Insane Number Of Bowl Games

[Mean Green Matt]

I am pretty sure that any one of those meaningless bowl games would have meant a hell of a lot to us if we had made one. I would have even taken an invite to the Beef O' Brady bowl in a millisecond.

[UNTflyer]

Any system will purposefully exclude the worse teams. Otherwise, we are left with 60 first-round playoff games, and twice as many rounds as March Madness.

Seriously, why should a team who has four regular season losses be allowed into the playoffs, and a one-loss team be excluded, on the sole virtue of having won or not won their conferences?

It's simple- win your conference and you are in. The number of losses should not matter. There may be years that a conference is really good and the champion loses 2, 3, or even 4 games.

[FloMoGrad]

I am pretty sure that any one of those meaningless bowl games would have meant a hell of a lot to us if we had made one. I would have even taken an invite to the Beef O' Brady bowl in a millisecond.

As someone new to Beef OBrady's territory, I'm on board... Foods good, service is dependable, wife and I love Beef O'Brady's down here in FL...

You hit the nail on the head, no bowl game is meaningless and I will be ecstatic when we make our first bowl game in nearly 7 yrs next year, regardless of who, when or where we play.

[SCREAMING EAGLE-66]

----By meaningless games I meant to determine a national champion or even top 10 rating.... not meaningless to fans... As I originally stated ..have a playoff with 3-4 rounds max and those not making playoffs going to Holidays Bowls for their fans and perhaps to reward their players. That is pretty much what happens now... most Bowls do nothing to decide a top 10 team ... just no true playoff system exists now... It is unlikely anyone ranked below 12th or so could win the national championship in a playoff system anyway. Any undefeated or one loss SunBelt team would likely be selected for a playoff berth... Both TCU and Boise were in the top 10 and I believe a Belt team would be too and would be selected for a playoff if it had done that well and included a couple of rather good non-conf games on their schedule..

[Mean Green 93-98]

It's simple- win your conference and you are in. The number of losses should not matter. There may be years that a conference is really good and the champion loses 2, 3, or even 4 games.

Or there can be years a conference is really bad and its winner loses 6.

Seriously, if you are going to pitch a playoff to the big conferences, you've got to think realistically. If we were talking about a playoff with 64 berths (which the Dance has, CMJ), then I think you could sell every conference winner getting a berth. But folks, it ain't gonna happen with 16 berths, optimistically speaking.

How do you tell the SEC and Big 10 commissioners that a 6-6 Sun Belt team has more right to a berth in a playoff than a one-loss SEC team? Trying to push a playoff weighed that heavily in favor of the weaker conferences is a certain way to ensure we never get a playoff in 1-A football.

[forevereagle]

Or there can be years a conference is really bad and its winner loses 6.

Seriously, if you are going to pitch a playoff to the big conferences, you've got to think realistically. If we were talking about a playoff with 64 berths (which the Dance has, CMJ), then I think you could sell every conference winner getting a berth. But folks, it ain't gonna happen with 16 berths, optimistically speaking.

How do you tell the SEC and Big 10 commissioners that a 6-6 Sun Belt team has more right to a berth in a playoff than a one-loss SEC team? Trying to push a playoff weighed that heavily in favor of the weaker conferences is a certain way to ensure we never get a playoff in 1-A football.

Then we don't need one. You don't encourage parity by discouraging it. If it is going to be a better system, then it needs to be FAIR. If a team wants to get a guaranteed shot, win your conference. Nothing complicated.

[CMJ]

Or there can be years a conference is really bad and its winner loses 6.

Seriously, if you are going to pitch a playoff to the big conferences, you've got to think realistically. If we were talking about a playoff with 64 berths (which the Dance has, CMJ), then I think you could sell every conference winner getting a berth. But folks, it ain't gonna happen with 16 berths, optimistically speaking.

How do you tell the SEC and Big 10 commissioners that a 6-6 Sun Belt team has more right to a berth in a playoff than a one-loss SEC team? Trying to push a playoff weighed that heavily in favor of the weaker conferences is a certain way to ensure we never get a playoff in 1-A football.

The Big Dance didn't use to have 68(I know how many spots are there thank you) spots you know. For years, up until the mid 70's or so, you had to win your league to get in. And there would be tons of "smaller" schools in there with the "big" ones. UCLA played schools like San Francisco, Utah State, Long Beach State, and Santa Clara during that 10 titles in 12 years they had.

[oldguystudent]

I don't follow the NFL, but lets assume for the sake of argument that year after year, top to bottom, the NFC East is light years ahead of the NFC West. Should the West division champion, at 9-7, then be denied a spot in the playoffs because the East has three teams at 11-5 or better? If so, then there should only be one division of 32 teams in the entire NFL with the top 2 playing in the Super Bowl, and one giant mega-conference of 120 teams in college with God knows who playing for whatever.

[Mean Green 93-98]

The Big Dance didn't use to have 68(I know how many spots are there thank you) spots you know. For years, up until the mid 70's or so, you had to win your league to get in. And there would be tons of "smaller" schools in there with the "big" ones. UCLA played schools like San Francisco, Utah State, Long Beach State, and Santa Clara during that 10 titles in 12 years they had.

My point was not to inform you how many berths the Dance has. My point was to say that a 16 (at best) berth playoff cannot be expected to be constructed identically to a 64 berth playoff.

[forevereagle]

My point was not to inform you how many berths the Dance has. My point was to say that a 16 (at best) berth playoff cannot be expected to be constructed identically to a 64 berth playoff.

Yes, but that accommodates 346 teams in 32 conferences. This would accommodate 120 teams in 11 conferences. It doesn't need to be the same, but meet the needs of the structure that exists.

[CMJ]

My point was not to inform you how many berths the Dance has. My point was to say that a 16 (at best) berth playoff cannot be expected to be constructed identically to a 64 berth playoff.

And mine was back in the day the leagues Pac-10 only got 1 berth to the Dance -- and they let all league champs in.

[Mean Green 93-98]

I don't follow the NFL, but lets assume for the sake of argument that year after year, top to bottom, the NFC East is light years ahead of the NFC West. Should the West division champion, at 9-7, then be denied a spot in the playoffs because the East has three teams at 11-5 or better? If so, then there should only be one division of 32 teams in the entire NFL with the top 2 playing in the Super Bowl, and one giant mega-conference of 120 teams in college with God knows who playing for whatever.

There's a little more parity in the NFL than in NCAA 1-A football.

Again, none of you seem to be thinking within reality. A playoff structure that would allow a 6-6 FIU team above Ohio State, Stanford, and Michigan State, all at 11-1, simply is not going to happen.

Most of the playoff arrangements being bandied about right now would not allow anyone from the Sun Belt a chance at a playoff berth, even if a team were to go undefeated.

How much sway does the Sun Belt have when it calls for a playoff and suggests how it should be done? Almost none. The SEC, Big 10, etc. hold almost all the power. So the Belt (or whomever would speak out in the Belt's behalf) has to show a fair arrangement within a 16-berth structure that would at least allow the Belt a chance. The people in power will never--and I mean, never--go for a structure that would put a 6-6 Sun Belt team into the playoff above a 1-loss team from a power conference.

[oldguystudent]

There's a little more parity in the NFL than in NCAA 1-A football.

Again, none of you seem to be thinking within reality. A playoff structure that would allow a 6-6 FIU team above Ohio State, Stanford, and Michigan State, all at 11-1, simply is not going to happen.

Most of the playoff arrangements being bandied about right now would not allow anyone from the Sun Belt a chance at a playoff berth, even if a team were to go undefeated.

How much sway does the Sun Belt have when it calls for a playoff and suggests how it should be done? Almost none. The SEC, Big 10, etc. hold almost all the power. So the Belt (or whomever would speak out in the Belt's behalf) has to show a fair arrangement within a 16-berth structure that would at least allow the Belt a chance. The people in power will never--and I mean, never--go for a structure that would put a 6-6 Sun Belt team into the playoff above a 1-loss team from a power conference.

And by this argument, which is not far from current reality, conferences like the Sun Belt and MAC have no business calling themselves FBS conferences.

[untjim1995]

The bowl games are neat because of the history and, sometimes, they even provide a great matchup between teams that normally would never play each other. It gives the teams something to enjoy, the fans an opportunity to plan ahead to go to the game, and they give the university a nice advertisement. That all said, a playoff would normally be ideal, except that there is zero chance that the NCAA will force one, and if by chance they did, the AQ schools would probably drop from the NCAA together and form their own coalition of 60-70 schools, which would then drop us from any bowl system AND a big basketball tournament every year. You can say, well Congress would step in, but those big schools have lots of lawmakers that fill the state and national legislatures, along with the TV networks and their advertisers that would also back those big schools, too. I hate it and I wish it was different, but I don't think I will hold my breath waiting for it change for the better. As a matter of fact, I expect it to change for the worse over the course of the next 5-10 years for non-AQ leagues and schools.

[forevereagle]

There's a little more parity in the NFL than in NCAA 1-A football.

The Detroit Lions disagree.

Again, none of you seem to be thinking within reality. A playoff structure that would allow a 6-6 FIU team above Ohio State, Stanford, and Michigan State, all at 11-1, simply is not going to happen.

If they won their conference, they would have nothing to complain about.

Most of the playoff arrangements being bandied about right now would not allow anyone from the Sun Belt a chance at a playoff berth, even if a team were to go undefeated.

How much sway does the Sun Belt have when it calls for a playoff and suggests how it should be done? Almost none. The SEC, Big 10, etc. hold almost all the power. So the Belt (or whomever would speak out in the Belt's behalf) has to show a fair arrangement within a 16-berth structure that would at least allow the Belt a chance. The people in power will never--and I mean, never--go for a structure that would put a 6-6 Sun Belt team into the playoff above a 1-loss team from a power conference.

And I will say again, if we are just going to get a different kind of skew to the AQs, then we shouldn't even bother.

[untjim1995]

And by this argument, which is not far from current reality, conferences like the Sun Belt and MAC have no business calling themselves FBS conferences.

I think that most AQ BCS schools look at these two conferences that way--that they are really not true FBS conferences. The fear is that the AQ schools will eventually do something about it again, just like they got the NCAA to do back in 1981 with the i-aa fiasco.

[Denia Park Pedro]

If you had a 20 team playoff like 1-AA does now and used the 11 conference champs and filled in with the BCS rankings the best team left out would, I believe, be A&M.

I think that would be totally fair, avoid a chance of a one loss team being left out in favor of a 6-6 champ, and let everyone know at the start of the season what they have to do to be the national champs.

[Dr. Seuss]

So if next year, UNT goes to whatever crappy bowl is up in Detroit, you won't watch it? That's about the most meaningless bowl game that comes to mind without looking at the list.

As it is, even the New Orleans bowl is kinda' bunk to me. The Sunbelt champion against some other conference's third/fourth place team? Is that how things really match up?

There are two factors keeping us from a playoff:

1) You can pry the power and the money and the monopoly out of the AQ's cold, dead hands.

2) How do you compensate the now defunct 25-30 bowl games that were once profitable for the entities hosting them? (although certainly not necessarily profitable for the schools playing in them)

Yeah, the NCAA is a monopoly but all sports are. Even though the AQ conferences receives money, they also disperse it pretty evenly within the conference. NCAA is a buisness and maximize their profits, just like any other sport and their going to look at the best interest of their top clients (schools). Who ever brings in the most money will be treated the best. I know we dont want to hear it but its true. Look at Baseball, why do you think they have a luxury tax? if the teams that want to buy all the players, then they will have to pay the tax leads right back into the MLB

If NT won the belt and went to a 16 game playoff. We would play against a number 1 or 2 team. Who really likes going to those?? I went to the Tourney in OKC last year, I had a good time but I knew it was a slim chance of winning. If we went to a bowl game where we have a legitimate shot of winning. I would rather go to that and watch a victory, then watch my team get blown out. Its all about competitive balance, in which the NCAA does correctly. What about the teams in the SEC who finishes 3rd and clearly had a tougher schedule, is he just chopped liver??

I think the AQ schools should have first crack at the national championship. If a Non-AQ school is getting better liek TCU, then change conferences to one that is. Until you play against the level of talent week after week that the AQ conferense has, its hard not to agree. From what I have read the more competitive balances conferences are from the AQ's

The only ones really losing money are the Non-AQ schools in bowl games. Ive read that they receive 10%(9 Mill) of the total profit from the bowl games. finally then split up between the confereces, U Everyone else is gaining money

Edited December 9, 2010 by Dr. Seuss

[McKinneyMiner]

I am going to jump up on my bowl game soapbox...

Clear a path people...!!

I used to feel (a few years ago) that the number of bowl games was silly and, frankly, ridiculous...

But then a funny thing happened...

In 2004 the only two teams I really care about in college football, UTEP and UNT, BOTH got invited to bowl games...

UNT was ending a three year run of New Orleans Bowl appearances and UTEP was going to a bowl for the first time since 2000...

And it was then that I realized that the ONLY thing these teams have to play for are conference championships and bowl games... PERIOD...

As it is currently structured, neither UNT nor UTEP will ever sniff anything resembling a National Championship, or even a CHANCE to compete for one... No matter what they do in the regular season...

If the NCAA wants to have a 16 team playoff where EVERY conference champion is an automatic invite then I am all for it... That means the champions of the WAC, Sun Belt, Conference USA and MAC as well as the AQ's...

And if the NCAA decides that those conferences shouldn't get automatic bids, then they should just simply revoke the FBS status of the schools in those conferences because they are royally screwing them anyway and wasting their time and their fans' time...

At no level of competition for anything that I can think of is there a system that tells a participant that they will pay as much, work as hard and abide by all the same regulations and standards as all the other participants but at the end of the season they have no chance to compete for an overall championship while some of the other participants (hand chosen) will...

It's asinine...

My dream (far-fetched I know) is that the non-AQ's will pull out of the FBS and make a division of their own where they play each other and play for a championship at the end...

Make the AQ's play nothing but each other and see how well they like it...

No soft OOC schedules for them... Nothing but monsters and well funded programs...

It would be a fan's dream, but a university's nightmare...

Imagine that September 5 loss meaning your season was basically over... And every September 5 and all dates after that you were going to have to play a team of reasoble quality...

A pipe dream, I know...

At any rate, in the system in which we currently live the bowls are the only reward we have for the student athletes at the smaller schools...

To them being "bowl eligible" actually means something...

So let them begin...

I plan on watching every last single one of them as much as I can...

And attending 2 in person...

[Yellow Snow]

You counted wrong, there are 35 bowls with 70 teams getting bids.

I disagree with an 8 team playoff. If there is going to be a playoff, then every conference should get a shot which would require a 16 team playoff. Seed them however makes sense, but 8 just allows the AQs to continue to keep everyone else out.

Just going to play devil's advocate...

Point number 1: The AQ's are actually giving non AQ conference schools opportunities that wouldn't(and didn't) exist prior to the BCS. They could go back to the old system of bowls... How many MWC/WAC/Conf-USA, etc. teams would play in the Fiesta, Sugar, Orange, or Rose bowls under the old system? None The AQ's agreed to the BCS system allowing non-AQ conferences slots in BCS bowls they would otherwise not have - and didn't HAVE to do it. What bowl does TCU go to prior to the BCS? I don't know, but i DO know it wouldn't be the Rose Bowl.

Point number 2: In regards to a playoff... A playoff in division 1A will not work. No matter how rabid a team's fans are, they will not travel three weeks in a row to three different cities - or even to the same city three times. There wouldn't be anybody at these games. Play them on the higher seeded teams home field and totally eliminate the bowls? I don't know...

Just my 2 cents...

[CMJ]

Just going to play devil's advocate...

Point number 1: The AQ's are actually giving non AQ conference schools opportunities that wouldn't(and didn't) exist prior to the BCS. They could go back to the old system of bowls... How many MWC/WAC/Conf-USA, etc. teams would play in the Fiesta, Sugar, Orange, or Rose bowls under the old system? None The AQ's agreed to the BCS system allowing non-AQ conferences slots in BCS bowls they would otherwise not have - and didn't HAVE to do it. What bowl does TCU go to prior to the BCS? I don't know, but i DO know it wouldn't be the Rose Bowl.

Point number 2: In regards to a playoff... A playoff in division 1A will not work. No matter how rabid a team's fans are, they will not travel three weeks in a row to three different cities - or even to the same city three times. There wouldn't be anybody at these games. Play them on the higher seeded teams home field and totally eliminate the bowls? I don't know...

Just my 2 cents...

Well, under the old bowl system, most Bowls had open spots to select teams. That's one reason why there were so many powerful independents (Notre Dame, Penn State, Miami, Florida State, etc). Things are so different than when I was a kid. Even the Bowl Alliance (which begat the Bowl Coalition, which begat the BCS) only dates back to around 1992 or so.

So...anyways...a TCU or Boise State might still have ended up in a very nice Bowl game with the old Bowl sytem (but changed out to put the Big 12 Champ in the Fiesta instead of the Orange). Not the Rose Bowl obviously, but maybe any of the other other three. Actually the Fiesta always selected TWO at large until the Cotton fell out of favor with the breakup of the SWC.

As to the 2nd point -- I think the first 2 rounds would be played on campus. Then maybe the semis and finals (or just the Finals) played at a nuetral field.

[TheTastyGreek]

88 Fiesta Bowl had an independent West Virginia in after an undefeated season, playing an unofficial national championship game against Notre Dame.

I remember that one because they had a bunch of players sing the West Virginia fight song as part of the game presentation, and I still remember a few lines from it.

[UNTflyer]

Or there can be years a conference is really bad and its winner loses 6.

Seriously, if you are going to pitch a playoff to the big conferences, you've got to think realistically. If we were talking about a playoff with 64 berths (which the Dance has, CMJ), then I think you could sell every conference winner getting a berth. But folks, it ain't gonna happen with 16 berths, optimistically speaking.

How do you tell the SEC and Big 10 commissioners that a 6-6 Sun Belt team has more right to a berth in a playoff than a one-loss SEC team? Trying to push a playoff weighed that heavily in favor of the weaker conferences is a certain way to ensure we never get a playoff in 1-A football.

I dont think anyone is talking about 64 teams in the playoffs, but hey... there have been some crazy NFL seasons when 8-8 teams made it to the playoffs with an 11-5 team sitting at home (2008). That's the way football go.

And the conference commissioners are never going to agree to a playoff anyway - this will have to come from the NCAA, and the only way that happens is if Congress threatens to revoke their tax exempt status and decalre the BCS an illegal cartel.

[ParksAndRecRick]

No Bowl Game would be meanginless to me if the Mean Green were one of the participants. Don't watch them then! Fans, Alums, and Players have one more game to have fun and create memories. Good for every one of them!