seen the gap between CUSA and the SBC to be very slim. No matter what, both the SBC and CUSA are behind the MWC. I will take being the only Texas school in a conference that includes Boise State, Fresno State, AFA, Nevada, Hawaii, Colorado State, and New Mexico to recruit kids to come to UNT versus a conference with UCF, UH, SMU, East Carolina, Southern Miss, and Memphis. I could only imagine the excitement of watching Boise come to Denton in our new stadium with a legitimate, well-funded coaching staff. A MWC invite has a chance of occurring, even it is not a great chacne. In my opinion, the chances of joining a conference that has SMU in it are near zero.

[shaft]

The problem is MWC isn't looking at UNT. I'm sorry, I wish they were. But no credible media source is reporting otherwise. The guy that broke the BYU story says the MWC is going to look at UTEP and Utah State in a season.

@Wardly I wouldn't put too much stock in rumors from other message boards. Even if it is a national message board that I'm a moderator for.

@Jim It's not about CUSA being better than MWC, its about CUSA being a better fit for UNT.

@Plumm still waiting for those ratings.

Edited December 14, 2010 by shaft

[ColoradoEagle]

The problem is MWC isn't looking at UNT. I'm sorry, I wish they were. But no credible media source is reporting otherwise. The guy that broke the BYU story says the MWC is going to look at UTEP and Utah State in a season.

That doesn't mean that those two schools are going to the MWC. These conference realignment rumors change by the day, and there's no way to definitively say who has or hasn't been looked at until the invites are already extended. No one knew about Utah State being courted until they tried to burn the MWC and then got burned right back.

[Got5onIt]

I wonder how high travel costs just went up for all sports in the MWC now that Hawaii is in?

[UNTFan23]

I wonder how high travel costs just went up for all sports in the MWC now that Hawaii is in?

Hawaii is football only for the MWC.

[untjim1995]

@Jim It's not about CUSA being better than MWC, its about CUSA being a better fit for UNT.

I don't believe that CUSA will ever take us unless SMU leaves. The private schools don't want us, the other Texas public schools don't seem to want us, and the Eastern CUSA schools don't want another Texas school.

[GrayEagle]

I don't believe that CUSA will ever take us unless SMU leaves. The private schools don't want us, the other Texas public schools don't seem to want us, and the Eastern CUSA schools don't want another Texas school.

Maybe....maybe not.

I have no idea what the SMU administration would do if we were proposed for membership in CUSA. But first, there has to be an opening. At that point SMU might do the math and figure that there is more to gain with increased attendance and less travel cost, especially if the majority seems to be in our favor.

Even if it's true that SMU doesn't want us that's not necessarily a death knell. They were supposedly for La Tech at the last admission but that didn't work out. There are four private universities in the conference and if they had voted as a bloc that should have kept UTEP out. So maybe one or more of the privates don't necessarily side with them.

I haven't heard anything pro or con about Houston and UTEP being either for or against us. I'm speaking of the administration; never mind what some fans might think.

From what I hear the next CUSA expansion will be westward. The next loss will likely be UCF, leaving only two in or east of the Appalachians. East Carolina has good teams and strong attendance so they are a likely candidate for future expansion of the Big East or a tradeoff with the ACC. Why jack up the costs for nine members to satisfy one, two or three members?

Lastly, aren't the conference headquarters less than thirty miles from Denton? Wouldn't the largest presence in the #5 media market also help?

Edited December 14, 2010 by GrayEagle

[Got5onIt]

Maybe....maybe not.

I have no idea what the SMU administration would do if we were proposed for membership in CUSA. But first, there has to be an opening. At that point SMU might do the math and figure that there is more to gain with increased attendance and less travel cost, especially if the majority seems to be in our favor.

Even if it's true that SMU doesn't want us that's not necessarily a death knell. They were supposedly for La Tech at the last admission but that didn't work out. There are four private universities in the conference and if they had voted as a bloc that should have kept UTEP out. So maybe one or more of the privates don't necessarily side with them.

I haven't heard anything pro or con about Houston and UTEP being either for or against us. I'm speaking of the administration; never mind what some fans might think.

From what I hear the next CUSA expansion will be westward. The next loss will likely be UCF, leaving only two in or east of the Appalachians. East Carolina has good teams and strong attendance so they are a likely candidate for future expansion of the Big East or a tradeoff with the ACC. Why jack up the costs for nine members to satisfy one, two or three members?

Lastly, aren't the conference headquarters less than thirty miles from Denton? Wouldn't the largest presence in the #5 media market also help?

So the question is, do we like privates?

[VideoEagle]

So the question is, do we like privates?

When talking of SMU, Tulsa, Rice and Tulane, it's more accurate to refer to them as "small privates."

[PlummMeanGreen]

The problem is MWC isn't looking at UNT. I'm sorry, I wish they were. But no credible media source is reporting otherwise. The guy that broke the BYU story says the MWC is going to look at UTEP and Utah State in a season.

@Wardly I wouldn't put too much stock in rumors from other message boards. Even if it is a national message board that I'm a moderator for.

@Jim It's not about CUSA being better than MWC, its about CUSA being a better fit for UNT.

@Plumm still waiting for those ratings.

First of all, I merely gave you a Nielsen ratings report of UNT football game in 1982 versus ULM when we were a much smaller operation with a much, much smaller constituency. The ratings were from a newspaper blurb SUMG sent me via mail (long before the internet) that impressed him enough as to send me that Cathy Harasta article on UNT's Nielsen ratings coup for "one game" in 1982. I have moved a few times since and have lost that small article from Harasta, but surely it would still be in the DMN's archives or something.

In about 40 years as an alum I've never posted that "any" conference was interested in adding North Texas, but have only tried to point out a few things that many on this board have agreed with me (and I agreeing with them) would be UNT's strong points for any league to consider as far as North Texas is concerned.

I have merely posted numbers (enrollment, population growth, DFW area alumnus numbers, etc) that I think is what can command better ratings and thus deliver said market and if it isnt' such things as that that delivers a market, then just what is it that does? If one were the new owner of a radio station, where would you want to locate that radio station as to get the most listening audience--Longview or Dallas-Fort Worth-Denton? And to quote GrayEagle in his above post on a CUSA possibility: Lastly, aren't the conference headquarters less than thirty miles from Denton? Wouldn't the largest presence in the #5 media market also help?

Lets say the MWC were interested in a school like Rice. Rice is a great school, but there are many 5A Texas high schools with larger enrollments. Can Rice U deliver the Houston market? I think I know how most media types would answer that question. They have the name for sure--but they just don't have the numbers to deliver anything market-wise too far past their location near South Main Street, Houston, Texas

UNT and the MWC? Yes, it would be nice but that is still their call. Sometimes certain conferences still use what happened 75 years ago at a "used to be" name school as their criteria to add said school but that is old school NCAA style thinking IMHO. And is that how such additions to a new league occur now, circa 2010? Probably not, but few from a message board are going to change the mindsets of those who are re-aligning these non AQ conferences.

It will be a tall order for UNT since we have been at the bottom for so long athletically (nationally speaking & beyond the 'Belt), but stranger things have happened. (TCU in the Big East for starters)?

This I do know...any league who might sends their commish' or conference reps to visit the olympic village'esque style Mean Green Village in west Denton with that sparkling new stadium being built will have to move North Texas up the ladder a few rungs than where we have been in the past and.........with Chuck Neinas (a non UNT'er) pleading our case if we commission him again, I sure like our odds now than I did last time CUSA expanded.

That's about it....

GMG!

Edited December 15, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[letsgiveacheer]

I believe it was the 1970 SDSU team that was ranked in the Top20 that we hosted at Fouts. The 1972 game was played at Texas Stadium.

I recall the ranked SDSU game was at Fouts. I remember this because there were only 300 fans at the game. Reported attendance was 1000! It was as empty as I had seen Fouts including the dismal Rust 1-10 season.

While this has nothing to do with the MWC, the cagey Fry reportedly voted SDSU as high as he could the week before we played them, bumping them even higher in the rankings.

[Coffee and TV]

When talking of SMU, Tulsa, Rice and Tulane, it's more accurate to refer to them as "small privates."

Best unintentional humor of the day.

[shaft]

So Plumm, the answer is No. You don't have any ratings to back up claim.

UNT brings access to the DFW marketing, but its doen't bring the market.

RV is doing good things to upgrade the program, but you don't have to over-sell those accomplishments and then back peddle with some bit of triva from decades ago.

[PlummMeanGreen]

So Plumm, the answer is No. You don't have any ratings to back up claim.

UNT brings access to the DFW marketing, but its doen't bring the market.

RV is doing good things to upgrade the program, but you don't have to over-sell those accomplishments and then back peddle with some bit of triva from decades ago.

Look up the article in the Dallas Morning News archives yourself--2 of us on this board saw the article if your questioning that it was ever written.

And then you say: UNT brings access to the DFW marketing, but its doesn't bring the market. You care to explain what the hell you mean with that?

UNT brings far more to the table than you seem capable of mentally absorbing. Go back to your DD worship.

[wardly]

When talking of SMU, Tulsa, Rice and Tulane, it's more accurate to refer to them as "small privates."

the last time i made a simular comment,[little d---s], harry put me on "warn status", where i still languish.

[shaft]

Look up the article in the Dallas Morning News archives yourself--2 of us on this board saw the article if your questioning that it was ever written.

So your sticking with the ratings from 3 decades ago. I'm sure the MWC will jump right on that.

I stick with the actual sources I used, when I started this thread.

[meangreen]

shaft: you can't possibly believe that if UNT moved up to the MWC, then the DFW Media Market would have no impact in the decision. Look at TCU, they played at Cowboys Stadium in front of a national audience! If UNT gets into the MWC, if they string together some good seasons, then OF COURSE the TV ratings will matter. Imagine playing Boise St. each year! Believe me when I say, the MWC would love to tap into the DFW TV market, especially since they are losing TCU.

[wardly]

shaft: you can't possibly believe that if UNT moved up to the MWC, then the DFW Media Market would have no impact in the decision. Look at TCU, they played at Cowboys Stadium in front of a national audience! If UNT gets into the MWC, if they string together some good seasons, then OF COURSE the TV ratings will matter. Imagine playing Boise St. each year! Believe me when I say, the MWC would love to tap into the DFW TV market, especially since they are losing TCU.

brousing the mcw fan forums, the presidents seem to have a difference of opinion. wyoming,afa,colorado st., and new mexico appear to want to expand in existing footprint, which does not include dfw or houston. they meet again in january to discuss.

[PlummMeanGreen]

So your sticking with the ratings from 3 decades ago. I'm sure the MWC will jump right on that.

I stick with the actual sources I used, when I started this thread.

And to remind us all, just what sources were those? Since you don't seem to believe a source from the Dallas Morning News that 2 of us on this board have seen; a blurb that showed what UNT could do with all its alums in this market when UNT had a much, much smaller constituency and you can't seem to fathom or understand how much larger our numbers are today compared to 1982; but since you don't believe a blurb from the Dallas Morning News, you are actually going to believe an article from a Salt Lake City newspaper? Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways, but we all know by your responses to many posts that you will still try.

And your judgement call on one coach's careers at UNT? You are the one who still thinks a particular coach at UNT who had 3 winning seasons out of 9 should have received yet another extension to his contract--and by suggesting that on this board recently you lost much credibility with most on this board with most anything else you will post or respond to from others posters. Can you fathom what I just posted on that subject or is that something you will try to respond to with something from way out there and from........the far side?

And you say you are actually an administrator of a message board? Tell me if the rest of the administrators on that board actually visit this one to see one of their fellow administrators in action? Sometimes reading posts from some on this board, its so very easy to understand why we've been in the NCAA wildnerness most my adult life, specifically the last 15-20 years.

GMG!

Edited December 15, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen

[shaft]

Of course access to the DFW media is a strength of UNT's. I was refuting the ridiculous claim that UNT brings a huge media market with us citing an 1982 article. Ratings were a little different when there were only 3 tv stations. In the 80's it was common for the last place show to be pulling 20% of the viewing audience.

@Plumm You're mocked enough on this board with your negative 400 ratings. Please bring your nonsense over to the national board I'm a mod for and see how well that works for you.

And yes I think the SMU win should have warranted DD getting to keep his job for the remainder of the season. And yes I thought TD was a horrible hire. And yes, I think coach Mac is great hire and making really good assistant hires.

[FloMoGrad]

Of course access to the DFW media is a strength of UNT's. I was refuting the ridiculous claim that UNT brings a huge media market with us citing an 1982 article. Ratings were a little different when there were only 3 tv stations. In the 80's it was common for the last place show to be pulling 20% of the viewing audience.

@Plumm You're mocked enough on this board with your negative 400 ratings. Please bring your nonsense over to the national board I'm a mod for and see how well that works for you.

And yes I think the SMU win should have warranted DD getting to keep his job for the remainder of the season. And yes I thought TD was a horrible hire. And yes, I think coach Mac is great hire and making really good assistant hires.

Does anyone at this point have the stones to stand up and say they thought the TD hiring was great, and still do.

I really thought TD was the answer, I now know different. Anyone feel that TD was still a good hire for the program?

[foutsrouts]

Does anyone at this point have the stones to stand up and say they thought the TD hiring was great, and still do.

I really thought TD was the answer, I now know different. Anyone feel that TD was still a good hire for the program?

The TD hire initially generated increased interest in the program that may have helped us in the stadium campaign as well as in attendance in relation to our record, it brought us his son who will hopefully be with us for two more years, and it eventually brought us Chico. Other than that, no I don't have the stones to say that the TD hire was great.

[PlummMeanGreen]

Of course access to the DFW media is a strength of UNT's. I was refuting the ridiculous claim that UNT brings a huge media market with us citing an 1982 article. Ratings were a little different when there were only 3 tv stations. In the 80's it was common for the last place show to be pulling 20% of the viewing audience.

@Plumm You're mocked enough on this board with your negative 400 ratings. Please bring your nonsense over to the national board I'm a mod for and see how well that works for you.

And yes I think the SMU win should have warranted DD getting to keep his job for the remainder of the season. And yes I thought TD was a horrible hire. And yes, I think coach Mac is great hire and making really good assistant hires.

You say, uh, nonsense? Do you project everything about yourself onto others all the time? Look in the damn mirror.

The important ones on this board who I've known for decades and who I respect know I have a pretty long history of being right about most things concerning UNT athletics and you know what........they are the ones that count in my book--not a bunch of upstarts who think Bottom 25 athletics was just hunky-dory fine for North Texas.

I don't think Coach Mac will buy into Bottom 25 as his cup of tea, either. And I hope all the ancillary staff types in the athletic department (if you can count each & every staff member of their small army) will get out of their own long time mode and attitude of "the bottom rung of FBS is just fine" because that attitude seems to have been quite contagious in Denton. How would one know? Just read this board for about the last 10 years and some of its posts, that's how.

Moving on...(but don't forget to give me those red number because I'm sure I've infuriated others with another dose of reality, one who doesn't buy into the acceptance of a Bottom 25 athletic program and just how it is from the perspective of one whose seen it all in Denton and North Texas since 1973--pre-Ice Age. Note: UNT did deliver the dinosaur market in DFW until they all started getting a bit frigid and then quite stiff as in rigor mortis stiff).

GMG!

Edited December 16, 2010 by PlummMeanGreen